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2009 Prospect: WR, Michael Crabtree (Texas Tech) (1 Viewer)

offdee

offdee

Footballguy
Some good talk here about Chris Wells (Ohio St.), the expected top RB prospect for the NFL Draft next year...

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...c=405222&hl

Let's get some thoughts about the expected top WR prospect, Michael Crabtree (Texas Tech)

- Pros

- Cons

- what present NFL player's style does he remind you of?

- how do you expect him to perform at the next level?

- where would you rank him in future FF expectations compared to the recent highly touted young WR's (Fitz, Braylon, AJ, Calvin, Bowe, Santonio, etc.)?

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- Redshirt Sophomore (will be eligible for NFL Draft after this season)

- 2007 stats; 134 rec, 1,962 yds (14.6 avg), 22 TD's

- 6'3", 208 lbs

- 2007 first team All-American

- 2007 Biletnikoff and Paul Warfield Awards (given to the nation's top college receiver)

Video highlights:

 
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I discount all of the #'s that come from Texas Tech's passing offense. Otherwise, we'd be discussing the draft merits of Sonny Cumbie, or some such.

Watching that clip, he seems not at all fast to me. He didn't seem to run away from anybody in those highlights, except the one time he got in behind the defense on a full blitz... vs. RICE.

He looks to be fairly strong, but otherwise color me unimpressed.

 
pinequick said:
I discount all of the #'s that come from Texas Tech's passing offense. Otherwise, we'd be discussing the draft merits of Sonny Cumbie, or some such.Watching that clip, he seems not at all fast to me. He didn't seem to run away from anybody in those highlights, except the one time he got in behind the defense on a full blitz... vs. RICE.He looks to be fairly strong, but otherwise color me unimpressed.
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Posted a 2nd video in the original post to check out. Seems to be running away from quite a few people in a bunch of those highlights.And the catch at 1:45 is SICK.
 
I don't think Crabtree is supposed to be a blazer, I'm pretty sure he's a 4.5 guy, possibly high 4.4's.

 
offdee said:
Some good talk here about Chris Wells (Ohio St.), the expected top RB prospect for the NFL Draft next year...

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...c=405222&hl

Let's get some thoughts about the expected top WR prospect, Michael Crabtree (Texas Tech)

- Pros

- Cons
Click to expand...
Positive: Ball skills. Hands. Athletic ability. Size. Strength. Quicks. Production.Negative: Speed is adequate, but not great. Won't beat many NFL corners in a footrace.

- what present NFL player's style does he remind you of?
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I've said before that he's kind of like a hybrid of Fitzgerald and Boldin. He doesn't have Boldin's raw power, but he has the same type of athleticism and yards after the catch skills. His hands and jump ball skills are comparable to Fitzgerald's. I think he's gonna be a good one.
- how do you expect him to perform at the next level?
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He's a can't-miss prospect. I expect multiple 1,000 receiving seasons. He may never be a true stud, but he should at least become a Moulds type. His ceiling is in the elite range.
- where would you rank him in future FF expectations compared to the recent highly touted young WR's (Fitz, Braylon, AJ, Calvin, Bowe, Santonio, etc.)?

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He's in the Fitz/Rogers/Calvin range. I like him more than I liked Braylon at this stage of their careers. Right now I have him ranked as the top FF prospect for the 2009 draft, although there will inevitably be some first round RB's who figure into the top 3-4 mix.

 
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Penguin said:
I don't think Crabtree is supposed to be a blazer, I'm pretty sure he's a 4.5 guy, possibly high 4.4's.
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Very true. Not blazing but adequate enough speed IMO.I believe it was EBF in another past thread who said that he saw him as a hybrid between Fitz and Boldin...

Not as great of hands and ball control as Fitz, but better after the catch ability

Not as great of after the catch ability as Boldin, but better hands and ball control

I agree.

-----

Edit to add...speak of the devil. I was a little late to get in before EBF posted.

 
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I dont know much about Crabtree. But Ive seen enough of him to really be looking forward to watching him play on Sundays. He looks like a Sterling Sharpe/Michael Irvin type. Strong, good hands and a playmaker. Should be a top 10 pick without question.

 
Another little tidbit of knowledge...

