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***OFFICIAL Philadelphia Phillies 2010 Thread*** (1 Viewer)

If we can get Halladay (with extension) for just Cliff Lee I'm all for it. If we have to give up Happ, Taylor or Brown, I have my reservations.
Sounds like Brown or Taylor. Have my reservations as well, we'll see, Amaro has earned some slack.
So we're giving up Lee, Taylor/Brown and Seattle prospects for Roy?? Sounds like way too much to me. Maybe we get to keep a Seattle prospect too.
 
If we can get Halladay (with extension) for just Cliff Lee I'm all for it. If we have to give up Happ, Taylor or Brown, I have my reservations.
Well, just Halladay for Lee was never happening. Not thrilled about losing Brown, if he is the piece. Pretty smart move by Amaro though if he knew Lee would give no discount and he wanted the righty.
 
If we can get Halladay (with extension) for just Cliff Lee I'm all for it. If we have to give up Happ, Taylor or Brown, I have my reservations.
Well, just Halladay for Lee was never happening. Not thrilled about losing Brown, if he is the piece. Pretty smart move by Amaro though if he knew Lee would give no discount and he wanted the righty.
This appears to be the case. Kruck said they tried to work out a long term deal with Lee but he didn't want to sign.
 
9:15pm: After going through several incarnations over the last 48 hours, the latest version of the deal has outfielder Michael Taylor, catching prospect Travis D'Arnaud, and a pitcher - either J.A. Happ or Kyle Drabek - going to Toronto, writes Stark in his latest update.Under this scenario, the Phillies would get to hang on to Domonic Brown and would recieve Phillippe Aumont.
Liking this deal less with each update.
 
9:15pm: After going through several incarnations over the last 48 hours, the latest version of the deal has outfielder Michael Taylor, catching prospect Travis D'Arnaud, and a pitcher - either J.A. Happ or Kyle Drabek - going to Toronto, writes Stark in his latest update.Under this scenario, the Phillies would get to hang on to Domonic Brown and would recieve Phillippe Aumont.
Liking this deal less with each update.
It's getting worse...
According to a person with knowledge of the talks, the Phillies have decided to include Drabek in the deal. Drabek had been considered untouchable when the Phillies pursued Halladay in July. The Phillies are also expected to send another prospect to Toronto, either outfielder Michael Taylor or catcher Travis d’Arnaud, according to sources. A person with knowledge of the talks said top outfield prospect Domonic Brown was not in the deal.
We're giving up Lee, Drabek, AND Taylor/d'Arnaud??? Plus a Seattle prospect. Good god.
 
9:15pm: After going through several incarnations over the last 48 hours, the latest version of the deal has outfielder Michael Taylor, catching prospect Travis D'Arnaud, and a pitcher - either J.A. Happ or Kyle Drabek - going to Toronto, writes Stark in his latest update.Under this scenario, the Phillies would get to hang on to Domonic Brown and would recieve Phillippe Aumont.
Liking this deal less with each update.
It's getting worse...
According to a person with knowledge of the talks, the Phillies have decided to include Drabek in the deal. Drabek had been considered untouchable when the Phillies pursued Halladay in July. The Phillies are also expected to send another prospect to Toronto, either outfielder Michael Taylor or catcher Travis d’Arnaud, according to sources. A person with knowledge of the talks said top outfield prospect Domonic Brown was not in the deal.
We're giving up Lee, Drabek, AND Taylor/d'Arnaud??? Plus a Seattle prospect. Good god.
Was really liking the original rumored deal yesterday. But it appears that this Aumont is no slouch of a prospect. just googling him, was 11th overall pick and mlb.com had him at 33rd prospect in league for 2009. Hopefully we can get some good analysis comparing drabek/aumont soon. Funny that two Canadians suppose to come to Phillies in a 3 way deal involving Toronto.
 
If Drabek is a part of this deal, then this was botched pretty badly in-season. You could've had an extra postseason's worth of Halladay, and then you'll have given up all the guys in the Lee deal + all these guys too? I mean, you get one of the top SPs and if you win next year it's worth it, but in retrospect the Phils would've matched up far better against the Yankees with Halladay because you know he would've gone 3 starts in the WS.

 
Almost seems like 2 seperate trades at this point.

BJ's to Phils: Roy Halladay & $6MM

Phils to BJ's: Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor and probably Travis D'Arnaud

Phils to Seattle: Cliff Lee

Seattle to Phils: Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies, and Juan Ramirez

(Some other prospects may be moving around as well)

Looks like the Phils are trading the farm for Halladay and trying to then reload it with Lee.

So with this and the Lee trade we basically did this:

Gave up: Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor (and probably Travis D'Arnaud), Carlos Carrasco, Jason Knapp, Lou Marson Victor Martinez, Jason Donald

Got back: Roy Halladay, Ben Francisco, Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies, Juan Ramirez, $6MM

 
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Sources: Halladay, Lee deal close

If all of the names being bandied about wind up in this deal, the Phillies would get back what Baseball America rates as the Mariners' top two pitching prospects, plus an outfield prospect (Gillies) they view as being similar to Taylor. So although the Phillies would be giving up two of their most highly regarded prospects in Drabek and Taylor, they would look at this deal as not significantly depleting their system for the long haul.
 
