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There doesn't appear to be any uber-talents for FFBall in this year's draft crew. Several decent young QBs, a few OK RBs and maybe a WR or two. Although, I've only seen a handful of College players myself, only a few seem to have notable statistics in the RB category.... and the nation's top RB is still a year away from being draft eligible (Ingram).
EXACTLY! Why more people don't understand this is quite puzzling.........
i think he's going to be good, particularly considering where you will likely be able to get him in rookie drafts. He's got great size, good hands, he's got good quickness, wins jump balls, and he's dynamic after the catch. However he's not very fast, and he likely won't put up as good numbers at the combine as some of the other top WR prospects, particularly Bryant and Demaryious.At this point he's definitely behind Dez Bryant, who has pretty much all the qualities you look for in a WR. Hard to compare him to Demaryious, its pretty close. Demaryious is a better athlete, but its hard to judge his WR skills since he gets so few targets.
It's a combination of the two.I
my Jayhawks but don't see Briscoe being drafted as a top 5 WR, he will go top 10. He'll be one of the players we'll look to draft in the 2nd round of rookie drafts.
Jonathan Dwyer is a true junior - i.e., he is not draft-eligible until after this season (3rd season removed from HS). Most GT fans anticipate he will leave after this season. Also, he does not play fullback (for those that are not 3O inclined) - he plays the B-Back position, which is essentially the featured back in the system. I'll leave the argument that the 3O is more "real football" than most of the other systems perpetuating the college level now out, as that's a discussion for a different thread.
I'm confident there isn't an NFL scout who prefers Tate to Floyd. Floyd is a beast and belongs in the conversation with Julio and AJ. I would grade him equal to or greater than Bowe at the same career stage. Tate is interesting to watch . He may or may not have an NFL skillset. Josh Reed is a nice call. I have doubts. No doubts about Floyd but health. Major talent under the radar, imo.EBF said:
Yes, I know of Dwyer's draft eligibility status. If I was the kid, or advising the kid, once he sat down with the coach and he told him that he was installing this triple option, elementary, H.S.-level, rinky-dink offense, I would have transferred immediately with at least a couple of years eligibility. My objective is the kids' best interest, I could give one flying F**& about any of these programs if they aren't meeting the kids' needs. And this kid has NFL aspirations and ability, so why waste it in a b.s. offense when he could be at a program that runs modern offense. But here is the main problem here, and it is semantics. In this triple-option, 3O, whatever, offense, Dwyer is lining up 3 yards in the backfield in a 3-PT STANCE, running way too many DIVE plays into the middle of the LOS......Translation, he is essentially a FULLBACK. I don't care if they call it a B-Back, T-Back, who cares, it is the utilization that counts. And this team is featuring him as a fullback from the NFL perspective. Why do tailbacks/halfbacks line up 7 yards deep in a 2-PT STANCE with their head up?....So they can read the damn defense ahead of the play! This is called modern football and this is how pros and serious programs operate. USC will send their 3rd and possibly 4th string RBs to the pros off of their current team. Why? Cause you line up in the I-formation, learn how to pass protect and receive out of the backfield and you go up against elite competition even in practices......G-Tech will have a very difficult time, IMO, being able to recruit premier players into this system. They are fortunate that guys like Dwyer and Demarryius Thomas were already there, but geeeesh, they are vastly misusing these guys' talents and like I said earlier, I would not advise my child nor any other kid to play here on a team where the QB hogs the ball and throws about 10 times a game. Guys are thinking NFL, not some extension of H.S. philosophy......Ridiculous and short-sighted.
Apologies - I thought you were thinking that he should have gone to the NFL after this past season. However, that doesn't change the fact that this post is incredibly incorrect on many levels. Does West Virginia run an NFL offense? How about Michigan? Florida? Hawaii? What about Texas Tech? All of these schools run a version of the spread, not an "NFL" offense. None of them have a problem recruiting or putting players into the NFL. Very few college teams actually run a "NFL" offense.
