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Celek in the Mike Vick Era (1 Viewer)

R

rawdog

Footballguy
How do we feel about him now w/o Mcnabb or Kolb?

Positives:

1) Eagles offense is overall more potent, so more red zone opportunities for their tallest receiving threat

2) Vick use to have a good rapport w/ Alge Crumpler

Negatives:

1) Vick freelances a lot and will he look for Celek as much when he's out of the pocket and plays are breaking down

2) Vick not as good a pure passer as Mcnabb or Kolb

 
I was hoping the Vick to Algae connection would soon become the Vick to Celek connection but not much happening there as far as the GB and Lions games!!! It's going to be a wait and see issue...just like most other issues, I guess...would love to hear some more input on this....

 
I just don't see a lot of redzone action moving forward.

Last year, Kolb was QB....doesn't appear to be much of a runner........Westbrook was completely broken by then......and it didn't look like they trusted McCoy to punch it in. I think it may have been the 'perfect storm' and Celek got most of the redzone love.

Now......McCoy can be trusted more.............Vick can run it in at any time..........and Maclin gets some looks in the redzone too.

I definitely see a drop in TD's and this is all coming from a Celek owner. I hope I am wrong and he surpasses the GREAT JERMICHAEL FINLEY as the next great TE!

 
You mean Celek in the 'turnstiles at starting o-line positions" era. He is what he was before Kolb got concussed, a blocker.

 
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Any Eagles fans have any more insight in this. To be honest while watch the Eagles game I was more watching vick, and the lions etc. So I kind of missed focusing on celek to see what's going on. Is he being held in more to block, etc...

 
Had him in my non-TE mandatory league. Thought he could possible get low end WR2 production. Don't see it. Cut him this week.

 
Hipple said:
Any Eagles fans have any more insight in this. To be honest while watch the Eagles game I was more watching vick, and the lions etc. So I kind of missed focusing on celek to see what's going on. Is he being held in more to block, etc...
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see my post right above yours. The O-Line is hurt and they are going to keep him in to block a ton. They have enough weapons that they frankly don't need another one out there catching balls, rather protecting their QB.
 
ImTheScientist said:
Why would anyone love DJax w/ Vick?See Roddy White.
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I can't remember what happened this morning, but didn't:- The Falcons have completely different coaches and coordinators and ran a different style offense.- White was very young, unestablished, and was not an every down player (had 100 fewer targets than last year).- Falcons receivers seemed to frequently have the dropsies.- The team ran more than passed, especially with Vick used as a runner by design (especially compared to the Eagles).I'm not saying Vick was Joe Montan, but at times he played well and put the ball where guys could catch it.
 
David Yudkin said:
ImTheScientist said:
Why would anyone love DJax w/ Vick?See Roddy White.
Click to expand...
I can't remember what happened this morning, but didn't:- The Falcons have completely different coaches and coordinators and ran a different style offense.- White was very young, unestablished, and was not an every down player (had 100 fewer targets than last year).- Falcons receivers seemed to frequently have the dropsies.- The team ran more than passed, especially with Vick used as a runner by design (especially compared to the Eagles).I'm not saying Vick was Joe Montan, but at times he played well and put the ball where guys could catch it.
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Are you playing devils advocate or do you seriously believe this helps DJax more than what he was ranked at his preseason rankings? Will he improve on his numbers from last year? What numbers do you think Djax ends with?
 
No love for Mr. Redzone Jeremy Maclin?

1.5 games with Vick and 2 TD's. 3 for 3 this weekend against Jacksonville? I would say Yes

 
ImTheScientist said:
unckeyherb said:
ImTheScientist said:
Why would anyone love DJax w/ Vick?See Roddy White.
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Look at game one with kolb. Look at game two with vick. That's why.
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So you watch 1.5 games of Vick and ignore the rest of his career? Do you know what Vicks history has been w/ WR's? Oh, maybe jail turned him into an awesome passer...personally I doubt it.
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No, but perhaps he pas patience now he never had earlier in his career. Not that he can afford to be patient in that backfield... But still, as a passer he may be less run first now than ever previously in his career.
 
running qb's are always good for rb's cause the lb's cant plug the holes anymore since htey have to be so worried about the qb simply peeling to teh outside

 
ImTheScientist said:
unckeyherb said:
ImTheScientist said:
Why would anyone love DJax w/ Vick?See Roddy White.
Click to expand...
Look at game one with kolb. Look at game two with vick. That's why.
Click to expand...
So you watch 1.5 games of Vick and ignore the rest of his career? Do you know what Vicks history has been w/ WR's? Oh, maybe jail turned him into an awesome passer...personally I doubt it.
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No, but I took your question to be more of a question of Vick vs. Kolb than Vick vs. 2004 Vick. Before the season started I was very down on Desean this year with Kolb at the helm. I thought, and have made bets, that Maclin would perform better than Djax (might still happen honestly). In week one, I don't think anyone told Kolb that he was, in fact allowed to throw to Desean, who ended the day with only 30ish yards IIRC. Flash forward to week two. Desean ripped off a huge TD run en route to 130-140 yards receiving. My eyes tell me that this is going to help DJax a lot more than it will hurt him.
 