Crabtree was a high school QB so has only been playing the WR position for 2 years so is still very raw....scary thought for DB's that he's just learning the nuances of the position.

 
pinequick said:
I discount all of the #'s that come from Texas Tech's passing offense. Otherwise, we'd be discussing the draft merits of Sonny Cumbie, or some such.Watching that clip, he seems not at all fast to me. He didn't seem to run away from anybody in those highlights, except the one time he got in behind the defense on a full blitz... vs. RICE.He looks to be fairly strong, but otherwise color me unimpressed.
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Yes, discount the numbers, because they throw the ball 50 - 70 times a game. However, you would be foolish to discount the HS WR talent that beats down the door to go there. Further, when it comes to evaluating WRs, speed and seperation ability aren't necessarily the same thing and seperation is the key. IMO, Crabtree is an absolute beast. As a Texas fan, Crabtree struck fear in me each time Tech threw the ball to him last year. If Graham Harrell were a better QB (he's not that good), Crabtree's numbers would have been even more astronomical.
 
He's the real deal.

I've heard television game broadcasters make the same observation time and time again. "On the field, he looks like a man amongst boys," and they aren't the same broadcasters. Much the same way Randy Moss was at Marshall.

In no way am I comparing him to Moss, however.

He reminds me more of Brandon Marshall.

 
pinequick said:
I discount all of the #'s that come from Texas Tech's passing offense.
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Discounting the numbers would be wise, discounting Crabtree would not - he's not your typical TT WR. I was big on this kid before last season and was irrate when he was picked up two picks before me in my college fantasy draft. I didn't expect what he did but I wasn't shocked either. Kid's got it all, if I were to get my hands on any #1 picks in 09 rookie drafts I will strongly consider picking Crabtree. I am very confident he is a future PPR WR1, non PPR maybe not but none of my dyno's are non PPR anyway.
 
pinequick said:
I discount all of the #'s that come from Texas Tech's passing offense. Otherwise, we'd be discussing the draft merits of Sonny Cumbie, or some such.
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Texas Tech has produced some ridiculous QB numbers but, because there are so many receivers active on every play, the WRs don't generally rack up ridiculous stats.Except for Crabtree, that is. Here are the top receiving seasons of the Leach era:
Code: 
+------------------+------+------+-------+-------+| name			 | year | rec  | recyd | rectd |+------------------+------+------+-------+-------+| Michael Crabtree | 2007 | 126  | 1817  | 19	|| Joel Filani	  | 2006 | 91   | 1300  | 13	|| Carlos Francis   | 2003 | 75   | 1177  | 9	 || Jarrett Hicks	| 2004 | 76   | 1177  | 13	|| Danny Amendola   | 2007 | 105  | 1174  | 6	 || Wes Welker	   | 2003 | 97   | 1099  | 9	 || Nehemiah Glover  | 2003 | 77   | 1081  | 9	 || Wes Welker	   | 2002 | 86   | 1054  | 7	 || Joel Filani	  | 2005 | 65   | 1048  | 8	 || Trey Haverty	 | 2004 | 77   | 1019  | 6	 || Mickey Peters	| 2003 | 78   | 975   | 12	|| Robert Johnson   | 2005 | 67   | 951   | 4	 || Robert Johnson   | 2006 | 89   | 871   | 11	|| Jarrett Hicks	| 2005 | 65   | 850   | 10	|| Tim Baker		| 2000 | 68   | 759   | 7	 || Mickey Peters	| 2002 | 64   | 749   | 8	 || Eric Morris	  | 2007 | 73   | 725   | 8	 || Carlos Francis   | 2001 | 50   | 703   | 3	 || Nehemiah Glover  | 2002 | 52   | 673   | 10	|| Nehemiah Glover  | 2004 | 62   | 660   | 1	 |+------------------+------+------+-------+-------+
I've only watched a little bit of him and don't have a whole lot to add to what EBF and offdee have said, but statistically, Crabtree is definitely not just doing the usual Texas Tech thing.
 
