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A Case For DeAngelo Williams (3 Viewers)

JGalligan

Footballguy
Since the middle of last year, I’ve been telling anyone who will listen about how 2008 will be DeAngelo Williams’ breakout year. I sincerely believed it and still do, but it's gotten progressively harder with each passing month. He has things to work on, he has fundamentals to learn and now has a talented young rookie ready to take the starting job. If Williams can clear up the problems he has with blocking and picking up the blitz, he has the talent to not only keep the majority of carries, but keep them for a long time.

Word out of Panthers camp is that they’ve more or less given up on him as the starter due to his pass protection issues and view him mainly as a supplementary, third-down back. Never one to go back on a prediction unless there’s blatant evidence to the contrary staring me in the face, I decided to try and go into some of the reasons the Panthers shouldn’t give up on Williams just yet. Plus, it keeps the hope alive since there may or may not have been some money wagered on this very topic.

Williams has seen some injuries both in college and the pros and many believe that at 5’9” and 217 pounds he doesn’t have what it takes to withstand the vigor’s that come with being a starting running back. Coming to this conclusion years from now would be okay, but Williams is going into his third NFL season. Third. There's plenty of evidence to support that it just takes some players a couple of years to get their bodies and minds on the NFL level. Late bloomers, if you will. But just because may bloom late doesn't mean that they can't bloom at all.

The perfect example? Brian Westbrook. Westbrook had a similar rep for getting injured from time to time and at 5’10” and 203 pounds he is almost anatomically identical to Williams. Early on in his career he too wasn’t considered a starting running back but over time he has proven to be fully capable and a dual threat weapon that gives defenses and opposing fantasy owners alike fits.

Westbrook and Williams’ receiving stats from their first two years are nearly identical (418 and 488 yards respectably), with Williams rushing for around 400 more yards than Westbrook (1,218 compared to 806 yards).

It’s hard to believe that Williams isn’t working as hard as he can on his blocking deficiencies if that’s the major reason the organization is weary of him becoming the starter. He’s only been in the league two years, playing the third down back/speedster with good hands role the entire time. Either he hasn’t had enough solid in game experience to become proficient at it or maybe he was trying to do too much and hit a home run with every carry.

The Panthers have gone 15-17 the past two years and for most of 2007 didn’t have a competent quarterback under center. With the QB not really a threat, defenses had no problems using different blitzing packages to counter-attack the run and rush the passer. Is it that much of a stretch to think that maybe the different combinations of blitzes the Panthers offense faced last year had a tad to do with Williams’ inability to pick them up? Either that, or maybe he didn't really take blocking too seriously in his early years. With age, perhaps he realizes that although he's got the rushing skills, he needs to have the blocking skills as well. I get epiphanies like this every day. There along the lines of realizing I actually need to budget my money and the like, but there epiphanies none-the-less.

Although Williams may have been partially to blame, the offensive line should be taking some heat, especially considering the Panthers QB’s were sacked once every 15.3 plays last season. Assuming Delhomme returns to a healthy form, some solid studying of blitz packages and a better understanding of who to block when under assignment in the backfield, Williams should be just fine. There's no question he has the rushing skills to be successful, at least not in my mind.

Williams has more rushing yards than all but four of the running backs taken in the 2006 NFL Draft and he’s had 50-200 less carries than the top five. He also has the fourth highest receiving yards out of all of the 2006 rookie running backs and considering that everyone who has ahead of him in rushing and reception yards are starters, it’s safe to assume that Williams could be an feature back if he was just given more snaps.

With nearly every team drifting towards a running back by committee, the Panthers already have one set up for the future. If Williams can fix his affinity for blocking, picking up the blitz and getting the occasional injury, the Panthers organization would be crazy not to give him a chance to be the starter out of this young committee.

 
Hopefully that didn't come across that I didn't respect Jonathan Stewart's ability. I just think that if Williams can improve his blocking, the Panthers would be insane not to use some sort of committee with the two.

I'm willing to debate, though.

 
Don't mean to be rude, but you sound like a dynasty owner searching/praying for reasons to keep hanging on. Your post was a good read and you make some valid points.

The writing is CLEARLY on the wall.

