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Seattle starting RB: Jones putting up big numbers (1 Viewer)

Enforcer

Enforcer

Footballguy
I understand that pretty much everyone is going to say its Jones. Everyone except Mike Holmgren. I've been watching this closely since the Jones signing, and Holmgren has said time and time again that they are both starters and are going to share the load. Evidenced again today with the start of training camp in multiple interviews. Holmgren has sounded very forthright and confident in how he's going to use these two players.

Tacoma News Tribune blog

(His expectations of Julius Jones…) “Well I have high hopes for Julius. I think he’s a good football player. He has grasped our offense very well. He’s got a great attitude. I kind of know what I’m asking Mo and Julius to do, in this day and age, you want to be the man, you know, and I’m going to play both of them. I think I’m trying to convince them, and so far they’ve understood it, that it will help both of them and it’ll certainly help our football team if I can keep them both fresh and somewhat healthy through the course of the season by doing it this way. The question will come up later I’m sure, how many snaps and this and that, I’m not going to count them. I’m just going to play it that way. I like Julius Jones and I’m glad we got him.”
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Sando blog at ESPN
Seattle worked in shorts, shoulder pads and (of course) helmets this morning. They won't put on the pads until Sunday morning, which means we won't see Julius Jones working in live action until then. Jones and Maurice Morris are sharing time. I saw Morris with the starters quite a bit today. I'd expect Jones to emerge as the starter eventually, but coach Mike Holmgren said he's approaching the situation right now as if both are starters. In other words, they won't make a decision for some time.
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Again, this isn't a new song Holmgren is singing. This is more repetition of what we were hearing during OTAs. Morris was far and away the most productive RB in Seattle last year and IMO has earned the touches. I believe that Jones is being drafted too early, and Morris too late. IMO Morris is the real value play here and Jones is much more likely to disappoint.
 
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I've been a little surprised at where Jones has been going in mocks. A 14-teamer I'm doing now saw him go somewhere in the top of the 2nd which to me is just outlandish.

Thanks for pointing out this article. With a current ADP of RB58, I think Morris should hold some very good value this year as a RB4.

 
I really don't buy that. I think once Jones asserts himself he will get most of the carries. Even if Morris gets some...Jones should be a good value and i think a borderline RB2. But yea...2nd round?......crazy

 
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I can see where both have far less value then what some will think.

Morris - flatly sucks. No ifs, ands or buts.

But should Jones not secure the job, he will be over valued/drafted.

 
tombonneau said:
I've been a little surprised at where Jones has been going in mocks. A 14-teamer I'm doing now saw him go somewhere in the top of the 2nd which to me is just outlandish. Thanks for pointing out this article. With a current ADP of RB58, I think Morris should hold some very good value this year as a RB4.
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2nd?I've had tons of mocks and 5 reals drafts so far and Jones isn't going anywhere near the 8th, let alone the 2nd. Jones is going to get plenty of reps this year and if you can get him in the 7th I'd grab him. Huge value pick.
 
Routilla said:
Is the SEA OL going to be solid enough for either JJ or MM to be consistent week in and week out?
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The addition of LG Wahle is reason for optimism. Combine this with the subtraction of Alexander and you should see a solid improvement. If you look at the stats from Alexander and Morris last season you'll see that Alexander was working overtime to make the Seattle offensive line look bad. It was obscene. Alexander 207 carries 716 yards 3.5 ypcMorris 140 carries 628 yards 4.5 ypcThe receiving stats are even more telling. Alexander was atrocious last year.
 
BigSteelThrill said:
I can see where both have far less value then what some will think.
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I would agree with Jones having less value. Perhaps Morris when we see how it plays out.
Morris - flatly sucks. No ifs, ands or buts.
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Can I ask what you're basing this on?
But should Jones not secure the job, he will be over valued/drafted.
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I can't disagree with that. It was my purpose for starting this thread. My gut says Jones won't live up to his ADP.
 
I agree with the OP.

2007 stats:

Julius Jones (DAL) rushing: 165/585/2/3.5 receiving: 23/203/0

MoMo (Sea) rushing: 140/628/4/4.5 receiving: 23/213/1

Dallas would have kept JJ if they thought he was good enough to be their RB2. MoMo put up some impressive stats last year and I think he is the value grab here.

 
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Seattle PI Blog

POSITION WATCH

Running back. As obvious as it appears that free-agent addition Julius Jones is the one to replace Shaun Alexander, coach Mike Holmgren reiterated that Jones and incumbent backup Maurice Morris will share the duties.

"I'm looking at it right now as if we have two starters at that position," Holmgren said. "That's how I talk to the players about it and that's how I'm going to kind of approach it during the season."