Doug Drinen said:
pinequick said:
I discount all of the #'s that come from Texas Tech's passing offense. Otherwise, we'd be discussing the draft merits of Sonny Cumbie, or some such.
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Texas Tech has produced some ridiculous QB numbers but, because there are so many receivers active on every play, the WRs don't generally rack up ridiculous stats.Except for Crabtree, that is. Here are the top receiving seasons of the Leach era:
Code: 
+------------------+------+------+-------+-------+| name			 | year | rec  | recyd | rectd |+------------------+------+------+-------+-------+| Michael Crabtree | 2007 | 126  | 1817  | 19	|| Joel Filani	  | 2006 | 91   | 1300  | 13	|| Carlos Francis   | 2003 | 75   | 1177  | 9	 || Jarrett Hicks	| 2004 | 76   | 1177  | 13	|| Danny Amendola   | 2007 | 105  | 1174  | 6	 || Wes Welker	   | 2003 | 97   | 1099  | 9	 || Nehemiah Glover  | 2003 | 77   | 1081  | 9	 || Wes Welker	   | 2002 | 86   | 1054  | 7	 || Joel Filani	  | 2005 | 65   | 1048  | 8	 || Trey Haverty	 | 2004 | 77   | 1019  | 6	 || Mickey Peters	| 2003 | 78   | 975   | 12	|| Robert Johnson   | 2005 | 67   | 951   | 4	 || Robert Johnson   | 2006 | 89   | 871   | 11	|| Jarrett Hicks	| 2005 | 65   | 850   | 10	|| Tim Baker		| 2000 | 68   | 759   | 7	 || Mickey Peters	| 2002 | 64   | 749   | 8	 || Eric Morris	  | 2007 | 73   | 725   | 8	 || Carlos Francis   | 2001 | 50   | 703   | 3	 || Nehemiah Glover  | 2002 | 52   | 673   | 10	|| Nehemiah Glover  | 2004 | 62   | 660   | 1	 |+------------------+------+------+-------+-------+
I've only watched a little bit of him and don't have a whole lot to add to what EBF and offdee have said, but statistically, Crabtree is definitely not just doing the usual Texas Tech thing.
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:lmao: TT throws a helluva lot, but they usually mixed it up, partly because they didn't have a WR that could dominate like this. I don't see a future Fitzgerald here, but I do see a darn fine WR1 for a team lucky enough to get him, and a WR2 at worst in FF. If next year didn't have some nice RBs, he'd be the top dog for dynasty leagues.
 
O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D.......Let me see him do something outside of that gimmicky offense first, then we'll see if this guy is legit. At this point, I'm not impressed.......

 
kremenull said:
O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D.......Let me see him do something outside of that gimmicky offense first, then we'll see if this guy is legit. At this point, I'm not impressed.......
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:thumbup: It baffles me that there are really people who think Crabtree is just the product of a system.
 
Another important fact -

I played with Texas Tech on NCAA Football 2009 and took it to the HOUSE with him against my friend.

 
Reminds me of Fitz. Very little not to like with only minor concerns about his college system. Can't miss prospect.

 
Lots of good stuff here already... exceptional hands, body control, and toughness. By far the best wideout in college right now. I'll be surprised if he's not in the NFL next year.

 
Sigmund Bloom said:
Lots of good stuff here already... exceptional hands, body control, and toughness. By far the best wideout in college right now. I'll be surprised if he's not in the NFL next year.
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:thumbup: I'm gonna go with Bloom on this one, to me he looks heads and shoulders above everyone else at this point. The Tech system has to be factored in casting judgment still the measurables, ball skills, toughness and crisp enough route running to be a top flight prospect. Personally I think 40 speed is vastly overrated and if he runs a 4.5 it's enough for me.Now let's se where he ends up, that will be the deciding factor of future success.To me he looks close to the skills of Larry Fitzgerald and that'll do...If anyone skips him cuz of his Texas Tech background I'd just love that if I'm in the same draft.
 
PlasmaDogPlasma said:
kremenull said:
O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D.......Let me see him do something outside of that gimmicky offense first, then we'll see if this guy is legit. At this point, I'm not impressed.......
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Did you say the same thing about Wes Welker?
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No. I DRAFTED him in an early dynasty draft last year (May '07)........But I will say this, what did Welker do in Miami?....... :popcorn: Systems mean a lot, I would conclude. Welker is nowhere near a premier talent, but he sure is utlized extremely well in N.E. I'm not saying that Crabtree doesn't have talent, but he is overrated compared to other WRs in college due to his off-the-chart production and not based on skill set. Maclin is fabulous, a special talent who glides across the field, and I would rank Heyward-Bey well ahead of Crabtree. DHB leaves corners in the dust, gets great separation and is a pretty good route-runner already. All Crabtree does is run is a bunch of quick screens and a few fade routes. I need to see more before he gets a stamp.Again, :lol: .....i.e., wait and see.
 
