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Big Ben Underrated (1 Viewer)

M

Morton Muffley

Footballguy
Longtime lurker and infrequent poster, but I think a case needs to be made that Roethlisberger is vastly underrated by many (notably the FBG Top 250).

Yeah, he looked rusty against that swarming Jags D, but with upcoming games against Cinci, SD, KC, Oak, and Cle he's gonna knock the rust off real soon.

Pitt began to open up their offense late last year and without Bettis (Davenpoop is no Bettis), I expect Big Ben to get alot more redzone opps.

I think he'll finish the year 3500/22/14

Caveat: I play in a 2QB league so guys like Big Ben present exceptional value, I expect he'll finish the year top 12 and can be had pretty cheaply now.

 
Agreed Mort. As bad as Roethlisberger looked on MNF the Steelers running game looked just as bad...I think once Roethlisberger knocks the rust off that he will become their #1 option in the redzone.

 
I agree here as well. He has 4 WR weapons in Hines, Wilson, Santonio, and Washington. A solid TE in Heath Miller. And two RBs who can catch the ball out of the backfield in Parker and Verron.

Add to that his willingness to run for a TD when the opportunity presents itself and I think it's just a matter of getting the kinks out before Ben becomes a dependable every week starter. I think the Steelers will pass a good deal and not run Parker into the ground during the regular season.

 
Uh, no. Big Ben is a horrible QB. Fantasy QB that is. Awesome NFL QB but horrible as anything other than a bye week fill in. Anyone saying otherwise is a Pittsburgh fan or was foolish enough to draft the guy. The Steelers are a run first, second and third offense. Ben just doesn't get enough plays called for him to pass to be a fantasy threat.

Great NFL QB? :yes: Finishing inside the top 15 in fantasy production at the position? :no:

 
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Borat said:
Shiggy Shaol said:
I agree here as well. He has 4 WR weapons in Hines, Wilson, Santonio, and Washington.
Click to expand...
:confused: Not exactly Bruce, Holt, Hakim, and Proehl.
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No kidding. Outside of Ward, how many 1K seasons or probowls do these guys have? I would just be interested to see if combined do the other 3 have half the NFL receptions as Ward does. I'm gonna head to bed otherwise I would look into this. Can someone else check those stats.....
 
Well here are some numbers from Big Ben's second half last year:

10 games

2000 yards

14 TDs

10 Ints

extrapolated out over 16 games that figures to be:

3200 yards

22 TDs

16 Ints

also, over those 10 games, Bettis scored 9 TDs from inside the 5

So given the above what has changed and what's the impact of the change?

I think:

Bettis is gone

Miller is better

Cowher trusts Ben more

the loss of Randel El is minor

As such, he looks like a top 12 QB to me.

 
TheFanatic said:
Uh, no. Big Ben is a horrible QB. Fantasy QB that is. Awesome NFL QB but horrible as anything other than a bye week fill in. Anyone saying otherwise is a Pittsburgh fan or was foolish enough to draft the guy. The Steelers are a run first, second and third offense. Ben just doesn't get enough plays called for him to pass to be a fantasy threat. Great NFL QB? :yes: Finishing inside the top 15 in fantasy production at the position? :no:
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Interesting take, almost as if you actually believe that the Steelers will never evolve.3500 yards and 25+ TDs are in Roethlisberger's very near future.
 
Morton Muffley said:
Well here are some numbers from Big Ben's second half last year:10 games2000 yards14 TDs10 Intsextrapolated out over 16 games that figures to be:3200 yards22 TDs16 Intsalso, over those 10 games, Bettis scored 9 TDs from inside the 5So given the above what has changed and what's the impact of the change?I think:Bettis is goneMiller is betterCowher trusts Ben morethe loss of Randel El is minorAs such, he looks like a top 12 QB to me.
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He better get more nimble in a BIG hurry or in week 5, Shawn Merriman is going to rip his head off. A few weeks after that, he gets the Ravens for the 1st time. He gets the Ravens in week 16, money ball week. He's a middling backup QB this season, nothing more.
 
