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2007 HOF finalists announced (1 Viewer)

R

RonMexico

Footballguy
Paul Tagliabue, Thurman Thomas, Michael Irvin, and Bruce Matthews are among the 17 finalists that will be considered for election to the Pro Football Hall of Fame when the Hall's Board of Selectors meets in Miami, Florida on Saturday, February 3, 2007.

Joining these four finalists, are 11 other modern-era players and two players nominated earlier by the Hall of Fame's Senior Committee. The Senior Committee nominees, announced in August 2006, are former Cleveland Browns guard Gene Hickerson and Detroit Lions tight end Charlie Sanders. The other modern-era player finalists include defensive ends Fred Dean and Richard Dent; guards Russ Grimm and Bob Kuechenberg; punter Ray Guy; wide receivers Art Monk and Andre Reed; linebackers Derrick Thomas and Andre Tippett; cornerback Roger Wehrli; and tackle Gary Zimmerman.

To be elected, a finalist must receive a minimum positive vote of 80 percent.

Listed alphabetically, the 17 finalists with their positions, teams, and years active follow:

Fred Dean - Defensive End - 1975-1981 San Diego Chargers, 1981-1985 San Francisco 49ers

Richard Dent - Defensive End - 1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles

Russ Grimm - Guard - 1981-1991 Washington Redskins

Ray Guy - Punter - 1973-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders

Gene Hickerson - Guard - 1958-1973 Cleveland Browns

Michael Irvin - Wide Receiver - 1988-1999 Dallas Cowboys

Bob Kuechenberg - Guard - 1970-1984 Miami Dolphins

Bruce Matthews - Guard, Tackle, Center - 1983-2001 Houston Oilers/Tennessee Oilers/Titans

Art Monk - Wide Receiver - 1980-1993 Washington Redskins, 1994 New York Jets, 1995 Philadelphia Eagles

Andre Reed - Wide Receiver - 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins

Charlie Sanders - Tight End - 1968-1977 Detroit Lions

Paul Tagliabue - NFL Commissioner - 1989-2006

Derrick Thomas - Linebacker - 1989-1999 Kansas City Chiefs

Thurman Thomas - Running Back - 1988-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Miami Dolphins

Andre Tippett - Linebacker - 1982-1993 New England Patriots

Roger Wehrli - Cornerback - 1969-1982 St. Louis Cardinals

Gary Zimmerman - Tackle - 1986-1992 Minnesota Vikings, 1993-1997 Denver Broncos

Dent, Grimm, Guy, Hickerson, Irvin, Kuechenberg, Monk, Derrick Thomas, Thurman Thomas, Wehrli, and Zimmerman have all been finalists in previous years.

The Board of Selectors will meet in Miami, Florida, on Saturday, February 3, 2007, to elect the Hall of Fame Class of 2007.

Enshrinement of the Class of 2007 will take place at the Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton, on the weekend of August 4-5, 2007.

 
Your 2007 Class will come from here...with Guy, Irvin, Thomas and Thomas being on the bubble

Ray Guy - Punter - 1973-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders

Michael Irvin - Wide Receiver - 1988-1999 Dallas Cowboys

Bruce Matthews - Guard, Tackle, Center - 1983-2001 Houston Oilers/Tennessee Oilers/Titans

Paul Tagliabue - NFL Commissioner - 1989-2006

Derrick Thomas - Linebacker - 1989-1999 Kansas City Chiefs

Thurman Thomas - Running Back - 1988-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Miami Dolphins

Gary Zimmerman - Tackle - 1986-1992 Minnesota Vikings, 1993-1997 Denver Broncos

 
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RonMexico said:
Notably absent is Terrell Davis.
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I do not think TD is a HOF. He had 3 good years | Rushing | Receiving |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| 1995 den | 14 | 237 1117 4.7 7 | 49 367 7.5 1 |

| 1996 den | 16 | 345 1538 4.5 13 | 36 310 8.6 2 |

| 1997 den | 15 | 369 1750 4.7 15 | 42 287 6.8 0 |

| 1998 den | 16 | 392 2008 5.1 21 | 25 217 8.7 2 |

| 1999 den | 4 | 67 211 3.1 2 | 3 26 8.7 0 |

| 2000 den | 5 | 78 282 3.6 2 | 2 4 2.0 0 |

| 2001 den | 11 | 167 701 4.2 0 | 12 69 5.8 0 |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| TOTAL | 81 | 1655 7607 4.6 60 | 169 1280 7.6 5 |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/DaviTe00.htm

 
abrecher said:
Were there any 2006 finalists who didn't make this list? (Other than the inductees, of course.)
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Here were last year's finalists . . .Warren Moon Reggie WhiteTroy AikmanThurman ThomasRayfield WrightJohn MaddenDerrick ThomasHarry CarsonL.C. GreenwoodClaude HumphreyRuss GrimmBob KuechenbergGary ZimmermanMichael IrvinArt Monk.
 
Am I the only one who thinks that M.Irvin does not deserve to be in the HOF. I know that he won super bowls, but after looking at his career numbers, they don't really jump out to me.

1 season with 10+ TDs (95)

2 seasons with 90+ receptions (91 & 95)

750 receptions for 11,904 yards and 65 TDs is HOF material???

What am I missing here?