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Just to add further, Crabtree played injured in the bowl game that I caught against Virginia. He had ankle issues I believe it was , hobbled and nowhere near his usual self. And he still had a large hand in that win. He showed me in that game alone that he's tough enough and competitive enough to thrive at the next level. Sure he had a great season, but just look at those #s he put up in his last 3 games vs. Texas, Oklahoma and in the Gator Bowl. Its a little ridiculous for a seasoned player, let alone a 1st year player. Man amongst boys? To this point, Id say so.

 
kremenull said:
PlasmaDogPlasma said:
kremenull said:
O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D.......Let me see him do something outside of that gimmicky offense first, then we'll see if this guy is legit. At this point, I'm not impressed.......
Click to expand...
Did you say the same thing about Wes Welker?
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No. I DRAFTED him in an early dynasty draft last year (May '07)........But I will say this, what did Welker do in Miami?....... :shrug: Systems mean a lot, I would conclude. Welker is nowhere near a premier talent, but he sure is utlized extremely well in N.E. I'm not saying that Crabtree doesn't have talent, but he is overrated compared to other WRs in college due to his off-the-chart production and not based on skill set. Maclin is fabulous, a special talent who glides across the field, and I would rank Heyward-Bey well ahead of Crabtree. DHB leaves corners in the dust, gets great separation and is a pretty good route-runner already. All Crabtree does is run is a bunch of quick screens and a few fade routes. I need to see more before he gets a stamp.

Again, :rolleyes: .....i.e., wait and see.
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What did Welker do in Miami? Well, in 2006, he caught 67 receptions for 687 yards in a bad offense, and netted over 2,000 yards total. In short, he did enough to make one of the better franchises trade a high pick for him.

System will make a difference, as it does with all WRs, but Crabtree is almost a sure-bet to have a decent career, with top upside.

 
Comparing Crabtree to the previous Tech receivers is like comparing Clinton Portis to Olandis Gary.

Just because someone plays in a friendly system doesn't mean he isn't a great player.

 
EBF said:
kremenull said:
O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D.......Let me see him do something outside of that gimmicky offense first, then we'll see if this guy is legit. At this point, I'm not impressed.......
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:moneybag: It baffles me that there are really people who think Crabtree is just the product of a system.
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Crabtree is a total college stud. He should be a stud in the NFL also. It's up to him whether he wants to excel or not. The only thing that will stop him is Michael Crabtree.Also, I have absolutely no shot at getting this guy in our 2009 dynasty draft.
 
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FavreCo said:
EBF said:
kremenull said:
O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D.......Let me see him do something outside of that gimmicky offense first, then we'll see if this guy is legit. At this point, I'm not impressed.......
Click to expand...
:excited: It baffles me that there are really people who think Crabtree is just the product of a system.
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Crabtree is a total college stud. He should be a stud in the NFL also. It's up to him whether he wants to excel or not. The only thing that will stop him is Michael Crabtree.

Also, I have absolutely no shot at getting this guy in our 2009 dynasty draft.
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Acquire picks!I've been targetting picks in the 4-8 range, as these teams generally believe they can compete now and sell their 1sts cheaper than the bottom teams - unless those bottom teams are just poorly managed. With a few top talented RBs - Moreno, Wells, Lucky, Davis, Hill, and others, and then a couple QBs like Tebow and Stafford (and, I think Daniel, but he is somewhat short), then Maclin and Heyward-Bey, I highly doubt Crabtree goes higher than that range.

 
EBF said:
Comparing Crabtree to the previous Tech receivers is like comparing Clinton Portis to Olandis Gary.

Just because someone plays in a friendly system doesn't mean he isn't a great player.
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I'm so glad this was said. Way too often I see bad comparisons made like this. Watching Crabtree is fun, and he'll almost certainly tear up the NFL. Good Crabtree discussion can be found here:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...abtree&st=0

 
Looks to be a solid pro, but NOT elite in the pro game. Speed is average and as mentioned won't beat many CB's in a foot race. Reminds me of Housh.

