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New England Backfield (1 Viewer)

L

loose circuits

Footballguy
Any chance 1-2 of these guys become fantasy relevant this year? Are they going to carry 5 RB's on the roster?

Fred Taylor: Signed for decent money considering his age 2 year 5 mil, but what exactly will his role be? He's certainly lost a step, and I'm not certain what they will get out of him.

Sammy Morris: steady vet when healthy, but hasn't ever had more than 150 carries. His contract is under $1 mil/yr thru 2010

Laurence Maroney: Has never lived up to hype. Reiss recently reported that the Fred Taylor signing was a sign the Pats had given up on Maroney

Kevin Faulk: solid bet for 40 catches, at 33 with a $3 mil salary you think he'd be likely to stick around

Benjarvus Green-Ellis: In week 10, he had a 100 yard effort as he was the last man standing. He's a solid power back, who may be fighting for GL carries or a roster spot. Prior to the Fred Taylor signing, I felt pretty good about his prospects. Now it seems, he may be lucky to remain on the 53. Although, I like his odds if he does make it. Morris, Taylor, and Maroney aren't exactly a picture of health.

How does the shark pool see this ending up? For those that will immediately write them off since it will be RBBC, I'd like to point out that this team was 5th in rushing yds/game and 4th in the league in TD's. There could be a diamond in the rough here if one guy emerges.

 
my take:

maroney - will be hurt/in the doghouse

Kevin Faulk - 3rd down

Fred Taylor - the guy to have, BB love vets that are hard workers like him

BJGE - worthless unless there is injuries to everyone above.

Sammy Mo - odd man out, Im no expert but would he even survive camp cuts if they pick up another back in the draft that would play S/T

 
My guess is Lawrence will start in day 1. and maybe the week following. But unless he starts running mean and strong, and stops dancing around and losing yards, Sammy or Fred will get his starting spot. Plus, he's so injury prone, he's just gonna hurt himself anyways. BUT, if he stops dancing and becomes magically invulnerable to injuries, he's a great pick.

Im waiting till i read more reports on training camp to see how Sammy and Fred go to see who'll be #1. Odds are Sammy will get more carries, but really, I got no clue how Fred is.

Kevin is the definition of 3rd down back, probably gonna have more catches then all other RBs combined throughout the season. Love him, but he's not a great FF pick.

BJGE: He did great, but unless people start getting injured, he's not going anywhere. I DID pick him up last year when he inherited the starting job and he did very well for the few weeks he was in. But then again, he was the last man standing.

 
David Yudkin said:
RBBC./thread
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yuds yuds yuds. with the new edict around here I expected more.You dont think Fred Taylor is the guy to have? Can Maroney even sniff a the 50% mark of the load.We all know that Faulk is the 3rd down guyAnd really some weeks BB wont even run once. so GL with NE backs that week.
 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
my take:

maroney - will be hurt/in the doghouse

Kevin Faulk - 3rd down

Fred Taylor - the guy to have, BB love vets that are hard workers like him

BJGE - worthless unless there is injuries to everyone above.

Sammy Mo - odd man out, Im no expert but would he even survive camp cuts if they pick up another back in the draft that would play S/T
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I think Morris absolutely makes the team - he's been better than Maroney when he's been healthy. I agree that Maroney will be hurt or in the doghouse. Frankly, I wouldn't even be surprised if he ends up getting cut. What a colossal disappointment he's been.

Kevin Faulk will be back in his role as 3rd down back, although it wouldn't completely shock me if he got cut, either.

BJGE is, as you said, worthless unless there are injuries to everyone else.

I don't think any of these guys will be particularly useful as fantasy backs, but if I had to choose one, I'd take Fred Taylor.

With a gun to my head, if I had to make a prediction, it would be that Taylor and Maroney split carries with a slight edge to Taylor, Morris also gets his share of snaps (maybe a Heath Evans-type role but with more carries), and Faulk is in on 3rd downs.

In other words, stay away.

 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
David Yudkin said:
RBBC./thread
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yuds yuds yuds. with the new edict around here I expected more.You dont think Fred Taylor is the guy to have? Can Maroney even sniff a the 50% mark of the load.We all know that Faulk is the 3rd down guyAnd really some weeks BB wont even run once. so GL with NE backs that week.
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Don't really have time to elaborate. But I don't see anything having changed in Foxboro.
 
Maroney was hurt last year, so I'll give him a pass there. Was looking very strong at the end of 07, and I do think he's the best they have - he just has to stay on the field (which has been a problem for him).

 
Katana said:
Kevin is the definition of 3rd down back, probably gonna have more catches then all other RBs combined throughout the season. Love him, but he's not a great FF pick.
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Disagree. In moderately deep PPR leagues, I think Faulk is going to continue to be a steal. As you said, he'll probably have more catches than all the other RBs combined.
 
Hey look, another patriots thread with 1 star :yes:

Those doubting Yudkin: Unless you have better information (unlikely) then I'd go with his take over your hunch. I'm just sayin...

 
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Belichick will use whatever RB that will be successful according to the gameplan that they prepare for each week.

If he sees that Taylor is the guy that will give him the best chance to beat the Bills, Freddy T will carry the load.

If the Pats are going to use the RB in the passing game against a particular D, Kevin Faulk will be the man.

The RB's will be rotated each week depending on the opponent's style of Defense.

Pretty big mess for fantasy purposes...

 
Two words as far as fantasy is concerned...stay away.