 
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David Yudkin said:
RonMexico said:
Notably absent is Terrell Davis.
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Remember earlier in the year when headlines for articles read something like "Terrell Davis leads class of HOF candidates." And where is he now?
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No kidding. I wish someone would dig up those threads where people were saying he would get elected this year because he was named first by the articles. :confused:I think there were even some staff members involved in that.
 
I hope Tippet makes it. I doubt it, LT really made his play appear ordinary but he was a special player.

 
Rounders said:
Am I the only one who thinks that M.Irvin does not deserve to be in the HOF. I know that he won super bowls, but after looking at his career numbers, they don't really jump out to me.1 season with 10+ TDs (95)2 seasons with 90+ receptions (91 & 95)750 receptions for 11,904 yards and 65 TDs is HOF material???What am I missing here?
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IMO, he's an ok candidate and I would not want to slash my wrists if he made it, but I think his legacy is really built around the Cowyboys success moreso than his own.Looking at his career numbers, he is ranked 20th in receptions, 14th in receiving yards, and 37th in receiving TD. Certainly there are other players on the ballot with better numbers than that.On a per year basis, he ranked Top 10 in receptions 4 times, receiving yards 6 times, and receiving TD 5 times. Those numbers may be better than some of the other guys up for induction. His best year was in 1995, but that was a record breaking year for top tier WR production.Like I said, he's borderline in my book but at times the Cowboys Big 3 of Emmitt, Troy, and Michael seem to be evaluated as one unit.
 
Rounders said:
Am I the only one who thinks that M.Irvin does not deserve to be in the HOF. I know that he won super bowls, but after looking at his career numbers, they don't really jump out to me.1 season with 10+ TDs (95)2 seasons with 90+ receptions (91 & 95)750 receptions for 11,904 yards and 65 TDs is HOF material???What am I missing here?
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I read an article by Peter King (Yeah I know, but he gets a vote)where he would probably vote for Irvin and Monk. Basically WR's have been ignored for a long time and when Stallworth and Swann make it, there is a good case for Monk & Irvin. King especially mentioned Irvins superbowl rings and locker room influence. He was apparently a very vocal team leader who coaches attributed as being a big reason why they won so many Superbowls. That counts.
 
Sidewinder16 said:
fsufan said:
RonMexico said:
Notably absent is Terrell Davis.
Click to expand...
I do not think TD is a HOF. He had 3 good years
Click to expand...
Personally, I'm still undecided as to Terrell's HOF-worthiness, but this is really an understatement of vast proportions. Especially, considering his postseason play and MVP (NFL and Super Bowl) honors.
Click to expand...
To me the one of the criteria’s for the HOF is constant longevity. Every RB on this list played in the NFL for 10+ years with the exception of 4. There are only 2 HOF RBs that played under 10 years. The HOF cannot let all players in that had a few good games/years, it is the best of the best.Pro Football Hall of Fame Top 20 - Leading Lifetime Rushers

(At the Start of the 2005 NFL Season)

Rank Player League Yrs. Att. Yards Avg. TD

1 (1) EMMITT SMITH NFL 15 4,409 18,355 4.2 164

2 (2) Walter Payton * NFL 13 3,838 16,726 4.4 110

3 (3) Barry Sanders * NFL 10 3,062 15,269 5.0 99

4 (11) CURTIS MARTIN NFL 10 3,298 13,366 4.1 85

5 (6) JEROME BETTIS NFL 12 3,369 13,294 3.9 82

6 (4) Eric Dickerson * NFL 11 2,996 13,259 4.4 90

7 (5) Tony Dorsett * NFL 12 2,936 12,739 4.3 77

8 (7) Jim Brown * NFL 9 2,359 12,312 5.2 106

9 (8) Marcus Allen * NFL 16 3,022 12,243 4.1 123

10 (9) Franco Harris * NFL 13 2,949 12,120 4.1 91

11 (10) Thurman Thomas NFL 13 2,877 12,074 4.2 65

12 (14) MARSHALL FAULK NFL 11 2,771 11,987 4.3 100

13 (12) John Riggins * NFL 14 2,916 11,352 3.9 104

14 (13) O.J. Simpson * AFL-NFL 11 2,404 11,236 4.7 61

15 (15) Ricky Watters NFL 10 2,622 10,643 4.1 78

16 (17) EDDIE GEORGE NFL 9 2,865 10,441 3.6 68

17 (16) O.J. Anderson NFL 14 2,562 10,273 4.0 81

18 (18) Joe Perry * AAFC-NFL 16 1,929 9,723 5.0 71

19 (--) COREY DILLON NFL 8 2,210 9,696 4.4 57

20 (19) Earl Campbell * NFL 8 2,187 9,407 4.3 74

http://www.profootballhof.com/history/rele...release_id=1403

 
Rounders said:
Am I the only one who thinks that M.Irvin does not deserve to be in the HOF. I know that he won super bowls, but after looking at his career numbers, they don't really jump out to me.1 season with 10+ TDs (95)2 seasons with 90+ receptions (91 & 95)750 receptions for 11,904 yards and 65 TDs is HOF material???What am I missing here?
Click to expand...
His postseason performances.
 
