wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
Right?
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So can we all agree yet? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter wiscstlatlmia
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wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
Non-PPR I would move Nicks up to #2.
Calvin, Nicks, Fitz, AJ, White
PPR I would move AJ and Fitz up
Calvin, Fitz, AJ, Nicks, White
Big diff between these 5 and next tier.
Calvin, Nicks, Fitz, AJ, White
PPR I would move AJ and Fitz up
Calvin, Fitz, AJ, Nicks, White
Big diff between these 5 and next tier.
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
tie breaker is 3 inches. 6'2 to 6'5.
Sweet Love
IBL Representative
Why not? Nicks has two less games under his belt this year and is just 100 yards and two TDs behind CJ. He is also three years younger than CJ and plays for a better team.Don't get me wrong, I like what CJ has done this year (especially with the variety at QB), but he better get used to it as Stafford has not shown he can stay healthy.
doowain
Footballguy
Speaking of "can't stay healthy"....how bout that Nicks guy?Can't really go wrong with any of the Top 5 guys.....but for that reason alone my #1 is a tie between AJ and Roddy.
doowain
Footballguy
False.
NorrisB
Footballguy
when players like Calvin and Nicks are like neck in neck with an older already I tend to go with the younger player but to each his own
doowain
Footballguy
I could put Calvin in that category (he's directly behind them), but I just can't for Nicks.
Not only is Calvin the #1 dynasty WR at the tender young age of 25, but I would put calvin as a top 5 overall pick in Dynasty. In fact, personally, I don't think there is any other player I would have in dynasty at the current time with the POSSIBLE exception of ADP. But ADP has some years on him now, 5 workhorse years, so I'm not sure how much longer he can go at his current level.
F$#K it, I wouldn't have any problem with taking Calvin #1 overall in dynasty, lol...
F$#K it, I wouldn't have any problem with taking Calvin #1 overall in dynasty, lol...
oukurt
Footballguy
oukurt
Footballguy
Oh he missed 2 games and came back a week earlier than expected. Yes what a injury concern he is.
Also keep in mind that he did not damage muscles or break any bones or ripped any ligaments or tore muscles etc etc etc. His "injury" was a compression of nerves and blood vessels within an enclosed space. The best part about his condition was they caught immediately before any lasting damage could take place.With prompt diagnosis and treatment, the outlook is excellent for recovery of the muscles and nerves inside the compartment. In Nicks case, they caught it real fast and treated it accordingly. The only thing he essentially lost was some play time and muscles that got weaker. Knowing how these guys work out, I am sure he is close to being 100%.This should not affect his outlook for years to come barring any further injury of course. Nicks should be a top 5 WR regardless.oukurt said:
Dawg Pound 69
Footballguy
Dez should be drafted before Bowe. Probably Jennings over Bowe too.flc735 said:
NorrisB
Footballguy
Doowain normally I like your posts but Roddy White and Andre Johnson are too old, Im not taking a player #1 at any position except maybe QB thats gonna be 30 the first year I have the guy. You dont get points for past production and Nicks is ahead of those guys. You were probably one of those guys taking randy moss top 5 in startups. I dont think Roddy is that great of a receiving talent very good yes but dont think he's #1 material, he's had a nice year but I think it was just the perfect storm and he'll come down to earth and wont be worth #1 WR by a long shot.
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Love Nicks. Very close for me between Nicks and CJ. I would probably take CJ but try and trade him for Nicks + something else, as CJ's perceived value is a little higher.oukurt said:NorrisB said:
was?
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
Imagine how much better he would of been if he were 6'5.
He's a former first round pick, whom averages 1255+ yards, 8 touchdowns, over the last 4 seasons, with 2 games left to play to add to it, One of the seasons he had Chris Redman/Joey Harrington QB'ing, the next a rookie Matt Ryan whom was very good in his own right but still a rookie..
He's most definitely a great receiving talent
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Kitrick Taylor
Footballguy
Nicks isn't in the same class talent wise as Calvin. Calvin, AJ and Fitz are a cut above everyone else in terms of talent. Austin, Nicks and Roddy all are exceptional WRs, but are a distinct tier below the top 3 talent wise.
