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How do you not trade for Ben? (1 Viewer)

B

bryan215

Footballguy
You are the GM for Oakland, Buffalo, St L.

You are presented with an offer two 1st round college players who could turn out to be good/great in 3-5 years...or who could be total busts. They will both get huge contracts with big guarantees.

or

Ben Roethlisberger

How do you not choose the 2nd option?

You get a Pro-Bowl QB who is 28 and easily has 5 good years left in him...he also has a manageable contract. Sure he has a sullied image but so did Brandon Marshall, Ray Lewis, Mike Vick, etc etc.

The Rams are thinking of drafting a QB who isn't even a lock to be viewed as the best overall player in the draft. He was recently injured and he'll be taking more hits than David Carr next year. You really think he is better than 50/50 to ever go on and become a Pro-Bowl QB?

The Raiders...well we won't even go there. You suck at drafting and as a bonus you get to cut JRussell and not have him count against the cap in future years.

Buffalo...same thing. Odds are Big Ben the next 5 years will be > than the sum of your 2010 and 2011 1st rounders.

So why aren't these teams offering to trade for Ben...the real question is would the Steelers say Yes.

 
As a Bills fan I would take him over Bradford right away. Suspension or no, he is a really good QB and would be the best we have had in 10 years?

 
I like Ben, think he's talented and all.....

But the Raiders need to fix the lines. It wouldn't matter if we had Peyton Manning, we need to protect better.

Average QB + great line > good QB + below avg line.

 
the more comfortable you are he can avoid repeat incidents, the more the trade makes sense...

imo, if the steelers weren't seriously concerned, they wouldn't be so potentially willing to move him...

given they are his employers, and are in the best possible position to evaluate his character, if they are worried, shouldn't other potential employers?

 
Bob Magaw said:
the more comfortable you are he can avoid repeat incidents, the more the trade makes sense...imo, if the steelers weren't seriously concerned, they wouldn't be so potentially willing to move him... given they are his employers, and are in the best possible position to evaluate his character, if they are worried, shouldn't other potential employers?
Click to expand...
Other potential employers should be worried. But the public outcry is affecting the Rooney family's judgment. More than it should anyway. They already gave away Santonio Holmes in haste. They are making emotional decsions. They are vulnerable to a one sided trade to appease the fanbase. If the price is right, he could be a good value.
 
because you don't want to risk him having our laundry on when he actually gets caught?

if teams knew for a fact he was innocent of the various accusations, and knew for a fact he would never do anything like that, i'm sure they'd be interested. then again, were that the case, i'm sure the Steelers wouldn't be shopping him.

but there really isn't a lot of mystery about the answer to this question.

 
Because despite the reputation for discipline and the "Steeler way" the Rooney's would never really trade him. They're complete hypocrites.

See: Harrison, James/ Wilson, Cedric

 
Hang 10 said:
Because despite the reputation for discipline and the "Steeler way" the Rooney's would never really trade him. They're complete hypocrites.See: Harrison, James/ Wilson, Cedric
Click to expand...
Don't bandy words like hypocrite around when you can't back it up. Those two situations were different, for one, and secondly, of course there's going to be some level of double-standard on any team. Harrison had a private domestic flare-up, told the team about it immediately, it was worked out between he and his SO, and no charges were filed. Wilson punched a girl in the face at a restaurant in front of 100 people. From a PR standpoint, they're hardly comparable. Stars will always get a little more leeway because of the money the team has tied up in that player. You think every team in the league gives away their top receiver (and SB MVP just 15 months ago) in his prime for a late 5th rounder just because of some weed issues? Personally, I don't think it was a good trade AT ALL, but they were willing to cut Holmes if they got nothing for him. It upsets me as a fan because I don't really care if Holmes hits the bong or not as long as he's there on Sunday, but that's not good enough for the Rooneys.Roethlisberger was not found guilty of any crime, except maybe hubris and a sense of entitlement. In today's gossip-driven society, we can't seem to get enough info as to what athletes are doing with their schvantzes. If you want to think ben is a "scumbag", fine, but he hasn't done anything illegal and he's a single guy. Bottom line is that the Steelers don't like the negative PR, but they're not going to give away a $100 million franchise QB for peanuts. It doesn't make them hypocrites, it just means they aren't insane.
 
Evilgrin 72 said:
Hang 10 said:
Because despite the reputation for discipline and the "Steeler way" the Rooney's would never really trade him. They're complete hypocrites.

