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Rand Paul fires first salvo (1 Viewer)

timschochet

timschochet

Footballguy
WASHINGTON - Tea Party superstar Rand Paul bucked the GOP leadership on Sunday by pushing drastic budget-cutting proposals, including a 10% pay slash for federal workers.

Paul, the Republican senator-elect from Kentucky, said on ABC's "This Week" that Social Security, Medicare and defense should also be "on the table."

"You have to look at entitlements," he said.

Paul's specifics on cuts contrasted with the generalities offered by the current and incoming GOP leadership in the House and Senate, indicating that Republicans could be battling each other as much as the Democrats in the new Congress.

Another Tea Party fave, Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.), said, "We're not talking about cuts in Social Security."

Republicans were determined to balance the budget, DeMint said on NBC's "Meet The Press," but "without cutting any benefits to seniors or veterans."

 
timschochet said:
WASHINGTON - Tea Party superstar Rand Paul bucked the GOP leadership on Sunday by pushing drastic budget-cutting proposals, including a 10% pay slash for federal workers.Paul, the Republican senator-elect from Kentucky, said on ABC's "This Week" that Social Security, Medicare and defense should also be "on the table.""You have to look at entitlements," he said.Paul's specifics on cuts contrasted with the generalities offered by the current and incoming GOP leadership in the House and Senate, indicating that Republicans could be battling each other as much as the Democrats in the new Congress.Another Tea Party fave, Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.), said, "We're not talking about cuts in Social Security."Republicans were determined to balance the budget, DeMint said on NBC's "Meet The Press," but "without cutting any benefits to seniors or veterans."
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Thats great, and this is coming from someone who is married to a Gov worker.
 
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This is the main reason why the Republican establishment didn't want Paul in the first place: two different agendas. Their agenda is to make Obama look bad, and increase Republican power. They're not really interested in cutting entitlements or defense, because they know that there's no votes in it. Paul's agenda is to transform America into his vision of a more libertarian country.

 
Starting to like this loon. Cut something anything, do something anything. The house is on fire let's get out of the house and then decide which way to go...right, left, north, south, but get out of the house. PLEASE!!!

 
SHIZNITTTT said:
Starting to like this loon. Cut something anything, do something anything. The house is on fire let's get out of the house and then decide which way to go...right, left, north, south, but get out of the house. PLEASE!!!
Click to expand...
Let's say we cut all federal workers salaries by 10% which is what he proposes. How would that affect the budget? (I have no idea.)
 
This is an example of a post, not a thread. Rand Paul saying something about something that Rand Paul has been saying all along is worth discussion, but it doesn't need its own thread.

 
timschochet said:
SHIZNITTTT said:
Starting to like this loon. Cut something anything, do something anything. The house is on fire let's get out of the house and then decide which way to go...right, left, north, south, but get out of the house. PLEASE!!!
Click to expand...
Let's say we cut all federal workers salaries by 10% which is what he proposes. How would that affect the budget? (I have no idea.)
Click to expand...
Paul had this to say about federal employment and pay:I'm going to look at every program, every program. But I would freeze federal hiring. I would maybe reduce federal employees by 10 percent. I'd probably reduce their wages by 10 percent. The average federal employee makes $120,000 a year. The average private employee makes $60,000 a year. Let's get them more in line, and let's find savings. Let's hire no new federal workers.Yup, tired of seeing people get fat off the government teat. Just a matter of time until Paul is walking in lock step with the RNC and we never hear from this guy again.
 
SHIZNITTTT said:
timschochet said:
SHIZNITTTT said:
Starting to like this loon. Cut something anything, do something anything. The house is on fire let's get out of the house and then decide which way to go...right, left, north, south, but get out of the house. PLEASE!!!
Click to expand...
Let's say we cut all federal workers salaries by 10% which is what he proposes. How would that affect the budget? (I have no idea.)
Click to expand...
Paul had this to say about federal employment and pay:I'm going to look at every program, every program. But I would freeze federal hiring. I would maybe reduce federal employees by 10 percent. I'd probably reduce their wages by 10 percent. The average federal employee makes $120,000 a year. The average private employee makes $60,000 a year. Let's get them more in line, and let's find savings. Let's hire no new federal workers.Yup, tired of seeing people get fat off the government teat. Just a matter of time until Paul is walking in lock step with the RNC and we never hear from this guy again.
Click to expand...
Paul gets it.
 