Assuming guys like Taylor, Faulk and Morris have not lost a step this year this will be the ultimate RBBC. Taylor may end up with the most carries but there is zero doubt that both Faulk and Morris will continue with their roles. BB is a huge fan of both these guys and they're not going anywhere. Maroney is a total wildcard. He's been a dissapointment and I believe BB is losing patience with him but there's still talent there and with a low salary I'm sure they'd love to see the lightbulb go on. BJGE is still there and what he brings to the table is anyone's guess. He played well for an undrafted rookie and he's the type of guy I could see coming into camp with confidence and looking good...or being cut. There's that much of a swing with him.

To make matters even more confusing the Pats have three #2's and two #3's so adding a quality rookie to the mix is a possibility as well. With Faulk, Morris and Taylor all over 30 and Maroney on the last year of a deal and a complete enigma the Pats could grab their RB of the future should a Beanie Wells unexpectedly drop to that #34 pick or if they are high on a Donald Brown or McCoy type of RB and he's available with one of those second rounders. If that scenario unfolded I could see Maroney traded on draft day although I'm not sure what his value would be.

Another x-factor here is the Pats don't have a FB on their roster. Should they add a guy who has quality hands or is a good short yardage back a bad fantasy situation will have just found a way to get even worse.

 
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Boston said:
Two words as far as fantasy is concerned...stay away.

Assuming guys like Taylor, Faulk and Morris have not lost a step this year this will be the ultimate RBBC. Taylor may end up with the most carries but there is zero doubt that both Faulk and Morris will continue with their roles. BB is a huge fan of both these guys and they're not going anywhere. Maroney is a total wildcard. He's been a dissapointment and I believe BB is losing patience with him but there's still talent there and with a low salary I'm sure they'd love to see the lightbulb go on. BJGE is still there and what he brings to the table is anyone's guess. He played well for an undrafted rookie and he's the type of guy I could see coming into camp with confidence and looking good...or being cut. There's that much of a swing with him.

To make matters even more confusing the Pats have three #2's and two #3's so adding a quality rookie to the mix is a possibility as well. With Faulk, Morris and Taylor all over 30 and Maroney on the last year of a deal and a complete enigma the Pats could grab their RB of the future should a Beanie Wells unexpectedly drop to that #34 pick or if they are high on a Donald Brown or McCoy type of RB and he's available with one of those second rounders. If that scenario unfolded I could see Maroney traded on draft day although I'm not sure what his value would be.

Another x-factor here is the Pats don't have a FB on their roster. Should they add a guy who has quality hands or is a good short yardage back a bad fantasy situation will have just found a way to get even worse.
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Funny, because FF wise, I almost think value. Everyone will devalue the whole lot unless someone seems like the clear cut #1 in pre-season. When you are filling up a deep roster (non-deep roster might make this hard), taking a few Patriots may work out nice. The past couple seasons, even with RBBC, there have been valuable games. During 2007 playoffs Maroney averaged 100 yds/1TD. Morris in 19 games in 2007/2008 was OK in 4 games and good in 6 games fantasy wise. In 2008, Green-Ellis had 3 good games fantasy wise. In 2008, Faulk had 5 good games (non-PPR) and another 5 or 6 good games in 2007/2008 PPR wise. I won't count Jordan as he had a couple good games, but in games no one would have started him.Anyway, not saying the situation is ideal by any means, but in deep roster leagues, where you listen to Yudkin :bag: , you may be able to grab Taylor/Maroney/Morris way after others are gone you may do OK. One injury or one guy taking the lead and you could be golden. Let's put it this way, the Giants and Titans had about 415-420 total RB FPs according to FBGs (non-PPR) and the Pats had 405. The points are there unless Brady has another 2007. In 2006, the Pats again had about 400 RB FPs, but in 2007 they had a low of 320, which was partly due to Brady's 50 TDs, but also due to Maroney and Morris missing a combined 13 games with no one else there.

 
stbugs said:
Boston said:
Two words as far as fantasy is concerned...stay away.

Assuming guys like Taylor, Faulk and Morris have not lost a step this year this will be the ultimate RBBC. Taylor may end up with the most carries but there is zero doubt that both Faulk and Morris will continue with their roles. BB is a huge fan of both these guys and they're not going anywhere. Maroney is a total wildcard. He's been a dissapointment and I believe BB is losing patience with him but there's still talent there and with a low salary I'm sure they'd love to see the lightbulb go on. BJGE is still there and what he brings to the table is anyone's guess. He played well for an undrafted rookie and he's the type of guy I could see coming into camp with confidence and looking good...or being cut. There's that much of a swing with him.

To make matters even more confusing the Pats have three #2's and two #3's so adding a quality rookie to the mix is a possibility as well. With Faulk, Morris and Taylor all over 30 and Maroney on the last year of a deal and a complete enigma the Pats could grab their RB of the future should a Beanie Wells unexpectedly drop to that #34 pick or if they are high on a Donald Brown or McCoy type of RB and he's available with one of those second rounders. If that scenario unfolded I could see Maroney traded on draft day although I'm not sure what his value would be.