1. CAR now views DW as a 3rd down / COP guy (you stated this)

2. More importantly, they burned a FIRST rounder on Stewart - who is more of a typical "feature back" (even though we are seeing a lot of migration to RBBCs)

3. DW couldn't really unseat Foster over the past two years, and while Foster was decent - he's not being mistaken for anything like LT, etc.

4. He reminds me (in not so good ways) of T. Bell / Norwood. A guy who provides occasional flashes of talent w/ a good stat line here and there, but doesn't do enough all around to keep himself on the field.

I was also previously optimistic about DW's chances to become a fringe RB1 in that system (considering CAR had a good running game for several years), but it's just too hard to ignore the present situation and direction CAR looks to be taking. Maybe he just doesn't have that "it" - a burning desire to be "the guy" - and he's happy living off the nice rookie contract he rec'd. Compared to someone like MJD who not only excels @ picking up the blitz, but also shows power, vision and a great all around game - DW isn't (currently) even close.

Maybe I'm wrong and DW learns how to pick up blitzes, and becomes a decent RB1/2 option. But considering that QB Jake D. is coming of major shoulder surgury, I doubt the coaching staff is willing to let him prove that theory in real games - when one missed block could essentially end their season.

 
Don't mean to be rude, but you sound like a dynasty owner searching/praying for reasons to keep hanging on. Your post was a good read and you make some valid points.The writing is CLEARLY on the wall.1. CAR now views DW as a 3rd down / COP guy (you stated this)2. More importantly, they burned a FIRST rounder on Stewart - who is more of a typical "feature back" (even though we are seeing a lot of migration to RBBCs)3. DW couldn't really unseat Foster over the past two years, and while Foster was decent - he's not being mistaken for anything like LT, etc.4. He reminds me (in not so good ways) of T. Bell / Norwood. A guy who provides occasional flashes of talent w/ a good stat line here and there, but doesn't do enough all around to keep himself on the field.I was also previously optimistic about DW's chances to become a fringe RB1 in that system (considering CAR had a good running game for several years), but it's just too hard to ignore the present situation and direction CAR looks to be taking. Maybe he just doesn't have that "it" - a burning desire to be "the guy" - and he's happy living off the nice rookie contract he rec'd. Compared to someone like MJD who not only excels @ picking up the blitz, but also shows power, vision and a great all around game - DW isn't (currently) even close. Maybe I'm wrong and DW learns how to pick up blitzes, and becomes a decent RB1/2 option. But considering that QB Jake D. is coming of major shoulder surgury, I doubt the coaching staff is willing to let him prove that theory in real games - when one missed block could essentially end their season.
You didn't come off as rude at all. In fact, you nearly hit it on the head! I have no problem admitting that I wrote that whole thing mainly because he's been personally connected to me fantasy wise. That's not to mean that I don't believe everything that I said.You make some valid points, especially the one about Delhomme. Putting Williams poor blitz pickup skills and Delhomme's fragile health together actually hadn't occurred to me. That's a very good point. My conscience was probably purposely blocking this from reaching my brain.I suppose most people who argue in favor of Williams goals, at least since the team drafted Jonathan Stewart, is not to prove that he SHOULD start. It's more along the lines of stating what needs to happen for him to do so and then claiming these things aren't that difficult to achieve. He needs to improve his blocking skills. That's a give in. I just can't shake the feeling that he's realized this and will do everything in his power to get better at it -- especially knowing he's so talented. The other side of it from my point of view is that I am very skeptical of rookie anythings. I'm not saying Stewart won't be good -- I've just always found it difficult to digest arguments of a player starting, based off of college and mini-camp performances. I can't wait to dive into the Panthers pre-season games. Although I've essentially given up on Williams on my actual fantasy team, he's still on my radar and I did predict all of last year that he would breakout in 2008. In conclusion: I want to see actual NFL rushes from Stewart as well as how well Williams appears to understand his blocking assignments during the pre-season. I have no problem admitting I'm wrong, I'm wrong all the time, but I'm not going to do so until it's absolutely evident that I'm not correct. And it's funny you mention Norwood -- he was another one of my sleepers until Michael Turner came around. I'm not even going to get started on Michael Turner... that discussion is for another day.
 