Any thoughts on Anthony Dixon and LeGarrette Blount? Dixon seems like a powerful, between-the-tackles runner that could be a great workhorse for a team that could pair him with another back--for example, Seattle, if they decide they aren't sold on Forsett carrying the ball 20 times a game.Blount is a headcase, but he seems similar to Gerhart. Will his issues keep people away from him, or will Cincinnati draft him in the 6th round? =p
Nice post. I like how you have Mathews as your #1. I am also intrigued by Delone Carter's prospects. I saw him in the first game of the season against Minnesota, and he impressed me despite having subpar rushing avg. I don't know much about him and it doesnt look like he has any highlights anywhere on the net, but i'm also keeping my eye on him.
I haven't watched any of Dixon's games this season, but I saw him last year and I don't remember being too impressed. Big back. Decent quicks, but nothing spectacular. Given his production this season and the fact that he could be a top 100 draft pick in April, he certainly warrants a second look. I'll have to see if I can dig up some game highlights. I'm more familiar with Blount. I felt he was overrated going into the season. He's a tall back with decent mobility and size. People compare him to Brandon Jacobs, but he's not as physical. He's much more of a finesse runner. He has good long speed and he can break big plays when he gets a crease. I don't think the package will translate very well to the pro game though. He's an upright runner with a high center of gravity, a long stride, and limited elusiveness. Yea, he can make a cut when he gets into the second level, but no one will ever confuse him for Ray Rice. He's sort of a poor man's Beanie Wells. Could be worth a late flyer, but isn't one of the top RB talents in this draft.
Carter is a guy that I drafted out of high school when I used to play in a college dynasty league. He had a promising freshman season, got hurt, and then disappeared. I saw the Minnesota game as well and that's where he caught my eye again. He has a lot of the qualities I look for in a NFL RB. He has a short, squatty frame with good power and he can make difficult lateral cuts. None of the draft sites are really touting him at the moment, but I think he could be a factor in the draft either this year or next (I think he's a junior). He just crossed the 1,000 yard mark last weekend and has exceed 100+ rushing yards in four of his last six games. Unfortunately, he doesn't get much attention because he plays for a losing team in a fairly low profile conference. There's not much video of him up on the internet at the moment, but you can find some of his runs if you're willing to sift through the Syracuse/UConn game highlights at the following link. Scroll down in the box below the video screen:
I'm familiar with him because of his production, but I've never actually seen him play.
Can't remember who you like best between those two CC.i see you've come around to my way of thinking on Matthews. Not that I hold out hope you'll get Spiller and Best right.
I'm actually pretty torn on them too. They are twins in many respects. I went to the lowlights and prefer Spiller. Jahvid's worst stuff is worse than CJs. He can really bail on a play. I also could decide that's the wrong metric, but it's all I got for now. Team, system, coaching, brains, desire... all that stuff will separate them and choosing one now is not really important.I have also had difficulty deciding if I prefer them both to Matthews. I cannot pick one and make the other 3rd or 4th, because they are just too similar. I'm interested in your take, Cecil's etc. I find these two more difficult to separate than any in memory.Can't remember who you like best between those two CC.i see you've come around to my way of thinking on Matthews. Not that I hold out hope you'll get Spiller and Best right.No time for any indepth comments at the moment, but I want to add for everyone critical of this class that it will shape up as a very good class. Not average. Better than average. I spent some time today listing prospects and while lackng marquee talent and having some overrateds bound to disappoint, this group will not lack depth. It will make a serious impact on both the real NFL and fantasy teams. The WR list I compiled today, just perusing conferences, and including many names not mentioned around here as far as I know, is loaded with potential and very deep. And while we're at it, I would be interested in reading Bloom and Waldman split hairs on Best and Spiller. Gentlemen?