 
FUBAR said:
FavreCo said:
EBF said:
kremenull said:
O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D.......Let me see him do something outside of that gimmicky offense first, then we'll see if this guy is legit. At this point, I'm not impressed.......
Click to expand...
:shrug: It baffles me that there are really people who think Crabtree is just the product of a system.
Click to expand...
Crabtree is a total college stud. He should be a stud in the NFL also. It's up to him whether he wants to excel or not. The only thing that will stop him is Michael Crabtree.

Also, I have absolutely no shot at getting this guy in our 2009 dynasty draft.
Click to expand...
Acquire picks!I've been targetting picks in the 4-8 range, as these teams generally believe they can compete now and sell their 1sts cheaper than the bottom teams - unless those bottom teams are just poorly managed. With a few top talented RBs - Moreno, Wells, Lucky, Davis, Hill, and others, and then a couple QBs like Tebow and Stafford (and, I think Daniel, but he is somewhat short), then Maclin and Heyward-Bey, I highly doubt Crabtree goes higher than that range.
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It really depends on the format. In a PPR he'll probably be a top 2-3 pick. I would take him at 1.01 today if I had to draft right now.That said, teams will usually take an average first round RB over a great first round WR, so he might slip to 3-5 in RB leagues. Anything lower than that would surprise me.

I agree with your general point though. If you want him on your team, you'll have to stockpile 2009 rookie picks.

 
He's in the Fitz/Rogers/Calvin range. I like him more than I liked Braylon at this stage of their careers.

Right now I have him ranked as the top FF prospect for the 2009 draft, although there will inevitably be some first round RB's who figure into the top 3-4 mix.
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Now this is ridiculous. This guy is nowhere near Calvin as a prospect, nor is he anywhere near as polished at the same stage as Fitz.....Rogers and Braylon, I'll give you those at a comparable stage......We'll see if he can match Braylon in the pros.....doubtful

 
kremenull said:
He's in the Fitz/Rogers/Calvin range. I like him more than I liked Braylon at this stage of their careers.

Right now I have him ranked as the top FF prospect for the 2009 draft, although there will inevitably be some first round RB's who figure into the top 3-4 mix.
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Now this is ridiculous. This guy is nowhere near Calvin as a prospect, nor is he anywhere near as polished at the same stage as Fitz.....Rogers and Braylon, I'll give you those at a comparable stage......We'll see if he can match Braylon in the pros.....doubtful
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I think Braylon Edwards is a great comparison actually.Braylon: 6'3", 210lbs, ran 4.48 forty

Crabtree: 6'3", 208lbs, expected to run in 4.45-4.50 forty range

Both have comparable (and excellent) hands, body control and ball skills. But, I'd give the edge to Crabtree in his run after the catch ability.

 
EBF said:
FUBAR said:
FavreCo said:
EBF said:
kremenull said:
O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D.......Let me see him do something outside of that gimmicky offense first, then we'll see if this guy is legit. At this point, I'm not impressed.......
Click to expand...
:confused: It baffles me that there are really people who think Crabtree is just the product of a system.
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Crabtree is a total college stud. He should be a stud in the NFL also. It's up to him whether he wants to excel or not. The only thing that will stop him is Michael Crabtree.

Also, I have absolutely no shot at getting this guy in our 2009 dynasty draft.
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Acquire picks!I've been targetting picks in the 4-8 range, as these teams generally believe they can compete now and sell their 1sts cheaper than the bottom teams - unless those bottom teams are just poorly managed. With a few top talented RBs - Moreno, Wells, Lucky, Davis, Hill, and others, and then a couple QBs like Tebow and Stafford (and, I think Daniel, but he is somewhat short), then Maclin and Heyward-Bey, I highly doubt Crabtree goes higher than that range.
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It really depends on the format. In a PPR he'll probably be a top 2-3 pick. I would take him at 1.01 today if I had to draft right now.That said, teams will usually take an average first round RB over a great first round WR, so he might slip to 3-5 in RB leagues. Anything lower than that would surprise me.

I agree with your general point though. If you want him on your team, you'll have to stockpile 2009 rookie picks.
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I apologize for the tangent, but IMO this is interesting. I've played in some pretty heavy laden PPR leagues, and the only time I've seen a WR go top 2 in recent years was Rogers and AJ in 2003. But that was mostly due to huge questions around the top RBs and the complete lack of other good RBs. Fitzgerald went after SJax, Kevin Jones, Julius Jones, and in many leagues, Tatem Bell. Even Calvin Johnson went #3 in most leagues (those I was in, perhaps he went 1 or 2 in others), and there were only two good RB prospects. Next year, you have no fewer than 3 or 4 darn good RB prospects, this looks more like 2004. Actually, this class is shaping up very similar to that year.