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A case against DeAngelo Williams...Stewart's superior ability.
:thumbup: They didn't spend the 13th pick to be part of a committee.
For starters, I agree with this assessment for the most part, but at what point does a team take a RB and have him be part of a committee?22nd? (Dallas - Felix Jones)23rd? (Pittsburgh - Rashard Mendenhall)24th? (Tennessee - Chris Johnson)How about in other seasons?2nd? (New Orleans - Reggie Bush)21st? (New England - Lawrence Maroney)27th? (Carolina - DeAngelo Williams)I'm not sure that there is an exact point to say, "THAT'S the cutoff for being considered a starter vs. a share the workload guy."
 
A case against DeAngelo Williams...Stewart's superior ability.
:goodposting: They didn't spend the 13th pick to be part of a committee.
For starters, I agree with this assessment for the most part, but at what point does a team take a RB and have him be part of a committee?22nd? (Dallas - Felix Jones)23rd? (Pittsburgh - Rashard Mendenhall)24th? (Tennessee - Chris Johnson)How about in other seasons?2nd? (New Orleans - Reggie Bush)21st? (New England - Lawrence Maroney)27th? (Carolina - DeAngelo Williams)I'm not sure that there is an exact point to say, "THAT'S the cutoff for being considered a starter vs. a share the workload guy."
I think Carolina's circumstances are different than the above teams. They used to be a power running team in the Stephen Davis days and I think it's obvious they want to go back to that style with the drafting of Stewart and Otah. Stewart is also built to carry the load, unlike most of this year's RBs. Basically, it was not being the 13th pick by itself that dictated my opinion that Stewart was drafted to carry the load, it was that in combination with the above factors. It was Carolina taking him 13th overall.
 
I'm pretty sure I'm giving up on DW and throwing him back into the draft pool (in favor of Graham in a keep 5 league). The staff obviously has ZERO confidence in him. They didn't play him over Foster, and he was awful. Then they go out and draft a RB in the mold of a guy who carried them to their Superbowl appearance. As long as Stewart isn't getting his QB massacred in pass protection, he's gonna get the bulk of the work. DW is a talented runner, and i think he could be a fantasy factor. But i don't see him as a viable RB1 or 2 in Carolina.

 
A case against DeAngelo Williams...Stewart's superior ability.
:X They didn't spend the 13th pick to be part of a committee.
For starters, I agree with this assessment for the most part, but at what point does a team take a RB and have him be part of a committee?22nd? (Dallas - Felix Jones)23rd? (Pittsburgh - Rashard Mendenhall)24th? (Tennessee - Chris Johnson)How about in other seasons?2nd? (New Orleans - Reggie Bush)21st? (New England - Lawrence Maroney)27th? (Carolina - DeAngelo Williams)I'm not sure that there is an exact point to say, "THAT'S the cutoff for being considered a starter vs. a share the workload guy."
I think Carolina's circumstances are different than the above teams. They used to be a power running team in the Stephen Davis days and I think it's obvious they want to go back to that style with the drafting of Stewart and Otah. Stewart is also built to carry the load, unlike most of this year's RBs. Basically, it was not being the 13th pick by itself that dictated my opinion that Stewart was drafted to carry the load, it was that in combination with the above factors. It was Carolina taking him 13th overall.
Ignoring size, team need, and competition, here are the number of touches for all RB taken in the Top 15 in the salary cap era:Adrian Peterson 238/19Marshawn Lynch 285/18Reggie Bush 155/88Ronnie Brown 207/32Cedric Benson 67/1Cadillac Williams 290/20LaDainian Tomlinson 339/59Jamal Lewis 309/27Thomas Jones 112/32Ron Dayne 228/3Edgerrin James 369/62Ricky Williams 253/28Curtis Enis 133/6Fred Taylor 264/44Warrick Dunn 224/39Lawrence Phillips 193/8Tim Biakabutuka 71/0Eddie George 335/23Ki-Jana Carter 91/22Marshall Faulk 314/52Not arguing anything here, just posting how these guys have done.
 