See: Harrison, James/ Wilson, Cedric
Click to expand...
Don't bandy words like hypocrite around when you can't back it up. Those two situations were different, for one, and secondly, of course there's going to be some level of double-standard on any team. Harrison had a private domestic flare-up, told the team about it immediately, it was worked out between he and his SO, and no charges were filed. Wilson punched a girl in the face at a restaurant in front of 100 people. From a PR standpoint, they're hardly comparable. Stars will always get a little more leeway because of the money the team has tied up in that player. You think every team in the league gives away their top receiver (and SB MVP just 15 months ago) in his prime for a late 5th rounder just because of some weed issues? Personally, I don't think it was a good trade AT ALL, but they were willing to cut Holmes if they got nothing for him. It upsets me as a fan because I don't really care if Holmes hits the bong or not as long as he's there on Sunday, but that's not good enough for the Rooneys.Roethlisberger was not found guilty of any crime, except maybe hubris and a sense of entitlement. In today's gossip-driven society, we can't seem to get enough info as to what athletes are doing with their schvantzes. If you want to think ben is a "scumbag", fine, but he hasn't done anything illegal and he's a single guy. Bottom line is that the Steelers don't like the negative PR, but they're not going to give away a $100 million franchise QB for peanuts. It doesn't make them hypocrites, it just means they aren't insane.
Click to expand...
Hilarious. You just backed it up for me. You just admitted a hypocritical double standard. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Of course, it's much easier to stand on principle when you're cutting your 4th WR and not your stars players. But that's the point...EVERY team does that but the Steelers have always had the media singing their praises when most of it was undeserved. Hell, go all the way back to the Steelers glory years when the Rooneys were turning a blind eye to excessive steroid abuse. Was that the "Steeler way" too?

 
Some people might have a problem with him being a sexual predator. :goodposting: Despite what he's done in Pitt, they obviously have a problem with him.

 
I'd like to see Ben get traded for fair value, but I doubt they'll get fair value. So lets use the Culter deal as a baseline (two 1sts, a 3rd, a player)... should the Steelers take a trade equal to that for Ben?

Would any team make that offer for Ben at this point?

If not, what should Buf, Oak, etc offer for Ben?

 
bryan215 said:
The Raiders...well we won't even go there. You suck at drafting and as a bonus you get to cut JRussell and not have him count against the cap in future years.
Click to expand...
Their first round picks have sucked but not the later rounds imho, just sayin' ... Oh and I would LOVE to see BB in the silver and black ...
 
Steeler said:
I'd like to see Ben get traded for fair value, but I doubt they'll get fair value. So lets use the Culter deal as a baseline (two 1sts, a 3rd, a player)... should the Steelers take a trade equal to that for Ben?Would any team make that offer for Ben at this point?If not, what should Buf, Oak, etc offer for Ben?
Click to expand...
No way they get a Culter offer for Ben right now.
 
Evilgrin 72 said:
If you want to think ben is a "scumbag", fine, but he hasn't done been charged with anything illegal and he's a single guy. Bottom line is that the Steelers don't like the negative PR, but they're not going to give away a $100 million franchise QB for peanuts. It doesn't make them hypocrites, it just means they aren't insane.
Click to expand...
Fixed
 
Cassius said:
because you don't want to risk him having our laundry on when he actually gets caught?if teams knew for a fact he was innocent of the various accusations, and knew for a fact he would never do anything like that, i'm sure they'd be interested. then again, were that the case, i'm sure the Steelers wouldn't be shopping him.but there really isn't a lot of mystery about the answer to this question.
Click to expand...
If you're Buffalo, Oakland, St. Louis, and probably a few other teams you have to take this risk.
 
Steeler said:
silentmark said:
bryan215 said:
The Raiders...well we won't even go there. You suck at drafting and as a bonus you get to cut JRussell and not have him count against the cap in future years.
Click to expand...
Their first round picks have sucked but not the later rounds imho, just sayin' ... Oh and I would LOVE to see BB in the silver and black ...
Click to expand...
What would you want the Raiders to give up for him?
Click to expand...
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=11747482
 
Steeler said:
silentmark said:
Nnamdi Asomugha and our 8th Pick for Ben Rothlisberger and their 18th Pick, discuss ...
Click to expand...
If I were the Steelers I'd pass on that deal.... the Steelers wouldn't be giving up any 1st / 2nd day picks in this trade if I was in charge.
Click to expand...
Yeah...no picks back to the Raiders. Throw in a second next year from Oakland.Asougha, the 8th overall this year and the 2011 2nd rounder. That would do it.
 