If Drabek is a part of this deal, then this was botched pretty badly in-season. You could've had an extra postseason's worth of Halladay, and then you'll have given up all the guys in the Lee deal + all these guys too? I mean, you get one of the top SPs and if you win next year it's worth it, but in retrospect the Phils would've matched up far better against the Yankees with Halladay because you know he would've gone 3 starts in the WS.
They didn't want to get rid of Drabek without having an ace locked up. They tried to go the cheap route with Lee, but when he proved impossible to sign at a discount, they bit the bullet. But really all they did was just switch the type of prospects they now have. They went from Drabek a SP to Aumont who is a closer in waiting. They went from Taylor, who is probably a Jayson Werth clone (and was blocked by him anyway) to Gillies who is a leadoff man type. They went from Lee who is a LHer to Halladay (who's better) and a RHer. And finally, even if the Phils had Halladay and he pitched on 3 days rest, neither Pedro nor Hamels would have done so, so Blanton would have gotten a start anyway and the end result probably would have been the same.
 
Almost seems like 2 seperate trades at this point.BJ's to Phils: Roy Halladay & $6MMPhils to BJ's: Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor and probably Travis D'Arnaud Phils to Seattle: Cliff LeeSeattle to Phils: Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies, and Juan Ramirez(Some other prospects may be moving around as well)Looks like the Phils are trading the farm for Halladay and trying to then reload it with Lee.So with this and the Lee trade we basically did this:Gave up: Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor (and probably Travis D'Arnaud), Carlos Carrasco, Jason Knapp, Lou Marson Victor Martinez, Jason DonaldGot back: Roy Halladay, Ben Francisco, Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies, Juan Ramirez, $6MM
I think one f the keys to this trade is what happens with that 6MM. Do the Phils use that to bolster the bullpen?On the plus side, Halladay is signed up thru 2013 and your starting 4 for 2010 of Halladay, Hamels, Happ, and Blanton is intact. On the downside, who is your best starting pitcher in the minors? Kendrick?
 
Sources: Halladay, Lee deal close

If all of the names being bandied about wind up in this deal, the Phillies would get back what Baseball America rates as the Mariners' top two pitching prospects, plus an outfield prospect (Gillies) they view as being similar to Taylor. So although the Phillies would be giving up two of their most highly regarded prospects in Drabek and Taylor, they would look at this deal as not significantly depleting their system for the long haul.
this would be very nice. it's this guy according to the article you posted.Juan Ramirez

Juan Ramirez (also known as J.C. Ramirez) is one of the Mariners' top pitching prospects and a sort of white whale for me; I chased him for a good part of spring training last year but never saw him, and finally nabbed him Friday after three-plus weeks in Arizona this year.

The 20-year-old right-hander is impressive, with No. 2 starter stuff if he can hold up in the rotation and end-of-game stuff if he ends up in the bullpen. His fastball was 91-96 mph, sitting 93-94 for three innings and then sliding to 91-93 in the fourth, which isn't unusual for this time of year since he hadn't gone past three innings in any prior outing. Most of his fastballs had good glove-side run, although he threw one at 91 with tailing life (probably a two-seamer). He threw only fastballs in the first inning and gave up a few hits as a result, but in the second he started mixing in an above-average slider at 77-80 with a very sharp break. He doesn't have great feel for it but did use it at least twice against lefties to attack the outside corner. He showed a change that was mostly straight but used the slider in almost every changeup count.

This is great deal I think. And if you look at the pitching prospects we get as a wash for drabek, and the outfielders more or less as even swap, then we got halladay for what we gave up in the lee deal and a great contract extension to go along with it.

 
Almost seems like 2 seperate trades at this point.

BJ's to Phils: Roy Halladay & $6MM

Phils to BJ's: Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor and probably Travis D'Arnaud

Phils to Seattle: Cliff Lee

Seattle to Phils: Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies, and Juan Ramirez

(Some other prospects may be moving around as well)

Looks like the Phils are trading the farm for Halladay and trying to then reload it with Lee.

So with this and the Lee trade we basically did this:

Gave up: Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor (and probably Travis D'Arnaud), Carlos Carrasco, Jason Knapp, Lou Marson Victor Martinez, Jason Donald

Got back: Roy Halladay, Ben Francisco, Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies, Juan Ramirez, $6MM
I think one f the keys to this trade is what happens with that 6MM. Do the Phils use that to bolster the bullpen?On the plus side, Halladay is signed up thru 2013 and your starting 4 for 2010 of Halladay, Hamels, Happ, and Blanton is intact. On the downside, who is your best starting pitcher in the minors? Kendrick?
I believe halladay is owed 15 million this year and lee was making 9 million, so the payroll stays the same. Whatever they were gonna do before the trade they will do, no more or less. Bullpen is a priorty they have listed though, I heard(todd zolecki) 140 million was around what they were looking to spend for this years rosters though.
 