A case against DeAngelo Williams...Stewart's superior ability.
:blackdot: They didn't spend the 13th pick to be part of a committee.
For starters, I agree with this assessment for the most part, but at what point does a team take a RB and have him be part of a committee?22nd? (Dallas - Felix Jones)23rd? (Pittsburgh - Rashard Mendenhall)24th? (Tennessee - Chris Johnson)How about in other seasons?2nd? (New Orleans - Reggie Bush)21st? (New England - Lawrence Maroney)27th? (Carolina - DeAngelo Williams)I'm not sure that there is an exact point to say, "THAT'S the cutoff for being considered a starter vs. a share the workload guy."
Exactly. Was Carolina intentionally wasting the 27th pick 2 years ago on a committee RB?
 
JGalligan said:
Since the middle of last year, I've been telling anyone who will listen about how 2008 will be DeAngelo Williams' breakout year. I sincerely believed it and still do, but it's gotten progressively harder with each passing month.
A little late to the party. There's already a President of that fan club sir, but we are looking for a new VP. I'll add you to the list. :lol:
 
Everything I have read out of Panthers training camp makes it sound like Williams has improved with his blocking and looks real good running the ball. He is in better shape than he was last year and is impressing everyone. I think everyone is getting a little too excited about Stewart and overlooking Deangelo especially considering John Fox's tenancies to lean towards veteran players. Stewart is also looking really good in camp so I am guessing we will see a 60/40 run distribution with Williams getting the majority of the carries. Also, there are concerns that Stewarts toe is still giving him problems and healing a little slow.

 
JGalligan said:
Word out of Panthers camp is that they’ve more or less given up on him as the starter due to his pass protection issues and view him mainly as a supplementary, third-down back.
Link?I haven't seen anything on this question since camp started.
 
Word out of Panthers camp is that they’ve more or less given up on him as the starter due to his pass protection issues and view him mainly as a supplementary, third-down back.
Link?I haven't seen anything on this question since camp started.
I didn't mean 'camp' in that way. I had actually written the base of this article a while ago, shortly after the draft and updated it to reflect some more current news. I guess I shouldn't have used camp with training camp so fresh in our minds -- I meant camp along the lines of a fight camp -- like as in the Panthers organization. I'll try and find where I read that around draft time if you'd like.
 
July 31, 2008, 01:15

Panthers :: RB

Panthers RB Williams Running Ahead Of RB Stewart On Depth Chart

Steve Reed, Gaston Gazette - [Full Article]

Carolina Panthers running back DeAngelo Williams continues to work ahead of rookie running back Jonathan Stewart with the first-team offense during Training Camp.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

July 2, 2008, 01:55

Panthers :: RB

Panthers RB Williams Improves Pass Blocking Skills

Darin Gantt, Sporting News - [Full Article]

Carolina Panthers running back DeAngelo Williams has reportedly shown substantial improvement in his pass protecting skills this off-season, to the point where the team feels it can trust him in that role.

Thiis is from football guts news

 
July 31, 2008, 01:15 Panthers :: RBPanthers RB Williams Running Ahead Of RB Stewart On Depth ChartSteve Reed, Gaston Gazette - [Full Article]Carolina Panthers running back DeAngelo Williams continues to work ahead of rookie running back Jonathan Stewart with the first-team offense during Training Camp. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------July 2, 2008, 01:55 Panthers :: RBPanthers RB Williams Improves Pass Blocking SkillsDarin Gantt, Sporting News - [Full Article]Carolina Panthers running back DeAngelo Williams has reportedly shown substantial improvement in his pass protecting skills this off-season, to the point where the team feels it can trust him in that role. Thiis is from football guts news
Exactly the kind of media I'm looking for.
 
Since when is 5'9" 217 too small to carry the load?

He's plenty big enough. Carolina might want a bigger back but Williams is definately able.