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cracKer said:
TheFanatic said:
Uh, no. Big Ben is a horrible QB. Fantasy QB that is. Awesome NFL QB but horrible as anything other than a bye week fill in. Anyone saying otherwise is a Pittsburgh fan or was foolish enough to draft the guy. The Steelers are a run first, second and third offense. Ben just doesn't get enough plays called for him to pass to be a fantasy threat. Great NFL QB? :yes: Finishing inside the top 15 in fantasy production at the position? :no:
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Interesting take, almost as if you actually believe that the Steelers will never evolve.3500 yards and 25+ TDs are in Roethlisberger's very near future.
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An argument could be made that those numbers are already in Ben's past.Ben 2005 reg. season: 12 gamesPassing 2385 yards, 17 TDsRushing 69 yards, 3 TDsBen 2005 post-season:4 gamesPassing 803 yards, 7 TDsRushing 37 yards, 2 TDsBen's 16-game total:Passing 3188 yards, 24 TDsRushing 106 yards 5 TDs206 yards short of 3500 combined, 4 TDs above 25 combinedOK, there is no guarantee that Ben gets the same green light to throw in regular season games as he did throughout most of the postseason, and he has shown difficulty in staying healthy, but for some reason, Ben's combined statistics, and TDs in particular, have slid by most of the FF community.Take 10% off the yardage and 20% off the TDs and you're still left with 3000 yards and 24 TDs. Expecting his yardage totals to increase (instead of decreasing by 10%) is actually more logical, and all it takes to get to 3500 combined yards from 3294 yards is a 6.3% increase. Not exactly huge. This year is hard to predict due to the tumultous offseason Ben experienced, but don't sleep on his 29 TDs last season.
 
Borat said:
Morton Muffley said:
As such, he looks like a top 12 QB to me.
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I guess this is pretty much what it comes down to. You weren't even confident enough to put him in the top 10.Aside from the deeper leagues, who wants a QB in the 11-12 range?He's backup material.
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First, my point of posting was that he is underrated. He's QB23 per FBG and I'm confident sayng he's top 12.Second, I already stated that I'm in a 2QB league, as are others...so this is EXACTLY the kind of value one would be looking for in such a league.Third, if you can't see the value of a borderline starter (i.e. 8-12 range) who's viewed well below that by most, then I can't help you any further.Fourth, the fact that I don't call him guaranteed top 10 is not an argument agaisnt him being underrated.Is this the best you guys can do?
 
TheFanatic said:
Borat said:
Shiggy Shaol said:
I agree here as well. He has 4 WR weapons in Hines, Wilson, Santonio, and Washington.
Click to expand...
:confused: Not exactly Bruce, Holt, Hakim, and Proehl.
Click to expand...
No kidding. Outside of Ward, how many 1K seasons or probowls do these guys have? I would just be interested to see if combined do the other 3 have half the NFL receptions as Ward does. I'm gonna head to bed otherwise I would look into this. Can someone else check those stats.....
Click to expand...
The same thing could be said about the Rams receivers in 1999. I'm not saying they are the same situations, but the Steelers do have a rookie WR who was drafted higher than Holt, a veteran WR like Proehl and a fast WR like Hakim. They also have a much better TE than the Rams.
 
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TheFanatic said:
Uh, no. Big Ben is a horrible QB. Fantasy QB that is. Awesome NFL QB but horrible as anything other than a bye week fill in. Anyone saying otherwise is a Pittsburgh fan or was foolish enough to draft the guy. The Steelers are a run first, second and third offense. Ben just doesn't get enough plays called for him to pass to be a fantasy threat. Great NFL QB? :yes: Finishing inside the top 15 in fantasy production at the position? :no:
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I'm not sure how he finished in FBG scoring last year, but he was there last year in my leagues. In fact, if you take those stats over 12 games and extrapolate (not using playoffs)Passing 2385 yards, 17 TDs (*16/12) = 3,180 yards, 22.6 TDsRushing 69 yards, 3 TDs (*16/12) 92 yards, 4 TDsCompare those to QBs widely considered top 5 and played 16 games last year:Hasselbeck: 3455 yards, 24 TDs, 124 yards, 1 TD Eli Manning: 3762 / 24; 80 / 1FWIW, in my scoring system, had Ben played 16 games and performed the same, he would have finished top 5, ahead of Eli. (there may be other QBs who you can say the same about). You can argue he's an injury risk, and recent history shows he is, but given his ADP of QB24 preseason, that's a risk worth taking.
 
Ben should be a good play this week as I expect he's going to need to air it out a bit against Cincy.

One down side, the weather in Pittsburgh this Sunday is not going to be great: Rain all day and windy.