Holmgren's approach is rooted in trying to keep both players healthy, since neither is as big as Alexander.
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More of the same. Likely from the same press conference. Just from a different beat reporter. That last line is a bit different though. I didn't see any quotes directly from Holmgren mentioning size. I wonder if that's just the beat reporters interpretation.
 
Well, they can't "both" be starters unless he runs the wishbone.

While right now, in the first week of TC, Mo has as much a chance as Jones of being the Seahawks' starter on day one, I think Jones will ultimately beat him out relatively easily and will be the 'hawks starting RB.

 
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Enforcer said:
But should Jones not secure the job, he will be over valued/drafted.
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I can't disagree with that. It was my purpose for starting this thread. My gut says Jones won't live up to his ADP.
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I can respect that. My gut says the opposite. My gut says that in Seattle, Jones will have significantly better stats than he had in Dallas. I believe their blocking scheme is designed for a RB like Jones, and he will fit in seamlessly - and I think he's more talented than Mo.
 
I hate to be the guy to always throw Duckett in the mix, but I really think he has a shot at getting a bulk of the carries. He didn't sign that big contract to be strickly a GL back. I also think Duckett is the best runner of the bunch. His receiving skills hurt him though.

Duckett will be a plesent suprise this season.

 
Max Power said:
I hate to be the guy to always throw Duckett in the mix, but I really think he has a shot at getting a bulk of the carries. He didn't sign that big contract to be strickly a GL back. I also think Duckett is the best runner of the bunch. His receiving skills hurt him though. Duckett will be a plesent suprise this season.
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I have read numerous stories (sorry, no link) that indicate Duckett has been such a huge disappointment that there's a good chance he won't even make the team.
 
BeTheMatch said:
Max Power said:
I hate to be the guy to always throw Duckett in the mix, but I really think he has a shot at getting a bulk of the carries. He didn't sign that big contract to be strickly a GL back. I also think Duckett is the best runner of the bunch. His receiving skills hurt him though. Duckett will be a plesent suprise this season.
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I have read numerous stories (sorry, no link) that indicate Duckett has been such a huge disappointment that there's a good chance he won't even make the team.
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I've only seen one by a local beat writer who said something along the lines of "duckett looked slow and wouldn't make the team if he hadn't signed such a big contract" Considering this was OTAs without pads, I didn't get that story the time of day.
 
Brewzers said:
I agree with the OP.

2007 stats:

Julius Jones (DAL) rushing: 165/585/2/3.5 receiving: 23/203/0

MoMo (Sea) rushing: 140/628/4/4.5 receiving: 23/213/1

Dallas would have kept JJ if they thought he was good enough to be their RB2. MoMo put up some impressive stats last year and I think he is the value grab here.
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I'm not sure I agree with this, based on the contract situation. Dallas had the choice of offering Julius a new contract, or securing a younger RB (Felix) through the draft. They wound up with a younger, more versatile back for less dollars - who probably won't complain as much for being the #2 guy in Dallas.All that said, I do see Julius taking the majority of carries in Dallas, but see his TD totals remaining low. My hunch is he'll be a decent RB3, and his ADP is about consistent with where he should go. I don't see him as an overvalued or undervalued player.

:kicksrock:

 
Max Power said:
I hate to be the guy to always throw Duckett in the mix, but I really think he has a shot at getting a bulk of the carries. He didn't sign that big contract to be strickly a GL back. I also think Duckett is the best runner of the bunch. His receiving skills hurt him though. Duckett will be a plesent suprise this season.
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No he wont. He will be what he has always been, nothing but roster kibble.
 
Mr. Mojo said:
ajopiela said:
I really don't buy that. I think once Jones asserts himself he will get most of the carries. Even if Morris gets some...Jones should be a good value and i think a borderline RB2. But yea...2nd round?......crazy
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:kicksrock:
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Julius Jones just hasn't been very good the last couple years. Is there really reason to think he'll be better while still splitting time? At least Morris has looked good in his limited opportunities.
 
mdog1967 said:
Max Power said:
I hate to be the guy to always throw Duckett in the mix, but I really think he has a shot at getting a bulk of the carries. He didn't sign that big contract to be strickly a GL back. I also think Duckett is the best runner of the bunch. His receiving skills hurt him though. Duckett will be a plesent suprise this season.
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No he wont. He will be what he has always been, nothing but roster kibble.
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What a nice contribution... Please break down for me why Jones and Morris are so far ahead of Duckett that he is irrelevant
 
BeTheMatch said:
Max Power said:
I hate to be the guy to always throw Duckett in the mix, but I really think he has a shot at getting a bulk of the carries. He didn't sign that big contract to be strickly a GL back. I also think Duckett is the best runner of the bunch. His receiving skills hurt him though. Duckett will be a plesent suprise this season.
Click to expand...
I have read numerous stories (sorry, no link) that indicate Duckett has been such a huge disappointment that there's a good chance he won't even make the team.
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:confused:They paid the same money for Duckett as Jones, and he is a Payton (heir apparent) favorite. He will make the team this year, but won't have much of a role - next year OTOH . . .
 