 
Any homers been to TC? Is this Williams looking better in pass protection talk just talk?
I don't know if he has looked better in pass protection, but he is getting glowing reviews out of camp.Here is a short comment today about him
The most dazzling player has been running back DeAngelo Williams. He reads his blocks beautifully, changes directions instantly and finds room where none appears to exist.
DeAngelo shouldn't be disregarded this year just because Stewart is on board now. He will get plenty of opportunities, and so far he has been making a strong case for himself to be on the field.As for Stewart, reports are that he has looked good in camp thus far, but the Panthers are having him practice on a limited basis due to his toe surgery, which is still healing. Stewart might not play against the Colts this weekend. His practices now are as follows:
Fox said that the rookie running back is being given alternate one-a-days off; he also practices just once when the Panthers go into two-a-day-work on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays
DeAngelo could be a great value pick for people this year.
 
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The best cases to be made for Deangelo Williams are history and reality. According to history, Fox relies on veteran RBs without much regard to draft pedigree. According to reality, many rookie RBs are not yet equipped to handle all of the responsibilities an NFL RB must to remain on the field. I like Stewart, but its awfully hard for mee to ignore these things and assume he's a shoe-in. I have little doubt he'll be great, in time.

 
The best cases to be made for Deangelo Williams are history and reality. According to history, Fox relies on veteran RBs without much regard to draft pedigree. According to reality, many rookie RBs are not yet equipped to handle all of the responsibilities an NFL RB must to remain on the field. I like Stewart, but its awfully hard for mee to ignore these things and assume he's a shoe-in. I have little doubt he'll be great, in time.
The reality is that Fox has never had a RB as talented as Stewart, which affects the history aspect.
 
The best cases to be made for Deangelo Williams are history and reality. According to history, Fox relies on veteran RBs without much regard to draft pedigree. According to reality, many rookie RBs are not yet equipped to handle all of the responsibilities an NFL RB must to remain on the field. I like Stewart, but its awfully hard for mee to ignore these things and assume he's a shoe-in. I have little doubt he'll be great, in time.
The reality is that Fox has never had a RB as talented as Stewart, which affects the history aspect.
That's an opinion. I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but it is an opinion nonetheless.
 
Everything I have read out of Panthers training camp makes it sound like Williams has improved with his blocking and looks real good running the ball. He is in better shape than he was last year and is impressing everyone. I think everyone is getting a little too excited about Stewart and overlooking Deangelo especially considering John Fox's tenancies to lean towards veteran players. Stewart is also looking really good in camp so I am guessing we will see a 60/40 run distribution with Williams getting the majority of the carries. Also, there are concerns that Stewarts toe is still giving him problems and healing a little slow.
This.Where are the links for training camp reports saying that Williams hasn't looked good or that Stewart is getting the first team reps? I've been trying to keep an eye out for them and I haven't found them.

In fact, the blurbs I have seen say the opposite, that Williams HAS improved his pass blocking and may not be the liability he was in the blocking game.

BTW, 217 is not little. Don't confuse short for frail. Go look through rosters and look at how many good RB's are in that 210-220 range. DW is actually thicker than Westbrook when you consider that more weight is packed on a shorter frame. Where's the same size/injury concern for MJD or Felix Jones? There's a tremendous amount of inconsistency on this weight issue.

ETA: I responded before reading the OP's explanation of his use of "camp".

 
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Word out of Panthers camp is that they’ve more or less given up on him as the starter due to his pass protection issues and view him mainly as a supplementary, third-down back.
Link?I haven't seen anything on this question since camp started.
There was never any "word out of Panthers camp" that I ever actually saw in print. It's all been fan/blogger/media speculation based upon Stewart's drafting. Is Stewart's drafting an indication that the Panthers aren't sold on DW? You betch your ### it is. But without meaning any disrespect to the OP, this is a classic case of speculation being repeated enough that it becomes the "conventional wisdom" which then takes on an air of authority that the previous speculation didn't have.

I'm calling it 50-50 that Williams scores more fantasy points than Stewart this season. I have him on my carryover signed at a salary that still allowed me to snatch R.Grant, E.Graham, S.Young & R.Torain in the auction last weekend.

Let his value drop and watch him slide to you in the later rounds. :D

 
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I'm not gonna let these camp rumblings deter me from dropping him (only get 4 keepers). Although i love DeAngelo's talent, i dont believe for a second that Fox and the staff see him as a primary back. If Stewart is healthy and is able to block my grandmother, he's going to have a big role. Deshaun Foster was a useless turd for 2 years and williams couldnt beat him out. I'm not falling for it again.