The Steelers are not getting rid of Roth. this is just all an act to get him to get his #### straight.

Now one more incident I could see them moving him but this is just all "scare tactics" by the organization

 
Hang 10 said:
Evilgrin 72 said:
Hang 10 said:
Because despite the reputation for discipline and the "Steeler way" the Rooney's would never really trade him. They're complete hypocrites.

See: Harrison, James/ Wilson, Cedric
Click to expand...
Don't bandy words like hypocrite around when you can't back it up. Those two situations were different, for one, and secondly, of course there's going to be some level of double-standard on any team. Harrison had a private domestic flare-up, told the team about it immediately, it was worked out between he and his SO, and no charges were filed. Wilson punched a girl in the face at a restaurant in front of 100 people. From a PR standpoint, they're hardly comparable. Stars will always get a little more leeway because of the money the team has tied up in that player. You think every team in the league gives away their top receiver (and SB MVP just 15 months ago) in his prime for a late 5th rounder just because of some weed issues? Personally, I don't think it was a good trade AT ALL, but they were willing to cut Holmes if they got nothing for him. It upsets me as a fan because I don't really care if Holmes hits the bong or not as long as he's there on Sunday, but that's not good enough for the Rooneys.Roethlisberger was not found guilty of any crime, except maybe hubris and a sense of entitlement. In today's gossip-driven society, we can't seem to get enough info as to what athletes are doing with their schvantzes. If you want to think ben is a "scumbag", fine, but he hasn't done anything illegal and he's a single guy. Bottom line is that the Steelers don't like the negative PR, but they're not going to give away a $100 million franchise QB for peanuts. It doesn't make them hypocrites, it just means they aren't insane.
Click to expand...
Hilarious. You just backed it up for me. You just admitted a hypocritical double standard. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Of course, it's much easier to stand on principle when you're cutting your 4th WR and not your stars players. But that's the point...EVERY team does that but the Steelers have always had the media singing their praises when most of it was undeserved. Hell, go all the way back to the Steelers glory years when the Rooneys were turning a blind eye to excessive steroid abuse. Was that the "Steeler way" too?
Click to expand...
A double standard in sports is ubiquitous, it's not hypocritical. Even back when I was in rec sports as a pre-teen, the team's stars got more leeway with the coaches than the scrubs did, that's just sports.And you can continue to harp on that one example, but I've already explained why the Harrison and Wilson cases were different. Would every team cast off their #1 WR for smoking pot? I doubt it. No one is saying they're running a church here, but the fact is, they DO hold their players to a higher standard than many other teams do. It's not like people just decided to pick them out of a hat and decide they were a more morally conscious franchise. They're a family-run team that demands players adhere to a more strict code of conduct than many others. It doesn't, however, mean that they should rid themselves of top 5 talents simply based on a few minor transgressions. There's a modicum of common sense needed to override your emotions when it comes to making business decisions.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Cassius said:
because you don't want to risk him having our laundry on when he actually gets caught?if teams knew for a fact he was innocent of the various accusations, and knew for a fact he would never do anything like that, i'm sure they'd be interested. then again, were that the case, i'm sure the Steelers wouldn't be shopping him.but there really isn't a lot of mystery about the answer to this question.
Click to expand...
If you're Buffalo, Oakland, St. Louis, and probably a few other teams you have to take this risk.
Click to expand...
no, you don't.
 
silentmark said:
Nnamdi Asomugha and our 8th Pick for Ben Rothlisberger and their 18th Pick, discuss ...
Click to expand...
No chance in hell. Steelers aren't touching Asomugha as overpaid as he is. Gradkowski, the #8 pick and either a first next year or 2 second-rounders (this year and next)
 
belljr said:
The Steelers are not getting rid of Roth. this is just all an act to get him to get his #### straight.Now one more incident I could see them moving him but this is just all "scare tactics" by the organization
Click to expand...
One more incident and he gets cut. They get nothing for him. If they get a good enough offer now, they will take it...don't fool yourself.
 