timschochet said:
If you work for the Feds, you don't fit into Rand Paul's vision of what America should be. Most likely, he would eventually like to see your job eliminated.
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Yeah...I know. It sucks to be hated. :(
SHIZNITTTT said:
timschochet said:
SHIZNITTTT said:
Starting to like this loon. Cut something anything, do something anything. The house is on fire let's get out of the house and then decide which way to go...right, left, north, south, but get out of the house. PLEASE!!!
Click to expand...
Let's say we cut all federal workers salaries by 10% which is what he proposes. How would that affect the budget? (I have no idea.)
Click to expand...
Paul had this to say about federal employment and pay:I'm going to look at every program, every program. But I would freeze federal hiring. I would maybe reduce federal employees by 10 percent. I'd probably reduce their wages by 10 percent. The average federal employee makes $120,000 a year. The average private employee makes $60,000 a year. Let's get them more in line, and let's find savings. Let's hire no new federal workers.Yup, tired of seeing people get fat off the government teat. Just a matter of time until Paul is walking in lock step with the RNC and we never hear from this guy again.
Click to expand...
I don't necessarily have a problem with a hiring freeze or even attrition. Unfortunately, this what sucks about a "one size fits all" solution. I'm much closer to the avg private salary than that $120K number. Look at the GS scale...only the highest of the high (GS 15, Step 10 = very rare positions and this after many, many years) reaches 120K.
 
bostonfred said:
This is an example of a post, not a thread. Rand Paul saying something about something that Rand Paul has been saying all along is worth discussion, but it doesn't need its own thread.
Click to expand...
I found it significant because nearly every Republican since last Tuesday has been asked where the cuts are going to be, and most of them have been very general, and nearly all of them say we don't have to cut Social Security. Paul is one of the first to offer specifics, and he is clearly sticking to his guns. This is going to create some controversy among the Republicans, and it leads to the larger question about whether or not the Tea Party will go along with the GOP establishment or rebel against it. I think this is an interesting topic and would like to get some opinions on it. I appreciate the fact that you have chosen the difficult and unrewarding task of being the arbiter around here as to what is or is not a suitable reason to start a new thread, but it really isn't necessary.
 
The main criticism of Paul has been he is a bit crazy. I say good. It is going to take a little bit of crazy to get our budget in line, and I hope he's crazy enough to continue to press the issue.

 
timschochet said:
WASHINGTON - Tea Party superstar Rand Paul bucked the GOP leadership on Sunday by pushing drastic budget-cutting proposals, including a 10% pay slash for federal workers.Paul, the Republican senator-elect from Kentucky, said on ABC's "This Week" that Social Security, Medicare and defense should also be "on the table.""You have to look at entitlements," he said.Paul's specifics on cuts contrasted with the generalities offered by the current and incoming GOP leadership in the House and Senate, indicating that Republicans could be battling each other as much as the Democrats in the new Congress.Another Tea Party fave, Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.), said, "We're not talking about cuts in Social Security."Republicans were determined to balance the budget, DeMint said on NBC's "Meet The Press," but "without cutting any benefits to seniors or veterans."
Click to expand...
Very insightful post. Please keep us updated. :(
 
SHIZNITTTT said:
timschochet said:
SHIZNITTTT said:
Starting to like this loon. Cut something anything, do something anything. The house is on fire let's get out of the house and then decide which way to go...right, left, north, south, but get out of the house. PLEASE!!!
Click to expand...
Let's say we cut all federal workers salaries by 10% which is what he proposes. How would that affect the budget? (I have no idea.)
Click to expand...
Paul had this to say about federal employment and pay:I'm going to look at every program, every program. But I would freeze federal hiring. I would maybe reduce federal employees by 10 percent. I'd probably reduce their wages by 10 percent. The average federal employee makes $120,000 a year. The average private employee makes $60,000 a year. Let's get them more in line, and let's find savings. Let's hire no new federal workers.

Yup, tired of seeing people get fat off the government teat.