 
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Not only is Williams plenty big enough, he carried a big load in college and that was one of the reason's Carolina drafted him... because they thought he could handle a big load. That has never been the issue. People think because of his stats, watching him run, and haveing shared in the NFL that Williams is in the weight group of a third down back but he's not. What he is is a back with all kinds of fantasy potential if only he was on the right team. Free agency cant come soon enough for this guy. He's a dynasty bargain right now. Would love to see him end up somewhere like Cincinnati or Cleveland when he does make it there. Maybe he'll get his chance this year but its obvious Carolina wants to involve a heavy bruiser type back in their offense.

 
I'm not gonna let these camp rumblings deter me from dropping him (only get 4 keepers). Although i love DeAngelo's talent, i dont believe for a second that Fox and the staff see him as a primary back. If Stewart is healthy and is able to block my grandmother, he's going to have a big role. Deshaun Foster was a useless turd for 2 years and williams couldnt beat him out. I'm not falling for it again.
You might say the same of Stewart in 2 years , remember that Fox is the coach and he never gives a lot of carries to rookies.When Foster was drafted we all tought wow he will be the starter and put up huge numbers but no , it was Stephen Davis with is 2 YPC average who had most of the carries until injuries ended his carreer . Then Foster got the job and they drafted Williams same thing here Williams plays better then Foster but cant get the job ( Please dont tell me he did nt beat out Foster he was better in every categories but did not get the start ) now Stewart , time will tell .
 
The best cases to be made for Deangelo Williams are history and reality. According to history, Fox relies on veteran RBs without much regard to draft pedigree. According to reality, many rookie RBs are not yet equipped to handle all of the responsibilities an NFL RB must to remain on the field. I like Stewart, but its awfully hard for mee to ignore these things and assume he's a shoe-in. I have little doubt he'll be great, in time.
The reality is that Fox has never had a RB as talented as Stewart, which affects the history aspect.
If Stewart was that talented he would have been picked earlier .
 
Traders2001 said:
TLEF316 said:
I'm not gonna let these camp rumblings deter me from dropping him (only get 4 keepers). Although i love DeAngelo's talent, i dont believe for a second that Fox and the staff see him as a primary back. If Stewart is healthy and is able to block my grandmother, he's going to have a big role. Deshaun Foster was a useless turd for 2 years and williams couldnt beat him out. I'm not falling for it again.
You might say the same of Stewart in 2 years , remember that Fox is the coach and he never gives a lot of carries to rookies.When Foster was drafted we all tought wow he will be the starter and put up huge numbers but no , it was Stephen Davis with is 2 YPC average who had most of the carries until injuries ended his carreer . Then Foster got the job and they drafted Williams same thing here Williams plays better then Foster but cant get the job ( Please dont tell me he did nt beat out Foster he was better in every categories but did not get the start ) now Stewart , time will tell .
Foster didn't carry the load his rookie season because he got injured in the preseason and had microfracture surgery. They weren't sure about his recovery and what his availability would be his 2nd year, so they brought in Davis who was a free agent.
 
Traders2001 said:
When Foster was drafted we all tought wow he will be the starter and put up huge numbers but no , it was Stephen Davis with is 2 YPC average who had most of the carries until injuries ended his carreer . Then Foster got the job and they drafted Williams same thing here Williams plays better then Foster but cant get the job ( Please dont tell me he did nt beat out Foster he was better in every categories but did not get the start ) now Stewart , time will tell .
DeAngelo did not beat out Foster in every catagory last year. Foster was a much better blocker, and short yardage back. Also, when Foster was drafted, he was hurt in the preseason and missed the entire season. The following year Davis was signed while they eased Foster back in, and Davis did great, as did DeShaun in his limited play. The following season Davis and Foster were hurt early in the season and put on IR. The next year it was suspect that Davis was the starter over Foster, but Davis landed on IR anyway, and the Panthers went to the playoffs. The following year Foster started ahead of then rookie Williams which he should have. Last year if you watched the games, there is no way any quarterback would have been able to stand more than a second if DeAngelo had been in there to block.
 