Another x-factor here is the Pats don't have a FB on their roster. Should they add a guy who has quality hands or is a good short yardage back a bad fantasy situation will have just found a way to get even worse.
Click to expand...
Funny, because FF wise, I almost think value. Everyone will devalue the whole lot unless someone seems like the clear cut #1 in pre-season. When you are filling up a deep roster (non-deep roster might make this hard), taking a few Patriots may work out nice. The past couple seasons, even with RBBC, there have been valuable games. During 2007 playoffs Maroney averaged 100 yds/1TD. Morris in 19 games in 2007/2008 was OK in 4 games and good in 6 games fantasy wise. In 2008, Green-Ellis had 3 good games fantasy wise. In 2008, Faulk had 5 good games (non-PPR) and another 5 or 6 good games in 2007/2008 PPR wise. I won't count Jordan as he had a couple good games, but in games no one would have started him.Anyway, not saying the situation is ideal by any means, but in deep roster leagues, where you listen to Yudkin :( , you may be able to grab Taylor/Maroney/Morris way after others are gone you may do OK. One injury or one guy taking the lead and you could be golden. Let's put it this way, the Giants and Titans had about 415-420 total RB FPs according to FBGs (non-PPR) and the Pats had 405. The points are there unless Brady has another 2007. In 2006, the Pats again had about 400 RB FPs, but in 2007 they had a low of 320, which was partly due to Brady's 50 TDs, but also due to Maroney and Morris missing a combined 13 games with no one else there.
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Big picture I don't disagree with your analysis. The problem is on a game-to-game level you have a better chance winning the lottery than figuring out what the Pats are going to do with their RBs (your above breakdown is the perfect example of this). BB loves to mix-up his gameplans so you really can't go by what happened the week before. So, while I don't see anything wrong with having a Maroney, Morris on Taylor (especially since you should be able to get them late like you stated) on your bench the key will be not having any expectations and taking anything they give you as a gift.
 
BJGE not very good. I'd guess they just like his hustle and all but also figure he's quite replaceable.

Maroney probably not as good trade offers for him as they expected.

I think Morris is going to replace Faulk, in Faulk's role, when he retires. For now Freddy and him split or Freddy and Maroney split.

Maroney should go to a team like NYG where he could play(play) as a complimentary back and not be just a backup. He could turn his career around fairly quickly. Also, Jamal is ancient, it'd be sweet to get Mangini to overpay...as if

 
Bri said:
BJGE not very good. I'd guess they just like his hustle and all but also figure he's quite replaceable.Maroney probably not as good trade offers for him as they expected.I think Morris is going to replace Faulk, in Faulk's role, when he retires. For now Freddy and him split or Freddy and Maroney split.Maroney should go to a team like NYG where he could play(play) as a complimentary back and not be just a backup. He could turn his career around fairly quickly. Also, Jamal is ancient, it'd be sweet to get Mangini to overpay...as if
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I could and maybe should have devoted some time to this thread but am saving some comments for later on rather than have to repeat them 40-50 times as the season approaches.But as far as Morris replacing Faulk, I don't see it. As far as the three elder statesmen on NE . . .Taylor 1/76Faulk 6/76Morris 3/77None of them is getting younger and their days are starting to be numbered. I don't see any of them being around much longer than this year, next year at the latest.
 
Boston said:
stbugs said:
Boston said:
Two words as far as fantasy is concerned...stay away.

Assuming guys like Taylor, Faulk and Morris have not lost a step this year this will be the ultimate RBBC. Taylor may end up with the most carries but there is zero doubt that both Faulk and Morris will continue with their roles. BB is a huge fan of both these guys and they're not going anywhere. Maroney is a total wildcard. He's been a dissapointment and I believe BB is losing patience with him but there's still talent there and with a low salary I'm sure they'd love to see the lightbulb go on. BJGE is still there and what he brings to the table is anyone's guess. He played well for an undrafted rookie and he's the type of guy I could see coming into camp with confidence and looking good...or being cut. There's that much of a swing with him.

To make matters even more confusing the Pats have three #2's and two #3's so adding a quality rookie to the mix is a possibility as well. With Faulk, Morris and Taylor all over 30 and Maroney on the last year of a deal and a complete enigma the Pats could grab their RB of the future should a Beanie Wells unexpectedly drop to that #34 pick or if they are high on a Donald Brown or McCoy type of RB and he's available with one of those second rounders. If that scenario unfolded I could see Maroney traded on draft day although I'm not sure what his value would be.

Another x-factor here is the Pats don't have a FB on their roster. Should they add a guy who has quality hands or is a good short yardage back a bad fantasy situation will have just found a way to get even worse.
Click to expand...
Funny, because FF wise, I almost think value. Everyone will devalue the whole lot unless someone seems like the clear cut #1 in pre-season. When you are filling up a deep roster (non-deep roster might make this hard), taking a few Patriots may work out nice. The past couple seasons, even with RBBC, there have been valuable games. During 2007 playoffs Maroney averaged 100 yds/1TD. Morris in 19 games in 2007/2008 was OK in 4 games and good in 6 games fantasy wise. In 2008, Green-Ellis had 3 good games fantasy wise. In 2008, Faulk had 5 good games (non-PPR) and another 5 or 6 good games in 2007/2008 PPR wise. I won't count Jordan as he had a couple good games, but in games no one would have started him.Anyway, not saying the situation is ideal by any means, but in deep roster leagues, where you listen to Yudkin :fishing: , you may be able to grab Taylor/Maroney/Morris way after others are gone you may do OK. One injury or one guy taking the lead and you could be golden. Let's put it this way, the Giants and Titans had about 415-420 total RB FPs according to FBGs (non-PPR) and the Pats had 405. The points are there unless Brady has another 2007. In 2006, the Pats again had about 400 RB FPs, but in 2007 they had a low of 320, which was partly due to Brady's 50 TDs, but also due to Maroney and Morris missing a combined 13 games with no one else there.
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Big picture I don't disagree with your analysis. The problem is on a game-to-game level you have a better chance winning the lottery than figuring out what the Pats are going to do with their RBs (your above breakdown is the perfect example of this). BB loves to mix-up his gameplans so you really can't go by what happened the week before. So, while I don't see anything wrong with having a Maroney, Morris on Taylor (especially since you should be able to get them late like you stated) on your bench the key will be not having any expectations and taking anything they give you as a gift.
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I understand and agree, but it wasn't long ago that their backfield was easy to predict. I think they were planning on Maroney replacing Dillon, but he didn't. Morris as well, but both kept getting hurt. I just think that people may avoid it enough that it will be a value this year to grab 2 or 3 of them. Again, this is mainly deep rosters. I have one deep league (20 spots, 12 teams) where I would think about this strategy and one where I wouldn't even try it (10 team, 15 spots with more starters).If Brady doesn't throw 50, then the Pats will probably be around 400 FPs for RBs (non-PPR) and if injuries/good play happen, you could easily end up with a nice RB2 slot in the late rounds when people are drafting RB4/5/6.