 
FUBAR said:
EBF said:
FUBAR said:
FavreCo said:
EBF said:
kremenull said:
O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D.......Let me see him do something outside of that gimmicky offense first, then we'll see if this guy is legit. At this point, I'm not impressed.......
Click to expand...
:confused: It baffles me that there are really people who think Crabtree is just the product of a system.
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Crabtree is a total college stud. He should be a stud in the NFL also. It's up to him whether he wants to excel or not. The only thing that will stop him is Michael Crabtree.

Also, I have absolutely no shot at getting this guy in our 2009 dynasty draft.
Click to expand...
Acquire picks!I've been targetting picks in the 4-8 range, as these teams generally believe they can compete now and sell their 1sts cheaper than the bottom teams - unless those bottom teams are just poorly managed. With a few top talented RBs - Moreno, Wells, Lucky, Davis, Hill, and others, and then a couple QBs like Tebow and Stafford (and, I think Daniel, but he is somewhat short), then Maclin and Heyward-Bey, I highly doubt Crabtree goes higher than that range.
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It really depends on the format. In a PPR he'll probably be a top 2-3 pick. I would take him at 1.01 today if I had to draft right now.That said, teams will usually take an average first round RB over a great first round WR, so he might slip to 3-5 in RB leagues. Anything lower than that would surprise me.

I agree with your general point though. If you want him on your team, you'll have to stockpile 2009 rookie picks.
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I apologize for the tangent, but IMO this is interesting. I've played in some pretty heavy laden PPR leagues, and the only time I've seen a WR go top 2 in recent years was Rogers and AJ in 2003. But that was mostly due to huge questions around the top RBs and the complete lack of other good RBs. Fitzgerald went after SJax, Kevin Jones, Julius Jones, and in many leagues, Tatem Bell. Even Calvin Johnson went #3 in most leagues (those I was in, perhaps he went 1 or 2 in others), and there were only two good RB prospects. Next year, you have no fewer than 3 or 4 darn good RB prospects, this looks more like 2004. Actually, this class is shaping up very similar to that year.
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My opinion might change after this NCAA season, but I see Crabtree as being in the Fitz/Calvin/Rogers class and these RBs being more in the Maroney class. I think the value of the backs has been exaggerated. They're good, but not special. There's not a surefire impact player in the first tier of Wells/Moreno/McCoy and the second tier guys have a ways to go before they earn a spot in the discussion. Of course, it's pretty likely that 1-2 guys will emerge ala Stewart/Mendenhall/Perry/LJ/McGahee. That's why I don't get too attached to my early opinions of a draft class. At this point last year everyone was talking about Steve Slaton as an elite prospect.

 
EBF said:
Colin Dowling said:
He's in the Fitz/Rogers/Calvin range.
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Don't be silly.
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I think he's that good. He had 1,800 yards last year in his first season of heavy PT. He has all the tools except pure speed. I see him as a lock for the top 10 of the draft and a possibility inside the top 3-5. I don't think it's a stretch at all.
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I think you are forgetting how exceptional Fitzgerald and Calvin were in college. I like Crabtree, and he's a lock to be a top-10 pick unless something befalls him, but comparisons to guys that were near-uncoverable for long stretches is a bit premature.
 
Colin Dowling said:
EBF said:
Colin Dowling said:
He's in the Fitz/Rogers/Calvin range.
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Don't be silly.
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I think he's that good. He had 1,800 yards last year in his first season of heavy PT. He has all the tools except pure speed. I see him as a lock for the top 10 of the draft and a possibility inside the top 3-5. I don't think it's a stretch at all.
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I think you are forgetting how exceptional Fitzgerald and Calvin were in college. I like Crabtree, and he's a lock to be a top-10 pick unless something befalls him, but comparisons to guys that were near-uncoverable for long stretches is a bit premature.
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:yawn:Calvin wasn't a big stat guy in college. He didn't crack 1,000 receiving yards until his final season. Fitzgerald was more like Crabtree. Instant stardom. Two monster seasons and then into the NFL. I don't see a big difference.
 