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ImTheScientist said:
David Yudkin said:
ImTheScientist said:
Why would anyone love DJax w/ Vick?See Roddy White.
Click to expand...
I can't remember what happened this morning, but didn't:- The Falcons have completely different coaches and coordinators and ran a different style offense.- White was very young, unestablished, and was not an every down player (had 100 fewer targets than last year).- Falcons receivers seemed to frequently have the dropsies.- The team ran more than passed, especially with Vick used as a runner by design (especially compared to the Eagles).I'm not saying Vick was Joe Montan, but at times he played well and put the ball where guys could catch it.
Click to expand...
Are you playing devils advocate or do you seriously believe this helps DJax more than what he was ranked at his preseason rankings? Will he improve on his numbers from last year? What numbers do you think Djax ends with?
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What you are asking is a little different than what I had to say about Vick in ATL. I thought DJax's numbers were going to go down this year and that had nothing to do with Vick. Different starting QB, very high ypc, a lot of TD for a relativley low amount of touches. Not a major drop off, but a slight one nonetheless.It's too soon to tell if Vick and the offense just clicked and it will be magically the whole season. I'm inclined to think things won't stay rosy every week, especially once teams get a chance to look at film and better game plan.If the options were DJax with a confused Kolb or DJax with an inspired and productive Vick, I would think his numbers with Vick would be better. Through 2 games, Jackson is actually on pace to do better than last season, but for now his ranking is lower.He didn't catch a pass with Kolb in the first game and has had 8 catches, 165 yards, and a TD in 6 quarters since. If I had to guess, he'll probably fall in the Top 5-10 range at the end of the year, but don't ask me to figure who ranks where by comparison at this point.
 
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ImTheScientist said:
David Yudkin said:
ImTheScientist said:
Why would anyone love DJax w/ Vick?See Roddy White.
Click to expand...
I can't remember what happened this morning, but didn't:- The Falcons have completely different coaches and coordinators and ran a different style offense.- White was very young, unestablished, and was not an every down player (had 100 fewer targets than last year).- Falcons receivers seemed to frequently have the dropsies.- The team ran more than passed, especially with Vick used as a runner by design (especially compared to the Eagles).I'm not saying Vick was Joe Montan, but at times he played well and put the ball where guys could catch it.
Click to expand...
Are you playing devils advocate or do you seriously believe this helps DJax more than what he was ranked at his preseason rankings? Will he improve on his numbers from last year? What numbers do you think Djax ends with?
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D. Jax was rated lower than he should have been presesaon because people thought the long plays wouldnt continue. With Vick buying time to give D.Jax those extra couple second to get open, there will lots of TD's this year with DJax running all by himself wide open. You got 4 good reasons from Yudkin why D. Jax will be a lot better than Vick and chose to ignore them. Comparing what Vick did with Roddy White(who didnt even start when Vick was there),Brian Finneran, Micheal Jenkins, and an offense focused on the run has nothing to do with today's circumstances in Philly.D.Jax 73 catches, 1175 yards, 11 td's
 
Mystery Achiever said:
domvin said:
Need to add Mccoy
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Colin Cowherd had Peter King on yesterday. Can't remember which one made this point, but said McCoy had such a good game because the defense had to also account for Vick as a runner.
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:hey: see reference VY/CJ but I don't see Vick passing enough to make all 3 - DJax, Maclin and Celek, stud level receivers. I'm just guessing here, but DJax probably has less receptions but bigger plays - if that's possible. Celek less overall.
 
Philadelphia is on pace for 544 passing attempts this year. They've been in the 550-600 range the past 3 seasons.

Vick has had only had one season with 400 attempts in a season (421).

Guess we will have to observe how much they air it out (I'm guessing just as much as ever), which that alone would be a good sign for the receivers and Vick's numbers.