How about this game 1 and game 2 of world series...

King Felix/Halladay

Lee/Hamels

Wouldn't mind seeing Gavin Floyd/Hamels also

 
Sources: Halladay, Lee deal close

If all of the names being bandied about wind up in this deal, the Phillies would get back what Baseball America rates as the Mariners' top two pitching prospects, plus an outfield prospect (Gillies) they view as being similar to Taylor. So although the Phillies would be giving up two of their most highly regarded prospects in Drabek and Taylor, they would look at this deal as not significantly depleting their system for the long haul.
this would be very nice. it's this guy according to the article you posted.Juan Ramirez

Juan Ramirez (also known as J.C. Ramirez) is one of the Mariners' top pitching prospects and a sort of white whale for me; I chased him for a good part of spring training last year but never saw him, and finally nabbed him Friday after three-plus weeks in Arizona this year.

The 20-year-old right-hander is impressive, with No. 2 starter stuff if he can hold up in the rotation and end-of-game stuff if he ends up in the bullpen. His fastball was 91-96 mph, sitting 93-94 for three innings and then sliding to 91-93 in the fourth, which isn't unusual for this time of year since he hadn't gone past three innings in any prior outing. Most of his fastballs had good glove-side run, although he threw one at 91 with tailing life (probably a two-seamer). He threw only fastballs in the first inning and gave up a few hits as a result, but in the second he started mixing in an above-average slider at 77-80 with a very sharp break. He doesn't have great feel for it but did use it at least twice against lefties to attack the outside corner. He showed a change that was mostly straight but used the slider in almost every changeup count.

This is great deal I think. And if you look at the pitching prospects we get as a wash for drabek, and the outfielders more or less as even swap, then we got halladay for what we gave up in the lee deal and a great contract extension to go along with it.
Sounds kind of like Carrasco.
 
How about this game 1 and game 2 of world series...King Felix/HalladayLee/HamelsWouldn't mind seeing Gavin Floyd/Hamels also
Mariners = SF Giants.Good pitching. No hitting. Have a hard time seeing them making it past Boston or New York. Felix/BeckettLee/LesterMorrow/Lackey???/Dice KorFelix/CCLee/AJMorrow/PettiteDamn Phillies. Halladay/Lee/Hamels/Blanton = 100+ wins without even trying.
 
The more I see about these prospects they are getting back, the more I am coming around on this deal. I was particularly annoyed because it seemed like they could have just had Halladay and Lee for a year and a half each. With the nucleus signed through then and likely broken up after 2011, I would not have worried about signing either pitcher until I had to.

But now that I look at these prospects, I'm kind of taking Lee as a wash. From the description of the who they are getting from Seattle, I'd say it is about on par with what the Phillies gave up for Lee. Plus he was really a key in their getting back to the postseason and having success.

Losing Drabek and Taylor hurts, but for a guy of Halladay's caliber who is signed for 4 years, it's really a no-brainer.

Plus you have to give Amaro credit for creativity in terms of managing the talent and the payroll.

 
How about this game 1 and game 2 of world series...King Felix/HalladayLee/HamelsWouldn't mind seeing Gavin Floyd/Hamels also
Mariners = SF Giants.Good pitching. No hitting. Have a hard time seeing them making it past Boston or New York. Felix/BeckettLee/LesterMorrow/Lackey???/Dice KorFelix/CCLee/AJMorrow/PettiteDamn Phillies. Halladay/Lee/Hamels/Blanton = 100+ wins without even trying.
Yea, just day dreaming. They aren't the favorites but anytime Felix/Lee go out you got chance of winning no matter who you are playing. At the very least it's nice for Seattle and their fans to finally have something to root for.Seattle, White Sox, Yankees, Red Sox all have some very sick pitching. anything could happen next year.
 
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The more I see about these prospects they are getting back, the more I am coming around on this deal. I was particularly annoyed because it seemed like they could have just had Halladay and Lee for a year and a half each. With the nucleus signed through then and likely broken up after 2011, I would not have worried about signing either pitcher until I had to.

But now that I look at these prospects, I'm kind of taking Lee as a wash. From the description of the who they are getting from Seattle, I'd say it is about on par with what the Phillies gave up for Lee. Plus he was really a key in their getting back to the postseason and having success.

Losing Drabek and Taylor hurts, but for a guy of Halladay's caliber who is signed for 4 years, it's really a no-brainer.

Plus you have to give Amaro credit for creativity in terms of managing the talent and the payroll.
If your referring to getting Halladay last year in addition to Lee, I don't think they wanted to give up Drabek for Halladay without an extension to Halladay. It really sounds like they are getting one heck of a deal on Halladay. Not sure of the amount but its not too many years and isn't a CC type deal. That's what made the difference in getting Halladay now and not before. Also as has been mentioned you can look at it like two deals, the prospects for Halladay and Lee for prospects. It's a shame we can't keep Lee as that would make the Phillies very powerful. I'm not very happy that we can't do 9 million or whatever to Lee for one year to get this super rotation for this year. How many t-shirts do we have to buy or sellouts have to happen. We are far from being the Yankees of the NL in terms of spending.