Idiot Boxer said:
Steeler said:
silentmark said:
Nnamdi Asomugha and our 8th Pick for Ben Rothlisberger and their 18th Pick, discuss ...
Click to expand...
If I were the Steelers I'd pass on that deal.... the Steelers wouldn't be giving up any 1st / 2nd day picks in this trade if I was in charge.
Click to expand...
Yeah...no picks back to the Raiders. Throw in a second next year from Oakland.Asougha, the 8th overall this year and the 2011 2nd rounder. That would do it.
Click to expand...
If memory serves, he's owed almost $15 million in guaranteed money this year and his contract voids instantly for next season unless he's given the franchise # for a QUARTERBACK for next year. That contract is poison, no chance the Steelers take that on. You're looking at a minimum of $32,000,000 for the next two seasons and then he's a free agent.
 
Idiot Boxer said:
belljr said:
The Steelers are not getting rid of Roth. this is just all an act to get him to get his #### straight.

Now one more incident I could see them moving him but this is just all "scare tactics" by the organization
Click to expand...
One more incident and he gets traded. They get nothing for him. If they get a good enough offer now, they will take it...don't fool yourself.
Click to expand...
Fixed. They won't cut a guy who has value, and even if another story pops up and they decide to cut bait, there will be someone willing to give something up for him, I have no doubt. I do agree if they get a good enough offer now, they'd take it, but I highly doubt they will. It would have to be something similar to what I listed above, IMO. If they get rid of him for pennies on the dollar, I'm going to be pissed. Sure, I'll be able to feel great about my model franchise, but they'll win 5-6 games with Dixon/Leftwich at QB.At least it'll save me a couple hundred bills on the Sunday Ticket, though.

 
Evilgrin 72 said:
Idiot Boxer said:
Steeler said:
silentmark said:
Nnamdi Asomugha and our 8th Pick for Ben Rothlisberger and their 18th Pick, discuss ...
Click to expand...
If I were the Steelers I'd pass on that deal.... the Steelers wouldn't be giving up any 1st / 2nd day picks in this trade if I was in charge.
Click to expand...
Yeah...no picks back to the Raiders. Throw in a second next year from Oakland.Asougha, the 8th overall this year and the 2011 2nd rounder. That would do it.
Click to expand...
If memory serves, he's owed almost $15 million in guaranteed money this year and his contract voids instantly for next season unless he's given the franchise # for a QUARTERBACK for next year. That contract is poison, no chance the Steelers take that on. You're looking at a minimum of $32,000,000 for the next two seasons and then he's a free agent.
Click to expand...
well. obviously that would need redone before including him in a deal. I'd still rather get a CB in the deal than a QB cast off from Oak.
 
Evilgrin 72 said:
Idiot Boxer said:
belljr said:
The Steelers are not getting rid of Roth. this is just all an act to get him to get his #### straight.

Now one more incident I could see them moving him but this is just all "scare tactics" by the organization
Click to expand...
One more incident and he gets traded. They get nothing for him. If they get a good enough offer now, they will take it...don't fool yourself.
Click to expand...
Fixed. They won't cut a guy who has value, and even if another story pops up and they decide to cut bait, there will be someone willing to give something up for him, I have no doubt. I do agree if they get a good enough offer now, they'd take it, but I highly doubt they will. It would have to be something similar to what I listed above, IMO. If they get rid of him for pennies on the dollar, I'm going to be pissed. Sure, I'll be able to feel great about my model franchise, but they'll win 5-6 games with Dixon/Leftwich at QB.At least it'll save me a couple hundred bills on the Sunday Ticket, though.
Click to expand...
One more incident (i.e. a new set of events happening in the future similar to this; not some other chick coming out of the woodwork and saying 'I saw his %^&*@! too') he will get CUT. Guaranteed.
 
Look,

I know all the steeler homers think they are gonna maximize value for bigben.

But they are not.

I think he helped a great organization get over the top. Ben doesnt strike me as a guy that you can build a franchise around.

If Im a fledgling franchise - Oak,Stl or Buff I dont touch this dude with a 10 foot pole. However a contender with a QB issue that would be an ideal spot to snag him. Now who is that? Im not sure, most elite teams got a QB.

 
Why would they cut him when a team would be willing to trade for him? You're telling me Oakland suddenly wouldn't want him if another transgression happens? Only way he gets cut is if no other team is willing to take him on, and I don't see that being the case for a guy with his talent. They're not going to cut him rather than trade him just to prove a point.