 
David Yudkin said:
Bri said:
BJGE not very good. I'd guess they just like his hustle and all but also figure he's quite replaceable.Maroney probably not as good trade offers for him as they expected.I think Morris is going to replace Faulk, in Faulk's role, when he retires. For now Freddy and him split or Freddy and Maroney split.Maroney should go to a team like NYG where he could play(play) as a complimentary back and not be just a backup. He could turn his career around fairly quickly. Also, Jamal is ancient, it'd be sweet to get Mangini to overpay...as if
Click to expand...
I could and maybe should have devoted some time to this thread but am saving some comments for later on rather than have to repeat them 40-50 times as the season approaches.But as far as Morris replacing Faulk, I don't see it. As far as the three elder statesmen on NE . . .Taylor 1/76Faulk 6/76Morris 3/77None of them is getting younger and their days are starting to be numbered. I don't see any of them being around much longer than this year, next year at the latest.
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Great point, if the Pats draft a talented rookie, definitely something to watch for keeper leagues. While the Pats have been RBBC lately, I don't think it is because that is BB's style, I think it is because of the lack of a Dillon/A. Smith type season. BB won Super Bowls with a clear cut starting RB, so I don't think he is avoiding it. I just think he feels like he doesn't have the personnel for it the past two years.As long as Brady is there with Moss/Welker, etc., there is a chance of a perennial top 10 RB emerging if BB gets the right guy. I rode Dillon a couple years in NE and he was solid. He would have been top 10 twice if he didn't miss 4 games in 2005 and A. Smith was top 10 2 years prior to Dillon and A. Smith kind of sucked. :fishing:
 
stbugs said:
David Yudkin said:
Bri said:
BJGE not very good. I'd guess they just like his hustle and all but also figure he's quite replaceable.Maroney probably not as good trade offers for him as they expected.I think Morris is going to replace Faulk, in Faulk's role, when he retires. For now Freddy and him split or Freddy and Maroney split.Maroney should go to a team like NYG where he could play(play) as a complimentary back and not be just a backup. He could turn his career around fairly quickly. Also, Jamal is ancient, it'd be sweet to get Mangini to overpay...as if
Click to expand...
I could and maybe should have devoted some time to this thread but am saving some comments for later on rather than have to repeat them 40-50 times as the season approaches.But as far as Morris replacing Faulk, I don't see it. As far as the three elder statesmen on NE . . .Taylor 1/76Faulk 6/76Morris 3/77None of them is getting younger and their days are starting to be numbered. I don't see any of them being around much longer than this year, next year at the latest.
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Great point, if the Pats draft a talented rookie, definitely something to watch for keeper leagues. While the Pats have been RBBC lately, I don't think it is because that is BB's style, I think it is because of the lack of a Dillon/A. Smith type season. BB won Super Bowls with a clear cut starting RB, so I don't think he is avoiding it. I just think he feels like he doesn't have the personnel for it the past two years.As long as Brady is there with Moss/Welker, etc., there is a chance of a perennial top 10 RB emerging if BB gets the right guy. I rode Dillon a couple years in NE and he was solid. He would have been top 10 twice if he didn't miss 4 games in 2005 and A. Smith was top 10 2 years prior to Dillon and A. Smith kind of sucked. :confused:
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IMO, this analysis is backwards. I think BB used Dillon and SMith as much as he did those two years because he had very limited options behind them and he WOULD have utilized a RBBC if he could have.The other thing people are not factoring in is that Welker + Moss + Brady = more passing, less rushing. Maybe not 2007 in terms of inflated passing totals, but I suspect a fair amount fewer rushing attempts and production than in 2008.
 
Maroney will be starter, but only have 50% of carries at MOST. Taylor will spell him and have a good 30-40% himself. K Faulk will get the rest. Morris and BJGE are SOL.

 
Sinrman said:
Maroney will be starter, but only have 50% of carries at MOST. Taylor will spell him and have a good 30-40% himself. K Faulk will get the rest. Morris and BJGE are SOL.
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I dunno, Sammy Morris seems to get a lot of touches and produces at a pretty high level. I don't think he'll vanish.
 
Sinrman said:
Maroney will be starter, but only have 50% of carries at MOST. Taylor will spell him and have a good 30-40% himself. K Faulk will get the rest. Morris and BJGE are SOL.
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If Maroney plays like he did last year I don't see this happening. Between getting hurt and dancing behind the line (and the Pats not using him correctly as well) he just hasn't been productive on a consistent basis (and really not at all in 2008). Hopefully the fact he's playing for a new contract will light a fire under his butt...if not he'll be wearing a new uniform either in 09 or 10.
 
inzanitee said:
Sinrman said:
Maroney will be starter, but only have 50% of carries at MOST. Taylor will spell him and have a good 30-40% himself. K Faulk will get the rest. Morris and BJGE are SOL.
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I dunno, Sammy Morris seems to get a lot of touches and produces at a pretty high level. I don't think he'll vanish.
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I've stated this before but I don't think many non-Patriot fans understand that Morris is a favorite of BB and someone he totally trust with the ball. He's never going to be a star but he's a grinder who's almost always productive and with his contract isn't going anywhere.
 