-jb- said:
Brewzers said:
I agree with the OP.

2007 stats:

Julius Jones (DAL) rushing: 165/585/2/3.5 receiving: 23/203/0

MoMo (Sea) rushing: 140/628/4/4.5 receiving: 23/213/1

Dallas would have kept JJ if they thought he was good enough to be their RB2. MoMo put up some impressive stats last year and I think he is the value grab here.
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I'm not sure I agree with this, based on the contract situation. Dallas had the choice of offering Julius a new contract, or securing a younger RB (Felix) through the draft.
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And having more money to pay Barber.I think Jones departure from Dallas was more contract related than performance related, though the Cowboys were clearly not happy with either situation's prospects.

 
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Marc Levin said:
BeTheMatch said:
Max Power said:
I hate to be the guy to always throw Duckett in the mix, but I really think he has a shot at getting a bulk of the carries. He didn't sign that big contract to be strickly a GL back. I also think Duckett is the best runner of the bunch. His receiving skills hurt him though. Duckett will be a plesent suprise this season.
Click to expand...
I have read numerous stories (sorry, no link) that indicate Duckett has been such a huge disappointment that there's a good chance he won't even make the team.
Click to expand...
;)They paid the same money for Duckett as Jones, and he is a Payton (heir apparent) favorite. He will make the team this year, but won't have much of a role - next year OTOH . . .
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Well, I'm not making up what I read. And who is Payton?
 
Marc Levin said:
-jb- said:
Brewzers said:
I agree with the OP.

2007 stats:

Julius Jones (DAL) rushing: 165/585/2/3.5 receiving: 23/203/0

MoMo (Sea) rushing: 140/628/4/4.5 receiving: 23/213/1

Dallas would have kept JJ if they thought he was good enough to be their RB2. MoMo put up some impressive stats last year and I think he is the value grab here.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I agree with this, based on the contract situation. Dallas had the choice of offering Julius a new contract, or securing a younger RB (Felix) through the draft.
Click to expand...
And having more money to pay Barber.I think Jones departure from Dallas was more contract related than performance related, though the Cowboys were clearly not happy with either situation's prospects.
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JJ was in a contract year and turned in 3.5 ypc....hmmm. Dallas completely gave up on JJ down the stretch because he couldn't get it done. MBIII was completely outplaying him. Yeah, I think there were some very serious performance issues. It could be Seattle's running style suits him better, I don't know about that, I just know he couldn't get it done in Dallas with a pretty decent OL.
 
BeTheMatch said:
Marc Levin said:
BeTheMatch said:
Max Power said:
I hate to be the guy to always throw Duckett in the mix, but I really think he has a shot at getting a bulk of the carries. He didn't sign that big contract to be strickly a GL back. I also think Duckett is the best runner of the bunch. His receiving skills hurt him though. Duckett will be a plesent suprise this season.
Click to expand...
I have read numerous stories (sorry, no link) that indicate Duckett has been such a huge disappointment that there's a good chance he won't even make the team.
Click to expand...
;)They paid the same money for Duckett as Jones, and he is a Payton (heir apparent) favorite. He will make the team this year, but won't have much of a role - next year OTOH . . .
Click to expand...
Well, I'm not making up what I read. And who is Payton?
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I think he meant Mora. He coached Duckett in ATL.
 
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Brewzers said:
Marc Levin said:
-jb- said:
Brewzers said:
I agree with the OP.

2007 stats:

Julius Jones (DAL) rushing: 165/585/2/3.5 receiving: 23/203/0

MoMo (Sea) rushing: 140/628/4/4.5 receiving: 23/213/1

Dallas would have kept JJ if they thought he was good enough to be their RB2. MoMo put up some impressive stats last year and I think he is the value grab here.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I agree with this, based on the contract situation. Dallas had the choice of offering Julius a new contract, or securing a younger RB (Felix) through the draft.
Click to expand...
And having more money to pay Barber.I think Jones departure from Dallas was more contract related than performance related, though the Cowboys were clearly not happy with either situation's prospects.
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JJ was in a contract year and turned in 3.5 ypc....hmmm. Dallas completely gave up on JJ down the stretch because he couldn't get it done. MBIII was completely outplaying him. Yeah, I think there were some very serious performance issues. It could be Seattle's running style suits him better, I don't know about that, I just know he couldn't get it done in Dallas with a pretty decent OL.
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So you agree with me - cool. JJ had a bad 2007, but he had a decent 2006. IMO, if his K was not up, the team would not have cut him outright. They were not going to re-sign him, but if performance were the only issue, he would have been gone before the end of last year.
jeter23 said:
BeTheMatch said:
Marc Levin said:
BeTheMatch said:
Max Power said:
I hate to be the guy to always throw Duckett in the mix, but I really think he has a shot at getting a bulk of the carries. He didn't sign that big contract to be strickly a GL back. I also think Duckett is the best runner of the bunch. His receiving skills hurt him though.