Lucky enough to have a great writer for the Milwaukee Journal that covers the Packers in Bob McGinn. He previews the upcoming opponent each week. He has been covering the Packers for decades, and has great contacts in the NFL scouting community and with GMs. He uses those contacts frequently to help write his articles. Here's his take on the Giants WRs this week:
Hakeem Nicks (6-1, 215), the 29th pick in 2009, has average speed (4.55 seconds) in the 40 but is more of a downfield receiver. He's a step down from former Giant Plaxico Burress. Nicks is competitive at the ball, has strong hands and isn't afraid of collisions. He is dropping more balls than he should. Third-down security blanket Steve Smith, who caught 107 passes in '09, was lost for the season in Week 13 (knee). Moving up are Mario Manningham (5-11½, 195), a third-round pick in '08, and No. 3 Derek Hagan (6-2, 215), a third-round pick in '06 who was cut and then re-signed Nov. 16. Manningham is sleek, capable of acrobatic catches and ran 4.42. He's far more explosive than Smith but isn't nearly as consistent and blows too many assignments. Hagan failed in Miami because his hands were shaky. Joining Smith on injured reserve are Domenik Hixon and Ramses Barden, both of whom were better than Hagan. TE Kevin Boss (6-6½, 253), a three-year starter, averages a team-best 15.2 yards because he runs well (4.78) and makes big plays. His blocking is mediocre. Former Badger Travis Beckum (6-3, 239), a third-round pick in '09, lacks full grasp of the offense and has a limited role.
Here's his take on the Lion WRs from two weeks ago:
There were games early in Calvin Johnson's four-year career when bump-and-run specialists such as Al Harris got in his face and won the day. The only way foes can contain Johnson now is safety over the top and redirects underneath. Johnson has great size (6 feet 5 inches, 236 pounds), speed (4.35 seconds in the 40-yard dash) and jumping ability (42½ inches). Plus, he scored 23 on the Wonderlic intelligence test and has come out of his shell to shoulder more of a leadership role. Nate Burleson (6-0½, 198), who sat out the first GB game, is an adequate No. 2. A 65-game starter for Minnesota and Seattle from 2003-'09, Burleson is athletic, nifty and elusive after the catch. He's also not very strong and not very tough. The rotating No. 3s, Derrick Williams (5-11½, 197) and Bryant Johnson (6-2½, 215), offer next to nothing. Brandon Pettigrew (6-5½, 265) is tied for second in receptions by a TE with 60. The 20th pick in '09, Pettigrew is a tremendous all-around talent. He's big, moves well with the ball, catches just about everything and can get movement as a drive blocker. Backup TE Tony Scheffler (6-5½, 255), a featured player through midyear, remains nagged by a rib injury and hasn't been a factor.
Lucky enough to have a great writer for the Milwaukee Journal that covers the Packers in Bob McGinn. He previews the upcoming opponent each week. He has been covering the Packers for decades, and has great contacts in the NFL scouting community and with GMs. He uses those contacts frequently to help write his articles. Here's his take on the Giants WRs this week:
Hakeem Nicks (6-1, 215), the 29th pick in 2009, has average speed (4.55 seconds) in the 40 but is more of a downfield receiver. He's a step down from former Giant Plaxico Burress. Nicks is competitive at the ball, has strong hands and isn't afraid of collisions. He is dropping more balls than he should. Third-down security blanket Steve Smith, who caught 107 passes in '09, was lost for the season in Week 13 (knee). Moving up are Mario Manningham (5-11½, 195), a third-round pick in '08, and No. 3 Derek Hagan (6-2, 215), a third-round pick in '06 who was cut and then re-signed Nov. 16. Manningham is sleek, capable of acrobatic catches and ran 4.42. He's far more explosive than Smith but isn't nearly as consistent and blows too many assignments. Hagan failed in Miami because his hands were shaky. Joining Smith on injured reserve are Domenik Hixon and Ramses Barden, both of whom were better than Hagan. TE Kevin Boss (6-6½, 253), a three-year starter, averages a team-best 15.2 yards because he runs well (4.78) and makes big plays. His blocking is mediocre. Former Badger Travis Beckum (6-3, 239), a third-round pick in '09, lacks full grasp of the offense and has a limited role.
Here's his take on the Lion WRs from two weeks ago:
There were games early in Calvin Johnson's four-year career when bump-and-run specialists such as Al Harris got in his face and won the day. The only way foes can contain Johnson now is safety over the top and redirects underneath. Johnson has great size (6 feet 5 inches, 236 pounds), speed (4.35 seconds in the 40-yard dash) and jumping ability (42½ inches). Plus, he scored 23 on the Wonderlic intelligence test and has come out of his shell to shoulder more of a leadership role. Nate Burleson (6-0½, 198), who sat out the first GB game, is an adequate No. 2. A 65-game starter for Minnesota and Seattle from 2003-'09, Burleson is athletic, nifty and elusive after the catch. He's also not very strong and not very tough. The rotating No. 3s, Derrick Williams (5-11½, 197) and Bryant Johnson (6-2½, 215), offer next to nothing. Brandon Pettigrew (6-5½, 265) is tied for second in receptions by a TE with 60. The 20th pick in '09, Pettigrew is a tremendous all-around talent. He's big, moves well with the ball, catches just about everything and can get movement as a drive blocker. Backup TE Tony Scheffler (6-5½, 255), a featured player through midyear, remains nagged by a rib injury and hasn't been a factor.
