Chipper Jones (1 Viewer)

Dude can just flat out hit, always has, but he is hitting .418 on June 6.

Jones' 400th puts him in elite company. The only switch-hitters with more homers than Jones are Mickey Mantle (536) and Eddie Murray (504).

With his homer Thursday, Jones became just the fourth active player to have a career average of at least .300, hit 400 or more homers and record at least 1,300 RBIs. Frank Thomas, Alex Rodriguez and Manny Ramirez are the others.

Obviously, health will determine whether or not he gets to 500 HRs but he certainly has a decent chance.

This is the way baseball should be -- you draft a guy, bring him along, and he plays his entire career with the same team.

We have done this numerous times and the answer is yes.

I swear to God....The guy is unbelieveable.

I have said it before I will say it again....Greatest 3B of all time.

I know I am young and I didnt see Mike Schmidt, and maybe I am a blind homer, but the guy has been rock solid and by rock solid I mean elite for the last 12 years or so. And he is as clutch as they come this side of Big Papi and Reggie Jackson.

derek245583 said:

I have said it before I will say it again....Greatest 3B of all time.I know I am young and I didnt see Mike Schmidt, and maybe I am a blind homer, but the guy has been rock solid and by rock solid I mean elite for the last 12 years or so. And he is as clutch as they come this side of Big Papi and Reggie Jackson.

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Cases for Schmidt being 'Greatest', a phrase I really dislike because people don't really know what it means. It is so much more than stats.-Schmidt was MVP 4 times. Jones has won it 1 time. Schmidt hit 586 home runs which Jones will not reach. Jones plays in the steroid era, Schmidt did not.

The Man With No Name said:

derek245583 said:

I have said it before I will say it again....Greatest 3B of all time.I know I am young and I didnt see Mike Schmidt, and maybe I am a blind homer, but the guy has been rock solid and by rock solid I mean elite for the last 12 years or so. And he is as clutch as they come this side of Big Papi and Reggie Jackson.

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Cases for Schmidt being 'Greatest', a phrase I really dislike because people don't really know what it means. It is so much more than stats.-Schmidt was MVP 4 times. Jones has won it 1 time. Schmidt hit 586 home runs which Jones will not reach. Jones plays in the steroid era, Schmidt did not.

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I posted something a long time ago about it and if I have time Ill compare and contrast again...I know the stats might be skewed cause of the "steriod era" but the stats are all I have to go by becuase I never saw Schmidt. I saw Chipper and I love what I see.Gimme some time.

The Man With No Name said:

derek245583 said:

I have said it before I will say it again....Greatest 3B of all time.I know I am young and I didnt see Mike Schmidt, and maybe I am a blind homer, but the guy has been rock solid and by rock solid I mean elite for the last 12 years or so. And he is as clutch as they come this side of Big Papi and Reggie Jackson.

Click to expand...

Cases for Schmidt being 'Greatest', a phrase I really dislike because people don't really know what it means. It is so much more than stats.-Schmidt was MVP 4 times. Jones has won it 1 time. Schmidt hit 586 home runs which Jones will not reach. Jones plays in the steroid era, Schmidt did not.

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And Chipper is playing alongside Pujols, Rollins, Wright, etc., so the competition for MVP is a little stronger.Let's look at the stats:Games: Mike Schmidt 2404 to Chipper Jones 1951 (diff of 453 or about 19% less)Runs: MS 1506 to CJ 1339 (Chipper can catch him easily) (11%less)Hits: MS 2234 to CJ 2206 (Chipper almost even in 453 less games)HR: MS 548 to 400Doubles: MS 408 to 436 (this counts for a lot. More doubles in 19% less games)RBI: MS 1595 to 1338 (Chipper will definitely catch him) (only 16% less)AVG: MS .267 to CJ .310 -- give me a breakSLG: MS .527 to CJ .550 -- that puts a much different spin on it, huh?OBP: MS .380 to CJ .406Fielding: MS .961 to .957, virtually identicalObservations:-- Schmidt played longer but Chipper isn't finished-- Schmidt hit more homers, Chipper had more hits and doubles-- Their pace is roughly the same for total numbers-- Chipper is way ahead (in productivity %) of Schmidt in ALL categories except HR-- Chipper is a switch hitterI'll take 43 points higher on avg and more doubles over just HR any day.

Weapon of Mass Instruction said:

The Man With No Name said:

derek245583 said:

I have said it before I will say it again....Greatest 3B of all time.

I know I am young and I didnt see Mike Schmidt, and maybe I am a blind homer, but the guy has been rock solid and by rock solid I mean elite for the last 12 years or so. And he is as clutch as they come this side of Big Papi and Reggie Jackson.

Click to expand...

Cases for Schmidt being 'Greatest', a phrase I really dislike because people don't really know what it means. It is so much more than stats.-Schmidt was MVP 4 times. Jones has won it 1 time. Schmidt hit 586 home runs which Jones will not reach. Jones plays in the steroid era, Schmidt did not.

Click to expand...