Duckett will be a plesent suprise this season.
Click to expand...
I have read numerous stories (sorry, no link) that indicate Duckett has been such a huge disappointment that there's a good chance he won't even make the team.
Click to expand...
:eek: They paid the same money for Duckett as Jones, and he is a Payton (heir apparent) favorite. He will make the team this year, but won't have much of a role - next year OTOH . . .
Click to expand...
Well, I'm not making up what I read. And who is Payton?
Click to expand...
I think he meant Mora. He coached Duckett in ATL.
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Thanks - brain fart. Mora.
 
I think "the rookie" will be playing FB: Owen Shmitt.

Unless you mean Forsett. In which case . . not likely.

 
Enforcer said:
I understand that pretty much everyone is going to say its Jones. Everyone except Mike Holmgren. I've been watching this closely since the Jones signing, and Holmgren has said time and time again that they are both starters and are going to share the load. Evidenced again today with the start of training camp in multiple interviews. Holmgren has sounded very forthright and confident in how he's going to use these two players.

Tacoma News Tribune blog

(His expectations of Julius Jones…) “Well I have high hopes for Julius. I think he’s a good football player. He has grasped our offense very well. He’s got a great attitude. I kind of know what I’m asking Mo and Julius to do, in this day and age, you want to be the man, you know, and I’m going to play both of them. I think I’m trying to convince them, and so far they’ve understood it, that it will help both of them and it’ll certainly help our football team if I can keep them both fresh and somewhat healthy through the course of the season by doing it this way. The question will come up later I’m sure, how many snaps and this and that, I’m not going to count them. I’m just going to play it that way. I like Julius Jones and I’m glad we got him.”
Click to expand...
Sando blog at ESPN
Seattle worked in shorts, shoulder pads and (of course) helmets this morning. They won't put on the pads until Sunday morning, which means we won't see Julius Jones working in live action until then. Jones and Maurice Morris are sharing time. I saw Morris with the starters quite a bit today. I'd expect Jones to emerge as the starter eventually, but coach Mike Holmgren said he's approaching the situation right now as if both are starters. In other words, they won't make a decision for some time.
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Again, this isn't a new song Holmgren is singing. This is more repetition of what we were hearing during OTAs. Morris was far and away the most productive RB in Seattle last year and IMO has earned the touches. I believe that Jones is being drafted too early, and Morris too late. IMO Morris is the real value play here and Jones is much more likely to disappoint.
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I would bet a lot of money that Jones will be the starter and get the more touches than Morris. You have to understand that most of Morris' carries came as a change of pace back and most of Jones carries were used to setup the passing game and Barber. Lastly, if they really liked Morris that much they wouldnt have signed both Jones and Duckett.

 
BigSteelThrill said:
Enforcer said:
Morris - flatly sucks. No ifs, ands or buts.
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Can I ask what you're basing this on?
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I'm a Morris owner since he entered the league in '02. Watched mostly everything he has done.
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Could you be more specific? Does he go down too easily? Does he not block well? Does he not catch the ball well? I'm having a hard time balancing his career stats with your "flatly sucks" comment. We're you just being facetious? Or perhaps you were making your comment in regard to fantasy football as opposed to actual talent on the field. I would agree that Morris has probably been more of a frustration from a fantasy perspective.

 
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cacksman said:
Lastly, if they really liked Morris that much they wouldnt have signed both Jones and Duckett.
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I was expecting this comment. Regardless of how they felt about Morris the team was going to add another RB. That much is certain. But Duckett? No clue how he fits in with this team. Holmgren has said many times that he's unsure of how he's going to utilize Duckett, whereas he's been adamant that he knows exactly how he will use Jones and Morris. Further, the Duckett signing was not Holmgren's choice, but we can be certain that Holmgren will be the deciding who gets the touches.
 
Enforcer said:
BigSteelThrill said:
Enforcer said:
Morris - flatly sucks. No ifs, ands or buts.
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Can I ask what you're basing this on?
Click to expand...
I'm a Morris owner since he entered the league in '02. Watched mostly everything he has done.
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Could you be more specific? Does he go down too easily? Does he not block well? Does he not catch the ball well? I'm having a hard time balancing his career stats with your "flatly sucks" comment. We're you just being facetious? Or perhaps you were making your comment in regard to fantasy football as opposed to actual talent on the field. I would agree that Morris has probably been more of a frustration from a fantasy perspective.
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I don't think he has any assets that are above average. I'd say he's the absolute least talented running back of all the backs in the NFL that has a chance to start.