 
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cstu said:
The same thing could be said about the Rams receivers in 1999. I'm not saying they are the same situations, but the Steelers do have a rookie WR who was drafted higher than Holt, a veteran WR like Proehl and a fast WR like Hakim. They also have a much better TE than the Rams.
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:confused: Where are the Steelers hiding this top-5 overall WR on their roster? I must have missed that pick in this year's draft. Holt was 1.06 in 1999.
 
Mungo Burrows said:
cstu said:
The same thing could be said about the Rams receivers in 1999. I'm not saying they are the same situations, but the Steelers do have a rookie WR who was drafted higher than Holt, a veteran WR like Proehl and a fast WR like Hakim. They also have a much better TE than the Rams.
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:confused: Where are the Steelers hiding this top-5 overall WR on their roster? I must have missed that pick in this year's draft. Holt was 1.06 in 1999.
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Other than Ward, the jury is still out on whether any of the Steelers WRs are any good. I do agree that Heath Miller is a very good TE though, hopefully the Steelers will utilize him as a receiver more this season.One last thing: Holmes has not been practicing this week due to a sore foot (arch). If he doesn't practice today then 3rd round pick Willie Reid will suit up for his first game. Reid looked pretty good in the preseason, especially returning punts.

 
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TheFanatic said:
Uh, no. Big Ben is a horrible QB. Fantasy QB that is. Awesome NFL QB but horrible as anything other than a bye week fill in. Anyone saying otherwise is a Pittsburgh fan or was foolish enough to draft the guy. The Steelers are a run first, second and third offense. Ben just doesn't get enough plays called for him to pass to be a fantasy threat. Great NFL QB? :yes: Finishing inside the top 15 in fantasy production at the position? :no:
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he finished 17th in my league last year while missing 4 games. his PPG average for the games he played was well into the top ten. I'm not saying he's going to do that again, and he's off to a slow start this year...but it's not like we're talking about him growing wings and flying away.
 
I wasn't trying to say that Wilson, Santonio, and Washington were studs/stars. But he does show confidence in throwing to all of them, plus his TE, plus his running backs. I think the Steeler game plan isn't just "pound the ball" these days and when Ben uses his options, he can put up yards and scores.

I just think

a) Ben has talent

b) Ben spreads the ball around to some talented players

c) The Steelers aren't averse to throwing the ball.

 
Godsbrother said:
Mungo Burrows said:
cstu said:
The same thing could be said about the Rams receivers in 1999. I'm not saying they are the same situations, but the Steelers do have a rookie WR who was drafted higher than Holt, a veteran WR like Proehl and a fast WR like Hakim. They also have a much better TE than the Rams.
Click to expand...
:confused: Where are the Steelers hiding this top-5 overall WR on their roster? I must have missed that pick in this year's draft. Holt was 1.06 in 1999.
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Other than Ward, the jury is still out on whether any of the Steelers WRs are any good. I do agree that Heath Miller is a very good TE though, hopefully the Steelers will utilize him as a receiver more this season.One last thing: Holmes has not been practicing this week due to a sore foot (arch). If he doesn't practice today then 3rd round pick Willie Reid will suit up for his first game. Reid looked pretty good in the preseason, especially returning punts.
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I don't agree Godsbrother, Wilson has turned into a nice #2 option, and if Miller were given the targets he would be a monster TE. Nate Washington has been a pleasent suprise, and I believe he is the goods, will be a nice #3 receiver for Ben. Holmes looked terrible in the game Monday night, was never looking back to his QB, maybe rookie mistakes :hopesandprays:, and from what I saw in the pre-season, Reid seems to be "Randle El-ish" from the slot position. The rooks will have to prove themselves, but our top 3WRs and TE are just fine,and can -will produce if called upon IMO.Hey CSTU, we did get Troy Edwards in that draft, just like getting a Holt... :unsure:

 
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Sheriff66 said:
Wilson has turned into a nice #2 option
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I really disagree. I think he needs to go...the sooner Holmes or Washington can step it up to displace this guy, the better. Wilson showed up for a big play here or there in the postseason-- cheers to him for that -- but other than that he hasn't done anything. Little seperation from defenders and nothing noteworthy at all.
 
cracKer said:
TheFanatic said:
Uh, no. Big Ben is a horrible QB. Fantasy QB that is. Awesome NFL QB but horrible as anything other than a bye week fill in. Anyone saying otherwise is a Pittsburgh fan or was foolish enough to draft the guy. The Steelers are a run first, second and third offense. Ben just doesn't get enough plays called for him to pass to be a fantasy threat.