Sinrman said:
Maroney will be starter, but only have 50% of carries at MOST. Taylor will spell him and have a good 30-40% himself. K Faulk will get the rest. Morris and BJGE are SOL.
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IMO, I would be inclined to disagree on almost all counts (well, except for BJGE).
 
I really don't get how anyone comes and posts "Maroney will be the starter." If there was any cap benefit to doing so, this guy couldve easily been released already.

 
While I am certainly not high on Maroney, the guy doesn't suck. Last season was basically a lost season due to injuries, and it's possible the "soft" play was due to a bum shoulder. Maroney's game logs from 2007, the year of the Pass for the Pats, were solid:

WK TM OPP RSH YD TD REC YD TD FPT1 NE NYJ 20 72 0 0 0 0 7.2 2 NE SD 15 77 0 0 0 0 7.7 3 NE BUF 19 103 0 0 0 0 10.3 7 NE MIA 6 31 0 0 0 0 3.1 8 NE WAS 14 75 0 2 37 0 11.2 9 NE IND 15 59 0 0 0 0 5.9 11 NE BUF 6 19 1 0 0 0 7.9 12 NE PHI 10 31 1 0 0 0 9.1 13 NE BAL 13 44 0 2 79 0 12.3 14 NE PIT 8 18 0 0 0 0 1.8 15 NE NYJ 26 104 1 0 0 0 16.4 16 NE MIA 14 156 1 0 0 0 21.6 17 NE NYG 19 46 2 0 0 0 16.6 19 NE JAX 22 122 1 2 40 0 22.2 20 NE SD 25 122 1 1 9 0 19.121 NE NYG 14 36 1 2 12 0 10.8TOT 16g 246 1115 9 9 177 0 183.2 (11.45/g)I think it's too early to write him off. Now I certainly agree that it's a RBBC in 2009, but I don't think New England is keeping Maroney just because he is cheap, though that does matter. The guy can produce. A good camp can win back the coaches' confidence in him and possibly make him a bigger part of the committee. Great guy to take a flier on as your RB5 or later, IMO.

 
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Lott said:
While I am certainly not high on Maroney, the guy doesn't suck. Last season was basically a lost season due to injuries, and it's possible the "soft" play was due to a bum shoulder. Maroney's game logs from 2007, the year of the Pass for the Pats, were solid:

Code: 
WK	TM	OPP	RSH	YD	TD	REC	YD	TD	FPT1	NE	NYJ	20	72	0	0	0	0	7.2	2	NE	SD	15	77	0	0	0	0	7.7	3	NE	BUF	19	103	0	0	0	0	10.3	7	NE	MIA	6	31	0	0	0	0	3.1	8	NE	WAS	14	75	0	2	37	0	11.2	9	NE	IND	15	59	0	0	0	0	5.9	11	NE	BUF	6	19	1	0	0	0	7.9	12	NE	PHI	10	31	1	0	0	0	9.1	13	NE	BAL	13	44	0	2	79	0	12.3	14	NE	PIT	8	18	0	0	0	0	1.8	15	NE	NYJ	26	104	1	0	0	0	16.4	16	NE	MIA	14	156	1	0	0	0	21.6	17	NE	NYG	19	46	2	0	0	0	16.6	19	NE	JAX	22	122	1	2	40	0	22.2	20	NE	SD	25	122	1	1	9	0	19.121	NE	NYG	14	36	1	2	12	0	10.8TOT	16g		246	1115	 9	9	177	0	183.2  (11.45/g)
I think it's too early to write him off. Now I certainly agree that it's a RBBC in 2009, but I don't think New England is keeping Maroney just because he is cheap, though that does matter. The guy can produce. A good camp can win back the coaches' confidence in him and possibly make him a bigger part of the committee. Great guy to take a flier on as your RB5 or later, IMO.
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I'm in the pro-Maroney camp. What his detractors always fail to mention, is when he was healthy at the end of 07, he played great vs. every team that was not the New York Giants.I think if healthy he is easily the most talented RB on the roster, it's just a matter of staying on the field. What is frustrating to someone else's point, is that they don't seem to use him much in the passing game, which is a shame because his strength is getting him in space where he can use his speed and shiftiness. The few times that Brady would dump a pass to him over the middle would always seem to go for big gains.
 
tombonneau said:
Lott said:
While I am certainly not high on Maroney, the guy doesn't suck. Last season was basically a lost season due to injuries, and it's possible the "soft" play was due to a bum shoulder. Maroney's game logs from 2007, the year of the Pass for the Pats, were solid:

Code: 
WK	TM	OPP	RSH	YD	TD	REC	YD	TD	FPT1	NE	NYJ	20	72	0	0	0	0	7.2	2	NE	SD	15	77	0	0	0	0	7.7	3	NE	BUF	19	103	0	0	0	0	10.3	7	NE	MIA	6	31	0	0	0	0	3.1	8	NE	WAS	14	75	0	2	37	0	11.2	9	NE	IND	15	59	0	0	0	0	5.9	11	NE	BUF	6	19	1	0	0	0	7.9	12	NE	PHI	10	31	1	0	0	0	9.1	13	NE	BAL	13	44	0	2	79	0	12.3	14	NE	PIT	8	18	0	0	0	0	1.8	15	NE	NYJ	26	104	1	0	0	0	16.4	16	NE	MIA	14	156	1	0	0	0	21.6	17	NE	NYG	19	46	2	0	0	0	16.6	19	NE	JAX	22	122	1	2	40	0	22.2	20	NE	SD	25	122	1	1	9	0	19.121	NE	NYG	14	36	1	2	12	0	10.8TOT	16g		246	1115	 9	9	177	0	183.2  (11.45/g)
I think it's too early to write him off. Now I certainly agree that it's a RBBC in 2009, but I don't think New England is keeping Maroney just because he is cheap, though that does matter. The guy can produce. A good camp can win back the coaches' confidence in him and possibly make him a bigger part of the committee. Great guy to take a flier on as your RB5 or later, IMO.
Click to expand...
I'm in the pro-Maroney camp. What his detractors always fail to mention, is when he was healthy at the end of 07, he played great vs. every team that was not the New York Giants.I think if healthy he is easily the most talented RB on the roster, it's just a matter of staying on the field. What is frustrating to someone else's point, is that they don't seem to use him much in the passing game, which is a shame because his strength is getting him in space where he can use his speed and shiftiness. The few times that Brady would dump a pass to him over the middle would always seem to go for big gains.
Click to expand...
It's easy to conclude that Maroney's solid end to the 2007 season would make him the Pats default go to RB, but I will point out that THE PATRIOTS HAD NO OTHER HEALTHY RB OPTIONS at that time. If people also look back at the solid year by Antowain Smith and the monster year by Dillon a few years later, NE really had no other options to run the ball. Over the last half of BB's tenure with NE, he has made a concerted effort to add RB depth and distribute the ball. In the early days, there would be one guy toting the ball and only really Faulk as a backup. As we enter 2009, Maroney will be getting only $600,000 this year. Faulk will make $3.5 million. Taylor will get a total of $2.3 million. Morris will make slighlty over $1 million. I doubt NE would invest nearly $7 million in RB depth for Maroney to become the featured back.Above and beyond the money, I suspect that all the RBs will have defined roles and none of them will have much more of a workload or production than the others . . . unless of course there are a bunch of injuries and one guy inherits a bigger role.
 
For TD heavy leagues, who gets the Goal Line Touches? To me, that is Morris. Maroney dances too much, and Taylor isn't really a big TD guy anymore.

I guess Fred Taylor and Maroney fight it out to see who gets normal carries.

Morris is the Short Yardage/Goal line back.

Faulk has one more year as the 3rd down back

 
David Yudkin said:
It's easy to conclude that Maroney's solid end to the 2007 season would make him the Pats default go to RB, but I will point out that THE PATRIOTS HAD NO OTHER HEALTHY RB OPTIONS at that time. If people also look back at the solid year by Antowain Smith and the monster year by Dillon a few years later, NE really had no other options to run the ball. Over the last half of BB's tenure with NE, he has made a concerted effort to add RB depth and distribute the ball. In the early days, there would be one guy toting the ball and only really Faulk as a backup.

As we enter 2009, Maroney will be getting only $600,000 this year. Faulk will make $3.5 million. Taylor will get a total of $2.3 million. Morris will make slighlty over $1 million. I doubt NE would invest nearly $7 million in RB depth for Maroney to become the featured back.

Above and beyond the money, I suspect that all the RBs will have defined roles and none of them will have much more of a workload or production than the others . . . unless of course there are a bunch of injuries and one guy inherits a bigger role.
Click to expand...
With apologies to Antowain Smith's 2001 season, Corey Dillon in 2004 was the only time during the Belichick era that they've had a feature RB who was worthy of carrying the entire load himself. I remember Dillon being absolutely dominant that season, far more so than any New England RB we've seen before or since during the Belichick era. Perhaps it's the "chicken or the egg" debate here, but I can't imagine that they'd have taken carries away from him that year and given them to a lesser RB. After 345 carries, Dillon's game declined sharply following that season. Laurence Maroney was the 21st overall pick in the draft... although I suppose it is possible, I have a very hard time believing that they chose him that high with the plan to use him long-term as part of a RBBC, especially given that Kevin Faulk was already entrenched as the 3rd down back. I have to think that Maroney was expected to take the torch from Dillon, but he has obviously thus far failed to do so.Anyway, more to the point of this thread, I don't think the Patriots will give Maroney another shot at being that workhorse type of RB, barring injuries to pretty much every other RB on the roster. I think any contribution he makes will be as part of a RBBC at this point, which, I think, is the contribution that the Pats would settle for with him, even if it's not quite what they had in mind for him when they drafted him.

 
David Yudkin said:
tombonneau said:
Lott said:
While I am certainly not high on Maroney, the guy doesn't suck. Last season was basically a lost season due to injuries, and it's possible the "soft" play was due to a bum shoulder. Maroney's game logs from 2007, the year of the Pass for the Pats, were solid:

Code: 
WK	TM	OPP	RSH	YD	TD	REC	YD	TD	FPT1	NE	NYJ	20	72	0	0	0	0	7.2	2	NE	SD	15	77	0	0	0	0	7.7	3	NE	BUF	19	103	0	0	0	0	10.3	7	NE	MIA	6	31	0	0	0	0	3.1	8	NE	WAS	14	75	0	2	37	0	11.2	9	NE	IND	15	59	0	0	0	0	5.9	11	NE	BUF	6	19	1	0	0	0	7.9	12	NE	PHI	10	31	1	0	0	0	9.1	13	NE	BAL	13	44	0	2	79	0	12.3	14	NE	PIT	8	18	0	0	0	0	1.8	15	NE	NYJ	26	104	1	0	0	0	16.4	16	NE	MIA	14	156	1	0	0	0	21.6	17	NE	NYG	19	46	2	0	0	0	16.6	19	NE	JAX	22	122	1	2	40	0	22.2	20	NE	SD	25	122	1	1	9	0	19.121	NE	NYG	14	36	1	2	12	0	10.8TOT	16g		246	1115	 9	9	177	0	183.2  (11.45/g)
I think it's too early to write him off. Now I certainly agree that it's a RBBC in 2009, but I don't think New England is keeping Maroney just because he is cheap, though that does matter. The guy can produce. A good camp can win back the coaches' confidence in him and possibly make him a bigger part of the committee. Great guy to take a flier on as your RB5 or later, IMO.
Click to expand...
I'm in the pro-Maroney camp. What his detractors always fail to mention, is when he was healthy at the end of 07, he played great vs. every team that was not the New York Giants.I think if healthy he is easily the most talented RB on the roster, it's just a matter of staying on the field. What is frustrating to someone else's point, is that they don't seem to use him much in the passing game, which is a shame because his strength is getting him in space where he can use his speed and shiftiness. The few times that Brady would dump a pass to him over the middle would always seem to go for big gains.
Click to expand...
It's easy to conclude that Maroney's solid end to the 2007 season would make him the Pats default go to RB, but I will point out that THE PATRIOTS HAD NO OTHER HEALTHY RB OPTIONS at that time. If people also look back at the solid year by Antowain Smith and the monster year by Dillon a few years later, NE really had no other options to run the ball. Over the last half of BB's tenure with NE, he has made a concerted effort to add RB depth and distribute the ball. In the early days, there would be one guy toting the ball and only really Faulk as a backup. As we enter 2009, Maroney will be getting only $600,000 this year. Faulk will make $3.5 million. Taylor will get a total of $2.3 million. Morris will make slighlty over $1 million. I doubt NE would invest nearly $7 million in RB depth for Maroney to become the featured back.Above and beyond the money, I suspect that all the RBs will have defined roles and none of them will have much more of a workload or production than the others . . . unless of course there are a bunch of injuries and one guy inherits a bigger role.
Click to expand...
I'm speaking more to Maroney's talents than the NE coaching staff's RB philosophy. To that end I agree: If they have multiple horses, they will ride them.
 
tombonneau said:
I'm speaking more to Maroney's talents than the NE coaching staff's RB philosophy. To that end I agree: If they have multiple horses, they will ride them.
Click to expand...
I've said a zillion times that Maroney and NE don't mix very well and he could greatly benefit being in a different team's uniform.That being said, I think some of that falls on the Pats, as I don't think they have called plays that play to his strengths and instead have tried to make him into something he's not.
 
David Yudkin said:
tombonneau said:
I'm speaking more to Maroney's talents than the NE coaching staff's RB philosophy. To that end I agree: If they have multiple horses, they will ride them.
Click to expand...
I've said a zillion times that Maroney and NE don't mix very well and he could greatly benefit being in a different team's uniform.That being said, I think some of that falls on the Pats, as I don't think they have called plays that play to his strengths and instead have tried to make him into something he's not.
Click to expand...
Could not agree more. Outside of some games his rookie year and a nice run of games in 2007/2008 (probably his only sustained effort since being with the Pats) the guy has been pretty pedestrian. You can see the talent but it's just not translating to production and the constant injuries are another big negative. As you said it really isn't a good mix. On paper you would think he'd be a great fit for the Pats but it just hasn't clicked. As far as your other point it's not something you say often (if at all) about Patriot players under BB but the Pats just don't use him correctly (i.e. play to his strengths). They try to use him like they used Dillon and it's just not working. Between his dancing and going down somewhat easily he's not a between the tackles runner. He's much more effective in open space but they rarely use him that way. The few times they do he seems much more comfortable and he can put some pressure on the defense in that capacity.Whether it's this year or next he'll be wearing another uniform. If he matures and can stay healthy he still has a chance to be a good NFL RB. Yet, right now he's been one of the bigger dissapointments in the BB era. I think most Patriot fans (myself included) thought he was going to be a stud after his rookie year. Yet, it's two years later and he's somewhat of an afterthought and anything they get from him now is almost a bonus.
 
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While collectively the backfield will put up good numbers, it will be a fantasy wasteland. Any fantasy owner who thought Mike Shanahan induced headaches were fun is going to love this team. Lots of people in lots of leagues will roll the dice and hope they snag the one RB that will emerge from the pack. The way Belicheck will rotate the backs will keep their hope alive all season long, alternating between starting their player on days when they ride the pine the whole game and then benching their player on the days they actually get some decent yards and an odd TD. Simply put, they will have one wasted roster spot on their team all season long - always hopeful, but always frustrated. Don't be that person.

 
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I asked and was told that the likely outcome for carries at this point is a 10-10-10 split of carries with Taylor/Morris/Maroney and a few here and there for Faulk. This may be the true definition of RBBC.

 
David Yudkin said:
I asked and was told that the likely outcome for carries at this point is a 10-10-10 split of carries with Taylor/Morris/Maroney and a few here and there for Faulk. This may be the true definition of RBBC.
Click to expand...
So about 30 carries between 2 older, sometimes injury-prone RBs and a younger injury-prone RB.When one gets injured, that may be 30 carries between TWO RBs... and now we might be talking some value. We're not likely to get the next out of nowhere stud RB, but a decent RB3-type of guy is just fine.

Not a bad gamble for late round roster-filler.... but certainly not a situation you want to count on. If anything, you can just carry one of these guys and hope he benefits; carrying two or three of them certainly isn't efficient.

 
fatkid said:
For TD heavy leagues, who gets the Goal Line Touches? To me, that is Morris. Maroney dances too much, and Taylor isn't really a big TD guy anymore.I guess Fred Taylor and Maroney fight it out to see who gets normal carries. Morris is the Short Yardage/Goal line back.Faulk has one more year as the 3rd down back
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I agree with Taylor not being a good short yardage-red zone rusher. Its not his fault that he shared a backfield with one of the very best short yardage runner in the NFL.I see this as:40% Taylor20% Maroney(with upside for more)20% Faulk20% Morris(with a chance of not making the roster if Maroney looks good)For where I expect them to be drafted, I think Maroney may be the best bet(Faulk in PPR) I kind of expect Taylor to be pretty hyped come draft day.
 