 
Evilgrin 72 said:
Hang 10 said:
Evilgrin 72 said:
Hang 10 said:
Because despite the reputation for discipline and the "Steeler way" the Rooney's would never really trade him. They're complete hypocrites.

See: Harrison, James/ Wilson, Cedric
Click to expand...
Don't bandy words like hypocrite around when you can't back it up. Those two situations were different, for one, and secondly, of course there's going to be some level of double-standard on any team. Harrison had a private domestic flare-up, told the team about it immediately, it was worked out between he and his SO, and no charges were filed. Wilson punched a girl in the face at a restaurant in front of 100 people. From a PR standpoint, they're hardly comparable. Stars will always get a little more leeway because of the money the team has tied up in that player. You think every team in the league gives away their top receiver (and SB MVP just 15 months ago) in his prime for a late 5th rounder just because of some weed issues? Personally, I don't think it was a good trade AT ALL, but they were willing to cut Holmes if they got nothing for him. It upsets me as a fan because I don't really care if Holmes hits the bong or not as long as he's there on Sunday, but that's not good enough for the Rooneys.Roethlisberger was not found guilty of any crime, except maybe hubris and a sense of entitlement. In today's gossip-driven society, we can't seem to get enough info as to what athletes are doing with their schvantzes. If you want to think ben is a "scumbag", fine, but he hasn't done anything illegal and he's a single guy. Bottom line is that the Steelers don't like the negative PR, but they're not going to give away a $100 million franchise QB for peanuts. It doesn't make them hypocrites, it just means they aren't insane.
Click to expand...
Hilarious. You just backed it up for me. You just admitted a hypocritical double standard. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Of course, it's much easier to stand on principle when you're cutting your 4th WR and not your stars players. But that's the point...EVERY team does that but the Steelers have always had the media singing their praises when most of it was undeserved. Hell, go all the way back to the Steelers glory years when the Rooneys were turning a blind eye to excessive steroid abuse. Was that the "Steeler way" too?
Click to expand...
A double standard in sports is ubiquitous, it's not hypocritical. Even back when I was in rec sports as a pre-teen, the team's stars got more leeway with the coaches than the scrubs did, that's just sports.And you can continue to harp on that one example, but I've already explained why the Harrison and Wilson cases were different. Would every team cast off their #1 WR for smoking pot? I doubt it. No one is saying they're running a church here, but the fact is, they DO hold their players to a higher standard than many other teams do. It's not like people just decided to pick them out of a hat and decide they were a more morally conscious franchise. They're a family-run team that demands players adhere to a more strict code of conduct than many others. It doesn't, however, mean that they should rid themselves of top 5 talents simply based on a few minor transgressions. There's a modicum of common sense needed to override your emotions when it comes to making business decisions.
Click to expand...
C'mon...let's get real. The REAL reason the Steelers dumped Holmes is the fact that he was already suspended 1/4 of the season and they were never going to re-sign him. You can say that was because of character but you could easily say that Steelers rarely pay anyone. It was also a nice PR move in the midst of the Roethlisberger mess. But seriously, you can say that Ben was never charged with anything but let's be clear...we know that's not necessarily a presumption of innocence. Ben is a black eye on the Steelers and the league at this point but if the Rooneys are more concerned about getting value for him than upholding their "lofty reputation" then to me, that says it all. Enough with the Steeler PR machine.

 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
Look, I know all the steeler homers think they are gonna maximize value for bigben.But they are not. I think he helped a great organization get over the top. Ben doesnt strike me as a guy that you can build a franchise around. If Im a fledgling franchise - Oak,Stl or Buff I dont touch this dude with a 10 foot pole. However a contender with a QB issue that would be an ideal spot to snag him. Now who is that? Im not sure, most elite teams got a QB.
Click to expand...
Steelers were 6-10 the year before Ben's arrival, and 0-1 that season when he took over as starter and went 15-0 the rest of the way. The next season they won the SB. Look at the 2003 and 2004 teams aside from the QB position and they're virtually identical. Put him on Oakland right now, and they're a very different team.
 