Great NFL QB? :yes: Finishing inside the top 15 in fantasy production at the position? :no:
Click to expand...
Interesting take, almost as if you actually believe that the Steelers will never evolve.3500 yards and 25+ TDs are in Roethlisberger's very near future.
Click to expand...
Let's see, 12 years of smash mouth run, run, run, football. They just won it all running the ball down people's throats. Yeah, now's the time to change it up :rolleyes: BTW, in 2005 Pitt led the league in rushing attempts and was dead last in passing attempts. Did I mention that they led the league in rushing attempts in 2004? Oh, and they were dead last in pass attempts as well in 2004. What else you got?

 
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TheFanatic said:
cracKer said:
TheFanatic said:
Uh, no. Big Ben is a horrible QB. Fantasy QB that is. Awesome NFL QB but horrible as anything other than a bye week fill in. Anyone saying otherwise is a Pittsburgh fan or was foolish enough to draft the guy. The Steelers are a run first, second and third offense. Ben just doesn't get enough plays called for him to pass to be a fantasy threat.

Great NFL QB? :yes: Finishing inside the top 15 in fantasy production at the position? :no:
Click to expand...
Interesting take, almost as if you actually believe that the Steelers will never evolve.3500 yards and 25+ TDs are in Roethlisberger's very near future.
Click to expand...
Let's see, 12 years of smash mouth run, run, run, football. They just won it all running the ball down people's throats. Yeah, now's the time to change it up :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
I think Roethlisberger's a bit more talented than Tommy Maddox, Kordell Stewart, Neil O'Donnell, Bubby Brister, and Mike Tomczak, no? The gameplan does change when you bring in different talent.Plus, I don't think Willie Parker is really a "smashmouth guy".

 
AhrnCityPahnder said:
Sheriff66 said:
Wilson has turned into a nice #2 option
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I really disagree. I think he needs to go...the sooner Holmes or Washington can step it up to displace this guy, the better. Wilson showed up for a big play here or there in the postseason-- cheers to him for that -- but other than that he hasn't done anything. Little seperation from defenders and nothing noteworthy at all.
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To each his own, but he averaged 17.35 a catch last year, and once he learned the offense had a respectable second half of the season and a great playoffs. Holmes should become our #2 ASAP, I agree, way more spreed and big play ability, but to say Wilson is no good is not true IMO. Remember, this is the Steelers, the #2-#3 receivers are not going to get a ton of looks, your not going to get Housh-Henry numbers from them with how much we run...
 
TheFanatic said:
cracKer said:
TheFanatic said:
Uh, no. Big Ben is a horrible QB. Fantasy QB that is. Awesome NFL QB but horrible as anything other than a bye week fill in. Anyone saying otherwise is a Pittsburgh fan or was foolish enough to draft the guy. The Steelers are a run first, second and third offense. Ben just doesn't get enough plays called for him to pass to be a fantasy threat.

Great NFL QB? :yes: Finishing inside the top 15 in fantasy production at the position? :no:
Click to expand...
Interesting take, almost as if you actually believe that the Steelers will never evolve.3500 yards and 25+ TDs are in Roethlisberger's very near future.
Click to expand...
Let's see, 12 years of smash mouth run, run, run, football. They just won it all running the ball down people's throats. Yeah, now's the time to change it up :rolleyes: BTW, in 2005 Pitt led the league in rushing attempts and was dead last in passing attempts. Did I mention that they led the league in rushing attempts in 2004? Oh, and they were dead last in pass attempts as well in 2004. What else you got?
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decaf, buddy. See my post above. How do you account for him being in the top ten (6 or 7, actually) in PPG when he wasn't injured? If you think he's an injury concern, that's fine....but if you think moving fwd he's going to be healthy, there's no reason to think he won't be one of the lower tier QB #1s IMO.