I have zero faith in him. None. If I had to start him, it would be because I have no other bodies.

I would rather start a starting WR over him.

In fact, that may be the issue... he has numbers like a WR, despite getting a bushel of touches.

With running backs, I expect a modicum of steady results based upon touches.

And considering his team, he should have some consistency at average results. But - nope.

Let me see if I can manipulate the fantasy stats to make my point ( :popcorn: )

This is every regular season game he has had 10+ touches in...

6pt = TD. 1pt = 10 yards, rush -or- rec

Touches - Points

16 - 7

15 - 3

10 - 3

11 - 3

15 - 1

13 - 3

25 - 7

19 - 4

12 - 2

30 - 13

21 - 12

11 - 3

12 - 5

11 - 9

31 - 15*

19 - 15*

17 - 7

16 - 5

15 - 4

17 - 16*

* denotes a TD scored.

Those 5 games in double digits are against the 26th, 22nd, 24th, 25th and 31st rank run defenses for those years.

Color me jaded as a MoMo owner. :own3d:

 
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BigSteelThrill said:
Enforcer said:
BigSteelThrill said:
Enforcer said:
Morris - flatly sucks. No ifs, ands or buts.
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Can I ask what you're basing this on?
Click to expand...
I'm a Morris owner since he entered the league in '02. Watched mostly everything he has done.
Click to expand...
Could you be more specific? Does he go down too easily? Does he not block well? Does he not catch the ball well? I'm having a hard time balancing his career stats with your "flatly sucks" comment. We're you just being facetious? Or perhaps you were making your comment in regard to fantasy football as opposed to actual talent on the field. I would agree that Morris has probably been more of a frustration from a fantasy perspective.
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I don't think he has any assets that are above average. I'd say he's the absolute least talented running back of all the backs in the NFL that has a chance to start.

I have zero faith in him. None. If I had to start him, it would be because I have no other bodies.

I would rather start a starting WR over him.

In fact, that may be the issue... he has numbers like a WR, despite getting a bushel of touches.

With running backs, I expect a modicum of steady results based upon touches.

And considering his team, he should have some consistency at average results. But - nope.

Let me see if I can manipulate the fantasy stats to make my point ( ;) )

This is every regular season game he has had 10+ touches in...

6pt = TD. 1pt = 10 yards, rush -or- rec

Touches - Points

16 - 7

15 - 3

10 - 3

11 - 3

15 - 1

13 - 3

25 - 7

19 - 4

12 - 2

30 - 13

21 - 12

11 - 3

12 - 5

11 - 9

31 - 15*

19 - 15*

17 - 7

16 - 5

15 - 4

17 - 16*

* denotes a TD scored.

Those 5 games in double digits are against the 26th, 22nd, 24th, 25th and 31st rank run defenses for those years.

Color me jaded as a MoMo owner. :bag:
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I have no idea what that means. In 2006 Mo had 161/604/0 & in 2007 140/628/4. I think most people remember his failed attempt to step in for SA in 2006. Very few people saw him perform very well in 2007. I think it comes down to the fact you can pick JJ at whatever over rated price he is going at, but you can get the same production from MoMo at a discount.
 
Brewzers said:
I have no idea what that means. In 2006 Mo had 161/604/0 & in 2007 140/628/4. I think most people remember his failed attempt to step in for SA in 2006. Very few people saw him perform very well in 2007. I think it comes down to the fact you can pick JJ at whatever over rated price he is going at, but you can get the same production from MoMo at a discount.
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It means he is virtually unstartable to me. ;)
 
BigSteelThrill said:
Brewzers said:
I have no idea what that means. In 2006 Mo had 161/604/0 & in 2007 140/628/4. I think most people remember his failed attempt to step in for SA in 2006. Very few people saw him perform very well in 2007. I think it comes down to the fact you can pick JJ at whatever over rated price he is going at, but you can get the same production from MoMo at a discount.
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It means he is virtually unstartable to me. :lmao:
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:lmao: As a starter, Morris makes a good backup. I'm not the biggest Julius fan in the world, but Julius >>> Morris. I am not paying much attention to the coachspeak from Holmgren right now. What else can he say? I see Julius getting a good 60% of the carries, with the rest divided between Morris and Duckett.
 