MarshallRob said:
Rounders said:
Am I the only one who thinks that M.Irvin does not deserve to be in the HOF. I know that he won super bowls, but after looking at his career numbers, they don't really jump out to me.1 season with 10+ TDs (95)2 seasons with 90+ receptions (91 & 95)750 receptions for 11,904 yards and 65 TDs is HOF material???What am I missing here?
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His postseason performances.
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Yeah I guess, but I think putting players like Irvin in the hall just dimishes it's significance. What about his off the field problems? Maybe I'm in the minority but Irvin would not get my vote. Just my :lmao:
 
fsufan said:
Sidewinder16 said:
fsufan said:
RonMexico said:
Notably absent is Terrell Davis.
Click to expand...
I do not think TD is a HOF. He had 3 good years
Click to expand...
Personally, I'm still undecided as to Terrell's HOF-worthiness, but this is really an understatement of vast proportions. Especially, considering his postseason play and MVP (NFL and Super Bowl) honors.
Click to expand...
To me the one of the criteria’s for the HOF is constant longevity. Every RB on this list played in the NFL for 10+ years with the exception of 4. There are only 2 HOF RBs that played under 10 years. The HOF cannot let all players in that had a few good games/years, it is the best of the best.Pro Football Hall of Fame Top 20 - Leading Lifetime Rushers

(At the Start of the 2005 NFL Season)

Rank Player League Yrs. Att. Yards Avg. TD

1 (1) EMMITT SMITH NFL 15 4,409 18,355 4.2 164

2 (2) Walter Payton * NFL 13 3,838 16,726 4.4 110

3 (3) Barry Sanders * NFL 10 3,062 15,269 5.0 99

4 (11) CURTIS MARTIN NFL 10 3,298 13,366 4.1 85

5 (6) JEROME BETTIS NFL 12 3,369 13,294 3.9 82

6 (4) Eric Dickerson * NFL 11 2,996 13,259 4.4 90

7 (5) Tony Dorsett * NFL 12 2,936 12,739 4.3 77

8 (7) Jim Brown * NFL 9 2,359 12,312 5.2 106

9 (8) Marcus Allen * NFL 16 3,022 12,243 4.1 123

10 (9) Franco Harris * NFL 13 2,949 12,120 4.1 91

11 (10) Thurman Thomas NFL 13 2,877 12,074 4.2 65

12 (14) MARSHALL FAULK NFL 11 2,771 11,987 4.3 100

13 (12) John Riggins * NFL 14 2,916 11,352 3.9 104

14 (13) O.J. Simpson * AFL-NFL 11 2,404 11,236 4.7 61

15 (15) Ricky Watters NFL 10 2,622 10,643 4.1 78

16 (17) EDDIE GEORGE NFL 9 2,865 10,441 3.6 68

17 (16) O.J. Anderson NFL 14 2,562 10,273 4.0 81

18 (18) Joe Perry * AAFC-NFL 16 1,929 9,723 5.0 71

19 (--) COREY DILLON NFL 8 2,210 9,696 4.4 57

20 (19) Earl Campbell * NFL 8 2,187 9,407 4.3 74

http://www.profootballhof.com/history/rele...release_id=1403
Click to expand...
There are 24 modern era RBs currently in the HOF. Only 11 are in the top 20 lifetime leading rushers. Davis played in more games than either Doak Walker or Gale Sayers.Being a HOFer is about far more than longevity.

 
fsufan said:
Sidewinder16 said:
fsufan said:
RonMexico said:
Notably absent is Terrell Davis.
Click to expand...
I do not think TD is a HOF. He had 3 good years
Click to expand...
Personally, I'm still undecided as to Terrell's HOF-worthiness, but this is really an understatement of vast proportions. Especially, considering his postseason play and MVP (NFL and Super Bowl) honors.
Click to expand...
To me the one of the criteria’s for the HOF is constant longevity...
Click to expand...
That's fine, but it doesn't change the fact that those three years were more than just "good." They were one great year and two really, really, really good years. He had a fourth year, his rookie year, that I'd call "good."
 
Big :lmao: for Dean being included on the list. He doesn't deserve to make it all the way, but he was a huge sparkplug for the Niners on the '81 D.

As for the List, Ray Guy is always on my list

Dent, Grimm, Irvin, Thurman Thomas, and Zimmerman are my votes. Derrick Thomas just behind.

 
Rounders said:
MarshallRob said:
Rounders said:
Am I the only one who thinks that M.Irvin does not deserve to be in the HOF. I know that he won super bowls, but after looking at his career numbers, they don't really jump out to me.1 season with 10+ TDs (95)2 seasons with 90+ receptions (91 & 95)750 receptions for 11,904 yards and 65 TDs is HOF material???What am I missing here?
Click to expand...
His postseason performances.
Click to expand...
Yeah I guess, but I think putting players like Irvin in the hall just dimishes it's significance. What about his off the field problems? Maybe I'm in the minority but Irvin would not get my vote. Just my :lmao:
Click to expand...
Let's look at it this way. The WR's on the official NFL team of the 90's are Rice, Irvin, Tim Brown, and Cris Carter. Those seem like reasonable selections to me and there ought to be room in the Hall for the top 4 wideouts of each decade. But if you could pick just one besides Rice, I'd go with Irvin. Carter was a great possession receiver but Irvin was both a possession guy and a deep threat. (And Carter had some off-the-field issues just like Irvin). Irvin had better hands than Brown, his best seasons were better than Brown's best seasons, and he was superior in the postseason (granting that he had more opportunities). Irvin's career totals don't measure up to Brown or Carter but you have to make some allowances for the fact that he played on a team that didn't throw much and that his career ended a few years early due to injury.
 