 
ImTheScientist said:
unckeyherb said:
ImTheScientist said:
Why would anyone love DJax w/ Vick?See Roddy White.
Click to expand...
Look at game one with kolb. Look at game two with vick. That's why.
Click to expand...
So you watch 1.5 games of Vick and ignore the rest of his career? Do you know what Vicks history has been w/ WR's? Oh, maybe jail turned him into an awesome passer...personally I doubt it.
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Jail might not have... but Andy Reid might have. Andy is one hell of an offensive coach. Vick has benefitted greatly from this.
 
Mystery Achiever said:
domvin said:
Need to add Mccoy
Click to expand...
Colin Cowherd had Peter King on yesterday. Can't remember which one made this point, but said McCoy had such a good game because the defense had to also account for Vick as a runner.
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While I love Dunn as a player and seems to be a great person, he and Duckett benefitted from teams having to account for Vick in ATL and literally extended Dunn's high output (at that point in his career) and flat-out made Duckett's career. McCoy is going to get third-down back yardage on virtually every down.
 
Is it time to dump this guy? I'm getting to that point. He was such a monster last year, and is just about absent from the offense this year. 15 target? That's like one game for Tony Moeaki.

Oh and can we get all 5-6 celek thread merged?

 
Celek is fine, and will produce. teams have been blitzing a lot, to get to Vick. to counter that blitz, the Eagles have been max protecting a lot.

do not panic yet, because I think he will get his fair share of opportunities in the red zone moving forward. he is not a 13 td guy, or an Antonio Gates level tight end. look at his game logs last year, and you see he did not score in 8 games, and he had 4 or less receptions in 10 games.

when you draft a guy like Celek, you pretty much are going to have to accept that he has down weeks, and the only way to get his good weeks, is to start him every week.

 
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Celek is on my bench. I have Keller to back him up but I just picked up Moeaki too. I am surprised to see Vick throwing the ball so well. Unfortunately, with his new confidence, he's tossing the long ball to his WR's pretty well. Or he's just running it in himself.

 
westbrook36 said:
Celek is fine, and will produce. teams have been blitzing a lot, to get to Vick. to counter that blitz, the Eagles have been max protecting a lot.do not panic yet, because I think he will get his fair share of opportunities in the red zone moving forward. he is not a 13 td guy, or an Antonio Gates level tight end. look at his game logs last year, and you see he did not score in 8 games, and he had 4 or less receptions in 10 games.when you draft a guy like Celek, you pretty much are going to have to accept that he has down weeks, and the only way to get his good weeks, is to start him every week.
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But last year they used Celek as a WR/TE. THis year they seem to be using him as a blocking TE who goes out on play action. Or maybe it's just perception. Does anyone have a breakdown of blocking vs route running plays?
 
Dropped him in a 10-team PPR.

He just isn't doing anything worth taking up a roster spot in that small of a league.

 
If I was a Celek owner, I wouldn't drop him, but I'd start looking for a replacement (i.e. Moeiaki).

Vick's reads seem to be to look down field for Jackson, look to the middle for Maclin, and then by the time he gets to Celek, who is a check down on many plays, he's more inclined to just take off at that point.

I expect more of the same.

Part of the reason Crumpler was effective was Vick didn't have the weapons he has now so I imagine Crumpler was always a first or second look.

Celek is at least a third read on most plays. By the time Vick gets to that point, he's going to just pull it down and take off.

I think you're going to see much of the same. The only thing I'd say we haven't really seen yet is who's going to get targets in the red zone, because the Eagles have been scoring so many long TDs. It looks to me like Vick locks in on Maclin in the red zone, but the sample size is small.

 
I'd dump him if there is any other options. It seems like Philly has changed the way they use Celek with Vick. Vick's strengths just don't suit getting the ball to short to intermediate passes to the tight end.

 
i dont think celek is startable given what is out there. like, i would def start carlson, olsen, shockey, moeaki over him. id put celek in the same boat as owen daniels. proly worth holding onto if you can afford the roster spot in case he turns it around.

 
Like I said before this last game. Celek is a blocker, not the receiving threat he was last year. Even when he goes out it's short stuff and Vick can probably do more with running than he can with dumping it to Celek. Career low in receptions and yardage this year for Celek.

On a side note, Desean and Maclin look like this whole Vick thing has helped their performances. :lmao:

 
I dumped him for Keller this week. I agree that Vick has had success with Crumpler in the past, but new-age Vick seems more apt to go long than check down. Plus, I definately think Celek has been used way more as a blocker.

 
unckeyherb said:
westbrook36 said:
Team ROFLCOPTERS said:
I'd dump him if there is any other options. It seems like Philly has changed the way they use Celek with Vick. Vick's strengths just don't suit getting the ball to short to intermediate passes to the tight end.
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ever heard of alge crumpler?
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he was more of a wr/te combo. definitely not a te in the same vein as celek.
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celek lead the eagles in receptions last year, and is known as a receiving tight end. he is a mediocre at best blocker. algre crumpler was a much better blocker than celek is.
 