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Right now here's how I would guess:

Morris/Taylor/Faulk RBBC

Maroney/BJGE will have to outplay or in case of injury out last one of the above.

I don't think either gets cut unless they draft a value RB.

(injury wise what's up with Morris?)

 
ratbast said:
Right now here's how I would guess:Morris/Taylor/Faulk RBBCMaroney/BJGE will have to outplay or in case of injury out last one of the above.I don't think either gets cut unless they draft a value RB.(injury wise what's up with Morris?)
Click to expand...
Why make "guesses" when Yudkin has already weighed in with actual information?
 
travdogg said:
fatkid said:
For TD heavy leagues, who gets the Goal Line Touches? To me, that is Morris. Maroney dances too much, and Taylor isn't really a big TD guy anymore.

I guess Fred Taylor and Maroney fight it out to see who gets normal carries.

Morris is the Short Yardage/Goal line back.

Faulk has one more year as the 3rd down back
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I agree with Taylor not being a good short yardage-red zone rusher. Its not his fault that he shared a backfield with one of the very best short yardage runner in the NFL.I see this as:

40% Taylor

20% Maroney(with upside for more)

20% Faulk

20% Morris(with a chance of not making the roster if Maroney looks good)

For where I expect them to be drafted, I think Maroney may be the best bet(Faulk in PPR) I kind of expect Taylor to be pretty hyped come draft day.
Click to expand...
Morris isn't that expensive, is probably BB's favorite back of the lot (at least running the ball), and has been the most productive member of the RBBC. He's had a 4.6 ypc and 10 TD in 19 games. I don't see him getting released.To further add to the RBBC, the Pats are probably going to draft another RB as their RB corps will be well past 30 or hitting free agency, further muddling the situation.

As for the mathematical breakdown of the carries, the 10-10-10 was more to illustrate an even split than anything else. That would add up to 480 RB carries. In the past 3 seasons, NE RBs have carried the ball 432-399-432 times. So unless the team is going to run a lot more, I don't even see 10-10-10 being the actual breakdown as that's too many carries.

 
travdogg said:
fatkid said:
For TD heavy leagues, who gets the Goal Line Touches? To me, that is Morris. Maroney dances too much, and Taylor isn't really a big TD guy anymore.

I guess Fred Taylor and Maroney fight it out to see who gets normal carries.

Morris is the Short Yardage/Goal line back.

Faulk has one more year as the 3rd down back
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I agree with Taylor not being a good short yardage-red zone rusher. Its not his fault that he shared a backfield with one of the very best short yardage runner in the NFL.I see this as:

40% Taylor

20% Maroney(with upside for more)

20% Faulk

20% Morris(with a chance of not making the roster if Maroney looks good)

For where I expect them to be drafted, I think Maroney may be the best bet(Faulk in PPR) I kind of expect Taylor to be pretty hyped come draft day.
Click to expand...
Hard to believe but in PPR leagues last season Fualk was a Top 20 RB (#19 in my 1PPR league, #22 in .5PPR league and #28 in Non PPR). Even though they pretty much added 2 new backs into the rotation this season, one or two injures this year and they are right back to where they were last year with Faulk being the best value (in PPR) compared to where you can land him late. They guy is under rated every year. BB loves to feed him when it counts and they are under the gun.
 
David Yudkin said:
travdogg said:
fatkid said:
For TD heavy leagues, who gets the Goal Line Touches? To me, that is Morris. Maroney dances too much, and Taylor isn't really a big TD guy anymore.

I guess Fred Taylor and Maroney fight it out to see who gets normal carries.

Morris is the Short Yardage/Goal line back.

Faulk has one more year as the 3rd down back
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I agree with Taylor not being a good short yardage-red zone rusher. Its not his fault that he shared a backfield with one of the very best short yardage runner in the NFL.I see this as:

40% Taylor

20% Maroney(with upside for more)

20% Faulk

20% Morris(with a chance of not making the roster if Maroney looks good)

For where I expect them to be drafted, I think Maroney may be the best bet(Faulk in PPR) I kind of expect Taylor to be pretty hyped come draft day.
Click to expand...
Morris isn't that expensive, is probably BB's favorite back of the lot (at least running the ball), and has been the most productive member of the RBBC. He's had a 4.6 ypc and 10 TD in 19 games. I don't see him getting released.To further add to the RBBC, the Pats are probably going to draft another RB as their RB corps will be well past 30 or hitting free agency, further muddling the situation.

As for the mathematical breakdown of the carries, the 10-10-10 was more to illustrate an even split than anything else. That would add up to 480 RB carries. In the past 3 seasons, NE RBs have carried the ball 432-399-432 times. So unless the team is going to run a lot more, I don't even see 10-10-10 being the actual breakdown as that's too many carries.
Click to expand...
David, have you heard anything about the Pats' interest in Donald Brown? Not that I have, Id just read a day or 2 ago about their visit to UConn, which wasnt anything out of the ordinary. Certainly there were several players worthwhile scouting, but Brown would have to be near the top of that list. And they are certainly long in the tooth at back outside of Maroney. And as you know, that leash is bound to be short at this point. Donald Brown? Any possiblities there at say the top of the 2nd? Does that even make any sense at all with this roster?
 
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