Sidewinder16 said:
There are 24 modern era RBs currently in the HOF. Only 11 are in the top 20 lifetime leading rushers. Davis played in more games than either Doak Walker or Gale Sayers.Being a HOFer is about far more than longevity.
Click to expand...
I agree and disagree. Yes, being a top performer is one thing, but comparing players that played 30-40 years apart is extremely flaVVed.You have to compare players from the SAME generation. Careers were much shorter in the 60s, so guys that missed time were judged amoung their peers--who also had relatively short careers.In the 90s and 00s, there are a ton of guys posting crazy stats and many RB have played very long careers (Emmitt, Martin, Bettis, etc.). In this era, short careers ARE NOT the norm.For example, the run of the mill QB can pass for 3,000 yards in this era. Forty years ago, that would have led the league almost every year (or close to it).The bottom line is that Davis had 3 great years and another good one. But voters seem to feel that his career was too short (which I happen to agree with). If you can't even put up 5 great seasons, IMO you don't deserve induction.And IMO it works the other way too. If a player doesn't have 5 great seasons over a 20 year career, I still don't think you should be in the HOF.
 
David Yudkin said:
Sidewinder16 said:
There are 24 modern era RBs currently in the HOF. Only 11 are in the top 20 lifetime leading rushers. Davis played in more games than either Doak Walker or Gale Sayers.

Being a HOFer is about far more than longevity.
Click to expand...
I agree and disagree. Yes, being a top performer is one thing, but comparing players that played 30-40 years apart is extremely flaVVed.
Click to expand...
I agree and disagree. :wall: Comparing stats across eras is generally flawed, but career ending injuries are career ending injuries. You either get 'em or you don't.

David Yudkin said:
You have to compare players from the SAME generation.
Click to expand...
In general, I agree. If I asked you to name all the RBs who you thought were better RBs than Davis, within 5 years of the start and end of his career, I imagine it would be littered, if not completely filled with (future) HOFers.
 
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MarshallRob said:
Rounders said:
MarshallRob said:
Rounders said:
Am I the only one who thinks that M.Irvin does not deserve to be in the HOF. I know that he won super bowls, but after looking at his career numbers, they don't really jump out to me.1 season with 10+ TDs (95)2 seasons with 90+ receptions (91 & 95)750 receptions for 11,904 yards and 65 TDs is HOF material???What am I missing here?
Click to expand...
His postseason performances.
Click to expand...
Yeah I guess, but I think putting players like Irvin in the hall just dimishes it's significance. What about his off the field problems? Maybe I'm in the minority but Irvin would not get my vote. Just my :wall:
Click to expand...
Let's look at it this way. The WR's on the official NFL team of the 90's are Rice, Irvin, Tim Brown, and Cris Carter. Those seem like reasonable selections to me and there ought to be room in the Hall for the top 4 wideouts of each decade. But if you could pick just one besides Rice, I'd go with Irvin. Carter was a great possession receiver but Irvin was both a possession guy and a deep threat. (And Carter had some off-the-field issues just like Irvin). Irvin had better hands than Brown, his best seasons were better than Brown's best seasons, and he was superior in the postseason (granting that he had more opportunities). Irvin's career totals don't measure up to Brown or Carter but you have to make some allowances for the fact that he played on a team that didn't throw much and that his career ended a few years early due to injury.
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You make some very valid points which don't allow a lot of room to argue....it's just that I get that feeling that from a statistical standing Irvin does not deserve to be in the HOF.
 
Sidewinder16 said:
fsufan said:
RonMexico said:
Notably absent is Terrell Davis.
Click to expand...
I do not think TD is a HOF. He had 3 good years
Click to expand...
Personally, I'm still undecided as to Terrell's HOF-worthiness, but this is really an understatement of vast proportions. Especially, considering his postseason play and MVP (NFL and Super Bowl) honors.
Click to expand...
:wall: Look up his playoff numbers. They are arguably the best of any RB ever (of ones that played at least five games).

 
Sidewinder16 said:
fsufan said:
Sidewinder16 said:
fsufan said:
RonMexico said:
Notably absent is Terrell Davis.
Click to expand...
I do not think TD is a HOF. He had 3 good years
Click to expand...
Personally, I'm still undecided as to Terrell's HOF-worthiness, but this is really an understatement of vast proportions. Especially, considering his postseason play and MVP (NFL and Super Bowl) honors.
Click to expand...
To me the one of the criteria’s for the HOF is constant longevity. Every RB on this list played in the NFL for 10+ years with the exception of 4. There are only 2 HOF RBs that played under 10 years. The HOF cannot let all players in that had a few good games/years, it is the best of the best.Pro Football Hall of Fame Top 20 - Leading Lifetime Rushers

(At the Start of the 2005 NFL Season)