Anthony Borbely said:
BigSteelThrill said:
Brewzers said:
I have no idea what that means. In 2006 Mo had 161/604/0 & in 2007 140/628/4. I think most people remember his failed attempt to step in for SA in 2006. Very few people saw him perform very well in 2007. I think it comes down to the fact you can pick JJ at whatever over rated price he is going at, but you can get the same production from MoMo at a discount.
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It means he is virtually unstartable to me. :shark:
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:thumbup: As a starter, Morris makes a good backup. I'm not the biggest Julius fan in the world, but Julius >>> Morris. I am not paying much attention to the coachspeak from Holmgren right now. What else can he say?

I see Julius getting a good 60% of the carries, with the rest divided between Morris and Duckett.
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I understand why fans fall into the "coachspeak" frame of mind when analyzing what they hear, but Holmgren has been incredibly forthright with this sort of thing in the past during his Seattle tenure. After Ricky Watters was injured and Shaun Alexander lit it up Holmgren said he would start and play Watters again when he was healthy. He did just that. Last year he said Morris and Alexander would split time through the second half of the year. He did just that. Last year Holmgren said that he would move Engram back to the slot as soon as he had his starters healthy again (even though Engram set a team record for receptions). He did just that. Holmgren approaches press conferences differently than guys like Shanahan and Belicheck.
 
Enforcer said:
Anthony Borbely said:
BigSteelThrill said:
Brewzers said:
I have no idea what that means. In 2006 Mo had 161/604/0 & in 2007 140/628/4. I think most people remember his failed attempt to step in for SA in 2006. Very few people saw him perform very well in 2007. I think it comes down to the fact you can pick JJ at whatever over rated price he is going at, but you can get the same production from MoMo at a discount.
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It means he is virtually unstartable to me. :angry:
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:unsure: As a starter, Morris makes a good backup. I'm not the biggest Julius fan in the world, but Julius >>> Morris. I am not paying much attention to the coachspeak from Holmgren right now. What else can he say?

I see Julius getting a good 60% of the carries, with the rest divided between Morris and Duckett.
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I understand why fans fall into the "coachspeak" frame of mind when analyzing what they hear, but Holmgren has been incredibly forthright with this sort of thing in the past during his Seattle tenure. After Ricky Watters was injured and Shaun Alexander lit it up Holmgren said he would start and play Watters again when he was healthy. He did just that. Last year he said Morris and Alexander would split time through the second half of the year. He did just that. Last year Holmgren said that he would move Engram back to the slot as soon as he had his starters healthy again (even though Engram set a team record for receptions). He did just that. Holmgren approaches press conferences differently than guys like Shanahan and Belicheck.
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The early part of camp along with OTAs is a haven for coachspeak and this is no different, regardless of who the coach is and his reputation for being forthright.
 
I realize this is just the start of camp but this observation from Seahawks Insider is extremely welcome news

-- Mike Wahle is the real deal, and basically stuffed all comers in pass-blocking drills.
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The OL has been a sieve at LG since Hutchinjerk left and Wahle is only a season off from back to back pro bowls. I expect even a "soft" RB like Jones to perform far better than SA did the last 2 seasons. And yes, it will be mostly Jones no matter what other people might be "certain" of. Holmgren has said for years and years that he prefers to give the bulk of work to one back, and just because he's talking a split at the beginning of camp doesn't, IMO, override a decade of talking a different philosophy*. MoMo is an above average backup but has proven time and time again that he can't handle the full load with anything other than average numbers (and yes that includes the fact he ran behind a poor run blocking line). The team wouldn't have brought in someone to "compete" for the starting job (much less two someones) if they though MoMo was their man. Remember when he was an FA he got zero takers, none, nada, zip. He is not an NFL starting RB and Jones will be the main man while being spelled by above average backup Morris. *It's possible in his swan song year that Holmgren will do things a lot different than he has in the past, but for now I'll go by what he's said and done for 10 years versus what he's saying in smokescreen coachspeak first-days-of camp talk. The examples of Homgren's past truthiness actually disprove your points. He stuck with Ricky because he prefers one back to shoulder the load, if he was prone to sharing then that would've been a good time to do so. And Engram is a natural slot player and is where he is most effective in converting first downs as Hass' security blanket. Putting guys back into their normal position after injured players come back is not any type of behavior atypical of most coaches. I think MoMo will be lucky to get 35% of the carries unless Jones just blows, although with Weaver's good hands there could be some interesting 2 back combos with Jones, MoMo or Weaver.

 
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mad sweeney said:
I think MoMo will be lucky to get 35% of the carries unless Jones just blows, although with Weaver's good hands there could be some interesting 2 back combos with Jones, MoMo or Weaver.
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Morris had about one-third of the carries last year. Do you think it will be about this same this year? Or do feel he'll get less?
 