 
Sheriff66 said:
I don't agree Godsbrother, Wilson has turned into a nice #2 option, and if Miller were given the targets he would be a monster TE. Nate Washington has been a pleasent suprise, and I believe he is the goods, will be a nice #3 receiver for Ben. Holmes looked terrible in the game Monday night, was never looking back to his QB, maybe rookie mistakes :hopesandprays:, and from what I saw in the pre-season, Reid seems to be "Randle El-ish" from the slot position. The rooks will have to prove themselves, but our top 3WRs and TE are just fine,and can -will produce if called upon IMO.Hey CSTU, we did get Troy Edwards in that draft, just like getting a Holt... :unsure:
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Wilson is not off to a very good start -- he has 1 catch for 12 yards in the first two games. The season is still early but I expect a little more from a #2 WR. Hopefully he can get on track starting this week.I do agree and said so that Miller is a very good TE and could be great if they start throwing to him more often.Nate Washington has looked pretty good but hasn't proven himself yet. Neither has Holmes or Reid. I am not saying these guys won't turn out to be very good receivers someday but right now the jury is still out.
 
Godsbrother said:
Sheriff66 said:
I don't agree Godsbrother, Wilson has turned into a nice #2 option, and if Miller were given the targets he would be a monster TE. Nate Washington has been a pleasent suprise, and I believe he is the goods, will be a nice #3 receiver for Ben. Holmes looked terrible in the game Monday night, was never looking back to his QB, maybe rookie mistakes :hopesandprays:, and from what I saw in the pre-season, Reid seems to be "Randle El-ish" from the slot position. The rooks will have to prove themselves, but our top 3WRs and TE are just fine,and can -will produce if called upon IMO.Hey CSTU, we did get Troy Edwards in that draft, just like getting a Holt... :unsure:
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Wilson is not off to a very good start -- he has 1 catch for 12 yards in the first two games. The season is still early but I expect a little more from a #2 WR. Hopefully he can get on track starting this week.I do agree and said so that Miller is a very good TE and could be great if they start throwing to him more often.Nate Washington has looked pretty good but hasn't proven himself yet. Neither has Holmes or Reid. I am not saying these guys won't turn out to be very good receivers someday but right now the jury is still out.
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The offense as a whole is not off to a good start, Ben missed the first game and looked quite rusty on Monday night, not to mention a swarming Jags D. I'm not worried about Wilson, it's the running game that should be the concern...
 
Big Ben is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated.

He is a jumped-up caretaker. Think Trent Dilfer with a few better weapons. Just MHO.

 
Morton Muffley said:
I think he'll finish the year 3500/22/14Caveat: I play in a 2QB league so guys like Big Ben present exceptional value, I expect he'll finish the year top 12 and can be had pretty cheaply now.
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Those numbers are a bit high. Ben has already missed the first game and hardly register numbers in the second game. Ben may be around the 12th best QB from here on out, but for the season he will be around 3000 yards, 18-20 TD's, which will be closer to 14-18th in the league.
 
Sabertooth said:
Big Ben is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated. He is a jumped-up caretaker. Think Trent Dilfer with a few better weapons. Just MHO.
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Well, given that he currently ranked as the 23rd best fantasy QB (the rough equivalent of David Carr), I'm assuming you (who consider him waaaaaaay overrated) classify him as what: the 30th best fantasy QB (equal to Aaron Brooks)?or perhaps the 32nd best QB (equal to Kerry Collins)?or perhaps you feel he is soooooo waaaaaay overrated as to fall behind some back-ups, perhaps a better fantasy option for you might be....Volek? or Todd Collins?
 
TheFanatic said:
cracKer said:
TheFanatic said:
Uh, no. Big Ben is a horrible QB. Fantasy QB that is. Awesome NFL QB but horrible as anything other than a bye week fill in. Anyone saying otherwise is a Pittsburgh fan or was foolish enough to draft the guy. The Steelers are a run first, second and third offense. Ben just doesn't get enough plays called for him to pass to be a fantasy threat.