Evilgrin 72 said:
Why would they cut him when a team would be willing to trade for him? You're telling me Oakland suddenly wouldn't want him if another transgression happens? Only way he gets cut is if no other team is willing to take him on, and I don't see that being the case for a guy with his talent. They're not going to cut him rather than trade him just to prove a point.
Click to expand...
If not cut (and I still contend he'd be cut), it would be a firesale...a la Holmes. That said, I think the front office would be under so much pressure to rectify the situation, he'd just be cut.Think about it. Ben does his 'I'm sorrys' and attends all the recommended impulse control classes for socially inappropriate d-bags and serves his suspension. He's a good boy for a year or two and plays pretty well for the Steelers, leading them to a few more playoff appearances. Then, one very special arbor day, he goes out to celebrate and the pulls the ol' "don't you know who I am" routine...and pressures some woman - regardless of any acronym she's wearing - into a sexual act she's not sure she wants to do. She immediately goes to the police.You really think the Steelers will pick up the phone and start fielding offers? Do you really think they'll get much considering that a 1/2 to 1 year suspension is almost a certainty? Do you really think they'll take a 'wait and see'? THIS is Big Ben's last chance. He gets into anything similar to what happened in Georgia again, and his equipment will be on the sidewalk outside Heinz Field before Danny Snyder can even pick up the phone. There will be no trade, he's gone.
 
Cassius said:
Ramblin Wreck said:
Cassius said:
because you don't want to risk him having our laundry on when he actually gets caught?if teams knew for a fact he was innocent of the various accusations, and knew for a fact he would never do anything like that, i'm sure they'd be interested. then again, were that the case, i'm sure the Steelers wouldn't be shopping him.but there really isn't a lot of mystery about the answer to this question.
Click to expand...
If you're Buffalo, Oakland, St. Louis, and probably a few other teams you have to take this risk.
Click to expand...
no, you don't.
Click to expand...
You're right. You do if you ever want to stop drafting in the top 5-10 though.
 
Hang 10 said:
Evilgrin 72 said:
Hang 10 said:
Evilgrin 72 said:
Hang 10 said:
Because despite the reputation for discipline and the "Steeler way" the Rooney's would never really trade him. They're complete hypocrites.

See: Harrison, James/ Wilson, Cedric
Click to expand...
Don't bandy words like hypocrite around when you can't back it up. Those two situations were different, for one, and secondly, of course there's going to be some level of double-standard on any team. Harrison had a private domestic flare-up, told the team about it immediately, it was worked out between he and his SO, and no charges were filed. Wilson punched a girl in the face at a restaurant in front of 100 people. From a PR standpoint, they're hardly comparable. Stars will always get a little more leeway because of the money the team has tied up in that player. You think every team in the league gives away their top receiver (and SB MVP just 15 months ago) in his prime for a late 5th rounder just because of some weed issues? Personally, I don't think it was a good trade AT ALL, but they were willing to cut Holmes if they got nothing for him. It upsets me as a fan because I don't really care if Holmes hits the bong or not as long as he's there on Sunday, but that's not good enough for the Rooneys.Roethlisberger was not found guilty of any crime, except maybe hubris and a sense of entitlement. In today's gossip-driven society, we can't seem to get enough info as to what athletes are doing with their schvantzes. If you want to think ben is a "scumbag", fine, but he hasn't done anything illegal and he's a single guy. Bottom line is that the Steelers don't like the negative PR, but they're not going to give away a $100 million franchise QB for peanuts. It doesn't make them hypocrites, it just means they aren't insane.
Click to expand...
Hilarious. You just backed it up for me. You just admitted a hypocritical double standard. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Of course, it's much easier to stand on principle when you're cutting your 4th WR and not your stars players. But that's the point...EVERY team does that but the Steelers have always had the media singing their praises when most of it was undeserved. Hell, go all the way back to the Steelers glory years when the Rooneys were turning a blind eye to excessive steroid abuse. Was that the "Steeler way" too?
Click to expand...
A double standard in sports is ubiquitous, it's not hypocritical. Even back when I was in rec sports as a pre-teen, the team's stars got more leeway with the coaches than the scrubs did, that's just sports.And you can continue to harp on that one example, but I've already explained why the Harrison and Wilson cases were different. Would every team cast off their #1 WR for smoking pot? I doubt it. No one is saying they're running a church here, but the fact is, they DO hold their players to a higher standard than many other teams do. It's not like people just decided to pick them out of a hat and decide they were a more morally conscious franchise. They're a family-run team that demands players adhere to a more strict code of conduct than many others. It doesn't, however, mean that they should rid themselves of top 5 talents simply based on a few minor transgressions. There's a modicum of common sense needed to override your emotions when it comes to making business decisions.
Click to expand...
C'mon...let's get real. The REAL reason the Steelers dumped Holmes is the fact that he was already suspended 1/4 of the season and they were never going to re-sign him. You can say that was because of character but you could easily say that Steelers rarely pay anyone. It was also a nice PR move in the midst of the Roethlisberger mess. But seriously, you can say that Ben was never charged with anything but let's be clear...we know that's not necessarily a presumption of innocence. Ben is a black eye on the Steelers and the league at this point but if the Rooneys are more concerned about getting value for him than upholding their "lofty reputation" then to me, that says it all. Enough with the Steeler PR machine.
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They had already decided not to re-sign Holmes from everything I'd heard. He was not making a lot of money this year, with a team that is actually still in a window to win a SB, you don't cast off your top wideout for a 5th rounder because he's going to miss 4 games. I actually hate the move personally, but most teams would not have done it. Spin it any way you want, but the proof is in the pudding. This isn't some scrub we're talking about and the Jets didn't seem to hesitate to add him to their roster despite what's going on with him.And not being charged with a crime is not a presumption of innocence, but isn't "innocent until proven guilty" still the way this country works, or did I sleep through something? The DA had all the facts and said "we don't prosecute morals, we prosecute crimes." There is no evidence any crime was committed. Now you may think Ben is morally bankrupt, and that's your right, but unloading him for next to nothing for something that's likely to blow over sooner rather than later is insane, and it won't happen. The Rooney's first responsibility is to the fans and to the franchise, rather than trying to maintain some sort of saintly image. All that crap is overblown. They're not angels, they simply hold players to higher standard of conduct than most teams. Anything beyond that is media fluff.