Again, I said MODERN OFFENSE, not pro-style offense. A pro-style offense may be a modern offense, but it is not an exclusive relationship. There are many variations of the "Spread Offense" proliferating into the NFL these days, but I have yet to see a triple-option (or 3O as you affectionately call it)with my best RB lined up with his head down in a lineman's stance. It's misusing their talents because Dwyer is in a freakin' 3-PT STANCE all game. With his numbers and measurables, I certainly would think he'd be much higher rated than he currently is as many people are going to question if the numbers are a product of the gimmicky system and if this kid can adjust to seeing the game from the tailback (I-formation) since he has been like an ostrich (head in the dirt) for the past 2 years.......And Demaryius Thomas could very well be a Top 25 selection if he got a little more than 44 receptions, so yeah, you're looking at the little bit of positives when it could be much more. Sorry, I'm not buying into your team's philosophy as it relates to player development. It stunts development for the pro game, without a doubt. Bottom line on the recruitment from is that will play itself out. IMO, G-Tech will NOT get top end talent at the skill positions under this system.........unless they are paying very well under the table.
I know what you mean on the bailing thing. Of course, I used that criteria to pass on CJ in a draft and we can all see how that worked out. I'm predisposed to like Spiller more because I have some relatives who are big Clemson fans and another through marriage that helped recruit Spiller to Clemson. He's at USF now but he still talks about what a great kid Spiller is and I think that's a little different than Best. Plus I like him coming back to get his degree. So for intangibles, I lean Spiller quite a bit. From an on the field perspective though, I do think Best is a little more explosive and less straight line-ish. I would say that Spiller has the higher floor and Best has the higher ceiling. I like Mathews and think he's underrated, but I'm not sure he's better than those two or Dwyer. Just that he should be in the discussion as a "Big 4" RBs if they all come out. Add in Dez Bryant, who should really be #1 in PPR leagues, and you have a nice top 5.I'm actually pretty torn on them too. They are twins in many respects. I went to the lowlights and prefer Spiller. Jahvid's worst stuff is worse than CJs. He can really bail on a play. I also could decide that's the wrong metric, but it's all I got for now. Team, system, coaching, brains, desire... all that stuff will separate them and choosing one now is not really important.I have also had difficulty deciding if I prefer them both to Matthews. I cannot pick one and make the other 3rd or 4th, because they are just too similar. I'm interested in your take, Cecil's etc. I find these two more difficult to separate than any in memory.Can't remember who you like best between those two CC.i see you've come around to my way of thinking on Matthews. Not that I hold out hope you'll get Spiller and Best right.No time for any indepth comments at the moment, but I want to add for everyone critical of this class that it will shape up as a very good class. Not average. Better than average. I spent some time today listing prospects and while lackng marquee talent and having some overrateds bound to disappoint, this group will not lack depth. It will make a serious impact on both the real NFL and fantasy teams. The WR list I compiled today, just perusing conferences, and including many names not mentioned around here as far as I know, is loaded with potential and very deep. And while we're at it, I would be interested in reading Bloom and Waldman split hairs on Best and Spiller. Gentlemen?
Yeah, his sister married my cousin. Great guy. His brother is a good coach too, at SC State. They lost to App State in the FCS playoffs this weekend.
I thought he did good things at Clemson... Anthony Waters probably being his best work.-I suppose I'll chime in on Spiller since I've seen every game of his career. The kid has speed for days and more wiggle than anyone I've ever seen. He also has superior hands and catches everything fluidly. The only knock is that he's not great between the tackles. He's so fast, that he's always to the hole before it develops at which point he starts juking around the line and in the hole. He's gotten better, but it's the weakest aspect of his game. He's the ultimate home-run hitter though, and I fully expect a ~4.3 at the combine. I think his ceiling is Brian Westbrook and his floor is Jerrious Norwood. I think he's an elite prospect.
I'm not so sure who is squattier or better laterally. Best looks skinny in the legs to me.Best pic
How many are worthy? Probably only 1.How many will? About 3. I don't think Benn, Williams, Thomas, Gilyard, etc. are worth first round rookie picks. They will likely get taken there because of the lack of depth in other positions.fruity pebbles said:
I'm not sure if an answer 'right now' matters unless you're drafting this weekend. I'm not being snarky. This is a wierd group of wides, so let them sort out a little bit more. Certainly Bryant and a couple three others will go in the first round, but from a current point of view, I would likely be targeting RB in round 1 and stockpiling two or three WRs from rounds 2-4. I don't agree exactly with the way thriftyrocker worded his answer, but I think the resulting approach to a draft is the same. Let someone else take Benn while you grab an RB then find similar to Benn later when he cannot find similar to your RB.fruity pebbles said:
I agree that Spiller is thicker and I think he is tougher through traffic, but I do think Best is better laterally. He's no Devine though.