Great NFL QB? :yes: Finishing inside the top 15 in fantasy production at the position? :no:
Click to expand...
Interesting take, almost as if you actually believe that the Steelers will never evolve.3500 yards and 25+ TDs are in Roethlisberger's very near future.
Click to expand...
Let's see, 12 years of smash mouth run, run, run, football. They just won it all running the ball down people's throats. Yeah, now's the time to change it up :rolleyes: BTW, in 2005 Pitt led the league in rushing attempts and was dead last in passing attempts. Did I mention that they led the league in rushing attempts in 2004? Oh, and they were dead last in pass attempts as well in 2004. What else you got?
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How about 2003 when they were 8th in the NFL in passing attempts and 17th in rushing attempts and threw the ball on 57% of their plays? The fact is, if the running game falters, Cowher is not afraid to air it out. If teams stack 9 in the box on every down and dare Pittsburgh to run the ball, they'll throw 25-30 times - the playoffs last year prove that he's not afraid to do it with Roethlisberger either. You've been around long enough to avoid the "year n does not predict year n+1" trap. You can't cherry pick stats - look at the bigger picture.We all know Pittsburgh is always going to look to run the ball first and foremost. However, the reason their run/pass ratio has been SO high is that :

a) They were breaking in a new QB with 0 NFL experience, who was an early-entry to the draft, with only 4 years of QB experience at ANY level.

b) They went 26-6 in the regular season that last two years, meaning there were many games in which they got a lead and Cowher's propensity to take the air out of the ball by running on every down skewed the run/pass ratio greatly.

It's no secret that Cowher and Whisenhunt would like a more balanced attack. As point a continues to become less and less of a factor, and point b begins to regress to the mean (we can't expect to average 13 wins a year forever) - the run/pass ratio will begin to level out more and more. Already this season, we've seen it : they've passed 57 times and run 52 times (20th in the NFL) - and one of these games was with Batch at QB, and the other with Roethlisberger playing his first game since the Super Bowl.

So, what else you got? :popcorn:

 
Sabertooth said:
Big Ben is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated. He is a jumped-up caretaker. Think Trent Dilfer with a few better weapons. Just MHO.
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Not sure what a jumped-up caretaker is but I doubt anyone that has watched the Steelers for the past two seasons would agree with you. Ben has got the goods...
 
Sabertooth said:
Big Ben is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated. He is a jumped-up caretaker. Think Trent Dilfer with a few better weapons. Just MHO.
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Ask the Bengals, Colts, and Broncos fans that watched the AFC playoffs last year if they agree with that.
 
Evilgrin 72 said:
Sabertooth said:
Big Ben is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated. He is a jumped-up caretaker. Think Trent Dilfer with a few better weapons. Just MHO.
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Ask the Bengals, Colts, and Broncos fans that watched the AFC playoffs last year if they agree with that.
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Exactly.One game doesn't make a QB. He has the BEST QB rating of a player with his experience...EVER.He's not a bad QB at all.Edit: MNF told me the above, so I don't know if it's actually true.But, his rating's pretty damn good.
 
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Keys Myaths said:
Evilgrin 72 said:
Sabertooth said:
Big Ben is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated. He is a jumped-up caretaker. Think Trent Dilfer with a few better weapons. Just MHO.
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Ask the Bengals, Colts, and Broncos fans that watched the AFC playoffs last year if they agree with that.
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Exactly.One game doesn't make a QB. He has the BEST QB rating of a player with his experience...EVER.He's not a bad QB at all.Edit: MNF told me the above, so I don't know if it's actually true.But, his rating's pretty damn good.
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People won't drop the "game manager" thing because he doesn't put up gaudy stats. However, the Steelers haven't asked him to throw the ball 40 times a game, it's not their offensive philosophy. So, he's probably never going to put up Peyton Manning-like numbers. He can, and likely will, however, reach the Eli/Hasselbeck/McNabb sort of stats and be a solid second-tier QB1 at some point.He's already proven several times that when asked to go to the air early and often against teams selling out against the run, he can get the job done. He was by far the biggest reason they made it to the Super Bowl as a #6 seed last year - he was their best player in all 3 playoff games, and he won those games with his arm (both throwing and tackling.)
 
AhrnCityPahnder said:
Sheriff66 said:
Wilson has turned into a nice #2 option
Click to expand...
I really disagree. I think he needs to go...the sooner Holmes or Washington can step it up to displace this guy, the better. Wilson showed up for a big play here or there in the postseason-- cheers to him for that -- but other than that he hasn't done anything. Little seperation from defenders and nothing noteworthy at all.
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Agreed 100%, I think Nate Washington is a game or two away from being a starter. He consistently makes plays and has the best size of any of their WRs.
 