Just a matter of time until Paul is walking in lock step with the RNC and we never hear from this guy again.
Click to expand...
I find this very, very difficult to believe.

Here's the pay scale for federal workers in DC, which is well above average due to the cost of living. The only people making over $120,000 are those at GS-14 and GS-15 levels, which is basically people with postgraduate degrees and significant experience. I find it very difficult to believe that those few people making $120,000 or slightly more, plus a very very few senior specialists and members of Congress making more than that, balance out the millions at GS-11 or lower.

ETA: Here's 2008 numbers saying that the average Federal employee makes $67,000 a year.

I respect what Mr. Paul is trying to do, and even as a Federal employee I'm in favor of a pay freeze and hiring freezes for the time being. But blatant lies are not a good start.

 
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Tea Party: Reduce spending. Everything is on the table! Take the country back from Obama and the leftists!

GOB establishment: Yeah yeah, that's right. Let's get a hold of this deficit, and stop Obama's radical agenda. We are Tea Party guys too! ROWRRRR!

Tea Party: Sweet, we won, let's start axing programs and spending STAT!

GOP Establishment: whoah whoah whoah now, let's not be too hasty- You guys realize you have no power at all, right? We run things up in here!

Tea Party: :mellow:

America: :wall:

 
Uwe Blab said:
timschochet said:
WASHINGTON - Tea Party superstar Rand Paul bucked the GOP leadership on Sunday by pushing drastic budget-cutting proposals, including a 10% pay slash for federal workers.
Click to expand...
:mellow: I work hard and have a family too, guy.
Click to expand...
I worked with the DoD for 26 years. Federal employees in general are overpaid and underworked. I think a 30% pay slash would be about right. You may be an exception, but you are not the rule. And family has nothing to do with it.
 
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pantagrapher said:
Uwe Blab said:
timschochet said:
WASHINGTON - Tea Party superstar Rand Paul bucked the GOP leadership on Sunday by pushing drastic budget-cutting proposals, including a 10% pay slash for federal workers.
Click to expand...
:mellow: I work hard and have a family too, guy.
Click to expand...
The government does not create jobs, so I find it difficult to believe you actually work for the government.
Click to expand...
Dammit, I'm nearly sure you are being sarcastic, but I wish my brain was working properly this morning so I could tell for sure.
 
Uwe Blab said:
timschochet said:
If you work for the Feds, you don't fit into Rand Paul's vision of what America should be. Most likely, he would eventually like to see your job eliminated.
Click to expand...
Yeah...I know. It sucks to be hated. :mellow:
SHIZNITTTT said:
timschochet said:
SHIZNITTTT said:
Starting to like this loon. Cut something anything, do something anything. The house is on fire let's get out of the house and then decide which way to go...right, left, north, south, but get out of the house. PLEASE!!!
Click to expand...
Let's say we cut all federal workers salaries by 10% which is what he proposes. How would that affect the budget? (I have no idea.)
Click to expand...
Paul had this to say about federal employment and pay:I'm going to look at every program, every program. But I would freeze federal hiring. I would maybe reduce federal employees by 10 percent. I'd probably reduce their wages by 10 percent. The average federal employee makes $120,000 a year. The average private employee makes $60,000 a year. Let's get them more in line, and let's find savings. Let's hire no new federal workers.Yup, tired of seeing people get fat off the government teat. Just a matter of time until Paul is walking in lock step with the RNC and we never hear from this guy again.
Click to expand...
I don't necessarily have a problem with a hiring freeze or even attrition. Unfortunately, this what sucks about a "one size fits all" solution. I'm much closer to the avg private salary than that $120K number. Look at the GS scale...only the highest of the high (GS 15, Step 10 = very rare positions and this after many, many years) reaches 120K.
Click to expand...
The big study in March that found federal workers more highly compensated than private workers reported the average federal salary to be a shade under $70K. I assume he is also including benefits in there somewhere.
 
Uwe Blab said:
pantagrapher said:
Uwe Blab said:
timschochet said:
WASHINGTON - Tea Party superstar Rand Paul bucked the GOP leadership on Sunday by pushing drastic budget-cutting proposals, including a 10% pay slash for federal workers.
Click to expand...
:mellow: I work hard and have a family too, guy.
Click to expand...
The government does not create jobs, so I find it difficult to believe you actually work for the government.
Click to expand...
Dammit, I'm nearly sure you are being sarcastic, but I wish my brain was working properly this morning so I could tell for sure.
Click to expand...
If it helps, ever since listening to Rand Paul's victory speech last Tuesday, I've also been on my dad's case to explain who he's really been working for the last 30 years.
 