 
Evilgrin 72 said:
Hang 10 said:
Because despite the reputation for discipline and the "Steeler way" the Rooney's would never really trade him. They're complete hypocrites.See: Harrison, James/ Wilson, Cedric
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Bottom line is that the Steelers don't like the negative PR, but they're not going to give away a $100 million franchise QB for peanuts. It doesn't make them hypocrites, it just means they aren't insane.
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:shrug: Teams tolerate alot more from superstar players....always have always will.
 
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Ramblin Wreck said:
Cassius said:
Ramblin Wreck said:
Cassius said:
because you don't want to risk him having our laundry on when he actually gets caught?if teams knew for a fact he was innocent of the various accusations, and knew for a fact he would never do anything like that, i'm sure they'd be interested. then again, were that the case, i'm sure the Steelers wouldn't be shopping him.but there really isn't a lot of mystery about the answer to this question.
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If you're Buffalo, Oakland, St. Louis, and probably a few other teams you have to take this risk.
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no, you don't.
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You're right. You do if you ever want to stop drafting in the top 5-10 though.
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Pretty sure there are other ways to getting out of the top 5-10 than trading for Roethlisberger. Not sure if these teams are able to figure them out, but it's silly to say any team has to take a chance on a possible rapist. I wouldn't kill any team for not taking that chance no matter how bad they are. :shrug:
 
silentmark said:
Idiot Boxer said:
Steeler said:
silentmark said:
Nnamdi Asomugha and our 8th Pick for Ben Rothlisberger and their 18th Pick, discuss ...
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If I were the Steelers I'd pass on that deal.... the Steelers wouldn't be giving up any 1st / 2nd day picks in this trade if I was in charge.
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Yeah...no picks back to the Raiders. Throw in a second next year from Oakland.Asougha, the 8th overall this year and the 2011 2nd rounder. That would do it.
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LOL, com'on let's be realistic here ...
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Steeler fans aren't doing "realistic" very well right now. Can't blame them too much I suppose.
 