ChromeWeasel
Footballguy
I'd rather have Roddy White.I dont understand why Fitzgerald is even in the conversation, he's not in the elite class without a capable QB.wiscstlatlmia said:
oukurt
Footballguy
Is Calvin the more gifted WR? Sure. But if you aren't factoring in the situation then you are missing the boat. Calvin may never have a good consistently good QB throwing him the ball. I would draft them like this in dynasty leagues:
1. Nicks
2. Dez
3. CJ
4. Roddy
5. Jennings
6. Marshall
7. Austin
8. V Jackson
9. D Jackson
10. Fitz (will bump up if QB situation ever improves)
Curious to what others have as their dynasty top 10 WRs if drafting today.
1. Nicks
2. Dez
3. CJ
4. Roddy
5. Jennings
6. Marshall
7. Austin
8. V Jackson
9. D Jackson
10. Fitz (will bump up if QB situation ever improves)
Curious to what others have as their dynasty top 10 WRs if drafting today.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
You keep planning to make that title run in 2015.NorrisB said:
cmv5
Footballguy
I really don't get this argument. Look at Calvin's career. He has not yet had a consistent QB and he has put up some pretty phenomenal numbers. The crazy part is he still has some room to improve in his route running. We have seen Calvin Johnson's floor. He has had Coletto as a coordinator, Orlovsky and fresh off the street starter Culpepper as his QB and he put up 1331 and 12 tds that year.. He just put up 10 for 152 with Drew Stanton. DREW STANTON! Show me one guy with the exception of Roddy White and Fitz, on your list that you would feel comfortable doing that with.
By the way, no Andre Johnson?
Kitrick Taylor
Footballguy
Pretty low on Andre huh?I'd go1. Calvin2. AJ3. Fitz4. Roddy5. Djax6. Nicks7. Austin8. Jennings9. Dez10. Maclin
doowain
Footballguy
This X1000.
flc735
Footballguy
me too but i don't think the adp will.i dont see nicks situation improving much more. they have thier qb, rb and wr's. good offensive line. steve smith leaving is the only change that could happencalvins on the other hand can improve. he played with his backup qb half the year. his team has room for improvement. they need o-line help, an upgrade at wr2, and i dont expect stafford to miss as many games next year.flc735 said:although i would put Fitz there instead of Bowe
steelcityman
Footballguy
I like #10 in Philly. Better QB, better offense, better team and he returns punts, younger and faster.
Quez
Footballguy
Why isn't Mike Williams in this argument? He is on pace for 1000yds /10TDs and is in a good young offense. With the emergence of Benn and a solid running game it ensures he won't be double teamed as much as some of the other guys mentioned. I don't think he is as talented as say a guy like Fitz but his outlook for the next 5 years should be a little more consistant.
Mike Williams is a hell of a talent. Arguably the best rookie receiver (with Dez hurt). However, I doubt you will see anyone draft Mike Williams in an inaugural dynasty draft in the first round. If he puts up numbers like this again next year, then he might be a top 5-10 receiver pick in 2012. Right now, he is a good investment for future value, but he's not there yet.
FantasyTrader
Footballguy
As a Calvin owner, this is what I'm the most excited about and why he'd be my #1 WR overall. He continues to put up crazy numbers despite a rotation of Matt Stafford (sparingly) and otherwise forgettable names. In regards to Roddy, Andre and Nicks, etc. we've pretty much seen their best case scenarios. And I'll admit those three have DA** good best case scenarios. But with Calvin, he's among the league leaders and I have a hunch we'll all look back on 2010 and realize, "Holy crap...who knew that was acutally Calvin being held in check!?!" I know it's been a series of fitful starts/stops for Calvin early in his career here, but I think he's on the brink of a season that sparks career comparisons of Calvin vs. Jerry Rice. Seriously.And speaking of Rice, (Sidney) I think most everybody has been too quick to close the book on him this year for dynasty purposes. He's an amazing athlete who is still only a young 24 years old with a career TD to games started ratio of 18 to 26! 2009 was no fluke for Sid, if he gets a QB he's the real deal. I'll catch crap for this, but Sid would be in my top 7 drafting a startup dynasty today.
Shutout
Footballguy
Unless you are absolutely sure that you're going into a great player's last productive year, the concept of age is largely (not totally) overrated, mainly because you can still do one of two things:
A) Draft the player and WIN YOUR LEAGUE with him (which somehow seems like a novel idea to me).
