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This is a dynasty thread right???You'd draft a WR from any of those team listed before Larry Fitzgerald? If Leinart isn't the answer they'll figure it out quite quickly. He'll still get 150 targets. His YPC might be down, but I dont' think receptions will go down much at all. Taking Colston, Wayne, Moss ahead of Fitz in a dynasty startup would be craziness in my opinion.
Agreed. Most people in FF have a one year back and one year forward view of things, even when they purport to be thinking dynasty, and that's a big mistake in the case of Fitz. In my mind there's AJ, Fitz, and Calvin in some order, then everyone else. And going forward I'm not even sure AJ is ahead of Fitz (there's a 2-year age diff) but I'm in a small, small minority on that one. Everyone is in love with AJ and rightfully so, but I'm just not sure we can assume future stats for him like the ones he had last year.
To answer your question, I'd trade down and gain picks/players (there's no question Fitz is more valued).
Hump, I think you missed a few of my previous posts.You didn't lowball them in your opinion.That's my point- maybe they value Foster much higher than you do (right now as a buyer anyway), but there's also the possibility that they value your WR or picks lower than you do. I understand that you don't want to give away names, but #4/#5 tier WRs according to F&L range from WR 30 to WR 71. That's a huge range, and even F & L would agree that there will be a lot of different opinions on those guys. There are plenty of guys in that range that I wouldn't deal Foster for, and I think many would agree- most would prefer taking a flyer on a RB project over a WR project, assuming both are far from sure things.
No two people in any league will value most any player exactly the same, and the range only gets greater once you get into the 3rd, 4th, and 5th tier players. My point is, what's happening in one (or even 2 or 3) leagues isn't necessarily representative of all leagues. Foster's value is probably different for every single owner in your league, and in some cases significantly so. He'll go in round 7 in some startups, round 12 in others. The guy asking for top 12 RB value (assuming that's the case) is either pulling your chain, off his rocker, or both.
I agree. I still have Fitz, AJ, and Calvin as Tier 1.
Off the top of my head, I wouldn't think he's close to a seventh-round pick in a start-up. 20 QB35-40 RB40 WR12-14 TEJust using some quick math, I would think all of the above would go off the board before Foster.
I can't believe all of the concern with Fitz this offseason. He remains one of the surest assets out there.
Yet somehow, F&L still ends up being right about Slaton because he didnt play well for a half season while injured?
I love the way you framed that one.1. He didn't play well before he was injured. Nice try, blaming it all on the injury though.2. Many of us considered him to be ultra-brittle before the career-threatening injury.3. He has now lost a ton of Dynasty value because he has no stability whatsoever and his job security is non-existent. I don't see how it could surprise anybody if he's used as a situational player for the remainder of his career.Any way you slice it, Slaton owners lost out over the past 12 months.
No question.The real issue here is: Can it return to normal with rest and strengthening exercises, or will it dog him for the rest of his career? Does his arm only have so many throws per game and so many throws per season? He insists his arm is stronger than ever, but he also insisted there was nothing wrong with it late last season when there clearly was.
There's no doubt Palmer wasn't 100% last season, especially towards the end. But, I think part of the explaination for this is due to the changes in the team- the running game was much more effective last season, the defense was much better, and the team overall was much better. I would expect them to take fewer "shots" when they are controlling games and winning than when behind and playing catch up.I have heard Palmer say his arm is stronger than ever due to all of the exercises he's done to strenghten his elbow, but it obviously has to be taken with a big grain of salt. IMO, this is a critical season for Palmer- if he actually is 100% healthy, he has lower end #1 QB potential, but if he's not, his value will be all but gone in a dynasty.
I think things will be pretty much the same as last season; he'll have "enough" arm strength early in the season, and then wear down as the season progresses. Palmer said his arm was fine last season, but it wasn't. I only know what I see, and I saw a QB with 0 zip on his passes by the season's end. He looked worse than Pennington.
I'm not even talking about the deep balls, Palmer was floating 10 yard outs.
I suspect a reason why they drafted Gresham and Shipley is because they want Palmer to have better targets on short/intermediate routes over the middle of the field. Their best slot receiver was a deep threat (Caldwell).
People have been making excuses for Palmer all offseason, but many of those passes were floating high, left, and right no matter who the target was.
Luddites and those without Twitter access at work missed a quality discussion on Forsett yesterday between @ProFootbalFocus, @evansilva, @SigmundBloom and myself. Mostly it was Bloom killing it (but that's just because I basically agree with him and think PFF are in over their head at times).Bloom:
Now with 5 years of dynasty experience under my belt, I don't think QB in the first / early is all that much a reach anymore, even in 4pt TD leagues. Granted, I'd likely rather a young, stud WR or elite back, but after say, pick 6, I'd probably take a top qb over what's left. Looking back at some of my first round picks over the last few years (Addai / R Brown in 07, Jax in 08, etc), I kinda wish I just took Peyton or Brees in those leagues. Instead, I usually went qbbc, ending up w/ guys like Garrard / Campbell / Hass / etc (lucked out w/ Schaub in a few). The bad thing there is, these guys don't have that "set it and forget it" factor, and help was never really coming from the WW (Hill, JTO, etc). I was always scrambling in those leagues. I definitely value qb's more than I used to, especially in startups.GreatLakesMike said:I won't call it a guppy league, but the draft did roll out a bit different than what most of us would consider "normal." That said, from what I've seen, it does seem like QB's are being drafted a lot earlier this year in start-ups.Go deep said:A guppy league because Fitz didnt go where you think he should have?Edit to add, what do i win for being the 10,000th post?