He actually reminds me more of a Donald Driver type and I think he could have a similar career in the NFL. Several great seasons with several solid ones but not quite a Randy Moss/TO level stud. He comes off as a great possession receiver good for 6-7 catches and around 75-85 yards a game with maybe a TD.

1: He can get the separation behind the CB, which is a key trait IMO. He may not have blazing 4.3 speed but I like a guy who can get separation and make the 20-25 yard catches time after time even if he isn't taking it to the house all the time. Separation is harder to stop than speed... we've seen plenty of speedy receivers who sucked but few who had great separation who played poorly.

2: Catches with his hands. Love that.

3: His speed kind of seems misleading. He doesn't "look fast" but before you know it, he's getting 20 yards on the screen or beating the CB on the fade.

4: Looks ideal for a West Coast Offense or an offense predicated on quick slants and stop n' go fade routes.

Weakness: Hard to see how good his route running truly is. I like my receivers to cut sharply and he seems to "roll"/"round" when going inside and any receiver can run a fade route (although few can get the separation he does).

 
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EBF said:
Colin Dowling said:
EBF said:
Colin Dowling said:
He's in the Fitz/Rogers/Calvin range.
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Don't be silly.
Click to expand...
I think he's that good. He had 1,800 yards last year in his first season of heavy PT. He has all the tools except pure speed. I see him as a lock for the top 10 of the draft and a possibility inside the top 3-5. I don't think it's a stretch at all.
Click to expand...
I think you are forgetting how exceptional Fitzgerald and Calvin were in college. I like Crabtree, and he's a lock to be a top-10 pick unless something befalls him, but comparisons to guys that were near-uncoverable for long stretches is a bit premature.
Click to expand...
:thumbdown: Calvin wasn't a big stat guy in college. He didn't crack 1,000 receiving yards until his final season.

Fitzgerald was more like Crabtree. Instant stardom. Two monster seasons and then into the NFL.

I don't see a big difference.
Click to expand...
:wall: Come on EBF, you're better than that.

Aside from the difference in competition and apparent draft slot, Crabtree is more similar to Marques Colston than those 3.

 
FUBAR said:
EBF said:
Colin Dowling said:
EBF said:
Colin Dowling said:
He's in the Fitz/Rogers/Calvin range.
Click to expand...
Don't be silly.
Click to expand...
I think he's that good. He had 1,800 yards last year in his first season of heavy PT. He has all the tools except pure speed. I see him as a lock for the top 10 of the draft and a possibility inside the top 3-5. I don't think it's a stretch at all.
Click to expand...
I think you are forgetting how exceptional Fitzgerald and Calvin were in college. I like Crabtree, and he's a lock to be a top-10 pick unless something befalls him, but comparisons to guys that were near-uncoverable for long stretches is a bit premature.
Click to expand...
:goodposting: Calvin wasn't a big stat guy in college. He didn't crack 1,000 receiving yards until his final season.

Fitzgerald was more like Crabtree. Instant stardom. Two monster seasons and then into the NFL.

I don't see a big difference.
Click to expand...
:wall: Come on EBF, you're better than that.

Aside from the difference in competition and apparent draft slot, Crabtree is more similar to Marques Colston than those 3.
Click to expand...
Calvin's career stats at Georgia Tech:2004 - 48 receptions, 837 yards, 7 TDs

2005 - 54 receptions, 888 yards, 6 TDs

2006 - 76 receptions, 1202 yards, 15 TDs

These are good stats, but they're not spectacular for the college level.

Crabtree had more catches, yards, and TDs last year than Calvin had in his first two seasons combined. It's not even close. He put up 134 receptions, 1962 yards, and 22 scores last season. That's ridiculous. He looks like a beast on the field and he's widely projected to be a top 10 pick. If you think it's a stretch to compare him to the elite WR prospects of the last 4-5 years then you're :confused: .

 
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EBF said:
FUBAR said:
EBF said:
Colin Dowling said:
EBF said:
Colin Dowling said:
He's in the Fitz/Rogers/Calvin range.
Click to expand...
Don't be silly.
Click to expand...
I think he's that good. He had 1,800 yards last year in his first season of heavy PT. He has all the tools except pure speed. I see him as a lock for the top 10 of the draft and a possibility inside the top 3-5. I don't think it's a stretch at all.
Click to expand...
I think you are forgetting how exceptional Fitzgerald and Calvin were in college. I like Crabtree, and he's a lock to be a top-10 pick unless something befalls him, but comparisons to guys that were near-uncoverable for long stretches is a bit premature.
Click to expand...
:hophead: Calvin wasn't a big stat guy in college. He didn't crack 1,000 receiving yards until his final season.