 
Very good by Amaro but got to give credit to Gillick. Not sure you can say enough about how much relationships/trust goes into making these deals.

 
Hope Taylor didn't make those Toronto flight reservations yet...

Michael Taylor Will Be Traded For Brett Wallace

Michael Taylor Will Be Traded For Brett Wallace

By Ben Nicholson-Smith [December 15, 2009 at 11:04am CST]

The Blue Jays will trade outfielder Michael Taylor to the A's for third base prospect Brett Wallace, according to ESPN.com's Buster Olney.

The A's acquired Wallace from the Cardinals when they sent Matt Holliday to St. Louis in July. The Jays drafted Wallace in 2005, but he went to college and signed with the Cards as a first rounder in the 2008 draft. The 23-year-old hit .281/.403/.438 in the upper minors for the A's and Cards.
 
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Swell...

Blockbuster Trade Reactions

- One veteran talent evaluator tells ESPN.com's Buster Olney that the only clear winner is Seattle.

- ESPN.com's Keith Law likes the prospects Seattle gave up, but doesn't love them. Given that Seattle has other prospects, he says "making a legitimate run at a division title is a pretty good reason to empty out your farm."

- Rob Neyer of ESPN.com agrees with Dave Cameron of U.S.S. Mariner: the deal is a "heist" for the Mariners. Cameron likes the deal so much he tells Mariners fans to "dance in the streets."

- Richard Griffin of the Toronto Star says the Jays "should be embarrassed" by the return they got for Halladay.

- One member of the Phillies organization tells MLB.com's Noah Coslov that he doesn't understand the trade because Michael Taylor is MLB ready now.
 
Swell #2...

Mariners pulling off a heist

Mariners pulling off a heist

By Rob Neyer

Dave Cameron really, really, really likes what the Mariners seem to be doing. The big finish:

This is, quite frankly, a heist. The Mariners are getting a Cy Young caliber pitcher for some decent-but-not-great prospects. They aren’t giving up Morrow. They aren’t giving up Saunders. They aren’t even giving up Triunfel. And yet, they walk away with one of the five or six best pitchers in baseball.

Forget that we probably only have Lee for a year. We’re paying for about two months worth of his services and getting four months for free.

Seriously, dance in the streets. Build a bust of Zduriencik and place it on your mantle. Name your first born son Jack and your daughter Jackie. When this becomes official, hug someone. This trade is that good.

Just summarizing Cameron's math:

One season of Cliff Lee is worth $25 million.

If he leaves as a free agent after next season, the M's will be compensated with a couple of draft picks worth at least $5 million.

The three prospects the M's are supposedly sending to Toronto are worth $13 million.

Lee's salary next season is $8 million.

Got all that?

I'm not sure I do. Cameron says the M's are paying for two months of Lee's services and getting four months for free, but it seems to me that they're paying for four months, and getting two months for free. Right? They're giving up $21 million -- his salary, plus the three prospects -- and getting roughly $30 million of value in return. Which is still one hell of a transaction.

Actually, I do know where the discrepancy comes from. In his analysis, Cameron correctly assumes ranges of value for the unknowns, and I used the lower values of the range because I think a conservative approach is best in these matters. But it doesn't really matter. Cameron's right: It's a heist. And it's worth taking a moment and ruminating about where this franchise is today, and where it was just one year ago.
 
The more I see about these prospects they are getting back, the more I am coming around on this deal. I was particularly annoyed because it seemed like they could have just had Halladay and Lee for a year and a half each. With the nucleus signed through then and likely broken up after 2011, I would not have worried about signing either pitcher until I had to.

But now that I look at these prospects, I'm kind of taking Lee as a wash. From the description of the who they are getting from Seattle, I'd say it is about on par with what the Phillies gave up for Lee. Plus he was really a key in their getting back to the postseason and having success.

Losing Drabek and Taylor hurts, but for a guy of Halladay's caliber who is signed for 4 years, it's really a no-brainer.

Plus you have to give Amaro credit for creativity in terms of managing the talent and the payroll.
If your referring to getting Halladay last year in addition to Lee, I don't think they wanted to give up Drabek for Halladay without an extension to Halladay. It really sounds like they are getting one heck of a deal on Halladay. Not sure of the amount but its not too many years and isn't a CC type deal. That's what made the difference in getting Halladay now and not before.
my point was that I would have traded Drabek regardless of extension issues. So although the Phillies may have had that particular hang-up, there was no external force preventing them from making the deal in July.
 