Traders2001 said:
TLEF316 said:
I'm not gonna let these camp rumblings deter me from dropping him (only get 4 keepers). Although i love DeAngelo's talent, i dont believe for a second that Fox and the staff see him as a primary back. If Stewart is healthy and is able to block my grandmother, he's going to have a big role. Deshaun Foster was a useless turd for 2 years and williams couldnt beat him out. I'm not falling for it again.
You might say the same of Stewart in 2 years , remember that Fox is the coach and he never gives a lot of carries to rookies.When Foster was drafted we all tought wow he will be the starter and put up huge numbers but no , it was Stephen Davis with is 2 YPC average who had most of the carries until injuries ended his carreer . Then Foster got the job and they drafted Williams same thing here Williams plays better then Foster but cant get the job ( Please dont tell me he did nt beat out Foster he was better in every categories but did not get the start ) now Stewart , time will tell .
Foster didn't carry the load his rookie season because he got injured in the preseason and had microfracture surgery. They weren't sure about his recovery and what his availability would be his 2nd year, so they brought in Davis who was a free agent.
:kicksrock: The whole Fox favors the veterans is supported by baseless arguments. Even last year Foster was a better NFL RB than Williams. Being an RB involves more than running.
 
Traders2001 said:
When Foster was drafted we all tought wow he will be the starter and put up huge numbers but no , it was Stephen Davis with is 2 YPC average who had most of the carries until injuries ended his carreer . Then Foster got the job and they drafted Williams same thing here Williams plays better then Foster but cant get the job ( Please dont tell me he did nt beat out Foster he was better in every categories but did not get the start ) now Stewart , time will tell .
DeAngelo did not beat out Foster in every catagory last year. Foster was a much better blocker, and short yardage back. Also, when Foster was drafted, he was hurt in the preseason and missed the entire season. The following year Davis was signed while they eased Foster back in, and Davis did great, as did DeShaun in his limited play. The following season Davis and Foster were hurt early in the season and put on IR. The next year it was suspect that Davis was the starter over Foster, but Davis landed on IR anyway, and the Panthers went to the playoffs. The following year Foster started ahead of then rookie Williams which he should have. Last year if you watched the games, there is no way any quarterback would have been able to stand more than a second if DeAngelo had been in there to block.
I don't think it mattered who was in there blocking last year...Foster or DW.IMO, Foster's frequent injuries have caused many of us to underrate his talent. Carolina took him 34th overall. When Foster was averaging more ypc than Davis with fewer carries, some said Foster was a bust because he couldn't beat out Davis while others said he was a talent just waiting to explode. And what was said about Foster and DW when DW was drafted at 27? And now what is being said about DW and Stewart?I find it a bit ironic that people downplay both Foster and DW with the benefit of hindsight, forgetting what was said about these fellows when they were drafted, yet jump on the Stewart bandwagon without a second thought.
 
:bowtie: The whole Fox favors the veterans is supported by baseless arguments. Even last year Foster was a better NFL RB than Williams. Being an RB involves more than running.
Not baseless at all. The "other things" RB's in the NFL have to do other than running are things that veterens often do better than rookies based simply on experience if nothing more.At this point we don't have the foggiest who is better at blocking, receiving, making pre-snap reads, etc. between Stewart and Williams.
 
simey said:
AnonymousBob said:
Any homers been to TC? Is this Williams looking better in pass protection talk just talk?
I don't know if he has looked better in pass protection, but he is getting glowing reviews out of camp.Here is a short comment today about him
The most dazzling player has been running back DeAngelo Williams. He reads his blocks beautifully, changes directions instantly and finds room where none appears to exist.
DeAngelo shouldn't be disregarded this year just because Stewart is on board now. He will get plenty of opportunities, and so far he has been making a strong case for himself to be on the field.As for Stewart, reports are that he has looked good in camp thus far, but the Panthers are having him practice on a limited basis due to his toe surgery, which is still healing. Stewart might not play against the Colts this weekend. His practices now are as follows:
Fox said that the rookie running back is being given alternate one-a-days off; he also practices just once when the Panthers go into two-a-day-work on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays
DeAngelo could be a great value pick for people this year.
Thanks for the info simey.
 
switz said:
A case of what for DeAngelo Williams? I think I'd trade him for a case of Guinness. :thumbup:
That Switz is Priceless and in Good taste. Hell for a case of Guinness I Might Trade LT to someone, its that good.
 