Rank Player League Yrs. Att. Yards Avg. TD

1 (1) EMMITT SMITH NFL 15 4,409 18,355 4.2 164

2 (2) Walter Payton * NFL 13 3,838 16,726 4.4 110

3 (3) Barry Sanders * NFL 10 3,062 15,269 5.0 99

4 (11) CURTIS MARTIN NFL 10 3,298 13,366 4.1 85

5 (6) JEROME BETTIS NFL 12 3,369 13,294 3.9 82

6 (4) Eric Dickerson * NFL 11 2,996 13,259 4.4 90

7 (5) Tony Dorsett * NFL 12 2,936 12,739 4.3 77

8 (7) Jim Brown * NFL 9 2,359 12,312 5.2 106

9 (8) Marcus Allen * NFL 16 3,022 12,243 4.1 123

10 (9) Franco Harris * NFL 13 2,949 12,120 4.1 91

11 (10) Thurman Thomas NFL 13 2,877 12,074 4.2 65

12 (14) MARSHALL FAULK NFL 11 2,771 11,987 4.3 100

13 (12) John Riggins * NFL 14 2,916 11,352 3.9 104

14 (13) O.J. Simpson * AFL-NFL 11 2,404 11,236 4.7 61

15 (15) Ricky Watters NFL 10 2,622 10,643 4.1 78

16 (17) EDDIE GEORGE NFL 9 2,865 10,441 3.6 68

17 (16) O.J. Anderson NFL 14 2,562 10,273 4.0 81

18 (18) Joe Perry * AAFC-NFL 16 1,929 9,723 5.0 71

19 (--) COREY DILLON NFL 8 2,210 9,696 4.4 57

20 (19) Earl Campbell * NFL 8 2,187 9,407 4.3 74

http://www.profootballhof.com/history/rele...release_id=1403
Click to expand...
There are 24 modern era RBs currently in the HOF. Only 11 are in the top 20 lifetime leading rushers. Davis played in more games than either Doak Walker or Gale Sayers.Being a HOFer is about far more than longevity.
Click to expand...
You do make a good argument, especially with Doak Walker and Gale Sayers. I love TD, but I don't think he belongs with the likes of Thurman Thomas, Curtis Martin, Jerome Bettis, etc.I would love it if he does get in, I just don't see it.

 
David Yudkin said:
If you can't even put up 5 great seasons, IMO you don't deserve induction.And IMO it works the other way too. If a player doesn't have 5 great seasons over a 20 year career, I still don't think you should be in the HOF.
Click to expand...
While we're on the subject...Why 5 years? Why not 4 or 6?Honest question. I'm interested in the significance of that number, in your opinion.
 
MarshallRob said:
The WR's on the official NFL team of the 90's are Rice, Irvin, Tim Brown, and Cris Carter. Those seem like reasonable selections to me and there ought to be room in the Hall for the top 4 wideouts of each decade. But if you could pick just one besides Rice, I'd go with Irvin.
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My jaw dropped when I got this far, and I had to scroll up to see if you had a silver star for an avatar.
 
Despyzer said:
MarshallRob said:
The WR's on the official NFL team of the 90's are Rice, Irvin, Tim Brown, and Cris Carter. Those seem like reasonable selections to me and there ought to be room in the Hall for the top 4 wideouts of each decade. But if you could pick just one besides Rice, I'd go with Irvin.
Click to expand...
My jaw dropped when I got this far, and I had to scroll up to see if you had a silver star for an avatar.
Click to expand...
You'd take Tim Brown and/or Cris Carter over Michael Irvin?
 
Sidewinder16 said:
In general, I agree. If I asked you to name all the RBs who you thought were better RBs than Davis, within 5 years of the start and end of his career, I imagine it would be littered, if not completely filled with (future) HOFers.
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Basically, anyone that played 1990 to present is fair game. The list of candidates (not necessarily guys that will get in) include:Eric Dickerson* (already inducted)Barry Sanders* (already inducted)Marcus Allen* (already inducted)Emmitt Smith LOCKCurtis Martin NEAR LOCKJerome Bettis NEAR LOCKMarshall Faulk NEAR LOCKThurman Thomas NEAR LOCKEdgerrin James NEAR LOCKShaun Alexander NEAR LOCKLaDainian Tomlinson NEAR LOCKGUYS WITH A SHOTRicky WattersEddie GeorgeCorey DillonTiki BarberRoger CraigPriest HolmesWarrick DunnGUYS THAT WON'T MAKE ITOttis AndersonFred TaylorHerschel WalkerAhman GreenGUYS THAT IT'S TOO SOON TO TELL (I'm sure there are others)Jamal LewisLarry JohnsonDeuce McAllisterClinton PortisReggie BushSteven JacksonWillis McGaheeI don't see how the top tier I listed won't all make it--and that's 11 players right there. Maybe one or two of the second tier make it too. So to answer your question, yes, there are a lot of RBs out there from Davis' era. How many guys that played together are going to make it? Even 12 is REALLY pushing the envelope (at least the HOF voters haven't inducted that many RB from the same era in the past).
 
dgreen said:
Despyzer said:
MarshallRob said:
The WR's on the official NFL team of the 90's are Rice, Irvin, Tim Brown, and Cris Carter. Those seem like reasonable selections to me and there ought to be room in the Hall for the top 4 wideouts of each decade. But if you could pick just one besides Rice, I'd go with Irvin.
Click to expand...
My jaw dropped when I got this far, and I had to scroll up to see if you had a silver star for an avatar.
Click to expand...
You'd take Tim Brown and/or Cris Carter over Michael Irvin?
Click to expand...
Easily.
 