Morton Muffley said:
Sabertooth said:
Big Ben is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated. He is a jumped-up caretaker. Think Trent Dilfer with a few better weapons. Just MHO.
Click to expand...
Well, given that he currently ranked as the 23rd best fantasy QB (the rough equivalent of David Carr), I'm assuming you (who consider him waaaaaaay overrated) classify him as what: the 30th best fantasy QB (equal to Aaron Brooks)?or perhaps the 32nd best QB (equal to Kerry Collins)?or perhaps you feel he is soooooo waaaaaay overrated as to fall behind some back-ups, perhaps a better fantasy option for you might be....Volek? or Todd Collins?
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Wait, are we talking fantasy or real life here? 23rd best ranking is about right for fantasy.
 
Godsbrother said:
Sabertooth said:
Big Ben is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated. He is a jumped-up caretaker. Think Trent Dilfer with a few better weapons. Just MHO.
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Not sure what a jumped-up caretaker is but I doubt anyone that has watched the Steelers for the past two seasons would agree with you. Ben has got the goods...
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So did Dilfer. He's won just as many Super Bowls as Ben or Brad Johnson. These are players that are in excellent situations and asked just to not muck it up.
 
Frenchy Fuqua said:
AhrnCityPahnder said:
Sheriff66 said:
Wilson has turned into a nice #2 option
Click to expand...
I really disagree. I think he needs to go...the sooner Holmes or Washington can step it up to displace this guy, the better. Wilson showed up for a big play here or there in the postseason-- cheers to him for that -- but other than that he hasn't done anything. Little seperation from defenders and nothing noteworthy at all.
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Agreed 100%, I think Nate Washington is a game or two away from being a starter. He consistently makes plays and has the best size of any of their WRs.
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I love Washington right now and Holmes and Reid's potential, and think they are the future, but what about Wilson's 17.3 YPC last year ? Should I list the WRs that it was better than ? He's the #2 on the Pittsburgh Steelers, you can only make plays when the ball is thrown your way, I think you guys are selling him short. Am I in love with him as the #2 ? :no: Once he learned the offense he had a good second half of the season last year and a great playoffs. Give the guy some credit...
 
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Sabertooth said:
Godsbrother said:
Sabertooth said:
Big Ben is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated. He is a jumped-up caretaker. Think Trent Dilfer with a few better weapons. Just MHO.
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Not sure what a jumped-up caretaker is but I doubt anyone that has watched the Steelers for the past two seasons would agree with you. Ben has got the goods...
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So did Dilfer. He's won just as many Super Bowls as Ben or Brad Johnson. These are players that are in excellent situations and asked just to not muck it up.
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The Ravens and Bucs won because of their defense. If the Steelers don't have Ben last year, they don't make the playoffs let alone go to the Super Bowl. Ben had two subpar games last year: against Indy and SB XL. Those must have been the only Steelers games you watched last season.
 
Sheriff66 said:
I love Washington right now and Holmes and Reid's potential, and think they are the future, but what about Wilson's 17.3 YPC last year ? Should I list the WRs that it was better than ? He's the #2 on the Pittsburgh Steelers, you can only make plays when the ball is thrown your way, I think you guys are selling him short. Am I in love with him as the #2 ? :no: Once he learned the offense he had a good second half of the season last year and a great playoffs. Give the guy some credit...
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I am not down on Wilson but I am not yet sold on him as the #2. Time will tell.I also like the potential of Washington, Holmes and Reid but right now that is all it is. I really wish that would have kept Quincy Morgan though...
 
Ben is no Carson Palmer, Ben plays well when his team plays well, kind of like a Trent Dilfer, carrying a team on his shoulders is not his strong suit

 
gocats said:
Ben is no Carson Palmer, Ben plays well when his team plays well, kind of like a Trent Dilfer, carrying a team on his shoulders is not his strong suit
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A QB plays well when his team plays well. There's a hell of an analysis. Do you not believe there is some form of reciprocal or symbiotic relationship between a QBs performance and a team's performance?Is it possible that the Steelers' offensive philosophy limits his numbers somewhat? Are you denying the fact that Roethlisberger carried the offense in all 3 playoff wins last year? On what are you basing this? Sure, Palmer has gaudy numbers in comparison, but he throws the ball a lot more. Take a look at opportunity-neutral stats like ypa and tell me what you see. Much, much closer.Also, let's not forget that Ben has 2 AFCC appearances, a Super Bowl ring, a .800+ winning percentage, and a 4-1 record against Palmer.
 
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