The Prospect of Trading Halladay

The Prospect of Trading Halladayby Marc Hulet - December 15, 2009

No matter how you slice the Roy Halladay trade, it had to be done and Toronto fans were going to be let down. The trade could have brought three A-level prospects into the system and it still would have hurt… a lot. The rest of the fans around Major League Baseball are finally going to have the opportunity to appreciate Halladay after he’s spent the past 12 years in northern obscurity. The former Cy Young award winner has pitched 200+ innings for four straight seasons and is an undisputed No. 1 pitcher, and those are a lot rarer than most people realize.

Reportedly, there are six prospects changing hands once the trade is finalized. Toronto ends up receiving one A-level prospect and two B-level prospects, or a smidgen more than it would have if the organization had held onto Halladay for the entire 2010 season and then let him walk for two high draft picks. Overall, the talent changing hands in the three-team deal, which also sees Cliff Lee head to Seattle, ranks like this:

1. Kyle Drabek, RHP (from Philadelphia to Toronto)

2. Phillippe Aumont, RHP (from Seattle to Philadelphia)

3. Michael Taylor, OF (from Philadelphia to Toronto)

4. Travis D’Arnaud, C (from Philadelphia to Toronto)

5. Tyson Gillies, OF (from Seattle to Philadelphia)

6. J.C. Ramirez, RHP (from Seattle to Philadelphia)

To be honest, I’m not sure why this was a three-team deal. Toronto received nothing from Seattle. The Phillies organization could have done the deal and taken its the time to deal Lee for a better haul than what it got from Seattle. Perhaps the club wanted to soften the blow of trading off its post-season hero with the acquisition of Halladay? Or why not keep both Halladay and Lee and make a serious run at the World Series in 2010? That two-headed monster at the top of the rotation would have struck fear in any lineup.

But it’s not my job to analyze the overall deal. I’m the prospects guy, so let’s get on to the fun stuff.

The Toronto Blue Jays’ Haul:

Kyle Drabek is the key to the deal and helps to ease the pain from not receiving the Phillies’ top prospect in outfielder Domonic Brown (who definitely is the best player in all three organizations). The Toronto organization has pretty good pitching depth (at least related to its lack of hitting prospects) but Drabek has a higher ceiling (No. 1 or 2 starter) than anyone in the Jays system. The right-hander had a nice year in ‘09 while coming back from Tommy John surgery.

He began the year in high-A and allowed just 49 hits in 61.2 innings. The son of Doug Drabek showed solid control with a walk rate of just 2.77 BB/9 and overpowered hitters, as witnessed by his 10.80 strikeout rate. He also did not allow a home run despite a modest ground-ball rate of 45.2%. Moved up to double-A, the 22-year-old hurler allowed 92 hits in 96.1 innings and saw his strikeout rate drop to 7.10 K/9. His walk rate, though, held steady at 2.90 BB/9. Home runs became a bit of an issue, as Drabek allowed nine homers (0.84 HR/9). His FIP rose from 1.82 to 3.83. He’s going to need to work on his change-up to combat left-handed hitters, who performed well against him in ‘09: .284 compared to right-handers at .185.

On the negative side of Drabek: He’s a little undersized at 6′0”, he’s already had a major surgery, and there have been makeup/maturity concerns.

Michael Taylor had a solid but unspectacular college career at Stanford and signed with the Phillies as a fifth-rounder in ‘07. The outfielder is a good athlete for his size (6′6”, 250 lbs) and stole 21 bases in 26 tries in ‘09. The right-handed hitter, who hits right-handed and left-handed pitchers equally well, began the year in double-A. There, he hit .333/.408/.569 with an ISO of .236 in 318 at-bats. He’s not a big average hitter, despite what the basic numbers suggest and he was aided by a BABIP of .361. In 110 at-bats in triple-A, Taylor hit .282/.359/.491 with an ISO of .209. He projects to be a .270-.290 hitter in the Majors with 25 homers could even produce a couple of 20-20 seasons. He consistently walks about 10% of the time and keeps the strikeouts in check for a power hitter (around 17-18%). Defensively, Taylor has a solid arm and has spent much of his time in the minors flipping between left and right field.

Travis D’Arnaud is a former highly-regarded prep draft pick. The ‘07 supplemental first rounder has actually been surpassed as a prospect by his older brother Chase D’Arnaud, a shortstop who was a fourth-round pick of the Pirates out of Pepperdine University in ‘08. Nonetheless, the 20-year-old catcher had a solid ‘09 season in low-A ball and hit .255/.319/.419 in 482 at-bats. The right-handed hitter has some developing pop (.164 ISO) and modest strikeout rates (15.6% in ‘09). His triple-slash line was hurt by a low .279 BABIP, which was down significantly from his ‘08 mark of .345. D’Arnaud is a good athlete and he stole eight bases in 12 tries, but he’ll certainly slow down as the rigors of the position take its toll on his knees. Despite a strong arm, the young catcher has struggled to throw out base runners in pro ball and was successful 23% of the time in ‘09.