Despyzer said:
dgreen said:
Despyzer said:
MarshallRob said:
The WR's on the official NFL team of the 90's are Rice, Irvin, Tim Brown, and Cris Carter. Those seem like reasonable selections to me and there ought to be room in the Hall for the top 4 wideouts of each decade. But if you could pick just one besides Rice, I'd go with Irvin.
Click to expand...
My jaw dropped when I got this far, and I had to scroll up to see if you had a silver star for an avatar.
Click to expand...
You'd take Tim Brown and/or Cris Carter over Michael Irvin?
Click to expand...
Easily.
Click to expand...
:eek:
 
Sidewinder16 said:
David Yudkin said:
If you can't even put up 5 great seasons, IMO you don't deserve induction.And IMO it works the other way too. If a player doesn't have 5 great seasons over a 20 year career, I still don't think you should be in the HOF.
Click to expand...
While we're on the subject...Why 5 years? Why not 4 or 6?Honest question. I'm interested in the significance of that number, in your opinion.
Click to expand...
IMO, 5 is a nice threshold because there are several players that are ALMOST to 5 years but not there. Five HOF worthy years (at any point) to me shows that this is not someone that was a flash in the pan. In Davis' case, he had a SEVERELY heavy workload, and perhaps that is why he couldn't play anymore. Is five years a definitive solution? Of course not. But when you start looking at 5 year intervals, the guys with 2 or 3 great years start falling a lot farther down the list, which IMO is how they should be viewed. Better than many others, but not better than guys that really were great for at least 5 years.
 
David Yudkin said:
Sidewinder16 said:
In general, I agree. If I asked you to name all the RBs who you thought were better RBs than Davis, within 5 years of the start and end of his career, I imagine it would be littered, if not completely filled with (future) HOFers.
Click to expand...
I don't see how the top tier I listed won't all make it--and that's 11 players right there. Maybe one or two of the second tier make it too. So to answer your question, yes, there are a lot of RBs out there from Davis' era. How many guys that played together are going to make it? Even 12 is REALLY pushing the envelope (at least the HOF voters haven't inducted that many RB from the same era in the past).
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You think all those backs were/are better RBs than Davis was? Or just the top tier ones you listed?Like I've said before, I'm undecided about Davis's HOF-worthiness. But, what he did in the NFL, before injuries stole a long career from him, was greatness personified, IMO, and had a significant impact on the history of the NFL. I'm completely OK with that not being enough for others to think he is Hall-worthy.
 
Yeah I guess, but I think putting players like Irvin in the hall just dimishes it's significance. What about his off the field problems? Maybe I'm in the minority but Irvin would not get my vote. Just my
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Man I hate it when people bring stuff like this up. Dont get me wrong, i'm a Packers fan, i have plenty of reasons to hate Irvin, but its the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Good Guys. Who cares what happened off the field. He was a premier player, had good stats, and has 3 rings. He's borderline, but I think he probably should be in because he has 3 rings, and he was a big part of those championships.
 
I really like Davis, but I think his "greatness" gets watered down when one considers the rotation of mediocre RBs that have had great success running behind that line in that scheme.

 
David Yudkin said:
Sidewinder16 said:
In general, I agree. If I asked you to name all the RBs who you thought were better RBs than Davis, within 5 years of the start and end of his career, I imagine it would be littered, if not completely filled with (future) HOFers.
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Basically, anyone that played 1990 to present is fair game. The list of candidates (not necessarily guys that will get in) include:Eric Dickerson* (already inducted)Barry Sanders* (already inducted)Marcus Allen* (already inducted)Emmitt Smith LOCKCurtis Martin NEAR LOCKJerome Bettis NEAR LOCKMarshall Faulk NEAR LOCKThurman Thomas NEAR LOCKEdgerrin James NEAR LOCKShaun Alexander NEAR LOCKLaDainian Tomlinson NEAR LOCKGUYS WITH A SHOTRicky WattersEddie GeorgeCorey DillonTiki BarberRoger CraigPriest HolmesWarrick DunnGUYS THAT WON'T MAKE ITOttis AndersonFred TaylorHerschel WalkerAhman GreenGUYS THAT IT'S TOO SOON TO TELL (I'm sure there are others)Jamal LewisLarry JohnsonDeuce McAllisterClinton PortisReggie BushSteven JacksonWillis McGaheeI don't see how the top tier I listed won't all make it--and that's 11 players right there. Maybe one or two of the second tier make it too. So to answer your question, yes, there are a lot of RBs out there from Davis' era. How many guys that played together are going to make it? Even 12 is REALLY pushing the envelope (at least the HOF voters haven't inducted that many RB from the same era in the past).
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I dont agree with Craig having a shot, he has been retired for years and has never finaled or I think semi-finaled. I think Walker and Anderson have outside shots way down the road. Also I would include Alstott on the the no shot list since he has a million pro bowl appearances.
 