DeAngelo needs to get off to a fast start. Unfortunately his opponents the 1st 3 weeks aren't easy and include Minnesota.

 
Jonathan Stewart (toe) still has not practiced in 11-on-11 drills in training camp.

The rookie says he still has discomfort in his toe, which was surgically repaired nearly five months ago. Stewart will be a game-time decision for Saturday's preseason opener, although he seems very unlikely play. It's concerning because toe injuries are unpredictable. Make sure that Stewart is practicing full speed by the end of the month.

looking good for DW

 
More juicy DeAngelo info:

The Rock Hill Herald reports Carolina Panthers OC Jeff Davidson said he's been impressed with RB DeAngelo Williams' approach all offseason. "One thing that we noticed right away, and it started even before we went on break a little bit, was that he was taking a more active approach in the leadership of our team," Davidson said. "And it's very evident now. I don't mean to make this sound like he was immature, but he's really grown up, and I think he's become a major player on our offense. And I mean that in every regard, because we use him on and off the field. He helps the young guys as well. I couldn't answer that exactly, how it transpired, other than the fact we've seen it. It's obvious in his approach to the game. One thing is, it may be more important to him. Maybe he sees the light that it is his job. We have a number of guys that can play, and I'm excited about the way he's come in and the approach he's taken to the game."

Or just Super duper heavy duty fluff.

 
Any homers been to TC? Is this Williams looking better in pass protection talk just talk?
Was there this past week. He's looking pretty good. Granted, I didn't see a lot of him last year since I was out of the area, but he appears to be "getting it". Local sports talk radio is also supporting my observations. I don't think there is any question that they drafted Stewart to be "the guy", but I think they'd be very happy working him in slowly and not dumping it all on him at once. With Williams' improvement, they can do just that.
 
When Foster was drafted we all tought wow he will be the starter and put up huge numbers but no , it was Stephen Davis with is 2 YPC average who had most of the carries until injuries ended his carreer . Then Foster got the job and they drafted Williams same thing here Williams plays better then Foster but cant get the job ( Please dont tell me he did nt beat out Foster he was better in every categories but did not get the start ) now Stewart , time will tell .
DeAngelo did not beat out Foster in every catagory last year. Foster was a much better blocker, and short yardage back. Also, when Foster was drafted, he was hurt in the preseason and missed the entire season. The following year Davis was signed while they eased Foster back in, and Davis did great, as did DeShaun in his limited play. The following season Davis and Foster were hurt early in the season and put on IR. The next year it was suspect that Davis was the starter over Foster, but Davis landed on IR anyway, and the Panthers went to the playoffs. The following year Foster started ahead of then rookie Williams which he should have. Last year if you watched the games, there is no way any quarterback would have been able to stand more than a second if DeAngelo had been in there to block.
I don't think it mattered who was in there blocking last year...Foster or DW.IMO, Foster's frequent injuries have caused many of us to underrate his talent. Carolina took him 34th overall. When Foster was averaging more ypc than Davis with fewer carries, some said Foster was a bust because he couldn't beat out Davis while others said he was a talent just waiting to explode. And what was said about Foster and DW when DW was drafted at 27? And now what is being said about DW and Stewart?I find it a bit ironic that people downplay both Foster and DW with the benefit of hindsight, forgetting what was said about these fellows when they were drafted, yet jump on the Stewart bandwagon without a second thought.
Had Foster been healthy or at least had better blocking, people would be thinking a LOT higher of him. The reason NFL scouts overvalue taller backs while shorter backs tend to be better fantasy players is pass protection. Taller players have longer arms and bigger hands which helps them block. The shorter backs tend to have a harder time blocking and are more likely to run a pass route which is good for fantasy value. Its shouldnt surprise anyone that at 5'9", Williams has struggled with pass blocking. Yet his fantasy potential is huge. Some coaching staffs give more favor to each type of back than others. Williams is going to put up some good numbers someday but he might have to get out of Carolina to make it happen.
 

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