Philadelphia Phillies’ Haul:

You certainly cannot question Phillippe Aumont’s fastball. He has a high-90s fastball and good sink but his secondary stuff is raw and he prefers to just reach back and toss heat, which is the main reason why he was moved from the starting rotation to the bullpen at such a young age. An inexperienced Canadian prep pick, Aumont was pushed aggressively by Seattle after he dominated high-A ball in a very good hitter’s league. He allowed just 24 hits in 33.1 innings and posted a strikeout rate of 9.45 K/9. Moved up to double-A, Aumont’s control suffered as his walk rate jumped from 3.24 to 5.60 BB/9. Batters also managed 21 hits in 17.2 innings, and his BABIP jumped to .436 BABIP. His strikeout rate was an impressive 12.23 K/9. Like many Canadian hurlers, there have also been injury concerns with Aumont, and he missed significant time in ‘08 with elbow soreness.

You’d think it was the Phillies club that played in Canada, not the Jays. Outfielder Tyson Gillies joins Aumont as the two Canadians on the move in the Halladay deal. The 21-year-old outfielder had a breakout season in ‘09 but some caution needs to be used with him. The left-handed hitter was playing in a very good hitter’s park and his overall line was .341/.430/.486. He hit .313 in ‘08 but that was aided by a BABIP of .403 (His BABIP was high in ‘09, as well, at .395). Gillies has a lot of speed and he stole 44 bases but was caught 19 times this past season, so he has some work to do on the base paths. On the positive side, he has solid plate rates for a speedster and he posted a walk rate of 10.8%, as well as a strikeout rate of 16.3%. Defensively, he’s considered a gifted fielder with an above-average arm.

J.C. Ramirez has posted solid pro numbers but has yet to truly breakout. The right-hander spent ‘09 in high-A, while pitching in a good hitter’s park, and allowed 153 hits in 142.1 innings. His walk rate was respectable at 3.35 BB/9 and his strikeout rate was OK at 7.02, although it was down more than one strikeout per nine over his career mark. He was touched up for 18 homers (1.14 HR/9) but he held batters to a line-drive rate of just 12%. Ramirez has consistently struggled against left-handed batters in his career (.290 average, 4.32 BB/9 in ‘09), so he’s going to have to develop a weapon to combat them. His repertoire includes a fastball that sits in the low-90s but can hit the mid-to-upper 90s at times. Ramirez also has a solid slider and a developing change-up.
 
I have to admit I'm a little bit disappointed. Although having a 140 million dollar payroll, the Phils organization cheaped out. Since this isn't sounding like a three way deal, why couldn't we keep Lee for this year?? The Lee trade has turned into a salary dump and/or restock of the farm, neither of which I care about. If you really need to move payroll, send Blanton and his 7 million packing for a bag of balls and you're only adding 2 million with the Roy trade. We very easily could have Halladay, Lee, Hamels, and Happ in the rotation and won the NL today and fielded a much better team to go against the Yanks and Red Sox. Amaro, and moreso ownership, came up small.

 
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I have to admit I'm a little bit disappointed. Although having a 140 million dollar payroll, the Phils organization cheaped out. Since this isn't sounding like a three way deal, why couldn't we keep Lee for this year?? The Lee trade has turned into a salary dump and/or restock of the farm, neither of which I care about. If you really need to move payroll, send Blanton and his 7 million packing for a bag of balls and you're only adding 2 million with the Roy trade. We very easily could have Halladay, Lee, Hamels, and Happ in the rotation and won the NL today and fielded a much better team to go against the Yanks and Red Sox. Amaro, and moreso ownership, came up small.
I understand the restocking of the farm system and I'm fine with that but my thought if that is these are two separate trades, why do you need to do the Cliff Lee one right away? Maybe they did their homework and checked with all clubs to see what type of prospects they could get back but seems like they could have waited a bit longer and shopped around through the offseason. Also, did we get the max value back for him that we could? From some of the writeups I've seen it looks like we could have possibly gotten more. He's a stud that's at a reasonable price and comes with 2 free bonus draft picks when the team that trades for him would lose him to free agency next year. The top prospects we got back seem to be a potential reliever / closer with a degenerative hip condition and an outfielder that wears a hearing aid.Then again I'm sure all involved in the Phils organization know alot more about these things then I do so who am I to doubt them, but those are just my initial thoughts on the deals.
 
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Whomever gave Jamie Moyer his contract is the real culprit here. A budget is a budget though. Essentially with Toronto paying 6 million, its a wash on the books.

 
Whomever gave Jamie Moyer his contract is the real culprit here. A budget is a budget though. Essentially with Toronto paying 6 million, its a wash on the books.
true. I forget if it was here or on BSG, but someone mentioned that the best thing in the world would be for Moyer to just retire.
 