Idiot Boxer said:
Evilgrin 72 said:
Why would they cut him when a team would be willing to trade for him? You're telling me Oakland suddenly wouldn't want him if another transgression happens? Only way he gets cut is if no other team is willing to take him on, and I don't see that being the case for a guy with his talent. They're not going to cut him rather than trade him just to prove a point.
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If not cut (and I still contend he'd be cut), it would be a firesale...a la Holmes. That said, I think the front office would be under so much pressure to rectify the situation, he'd just be cut.Think about it. Ben does his 'I'm sorrys' and attends all the recommended impulse control classes for socially inappropriate d-bags and serves his suspension. He's a good boy for a year or two and plays pretty well for the Steelers, leading them to a few more playoff appearances. Then, one very special arbor day, he goes out to celebrate and the pulls the ol' "don't you know who I am" routine...and pressures some woman - regardless of any acronym she's wearing - into a sexual act she's not sure she wants to do. She immediately goes to the police.You really think the Steelers will pick up the phone and start fielding offers? Do you really think they'll get much considering that a 1/2 to 1 year suspension is almost a certainty? Do you really think they'll take a 'wait and see'? THIS is Big Ben's last chance. He gets into anything similar to what happened in Georgia again, and his equipment will be on the sidewalk outside Heinz Field before Danny Snyder can even pick up the phone. There will be no trade, he's gone.
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I don't think there'd be a wait and see, he'd be history, no doubt. But I absolutely do think they'd field offers before cutting him, and I still think someone would part with something to get him regardless. If not, then he'd be cut, but a player of his talent is always going to find a home. Someone would be willing to cough up a draft pick to get him rather than have to compete with other teams to sign him when his suspension was up, IMO.
 
Evilgrin 72 said:
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
Look, I know all the steeler homers think they are gonna maximize value for bigben.But they are not. I think he helped a great organization get over the top. Ben doesnt strike me as a guy that you can build a franchise around. If Im a fledgling franchise - Oak,Stl or Buff I dont touch this dude with a 10 foot pole. However a contender with a QB issue that would be an ideal spot to snag him. Now who is that? Im not sure, most elite teams got a QB.
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Steelers were 6-10 the year before Ben's arrival, and 0-1 that season when he took over as starter and went 15-0 the rest of the way. The next season they won the SB. Look at the 2003 and 2004 teams aside from the QB position and they're virtually identical. Put him on Oakland right now, and they're a very different team.
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even elite teams have an offseason, but Cowher's record with the D and people like Maddox and Kordell at QB was very good. I just dont think that Pitt is getting a first rounder and an elite player like Nnamdi and a 2nd rounder. Geez
 
What makes anyone think that a team wants that PR nightmare? Let's face facts.... in the Court of Public Opinion, he now has a Michael Vick like reputation. Some people take 'rape' very seriously, whether he was convicted or not.

 
Evilgrin 72 said:
And not being charged with a crime is not a presumption of innocence, but isn't "innocent until proven guilty" still the way this country works, or did I sleep through something? The DA had all the facts and said "we don't prosecute morals, we prosecute crimes." There is no evidence any crime was committed. Now you may think Ben is morally bankrupt, and that's your right, but unloading him for next to nothing for something that's likely to blow over sooner rather than later is insane, and it won't happen. The Rooney's first responsibility is to the fans and to the franchise, rather than trying to maintain some sort of saintly image. All that crap is overblown. They're not angels, they simply hold players to higher standard of conduct than most teams. Anything beyond that is media fluff.
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Innocent until proven guilty is how our court system works. That's not how public opinion operates however. And you bring up the DA to come to Ben's defense is laughable. I think most got the impression that he thought a crime was committed but didn't think it would hold up in court. Read the police report. Hell, I have feeling DA didn't want to prosecute because of what he'd expose about the dirty Midgleville police more than anything.
 
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bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
Evilgrin 72 said:
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
Look, I know all the steeler homers think they are gonna maximize value for bigben.But they are not. I think he helped a great organization get over the top. Ben doesnt strike me as a guy that you can build a franchise around. If Im a fledgling franchise - Oak,Stl or Buff I dont touch this dude with a 10 foot pole. However a contender with a QB issue that would be an ideal spot to snag him. Now who is that? Im not sure, most elite teams got a QB.
Click to expand...
Steelers were 6-10 the year before Ben's arrival, and 0-1 that season when he took over as starter and went 15-0 the rest of the way. The next season they won the SB. Look at the 2003 and 2004 teams aside from the QB position and they're virtually identical. Put him on Oakland right now, and they're a very different team.
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even elite teams have an offseason, but Cowher's record with the D and people like Maddox and Kordell at QB was very good. I just dont think that Pitt is getting a first rounder and an elite player like Nnamdi and a 2nd rounder. Geez
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They won't want Nnamdi... I'm saying a first rounder, a couple later picks, and a guy the Raiders no longer need, like Gradkowski. The Broncos got more than that for Cutler, who isn't near the QB Roethlisberger is and also had a reputation for being a d-bag and a coach killer. I don't think that's unrealistic, if Cutler was considered a "franchise" QB....
 
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