Would a hiring freeze also extend to military recruitment? Because I'd hate to lose those commercials where Marines fight giant fire monsters.

 
mon said:
Uwe Blab said:
timschochet said:
WASHINGTON - Tea Party superstar Rand Paul bucked the GOP leadership on Sunday by pushing drastic budget-cutting proposals, including a 10% pay slash for federal workers.
Click to expand...
:mellow: I work hard and have a family too, guy.
Click to expand...
I worked with the DoD for 26 years. Federal employees in general are overpaid and underworked. I think a 30% pay slash would be about right. You may be an exception, but you are not the rule. And family has nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...
I doubt DoD would be cut...the mob would never stand to look soft on defense.30%!?!? I love you too... :wall:

 
scoobygang said:
The big study in March that found federal workers more highly compensated than private workers reported the average federal salary to be a shade under $70K. I assume he is also including benefits in there somewhere.
Click to expand...
Yes, googling reveals this is the case. Average civilian government salary was $79,197 in 2008, but with benefits added in it was $119,982.
 
timschochet said:
bostonfred said:
This is an example of a post, not a thread. Rand Paul saying something about something that Rand Paul has been saying all along is worth discussion, but it doesn't need its own thread.
Click to expand...
I found it significant because nearly every Republican since last Tuesday has been asked where the cuts are going to be, and most of them have been very general, and nearly all of them say we don't have to cut Social Security. Paul is one of the first to offer specifics, and he is clearly sticking to his guns. This is going to create some controversy among the Republicans, and it leads to the larger question about whether or not the Tea Party will go along with the GOP establishment or rebel against it. I think this is an interesting topic and would like to get some opinions on it. I appreciate the fact that you have chosen the difficult and unrewarding task of being the arbiter around here as to what is or is not a suitable reason to start a new thread, but it really isn't necessary.
Click to expand...
I'm not the arbiter. I'm just trying to help. I'm not joking with you here or trying to be a bully. This is a great example of a post that you could have added to a large thread on politics and gotten the exact same political discussion from exactly the people who you are interested in talking about this with. Your defense of your post is a good one - I also find this to be interesting enough to discuss somewhere. I just don't know why the "somewhere" needs to be a whole new thread about one comment. But it's worth noting that a substantial number of people have commented to you that they would prefer you not start so many threads. And each time you start a new thread, it seems like you get sucked into a conversation about your own posting style. You've mentioned in the past that you don't like it and don't understand why people feel the need to attack you in these threads. Your strategy so far has been to argue for why this topic deserves to be in its own thread. Do you think that strategy is helping to reduce the frequency with which people complain about your thread starting? Do you think the strategy I'm recommending would help to reduce the frequency with which people complain about your thread starting?
 
scoobygang said:
The big study in March that found federal workers more highly compensated than private workers reported the average federal salary to be a shade under $70K. I assume he is also including benefits in there somewhere.
Click to expand...
That's what I was going to inquire about. Sure we can talk about base salary, but we also have to throw in there the benefits package, which is what I assume a lot of people are after when they are looking at private vs. public jobs.

 
KarmaPolice said:
scoobygang said:
The big study in March that found federal workers more highly compensated than private workers reported the average federal salary to be a shade under $70K. I assume he is also including benefits in there somewhere.
Click to expand...
That's what I was going to inquire about. Sure we can talk about base salary, but we also have to throw in there the benefits package, which is what I assume a lot of people are after when they are looking at private vs. public jobs.
Click to expand...
If that's what he was talking about, then he should do the same for private worker compensation if he's trying to make a comparative point about public vs. private compensation. Otherwise he just sounds like yet another misleading, scapegoating politician.
 