I have to admit I'm a little bit disappointed. Although having a 140 million dollar payroll, the Phils organization cheaped out. Since this isn't sounding like a three way deal, why couldn't we keep Lee for this year?? The Lee trade has turned into a salary dump and/or restock of the farm, neither of which I care about. If you really need to move payroll, send Blanton and his 7 million packing for a bag of balls and you're only adding 2 million with the Roy trade. We very easily could have Halladay, Lee, Hamels, and Happ in the rotation and won the NL today and fielded a much better team to go against the Yanks and Red Sox. Amaro, and moreso ownership, came up small.
I understand the restocking of the farm system and I'm fine with that but my thought if that is these are two separate trades, why do you need to do the Cliff Lee one right away? Maybe they did their homework and checked with all clubs to see what type of prospects they could get back but seems like they could have waited a bit longer and shopped around through the offseason. Also, did we get the max value back for him that we could? From some of the writeups I've seen it looks like we could have possibly gotten more. He's a stud that's at a reasonable price and comes with 2 free bonus draft picks when the team that trades for him would lose him to free agency next year. The top prospects we got back seem to be a potential reliever / closer with a degenerative hip condition and an outfielder that wears a hearing aid.Then again I'm sure all involved in the Phils organization know alot more about these things then I do so who am I to doubt them, but those are just my initial thoughts on the deals.
All valid points and they've all crossed my mind too. I'm sure Amaro was on the phone with potential suitors to max out his return, but he hurt the value of his own player. Amaro came out and said he thought he couldn't sign him and that Lee would test the market no matter what. Well who in their right mind is going to give up grade A prospects for a sure one year rental? That was part of the reason Amaro gave for the willingness to trade him, which is a cover up for budget restrictions, but all it did was hurt Amaro's return for Lee.It's pretty ridiculous that we're not dancing in the streets for getting Roy Halladay. It's been tempered by the loss of Lee. Wierd. If Lee wasn't so good in the postseason, we wouldn't be wondering what could've been, as much as we are.Anyway, things will get alot easier once we see Roy going 4 scoreless innings in his first ST start. I am pretty pumped to see him pitch with this kind of team behind him. Easy 20 game winner if healthy?
 
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Behind on posting the news in this thread...

Baez: 'Easy decision' to join PhilliesVeteran righty reliever signs two-year, $5.25 million deal 01/05/10 7:43 PM ESTPHILADELPHIA -- Danys Baez should handle Philadelphia just fine.Baez signed a two-year, $5.25 million contract with the Phillies on Tuesday, which adds him to a bullpen that includes Brad Lidge, J.C. Romero, Ryan Madson and Chad Durbin -- if everybody is healthy. Baez has closing experience, which could come in handy if Lidge and Romero are unable to start the season following offseason elbow surgeries. Baez, 32, can handle the pressure. He defected from Cuba in 1999 following the Pan American Games in Winnipeg, Canada. Asked Tuesday at Citizens Bank Park what he remembers about that day, Baez didn't miss a beat. "Everything," he said. "You can't forget anything about that day. It was a great day. It was a huge decision, but everything worked." He said after he defected the Cuban government suspended his parents' visas for five years, but they have since joined him in the United States. Baez lives in Miami, in the same neighborhood as Phillies left fielder Raul Ibanez and third baseman Placido Polanco. Baez said his brother Dennis remains in Cuba. "Hopefully I can go back one day, but not now," he said. Right now, Baez is in Philadelphia. He will make $2.5 million in 2010 and $2.75 million in '11. His signing means right-hander Chan Ho Park will not return. Phillies general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. also said Tuesday that negotiations have probably ended with left-hander Scott Eyre, who they offered a Minor League contract. Baez went 4-6 with a 4.02 ERA in 59 appearances last season with the Orioles. He had Tommy John surgery in October 2007, which forced him to miss the entire '08 season. Baez said he felt healthy throughout last season, which is important considering the health uncertainties with Lidge and Romero. "I can pitch anywhere, anytime," Baez said. "Just give me the ball." Baez recorded four or more outs 18 times last season. Amaro said they feel Baez is durable enough to pitch back-to-back days and more than one inning on occasion. That would be valuable because that is the role Park held last season. "He doesn't care when he pitches, just that he does [pitch]," Amaro said.Amaro said they had interest in Baez early, and it picked up when they realized they would not be able to meet Park's price. "It was an easy decision to come over here with a team that has been in the World Series two years in a row, and has a good chance to be back," Baez said. "There are a lot of teams looking for help in the bullpen, but when you have a team like the Phillies, it's an easy decision."
 
FYI, first post updated...

Offseason moves so far:

January 7, 2010 - Signed Dane Sardinha © to a Minor League contract.

January 6, 2010 - Signed RP Danys Baez to a two-year contract.

December 16, 2009 - Trade Cliff Lee to the Mariners for Phillippe Aumont, JC Ramirez, and outfielder Tyson Gillies.

December 16, 2009 - Trade Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor, and Travis D'Arnaud to the Blue Jays for Roy Halladay.

December 11, 2009 - Signed Chris Duffy (OF) to a Minor League contract.

December 11, 2009 - Signed Cody Ransom (3B) to a Minor League contract.

December 8, 2009 - Signed OF/1B Ross Gload to a two-year $2.6 MM contract.