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westbrook36 said:
unckeyherb said:
westbrook36 said:
Team ROFLCOPTERS said:
I'd dump him if there is any other options. It seems like Philly has changed the way they use Celek with Vick. Vick's strengths just don't suit getting the ball to short to intermediate passes to the tight end.
Click to expand...
ever heard of alge crumpler?
Click to expand...
he was more of a wr/te combo. definitely not a te in the same vein as celek.
Click to expand...
celek lead the eagles in receptions last year, and is known as a receiving tight end. he is a mediocre at best blocker. algre crumpler was a much better blocker than celek is.
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Correct, on most counts. Celek lead the team in receptions with Donovan as QB, McCoy in his first year, Maclin in his first year and Desean racking up 100's of yards on 3 receptions. Different offense lead by a different person this year. Crumpler WAS a better blocker than Celek. He was also a better receiver. In fact Crumpler was a better TE all around than Celek, by a wide margin. The Oline that they are trotting out there needs help. Celek will be blocking (has been a lot already). The philosphy of this offense when passing will be: Vick to look to Desean, look to Maclin, look to Cel.aa forget it, I'll run it myself. Rinse. repeat.
 
unckeyherb said:
The philosphy of this offense when passing will be: Vick to look to Desean, look to Maclin, look to Cel.aa forget it, I'll run it myself. Rinse. repeat.
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Actually, I think it will be more:* Look for either Desean or Maclin depending on the play* Look for McCoy in the flat* Run the ball
 
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unckeyherb said:
Like I said before this last game. Celek is a blocker, not the receiving threat he was last year. Even when he goes out it's short stuff and Vick can probably do more with running than he can with dumping it to Celek. Career low in receptions and yardage this year for Celek.

On a side note, Desean and Maclin look like this whole Vick thing has helped their performances. :unsure:
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He is about 1-2 weeks away for passing his career low of16/178/1

Then a few weeks after that he should pass his 2nd career low of

27/318/1

Then he had last year

This year should be be as good as last year, nor should it be as bad as any other of his 2 previous years.

 
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unckeyherb said:
westbrook36 said:
unckeyherb said:
westbrook36 said:
Team ROFLCOPTERS said:
I'd dump him if there is any other options. It seems like Philly has changed the way they use Celek with Vick. Vick's strengths just don't suit getting the ball to short to intermediate passes to the tight end.
Click to expand...
ever heard of alge crumpler?
Click to expand...
he was more of a wr/te combo. definitely not a te in the same vein as celek.
Click to expand...
celek lead the eagles in receptions last year, and is known as a receiving tight end. he is a mediocre at best blocker. algre crumpler was a much better blocker than celek is.
Click to expand...
Correct, on most counts. Celek lead the team in receptions with Donovan as QB, McCoy in his first year, Maclin in his first year and Desean racking up 100's of yards on 3 receptions. Different offense lead by a different person this year. Crumpler WAS a better blocker than Celek. He was also a better receiver. In fact Crumpler was a better TE all around than Celek, by a wide margin. The Oline that they are trotting out there needs help. Celek will be blocking (has been a lot already). The philosphy of this offense when passing will be: Vick to look to Desean, look to Maclin, look to Cel.aa forget it, I'll run it myself. Rinse. repeat.
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i think it's just the way teams have played the eagles so far. when it comes to defending vick, the lions/jaguars did not have much tape to go on, so they i'm sure they went back to what vick did in atlanta. when they remembered the "book" on vick from then, one of the things in that book was that vick loves to throw to the tight end. so as a def. coordinator, wouldn't you naturally make a defensive focus be "take away the tight end"?you pointed out that celek is blocking more, and that is probably because teams are blitzing vick a lot. during the broadcast fox showed clips of gunther cunningham blitzing vick 50 something straight times in a 56-10 blowout falcons loss to the chiefs. that is also part of the old "vick book". you could blitz vick constantly, and he would be unable to beat it.now that vick is showing that he is burning these blitzes, and throwing to wrs downfield(not just relying on easy throws to a tight end), other teams will have to adjust. they will have to account for maclin/jackson more. they will have to blitz less, because vick is making them pay for blitzing. once this adjustment happens, celek will get more involved over the middle, and expect avant to get more involved as well.
 
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