Yep, sure do. See Chris Johnson.
I agree 100%. San Diego with Sproles, Jacksonville with MJD are the first two obvious ones that come to mind. I remember 5 years ago guys like Best and Spiller would knocked for their lack of size and now they're projected possible 1st round picks.
Yeah, I have always felt this way though. It just seems hopefully after a few decades the NFL is finally catching up to me. Man, I loved Napoleon Kaufman. And I love Noel Devine. I just think coaches are too pigheaded to give them the ball. I'm convinced Garrett Wolfe would be outproducing Forte this season behind that line but the Bears want to eperiment with Bell, who I know like the back of my hand and is not an NFL talent. He is just the right size though. Dante Hall should have been an RB and so should Dexter McCluster.
CJ is bigger, but I think he has longer legs and inferior weight distribution. This is something that's hard to put into words. You can see it with your eyeballs when they run. Best just looks better proportioned with a shorter stride and smoother cuts. It's kind of like the difference between Ted Ginn and Percy Harvin, although that's a more dramatic example since Harvin is both shorter and heavier than Ginn (whereas Spiller probably has 10-15 pounds on Best). Size will be a problem for both of them. Neither runs with much power. Best is pretty thin. My guess is that he's only 5'8-5'9" 185-195. Spiller looks like he's about 5'11" 205-210. He's definitely bigger. I don't think he's going to be much more effective running inside though. As I mentioned, I don't think he's as fluid laterally and he doesn't strike me as the type of back who will break many tackles at the next level.
But Chris Johnson and Mjd ARE three down, between the tackles running backs.It sounded like what the guy up top was more alluding to was guys like Sproles, Norwood, Washington, Bush, etc who are just used out in space. MJD and CJ4.24 have so much value because they're great out in space AND they're great inbetween the tackles. If a guy can only succeed outside in space, he is definitely less valuable (fantasy wise) than a three down guy. I guess the point here is that little guys can also be good between the tackles, and be three down running backs now. But that's not to say that all they need is to be good in the open field like the top post implies. They still need to be a complete back to hold a fair amount of FF value.
But what does it mean to be a complete back? Why is Chris Johnson a complete back and Reggie Bush (apparently) not? I think it has a lot more to do with attitude than anything like weight or size. When Chris Johnson is running between the tackles, he's not dragging linemen along with him or pushing the pile; he's finding seams, taking what's there, getting the extra yard on contact, and occasionally breaking into the open field where he can do serious damage. The biggest difference between Johnson and Bush is that Bush doesn't like to get hit, and Johnson doesn't mind it.That's why I view Best as closer to Johnson than to Bush. Don't watch the highlight reels; watch his three-yard runs. Best almost always reads the situation correctly (deciding whether to reverse field or to punch it up into the line), lowers his pads and seeks contact. He does a lot of his running between the tackles--in fact, most of Cal's running game is between the tackles.
CalBear said:
It's attitude, vision and the ability to break arm tackles. Reggie Bush never was good at breaking arm tackles. He just almost never needed to at USC. But I think both Spiller and Best are pretty good at breaking arm tackles. And the attitude is important as well, like CalBear said, you need to know when to just get 3 yards and not dance all over the place and get -5 yards. Bush isn't that great at that part of it either.
Are you talking about dancing or about breaking arm tackles? I think he can be decisive. When the play breaks down he definitely tries to Barry, but he is decisive in hitting holes that are there. He is also pretty good at breaking arm tackles, at least at this level. His bench press and squat numbers are pretty great for his size. Like Percy Harvin, I think he is deceptively strong and it will help in yards after contact in the NFL.I'm really interested where he goes in rookie drafts. He is getting type cast as Darren Sproles. But he has so much talent. And I think at the combine, pretty much all measurables he will be clearly better than Sproles. He is not built like a bowling ball like MJD, but if he gets into a 1B role like MJD with Fred, he could have a similar career path.