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pantagrapher said:
Uwe Blab said:
pantagrapher said:
Uwe Blab said:
timschochet said:
WASHINGTON - Tea Party superstar Rand Paul bucked the GOP leadership on Sunday by pushing drastic budget-cutting proposals, including a 10% pay slash for federal workers.
Click to expand...
:) I work hard and have a family too, guy.
Click to expand...
The government does not create jobs, so I find it difficult to believe you actually work for the government.
Click to expand...
Dammit, I'm nearly sure you are being sarcastic, but I wish my brain was working properly this morning so I could tell for sure.
Click to expand...
If it helps, ever since listening to Rand Paul's victory speech last Tuesday, I've also been on my dad's case to explain who he's really been working for the last 30 years.
Click to expand...
You should see my wife's face every time I come home from "work". "Where have YOU been all this time!!" :rant:

 
bostonfred said:
timschochet said:
bostonfred said:
This is an example of a post, not a thread. Rand Paul saying something about something that Rand Paul has been saying all along is worth discussion, but it doesn't need its own thread.
Click to expand...
I found it significant because nearly every Republican since last Tuesday has been asked where the cuts are going to be, and most of them have been very general, and nearly all of them say we don't have to cut Social Security. Paul is one of the first to offer specifics, and he is clearly sticking to his guns. This is going to create some controversy among the Republicans, and it leads to the larger question about whether or not the Tea Party will go along with the GOP establishment or rebel against it. I think this is an interesting topic and would like to get some opinions on it. I appreciate the fact that you have chosen the difficult and unrewarding task of being the arbiter around here as to what is or is not a suitable reason to start a new thread, but it really isn't necessary.
Click to expand...
I'm not the arbiter. I'm just trying to help. I'm not joking with you here or trying to be a bully. This is a great example of a post that you could have added to a large thread on politics and gotten the exact same political discussion from exactly the people who you are interested in talking about this with. Your defense of your post is a good one - I also find this to be interesting enough to discuss somewhere. I just don't know why the "somewhere" needs to be a whole new thread about one comment. But it's worth noting that a substantial number of people have commented to you that they would prefer you not start so many threads. And each time you start a new thread, it seems like you get sucked into a conversation about your own posting style. You've mentioned in the past that you don't like it and don't understand why people feel the need to attack you in these threads. Your strategy so far has been to argue for why this topic deserves to be in its own thread. Do you think that strategy is helping to reduce the frequency with which people complain about your thread starting? Do you think the strategy I'm recommending would help to reduce the frequency with which people complain about your thread starting?
Click to expand...
Personally, I'm with timschochet on this one. I'd rather see separate threads for separate topics. I don't want to discuss election results, cuts to Social Security, the 2012 election, and Supreme Court rulings all in one thread. In the Shark Pool, I wouldn't want to discuss the fantasy prospects for Bradshaw, Nicks, and Manning in the same thread just because they all play for the Giants.
 
TobiasFunke said:
KarmaPolice said:
scoobygang said:
The big study in March that found federal workers more highly compensated than private workers reported the average federal salary to be a shade under $70K. I assume he is also including benefits in there somewhere.
Click to expand...
That's what I was going to inquire about. Sure we can talk about base salary, but we also have to throw in there the benefits package, which is what I assume a lot of people are after when they are looking at private vs. public jobs.
Click to expand...
If that's what he was talking about, then he should do the same for private worker compensation if he's trying to make a comparative point about public vs. private compensation.
Click to expand...
He did. 60K is the average salary + benefits for private sector workers.Of course, we've discussed in other threads how misleading these numbers are because the government has a lot more lawyers, accountants, etc. than the private sector, so the comparison isn't apples to apples.

 
Uwe Blab said:
pantagrapher said:
If it helps, ever since listening to Rand Paul's victory speech last Tuesday, I've also been on my dad's case to explain who he's really been working for the last 30 years.
Click to expand...
You should see my wife's face every time I come home from "work". "Where have YOU been all this time!!" :)
Click to expand...
This is all very clever. But I'm suspecting that you both know that theres a big difference between private sector and public sector jobs.
 
Just read the Rolling Stone article blasting Mr. Paul the other day - pretty interesting (and one-sided).

He's a politician, so it's expected, but I do find it a little annoying that he seemed to soften his stance on a quite a few things during the last couple months and tone down the crazy to get elected, now he seems to be going back to what he was a year or so ago. Also like how he talks about cutting government programs but waffles at cutting medicare b/c "doctors deserve to be paid a good wage for what they do" (paraphrasing there). So you are for cutting things, as long as it doesn't effect your pocketbook, right ?