Fitzgerald was more like Crabtree. Instant stardom. Two monster seasons and then into the NFL.

I don't see a big difference.
Click to expand...
:wall: Come on EBF, you're better than that.

Aside from the difference in competition and apparent draft slot, Crabtree is more similar to Marques Colston than those 3.
Click to expand...
Calvin's career stats at Georgia Tech:2004 - 48 receptions, 837 yards, 7 TDs

2005 - 54 receptions, 888 yards, 6 TDs

2006 - 76 receptions, 1202 yards, 15 TDs

These are good stats, but they're not spectacular for the college level.

Crabtree had more catches, yards, and TDs last year than Calvin had in his first two seasons combined. It's not even close. He put up 134 receptions, 1962 yards, and 22 scores last season. That's ridiculous. He looks like a beast on the field and he's widely projected to be a top 10 pick. If you think it's a stretch to compare him to the elite WR prospects of the last 4-5 years then you're :crazy: .
Click to expand...
I like Crabtree, as my posts above show, but let's not pretend college stats mean a whole lot in the NFL.I don't even mind comparing him to the elite prospects, he compares well to Braylon Edwards for example. I just see him as closer to Colston, who isn't much different than Braylon for that matter.

 
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DawnBTVS said:
Weakness: Hard to see how good his route running truly is. I like my receivers to cut sharply and he seems to "roll"/"round" when going inside and any receiver can run a fade route (although few can get the separation he does).
Click to expand...
This is probably the only legitimate factors of the Leach offense that potential owners of Crabtree have to be concerned with. He doesn't need to 'beat' a CB on legit routes play in and play out in that offense right now - but definitely will have to when he gets to the next level.
 
He doesn't remind me of any 6'3" NFL WR. And not that it is a big deal, but I don't think he measures much, if any, over 6020 at the combine. Regardless, he can stretch his arms well and get up for a ball.

I do like the way he runs, and it reminds me more of Boldin than any other player I've seen posted yet. He gets low in traffic, and runs more like a RB with that shorter stride.

I know it's customary to post higher side comparisons, but I think Crabtree kind of has his own uniqueness. I see some James Jones and some Sydney Rice. Two different styles, but you also have to add some "higher ceiling" into that mix.

I think the kid has a lot of great qualities, and I don't believe top 10 is a stretch by any means at this point.

 
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EBF said:
Colin Dowling said:
He's in the Fitz/Rogers/Calvin range.
Click to expand...
Don't be silly.
Click to expand...
I think he's that good. He had 1,800 yards last year in his first season of heavy PT. He has all the tools except pure speed. I see him as a lock for the top 10 of the draft and a possibility inside the top 3-5. I don't think it's a stretch at all.
Click to expand...
Just because a guy goes Top 3-5 (Crabtree, possibly) in a given draft is not a good barometer to compare to another guy who went Top 5 (Calvin). All drafts are different and prospects should be graded overall based on their own talents/skills/measurables. When it's all said and done, Crabtree will not be in the same hemisphere as Calvin as far as draft grade (historical perspective). This is the better measuring stick for comparing pro prospects. Alex Smith went #1 overall in a draft....but is he in the range of Peyton Manning, another #1 overall QB? Once these guys enter the NFL, then who knows who will work the hardest to be the best they can be. But simply saying that Crabtree is in the same range (prospect) as Calvin is not correct. The fact that he lacks elite speed, and is not as athletic as Calvin, either, pretty much seals that deal. Calvin is uber-athletic, only Moss is/was in the same class athletically....Now if you are qualifying it as you believe he may be as good of a pro as Calvin, that's a different take.......that I also would not agree with.
 
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Calvin - 1.02

Braylon - 1.03

Fitzgerald - 1.04

Rogers - 1.02

Andre - 1.03

You can argue that each draft class is different, but it generally takes a pretty special WR talent to go this high. I think Crabtree belongs in that company and I think he'll be a top 5 pick when it's all said and done. So to me saying he's in the same general range as Calvin isn't a big stretch. I think there will be a lot less argument about this 8-9 months from now. For now we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 
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