Sidewinder16 said:
fsufan said:
Sidewinder16 said:
fsufan said:
RonMexico said:
Notably absent is Terrell Davis.
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I do not think TD is a HOF. He had 3 good years
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Personally, I'm still undecided as to Terrell's HOF-worthiness, but this is really an understatement of vast proportions. Especially, considering his postseason play and MVP (NFL and Super Bowl) honors.
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To me the one of the criteria’s for the HOF is constant longevity. Every RB on this list played in the NFL for 10+ years with the exception of 4. There are only 2 HOF RBs that played under 10 years. The HOF cannot let all players in that had a few good games/years, it is the best of the best.Pro Football Hall of Fame Top 20 - Leading Lifetime Rushers

(At the Start of the 2005 NFL Season)

Rank Player League Yrs. Att. Yards Avg. TD

1 (1) EMMITT SMITH NFL 15 4,409 18,355 4.2 164

2 (2) Walter Payton * NFL 13 3,838 16,726 4.4 110

3 (3) Barry Sanders * NFL 10 3,062 15,269 5.0 99

4 (11) CURTIS MARTIN NFL 10 3,298 13,366 4.1 85

5 (6) JEROME BETTIS NFL 12 3,369 13,294 3.9 82

6 (4) Eric Dickerson * NFL 11 2,996 13,259 4.4 90

7 (5) Tony Dorsett * NFL 12 2,936 12,739 4.3 77

8 (7) Jim Brown * NFL 9 2,359 12,312 5.2 106

9 (8) Marcus Allen * NFL 16 3,022 12,243 4.1 123

10 (9) Franco Harris * NFL 13 2,949 12,120 4.1 91

11 (10) Thurman Thomas NFL 13 2,877 12,074 4.2 65

12 (14) MARSHALL FAULK NFL 11 2,771 11,987 4.3 100

13 (12) John Riggins * NFL 14 2,916 11,352 3.9 104

14 (13) O.J. Simpson * AFL-NFL 11 2,404 11,236 4.7 61

15 (15) Ricky Watters NFL 10 2,622 10,643 4.1 78

16 (17) EDDIE GEORGE NFL 9 2,865 10,441 3.6 68

17 (16) O.J. Anderson NFL 14 2,562 10,273 4.0 81

18 (18) Joe Perry * AAFC-NFL 16 1,929 9,723 5.0 71

19 (--) COREY DILLON NFL 8 2,210 9,696 4.4 57

20 (19) Earl Campbell * NFL 8 2,187 9,407 4.3 74

http://www.profootballhof.com/history/rele...release_id=1403
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There are 24 modern era RBs currently in the HOF. Only 11 are in the top 20 lifetime leading rushers. Davis played in more games than either Doak Walker or Gale Sayers.Being a HOFer is about far more than longevity.
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1 (1) EMMITT SMITH NFL 15 4,409 18,355 4.2 164 4 (11) CURTIS MARTIN NFL 10 3,298 13,366 4.1 85

5 (6) JEROME BETTIS NFL 12 3,369 13,294 3.9 82

11 (10) Thurman Thomas NFL 13 2,877 12,074 4.2 65

12 (14) MARSHALL FAULK NFL 11 2,771 11,987 4.3 100

These are HOF backs, not merely because of longevity. We've been very lucky to see some great RB's the last 15 years who were able to stay mostly healthy. George and Dillon were very good but I don't think they were great.

 
Despyzer said:
dgreen said:
Despyzer said:
MarshallRob said:
The WR's on the official NFL team of the 90's are Rice, Irvin, Tim Brown, and Cris Carter. Those seem like reasonable selections to me and there ought to be room in the Hall for the top 4 wideouts of each decade. But if you could pick just one besides Rice, I'd go with Irvin.
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My jaw dropped when I got this far, and I had to scroll up to see if you had a silver star for an avatar.
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You'd take Tim Brown and/or Cris Carter over Michael Irvin?
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Easily.
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TOTAL | 149 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 670 9174 13.7 62 TOTAL | 159 | 6 6 1.0 0 | 750 11904 15.9 65

No one ever talks about the "other" wr from the 90's but if not derailed by injury Herman Moore would have had better numbers than Irvin but he will never get a sniff for the HOF

 
RonMexico said:
Notably absent is Terrell Davis.
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As a Bronco fan I'm more disappointed that Gradisher isn't on that list. IMO it's a disgrace that he isn't in the HOF.That a ####### punter is on that list but he isn't just pisses me off even more.Screw the HOF BS.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sidewinder16 said:
David Yudkin said:
Sidewinder16 said:
In general, I agree. If I asked you to name all the RBs who you thought were better RBs than Davis, within 5 years of the start and end of his career, I imagine it would be littered, if not completely filled with (future) HOFers.
Click to expand...
I don't see how the top tier I listed won't all make it--and that's 11 players right there. Maybe one or two of the second tier make it too. So to answer your question, yes, there are a lot of RBs out there from Davis' era. How many guys that played together are going to make it? Even 12 is REALLY pushing the envelope (at least the HOF voters haven't inducted that many RB from the same era in the past).
Click to expand...
You think all those backs were/are better RBs than Davis was? Or just the top tier ones you listed?Like I've said before, I'm undecided about Davis's HOF-worthiness. But, what he did in the NFL, before injuries stole a long career from him, was greatness personified, IMO, and had a significant impact on the history of the NFL. I'm completely OK with that not being enough for others to think he is Hall-worthy.
Click to expand...
I believe you are asking more than one question. Do I think Davis in his prime was better than most of these other backs. Yes. Do I think Davis had HOF worthy talent and ability? Yes. Do I think the other 10-12 guys on my list stand better chances to get in the HOF? Yes. Do I think Davis played long enough to get in? Probably not. Do I think we should consider what he WOULD HAVE done if healthy? No--he didn't actually do it.I have argued FOR DAVIS at times in the past, as his 3 peak seasons were at the time the three best consecutive seasons by a RB. I would rather see a dominant guy get in that burned out than a true compiler that will get in for being good to very good for forever. That being said, with every year that passes and with a lot of RBs getting say 2000 total yards in a season (there were 5 players in 06), Davis' great seasons will not look quite as impressive and IMO his chances will diminish. If he couldn't make the finalists with the wave of him first getting on the ballot, IMO he may have a hard time mustering enough support.
 