December 3, 2009 - Signed 2B (now 3B) Placido Polanco to a three-year $18MM contract with mutual option for a fourth.

December 3, 2009 - Signed IF Juan Castro to a one-year $750K contract with club option for 2011.

December 1, 2009 - Signed catcher Brian Schneider to a two-year contract. ($1.25MM in 2010 & $1.5MM in 2011)

November 25, 2009 - Signed Paul Hoover ©, Andy Tracy (1B), Wilson Valdez (SS), and Dewayne Wise (OF) to Minor League contracts.

November 17, 2009 - Eric Bruntlett refused an outright assignment to Lehigh Valley and elected to become a FA.

November 9, 2009 - Declined to exercise the 2010 option ($5.5MM) on 3B Pedro Feliz.

November 6, 2009 - Exercised the 2010 contract option ($9MM) on LHP Cliff Lee.

Free Agents:

Pedro Feliz - Signed by Houston to one-year $4.5 MM contract.

Clay Condrey - Signed by Minneapolis to one-year contract.

Eric Bruntlett - Signed by Washington to one-year Minor League contract.

Jack Taschner - Signed by Pittsburgh to one-year Minor League contract.

Scott Eyre - Retired

Pedro Martinez

Brett Myers

Chan Ho Park

Matt Stairs

Paul Bako

Miguel Cairo

Tyler Walker

Arbitration Eligible:

Shane Victorino

Carlos Ruiz

Joe Blanton

Chad Durbin
 
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/2010..._3_players.html

The Phillies exchanged salary figures with their three arbitration-eligible players yesterday and are furthest apart with pitcher Joe Blanton.

Blanton asked for $10.25 million :goodposting: :shrug:

while the Phillies offered $7.5 million. Blanton, who was 12-8 with a 4.05 ERA, made $5.475 million last season and will be a free agent after the 2010 season.

The two sides are closer with outfielder Shane Victorino, who requested $5.8 million. The Phillies offered him $4.75 million. Victorino made $3.25 million last season.

And catcher Carlos Ruiz is seeking $2.5 million, with the Phillies having offered $1.7 million. Ruiz made $475,000 in 2009.
 
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/2010..._3_players.html

The Phillies exchanged salary figures with their three arbitration-eligible players yesterday and are furthest apart with pitcher Joe Blanton.

Blanton asked for $10.25 million :confused: :confused:

while the Phillies offered $7.5 million. Blanton, who was 12-8 with a 4.05 ERA, made $5.475 million last season and will be a free agent after the 2010 season.

The two sides are closer with outfielder Shane Victorino, who requested $5.8 million. The Phillies offered him $4.75 million. Victorino made $3.25 million last season.

And catcher Carlos Ruiz is seeking $2.5 million, with the Phillies having offered $1.7 million. Ruiz made $475,000 in 2009.
In the meantime, the Phils have reached 3-year extensions with Blanton, Victoino and Ruiz.Looks like the player they won't re-sign is Werth.

Hope Domonic Brown is ready for 2011.

 
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/2010..._3_players.html

The Phillies exchanged salary figures with their three arbitration-eligible players yesterday and are furthest apart with pitcher Joe Blanton.

Blanton asked for $10.25 million :lmao: :lmao:

while the Phillies offered $7.5 million. Blanton, who was 12-8 with a 4.05 ERA, made $5.475 million last season and will be a free agent after the 2010 season.

The two sides are closer with outfielder Shane Victorino, who requested $5.8 million. The Phillies offered him $4.75 million. Victorino made $3.25 million last season.

And catcher Carlos Ruiz is seeking $2.5 million, with the Phillies having offered $1.7 million. Ruiz made $475,000 in 2009.
Looks like the player they won't re-sign is Werth.
Seems like the prudent move. Another 30-HR season and he is going to command a huge salary. Might as well save the money for the chance at signing Howard when he comes due.
 
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/2010..._3_players.html

The Phillies exchanged salary figures with their three arbitration-eligible players yesterday and are furthest apart with pitcher Joe Blanton.

Blanton asked for $10.25 million :confused: :lmao:

while the Phillies offered $7.5 million. Blanton, who was 12-8 with a 4.05 ERA, made $5.475 million last season and will be a free agent after the 2010 season.

The two sides are closer with outfielder Shane Victorino, who requested $5.8 million. The Phillies offered him $4.75 million. Victorino made $3.25 million last season.

And catcher Carlos Ruiz is seeking $2.5 million, with the Phillies having offered $1.7 million. Ruiz made $475,000 in 2009.
In the meantime, the Phils have reached 3-year extensions with Blanton, Victoino and Ruiz.Looks like the player they won't re-sign is Werth.

Hope Domonic Brown is ready for 2011.
Brown is a LH hitter.
 
4x champ said:
Also read today the Phils are breaking out the old school powder blue roadies May 14th at Milwaukee to help celebrate their 40th anniversary. :shrug:
Should wear them at home for at least one game. :shrug: About to pull the trigger on a McGraw or Schmidt myself...

Powder Blues

 

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