B) Trade him and get more for him because of name recognition and consistency history.
Every year, in various leagues, I see new start up dynasties and 80% of the league jumps into "Logan's Run" mode and thinks they need all the 26 year olds. By then end of the season, the guys that win the league usually are the guys that took the steady top performers.
In 2004, in a starup I saw a guy take Marvin Harrison, the "washed up" 32 year old, Zach Thomas (31), Jason Taylor (30), Trent Green (34), etc. He rolled the league for two straight years, still sold some of the guys for good prices, and had the luxury to stock young guys he didn't need at the time for cheap (like Reggie Wayne, Larry Johnson, Dallas Clark). Needless to say, he's had a good run because he didn't get caught up in always having to have the newest, shiniest toy in the box.
If I was in a dynasty startup and AJ fell to me as the #11 WR, I would probably just have to smile, give the entry money back and tell everyone I didn't need a free charity. You could draft a guy like AJ next year, use him as your hands down #1 for 3-4 years, probably sell him for a high pick/young player to someone in a title run, and have 4 years to be finding your next WR stud to groom in the process.
Dynasty leagues are all about short AND long-term building and planning, with the emphasis on the main goal of winning in the current year. If you get lazy and adopt the idea of snagging all these young kids and then being able to just put it on auto pilot for half a decade, you're doomed because you're not going to sustain winning year in and year out if you're only willing to do the work in the first couple of months the league exists.
A) Draft the player and WIN YOUR LEAGUE with him (which somehow seems like a novel idea to me).
B) Trade him and get more for him because of name recognition and consistency history.
Every year, in various leagues, I see new start up dynasties and 80% of the league jumps into "Logan's Run" mode and thinks they need all the 26 year olds. By then end of the season, the guys that win the league usually are the guys that took the steady top performers.
In 2004, in a starup I saw a guy take Marvin Harrison, the "washed up" 32 year old, Zach Thomas (31), Jason Taylor (30), Trent Green (34), etc. He rolled the league for two straight years, still sold some of the guys for good prices, and had the luxury to stock young guys he didn't need at the time for cheap (like Reggie Wayne, Larry Johnson, Dallas Clark). Needless to say, he's had a good run because he didn't get caught up in always having to have the newest, shiniest toy in the box.
If I was in a dynasty startup and AJ fell to me as the #11 WR, I would probably just have to smile, give the entry money back and tell everyone I didn't need a free charity. You could draft a guy like AJ next year, use him as your hands down #1 for 3-4 years, probably sell him for a high pick/young player to someone in a title run, and have 4 years to be finding your next WR stud to groom in the process.
Dynasty leagues are all about short AND long-term building and planning, with the emphasis on the main goal of winning in the current year. If you get lazy and adopt the idea of snagging all these young kids and then being able to just put it on auto pilot for half a decade, you're doomed because you're not going to sustain winning year in and year out if you're only willing to do the work in the first couple of months the league exists.
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1. Calvin Johnson2. Andre Johnson3. Larry Fitzgerald4. Roddy White5. Hakeem Nicks6. Miles Austin7. DeSean Jackson8. Dez Bryant9. Sidney Rice10. Vincent Jackson
doubletrouble
Footballguy
Dez
Footballguy
I tend to hang onto players too long but I am going to try and win my 7th title in 14 years in my dynasty league.On the other side the guy I am playing has won 2 times and has turned his roster over every time a player hits his peek. IE Gore this year he traded, LT he traded during 2006, ect but it is the 1st time he has made the finals since 2000 so maybe that isn't the greatest strategy to always get as much for a player as you can if your only making the finals for the 1st time in 10 years.
Don't think I agree with this, though I do think Plax was underrated before he was incarcerated.
I had Calvin in my lineup last year and he only had 5 TD's. I picked him last year because of his 12 TD's in 2008. His production this year is much like 2008. My opponent has him in his lineup for the Championship game this week. I'm hoping Miami does a better job of containing him.
flc735
Footballguy
wait a sec.
shouldn't collie be in this mess?
take out week 9 where he didn't really play and he averages more points than roddy.
he's 25 and obviously peytons favorite target. his only knock are concussions but is that just wrong place at the wrong time?
if you guarantee me his health, he should be top 5 dynasty. probably over bowe at least. since that cant happen, he droops but not out of the top 10 imo
shouldn't collie be in this mess?
take out week 9 where he didn't really play and he averages more points than roddy.
he's 25 and obviously peytons favorite target. his only knock are concussions but is that just wrong place at the wrong time?
if you guarantee me his health, he should be top 5 dynasty. probably over bowe at least. since that cant happen, he droops but not out of the top 10 imo