I am very happy to see NO quarterbacks on this list. Only 1 RB & 3 WR's makes this - hopefully - a very good class for the underrepresented linemen & defenders.

I see Tags & Thomas as locks this year, although I don't know why they even bother nominating commissioners - don't they pretty much all end up in anyway?

I think Mathews will get in for sure at some point, but not necessarily this year, his first year of eligibility. As the only "new guy" among the players, that helps.

Dean, Reed & Tippett have basically no shot this year as holdover candidates who are finalists for the first time. Reed might have an outside chance if there weren't better WR's among the finalists - he's not a guy I would've expected to see as a finalist, so it's interesting.

 
ffchamp1 said:
Despyzer said:
dgreen said:
Despyzer said:
MarshallRob said:
The WR's on the official NFL team of the 90's are Rice, Irvin, Tim Brown, and Cris Carter. Those seem like reasonable selections to me and there ought to be room in the Hall for the top 4 wideouts of each decade. But if you could pick just one besides Rice, I'd go with Irvin.
Click to expand...
My jaw dropped when I got this far, and I had to scroll up to see if you had a silver star for an avatar.
Click to expand...
You'd take Tim Brown and/or Cris Carter over Michael Irvin?
Click to expand...
Easily.
Click to expand...
TOTAL | 149 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 670 9174 13.7 62 TOTAL | 159 | 6 6 1.0 0 | 750 11904 15.9 65

No one ever talks about the "other" wr from the 90's but if not derailed by injury Herman Moore would have had better numbers than Irvin but he will never get a sniff for the HOF
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Herein lies the problem that not many people are addressing. In the last 15 or so years, we have witnessed an EXPLOSION of offensive production. Everyone points to career totals from guys from eras past and effectively say, "Well my guy has better career stats than PLAYER X."The fact of the matter is, in another 10-15 years, there will be so many players with gaudy numbers yet not all of these people can make the HOF. Players and offensive schemes are getting bettter. Players are playing longer and can recover from previously career ending injuries. There's talk again about adding games to the regular season. There are so many people posting up big numbers, including some players that few people even realize. For example, next year Keyshawn Johnson will enter the Top 10 all-time in receptions. He only started playing in 1996. Is he HOF worthy?

So what will happen? In the past, on average, the HOF voters inducted roughly 10 guys from an era or generation from the same position. IMO, the voters will not suddenly start inducting 30 guys at the same position just because they all have good numbers. At some point, we will have to stop saying that players had however many 1,000 yard seasons as that won't mean much. We will have to up that to something like 1,500 yard seasons (or some other number).

 
Skino said:
You do make a good argument, especially with Doak Walker and Gale Sayers. I love TD, but I don't think he belongs with the likes of Thurman Thomas, Curtis Martin, Jerome Bettis, etc.I would love it if he does get in, I just don't see it.
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Davis was a better runningback than all 3 of those guys. He just didn't do it for as long. No way...NO WAY would anybody take the best years of Bettis or Martin over the best years of Davis. I'd listen to arguments for Thurman Thomas...but you'll never convince me that Martin or Bettis were better.
 
David Yudkin said:
Herein lies the problem that not many people are addressing. In the last 15 or so years, we have witnessed an EXPLOSION of offensive production. Everyone points to career totals from guys from eras past and effectively say, "Well my guy has better career stats than PLAYER X."The fact of the matter is, in another 10-15 years, there will be so many players with gaudy numbers yet not all of these people can make the HOF. Players and offensive schemes are getting bettter. Players are playing longer and can recover from previously career ending injuries. There's talk again about adding games to the regular season. There are so many people posting up big numbers, including some players that few people even realize. For example, next year Keyshawn Johnson will enter the Top 10 all-time in receptions. He only started playing in 1996. Is he HOF worthy?So what will happen? In the past, on average, the HOF voters inducted roughly 10 guys from an era or generation from the same position. IMO, the voters will not suddenly start inducting 30 guys at the same position just because they all have good numbers. At some point, we will have to stop saying that players had however many 1,000 yard seasons as that won't mean much. We will have to up that to something like 1,500 yard seasons (or some other number).
Click to expand...
This is an excellent point. One needs to really compare against the era, and NOT simply look at leaderboards. Very few guys are left on offensive leaderboards that played a while ago due to the big 3 David mentions:1. Longer seasons2. Rules changed to favor offense3. Improved medical careExamples of guys now or once high up on leader boards who are NOT HoF worthy:Keyshawn JohnsonVinny TestaverdeDave KriegOttis (OJ) AndersonWhat I would love to see is a lot of inductees who played OL & Defense get in over the next few yearswith the occassional TE and Ray Guy sprinkled in.
 
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