And Chipper is playing alongside Pujols, Rollins, Wright, etc., so the competition for MVP is a little stronger.Let's look at the stats:

Games: Mike Schmidt 2404 to Chipper Jones 1951 (diff of 453 or about 19% less)

Runs: MS 1506 to CJ 1339 (Chipper can catch him easily) (11%less)

Hits: MS 2234 to CJ 2206 (Chipper almost even in 453 less games)

HR: MS 548 to 400

Doubles: MS 408 to 436 (this counts for a lot. More doubles in 19% less games)

RBI: MS 1595 to 1338 (Chipper will definitely catch him) (only 16% less)

AVG: MS .267 to CJ .310 -- give me a break

SLG: MS .527 to CJ .550 -- that puts a much different spin on it, huh?

OBP: MS .380 to CJ .406

Fielding: MS .961 to .957, virtually identical

Observations:

-- Schmidt played longer but Chipper isn't finished

-- Schmidt hit more homers, Chipper had more hits and doubles

-- Their pace is roughly the same for total numbers

-- Chipper is way ahead (in productivity %) of Schmidt in ALL categories except HR

-- Chipper is a switch hitter

I'll take 43 points higher on avg and more doubles over just HR any day.

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Will you also ignore that Schmidt played in one of the most pitcher friendly eras, while Chipper played in the most offensive friendly era ever (although the mid-late '30s are in the running)?Or Schmidts defense?

Baseball, without adjusting for context, is impossible to judge cross-era, and that is just what you seem to be doing. According to their PEERS:

Career OPS+ (adjusts for park and era, one of if not the best single OBJECTIVE judge of a player, although no one number tells the full story):

Chipper: 145

Schmidt: 147

Remember, Chipper does not have any decline years and assuming he plays 3-4 more years, that number will likely lower some, especially if he falls of the old man cliff like most ballplayers do.

MVPs:

Chipper: 1

Schmidt: 3

Top 5 MVPs:

Chipper: 2

Schmidt 5 (twice 6th)

All Star Appearances:

Chipper: 5

Schmidt:

HR Crowns:

Chipper: 0

Schmidt: 8

Times Leading League in SLG:

Chipper: 0

Schmidt: 5 (9 times in the top three!!! The doubles vs. HR arguements utterly folds when you consider the eras in which they each played)

Times leading league in OPS+

Chipper: 1

Schmidt: 6

Gold Gloves:

Chipper: 0

Schmidt: 11 (and often considered one of the top 3 defensive 3B ever)

Hall of Fame Measures:

Chipper:

Black Ink: Batting - 7

Gray Ink: Batting - 113

HOF Standards: Batting - 60.0

HOF Monitor: Batting - 156.5

Schmidt:

Black Ink: Batting - 74

Gray Ink: Batting - 224

HOF Standards: Batting - 55.7

HOF Monitor: Batting - 249.5

Chipper - very-very good player and an even better all around OFFENSIVE player for a consistent, extended period.

Schmidt - The greatest third baseman ever. KILLS chipper in power numbers and era adjusted Slugging years as an offensive juggarnaut. Did we mention 11 GG to 0? Im not a huge fan of GGs as a measure (um, Palmiero at 1B anyone?) - but that is very indicative of one of the greatest vs. an average defensive 3B in Chipper.

Oh one more thing:

HOF Debate:

Chipper - Some, though he should and likely will get in.

Schmidt - Zero. None. Nada. Zippo.

Weapon of Mass Instruction said:

And Chipper is playing alongside Pujols, Rollins, Wright, etc., so the competition for MVP is a little stronger.

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Pujols, ok. Rollins is a very nice player, but he is not close to HoF material. Wright is very very young, and terribly overated defensively. Had chipper finished #2 a couple times, I could at least see some arguement - Schmidt was the best slugger of his entire Era.

Koya said:

Schmidt - The greatest third baseman ever. KILLS chipper in power numbers and era adjusted Slugging years as an offensive juggarnaut. Did we mention 11 GG to 0? Im not a huge fan of GGs as a measure (um, Palmiero at 1B anyone?) - but that is very indicative of one of the greatest vs. an average defensive 3B in Chipper.

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Fielding % is virtually identical.

Weapon of Mass Instruction said:

Koya said:

Schmidt - The greatest third baseman ever. KILLS chipper in power numbers and era adjusted Slugging years as an offensive juggarnaut. Did we mention 11 GG to 0? Im not a huge fan of GGs as a measure (um, Palmiero at 1B anyone?) - but that is very indicative of one of the greatest vs. an average defensive 3B in Chipper.

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Fielding % is virtually identical.

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FP is only based on chances and errors and isn't a very good measure of fielding performance. Range Factor isn't perfect either but it does provide an indication of why Schmidt has ten Gold Gloves to Jones' zero. Chipper's RF9 at 3B is consistently below league average while Schmidt was almost always among the league leaders.I agree Chipper is a Hall of Famer but it's not because of his defense. To be considered as the GOAT at a position, a player should be great at the plate and with the glove.

I remember fearing Chipper as a rookie when I was rooting against the Braves in the playoffs...and he seemed to ALWAYS do something his team needed.

I also remember him coming out of Jax...was a he!! of a wide receiver.

Also met his ex-highschool girlfriend...who he talked marriage with then unceremoniously dumped once he became famous. She wasn't bitter or anything...

Buy, Sell or Hold?