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Enforcer said:
Anthony Borbely said:
BigSteelThrill said:
Brewzers said:
I have no idea what that means. In 2006 Mo had 161/604/0 & in 2007 140/628/4. I think most people remember his failed attempt to step in for SA in 2006. Very few people saw him perform very well in 2007. I think it comes down to the fact you can pick JJ at whatever over rated price he is going at, but you can get the same production from MoMo at a discount.
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It means he is virtually unstartable to me. :shrug:
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:goodposting: As a starter, Morris makes a good backup. I'm not the biggest Julius fan in the world, but Julius >>> Morris. I am not paying much attention to the coachspeak from Holmgren right now. What else can he say?

I see Julius getting a good 60% of the carries, with the rest divided between Morris and Duckett.
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I understand why fans fall into the "coachspeak" frame of mind when analyzing what they hear, but Holmgren has been incredibly forthright with this sort of thing in the past during his Seattle tenure. After Ricky Watters was injured and Shaun Alexander lit it up Holmgren said he would start and play Watters again when he was healthy. He did just that. Last year he said Morris and Alexander would split time through the second half of the year. He did just that. Last year Holmgren said that he would move Engram back to the slot as soon as he had his starters healthy again (even though Engram set a team record for receptions). He did just that. Holmgren approaches press conferences differently than guys like Shanahan and Belicheck.
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Holmgren says a lot of "coachspeak". Last year he was saying how the RT position was up for grabs, when everyone knew it was Locklear's job. This year he said there is a battle for the #2 CB spot, when Jennings is the man, everyone can see that. Holmgren says many things that is coachspeak. Secondly, Jones will be the #1 back.

 
I think "the rookie" will be playing FB: Owen Shmitt.

Unless you mean Forsett. In which case . . not likely.

training camp notes 07-26:

Jones is not only the favorite, Jones starting is a fait accompli. I wouldn't give anymore credence to Holmgren's "two starters" than I would Kelly Jennings' job being endangered. It's a motivational tool, and when all is said and done, I'd be surprised if Morris matches his carries from last season. In fact, I wouldn't be too surprised if Seattle doesn't shop him before the season starts.

Rookie running back Justin Forsett, 5-foot-8 and 194 pounds, can be hard to find out there -- for defenders as well as spectators. He's got some fight, too, at one point winning a tug-of-war for the ball with Lofa Tatupu on the other end. It looked as though Forsett surprised Tatupu with his strength.

It's notable that Forsett continues to impress. Seattle didn't draft the tiny powerback to be cute, or because "his talent was just too good not to". Forsett is the type of hard working overachiever Tim Ruskell favors, and if Morris ends up in another jersey, Forsett will be part of the reason why.

ya never know....

:goodposting:

 
Anthony Borbely said:
BigSteelThrill said:
Brewzers said:
I have no idea what that means. In 2006 Mo had 161/604/0 & in 2007 140/628/4. I think most people remember his failed attempt to step in for SA in 2006. Very few people saw him perform very well in 2007. I think it comes down to the fact you can pick JJ at whatever over rated price he is going at, but you can get the same production from MoMo at a discount.
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It means he is virtually unstartable to me. :lmao:
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:football: As a starter, Morris makes a good backup. I'm not the biggest Julius fan in the world, but Julius >>> Morris. I am not paying much attention to the coachspeak from Holmgren right now. What else can he say? I see Julius getting a good 60% of the carries, with the rest divided between Morris and Duckett.
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Agreed. Maurice Morris is way to inconsistent to be a starter (Fantasy or Reality). The Seahawks better hope JJ is up to the task because MoMo and Duckett aren't.
 
Thanks all for the input. Regardless of who gets the carries I just hope Seattle's running game is better this year and the offense is more balanced. If Jones gets the lion's share of the carries I won't mind at all as long as he's productive. It will be nice to see the screen play become an option again. My gut tells me that Morris will get touches, but I'd be thrilled if Jones is a viable fantasy starter with a monster year keeping Morris on the bench.

 
Another article on this specific subject.

Seahawks double up in the backfield with Julius Jones and Maurice Morris

Backs Jones and Morris will split duties, which should help keep them in top running shape.

By Danny O'Neil

Seattle Times staff reporter

KIRKLAND — When Julius Jones came to Seattle, the assumption was that the Seahawks signed him to be Shaun Alexander's successor.

Well, that was half-right.

Coach Mike Holmgren considers Jones a starter at halfback. It's just that he's not the only one. Holmgren says Maurice Morris is in that same category.

"I'm looking at it right now as if we have two starters at that position," Holmgren said.

Running backs aren't like a religion. You can have more than one, and that's just what Holmgren said he plans to do, following the lead of teams all over the league who are spreading their backfield's workload.