 
I'm sort of surprised at the criticism directed towards Rand so far in the thread. Mostly harping on him wanting to mess with federal employee wages (which I get), but no props for wanting to put defense cuts on the table.

I thought that would get better play here.

 
Black Box said:
I'm sort of surprised at the criticism directed towards Rand so far in the thread. Mostly harping on him wanting to mess with federal employee wages (which I get), but no props for wanting to put defense cuts on the table. I thought that would get better play here.
Click to expand...
It's just something he said on a Sunday talk show. Let's see him introduce some legislation. Hopefully some that doesn't carve out Congressional pay while he's cutting the pay of every other federal worker. With that said, his father was generally an improvement over the typical disingenuous "small government" conservative, so I assume he will be as well.
 
:lmao:

Time to find out if the new Republicans are genuinely interested in lowering the deficit and cutting spending or just flapping their gums like the last administration.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
KarmaPolice said:
pantagrapher said:
The government does not create jobs, so I find it difficult to believe you actually work for the government.
Click to expand...
Care to unpack this a little bit?
Click to expand...
He's being silly saying that "If government doesn't create jobs then what are all those people doing that are working in government?"
Click to expand...
Of course. For me, I'm just hitting more on the lazy, overpaid government worker populism rant that has us all deserving a 10 to 30 (thanks, mon)% across the board pay cut. If they want to audit and look closely at all federal spending, please do. I have zero problem with that...any operation public or private should correct inefficiencies. Its just the rar-rar, screw all federal employee stuff that's makes me give the 'ol rolleyes.
 
Since Paul has little ability to get any traction on his agenda in the Senate in the next couple of years, this sort of feels like the guy who is begging for a fight while his two buddies are holding him back.

 
TobiasFunke said:
KarmaPolice said:
scoobygang said:
The big study in March that found federal workers more highly compensated than private workers reported the average federal salary to be a shade under $70K. I assume he is also including benefits in there somewhere.
Click to expand...
That's what I was going to inquire about. Sure we can talk about base salary, but we also have to throw in there the benefits package, which is what I assume a lot of people are after when they are looking at private vs. public jobs.
Click to expand...
If that's what he was talking about, then he should do the same for private worker compensation if he's trying to make a comparative point about public vs. private compensation. Otherwise he just sounds like yet another misleading, scapegoating politician.
Click to expand...
:shrug:
 
Uwe Blab said:
Of course. For me, I'm just hitting more on the lazy, overpaid government worker populism rant that has us all deserving a 10 to 30 (thanks, mon)% across the board pay cut. If they want to audit and look closely at all federal spending, please do. I have zero problem with that...any operation public or private should correct inefficiencies. Its just the rar-rar, screw all federal employee stuff that's makes me give the 'ol rolleyes.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that nobody I recognize as a regular on this board should be throwing stones on this issue.
 
bigbottom said:
Since Paul has little ability to get any traction on his agenda in the Senate in the next couple of years, this sort of feels like the guy who is begging for a fight while his two buddies are holding him back.
Click to expand...
Or the drunk guy at the end of the bar ranting and raving about how he can take everybody at once while everyone just rolls their eyes and ignores him.
 
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flufhed said:
Tea Party: Reduce spending. Everything is on the table! Take the country back from Obama and the leftists!

GOB establishment: Yeah yeah, that's right. Let's get a hold of this deficit, and stop Obama's radical agenda. We are Tea Party guys too! ROWRRRR!

Tea Party: Sweet, we won, let's start axing programs and spending STAT!

GOP Establishment: whoah whoah whoah now, let's not be too hasty- You guys realize you have no power at all, right? We run things up in here!

Tea Party: :banned:

America: :wall:
Click to expand...
:sarcasm:
 
I work for a private company. Two years ago, everyone was either furloughed to 4 days or took a 10% salary cut...that is, everyone who kept their jobs. Many didn't. We haven't had even a cost-of-living increase since then. It has sucked, but that's what it took to keep the company stable. I see no problem with what he's proposing.

 
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