Washington's Clinton Portis led the league in carries last season with 325, the lowest league-leading total since 1990 when Ernest Byner had 297.

In 2007, just six NFL backs logged more than 300 carries, a noticeable drop from previous years — at least nine backs topped 300 in each of the previous seven seasons (see chart).

In Seattle, Holmgren said that sharing is caring when it comes to keeping a pair of shorter backs in top working order.

"It'll certainly help our football team if I can keep them both fresh and somewhat healthy through the course of the season by doing it this way," he said.

That wasn't Seattle's approach with Alexander. He averaged 330 carries in his five most productive seasons with the Seahawks. He ran more than 325 times in three years and carried a league-high 370 times in his MVP season, then hobbled his way through the next two seasons. A broken foot in 2006 cost him six games. He played through a broken wrist in 2007 before being shelved for three games in November because of a sprained knee.

In the same week in March, Seattle signed free agents Jones and T.J. Duckett, whose role is still taking shape and could see time at halfback. The team released Alexander in April.

Was Morris worried about his future with the franchise?

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"No," Morris said. "I approach everything pretty much the same. Just go out there, work hard, and do what I've got to do. Just stay positive."

Morris is a speedy back with a steady demeanor, and after six years as Alexander's backup, his role is about to expand. The reserved Morris admits that's an exciting prospect.

"No doubt," he said. "Anybody in the NFL, as long as you've got a chance to play more, of course you're going to get excited. That's what you're here for. I'm definitely looking forward to it, but I'm approaching it the same way I've always approached it."

Jones is coming from a situation in Dallas where he saw his role gradually recede to Marion Barber. He said Sunday he's not even thinking about the specifics of his role with the Seahawks.

"That's really not on my mind right now," Jones said. "It's really not. I'm new here. I'm still learning the offense, and things will work themselves out. But that's so far from my head right now."

Jones was drafted by Dallas in the second round in 2004, gained more than 800 yards in each of his first three seasons and gained 1,084 yards in 2006. Even then, the distribution of carries between Jones and Barber was a question in Dallas.

As the Cowboys prepared to play the Seahawks in a wild-card round playoff game that year, then-Cowboys coach Bill Parcells was asked whether Jones or Barber could be an every-down back.

"That's a difficult question because if I say no, then I'm minimizing their ability," Parcells said. "And if I say yes, and say, 'OK, I'm going to do that with the player,' I'm probably going to minimize his career.

"There are some special backs in the league that can handle 350, 400 carries a year. Those players are a rare exception. They are not the rule."

And that will not be the role for Jones or Morris this season. At least not if Holmgren follows through on his plan to split time between them.

"The question will come up later I'm sure, how many snaps and this and that," Holmgren said. "I'm not going to them. I'm just going to play it that way."

Danny O'Neil: 206-464-2364 or doneil@seattletimes.com
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Also from the article:Sharing is caring

That has become an unofficial motto in backfields across the NFL, as there were fewer backs in 2007 who carried more than 300 times than at any time since 1999:

Code: 
Year 	NFL leader 	Carries 	300 backs* 	350 backs**2007 	Clinton Portis, Wash. 	325 	6 	02006 	Larry Johnson, Chiefs 	416 	9 	12005 	Shaun Alexander, Seahawks 	370 	10 	42004 	Curtis Martin, Jets 	371 	9 	32003 	Ricky Williams, Dolphins 	392 	13 	42002 	Ricky Williams, Saints 	383 	9 	22001 	Stephen Davis, Panthers 	356 	10 	12000 	Eddie George, Titans 	403 	9 	31999 	Edgerrin James, Colts 	369 	6 	21998 	Jamal Anderson, Falcons 	410 	11 	31997 	Jerome Bettis, Steelers 	375 	6 	3* Number of running backs with more than 300 carries ** Number of running backs with more than 350 carries
 
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From Holmgren's press conference today. Make of it (or ignore it) as you will.

Holmgren said he met with Julius Jones and Mo Morris yesterday and informed them of his plan to have them share carries. He said they both took it well and accepted it. He said he may even rotate who starts and then go with the hot hand. He also said he is asking T.J. Duckett to learn both fullback and halfback spots.
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LINK
 
BigSteelThrill said:
I can see where both have far less value then what some will think.

Morris - flatly sucks. No ifs, ands or buts.

But should Jones not secure the job, he will be over valued/drafted.
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:goodposting: I'd bank on JJ stealing the bulk of the carries in this offense..he's going to be an overachiever in Seattle, IMO..

remember, TJ didn't look good in AZ until he wound up with Chicago, and now the Jets.he's performing well..sometimes, certain players just need a change of scenery ( Priest Holmes went from a nobody to a stud when he arrived in KC)..

 
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