This is what I saw too. I am hoping that it was just that his mechanics were messed up because of the injury and that another healthy off season will correct this, but he definitely has a question mark in my mind.Fear & Loathing said:GreatLakesMike said:People have been making excuses for Palmer all offseason, but many of those passes were floating high, left, and right no matter who the target was.
I got all that and it was quality stuff. I love twitter for football news. It beats everything for speed of info.
Slaton claimed he got injured early in the year, but tried playing through it before it finally got so bad, he went on IR.Sure, Slaton is brittle, as is every RB. What makes him more brittle than any other 200 lb RB? I am not being sarcastic, if you know something that makes one player more brittle than another, i would love to know.Yet somehow, F&L still ends up being right about Slaton because he didnt play well for a half season while injured?
For reference in the 2 start up high stakes leagues Foster went in the 12th and 15th rounds of 12 man leagues.No way is he worth a 7th rounder.
I can't speak for everybody, but here's why I considered him to be brittle: undersized, nagging college injuries, and unwillingness/inability to handle inside running.
Isnt he the same size as CJ, didnt AD suffer more injuries in college than Slaton. Did you watch Slaton his rookie year? Hes no Reggie Bush, he ran fine inside the tackles. No Houston RB was good in short yardage in 2008, the OLine is/was not exactly the big bulldozing type. The only reason the team had anywhere to run was because of a lethal passing game.I do agree now, that Slaton is likely to spend the rest of his career as a part time/3rd down back. One thing i am confident about though, is Fosters career as a starting RB will be shorter than Slatons. "Confident" meaning IMO, not stated as fact.
I'm not comparing him to CJ and AD because there's no comparison. They're completely different players. Slaton didn't pass the eyeball test for me as a future feature back, and a big part of that was his ability to handle a feature back load. I never had doubts about the ability of CJ and AD to carry the load. I'm sorry that you got stuck with him.
I drafted him in all but 2 of my 9 leagues in 2008. 2 of the 4 were dynasty leagues, and i got him in all 5 of my redrafts. In one dynasty league, i passed on him for James Hardy in the mid 2nd because i was deperate for WR's.(i usually dont do that, and will never do it again)
Do you think anyone in this thread cares about what dynasty leagues you won or about this stupid argument? Please stop this stupid bickering. You are coming across like a tool.
There is a point, i(nor anyone else) got "stuck" with him. Plus i dont care how i come off, you cant possibly think i care what you think of me, do you?Do you think anyone in this thread cares about what dynasty leagues you won or about this stupid argument? Please stop this stupid bickering. You are coming across like a tool.
No, I don't care. I'm asking you to please leave this thread, or at least stop posting. You are ruining one of the best threads in this forum. Thanks in advance.
And these posts of yours are very informative. ETA, i am done with this pissing match though.
Obviously I wasn't trying to be informative... I was asking you to stop/leave. Thanks for responding.
Thanks for stating what 90% of the Shark Pool has been thinking. Unfortunately I'm sure he'll continue posting in this thread. In addition to being a Slaton fan, I imagine he is a TO fan (I love me some me).
Andre Caldwell wasn't too bad for the Bengals last year as well.Palmer just had no zip on his throws and was often off target.. it was discouraging to see.. he's like the Grant Hill of the NFL
I love it when people get so angry when others disagree with them. Dont worry, it is not a personal attack when someone disagrees with you. ETA, now i am done with this nonsense, if you dont want to read my posts, put me on the ignore list.
I think the "QB competition" was telling. Quinn was supposed to battle Orton for the job this summer, but Orton was so far ahead of Quinn and Tebow this spring that McDaniels had no choice but to hand him the job in June. I think Orton has a pretty long leash for the first 3/4 of the season. If the Broncos aren't close to .500 by December, we could then see Tebow get a couple of starts as they play out the string. I'd say Orton's 2010 job security is stronger than commonly believed.Edit to add: I do think Tebow will "get on the field" early in the season as a goal-line specialist, similar to his freshman year at Florida.
Depends on what you mean by "does Tebow get on the field this season". Personally, I think Tim Tebow gets on the field plenty this year... but I don't think he logs any starts at QB. No real reason to rush a rookie QB if you don't have to. Typically, giving a QB a little bit of time to get acclimated to the NFL does wonders for his long-term production.
Any Best optimism tempering based on this?
It cant be good news for Best to be compared to Bush. I wouldnt worry too much about it though, if he is better between the tackles than Kevin Smith, he will get the bulk of the carries. Trying to get the ball to him in space cant hurt his value either. I would be more concerned if Smith wasnt coming off of ACL surgery, but that pretty much assures us that Best will be their best RB this year.
Nah, Tom Kowalski is the beat writer to trust for the Lions, and he's been calling Best the feature back all along. Better yet, just read the comments from Jim Schwartz. I think Best will be between 15-20 touches per week with Felton or K.Smith handling goal-line/short-yardage work in the vain of 2008 CJ/LenDale.
Also, this is a pet peeve of mine since I'm on Rotoworld news: Tim Twentyman isn't "reporting" anything here. He's clearly speculating, and to use the word "reports" adds an air of authority that shouldn't be there. When I train our new guys, it's one of the things I always stress: be careful how you word your sentence of "news."The site doing this here is hardly alone. It's just a sloppy and misleading approach.
So what's your call on Best? There was a period where you seemed to be getting ready to pump him up as this year's best option, but I haven't heard you getting as excited as you did about Harvin or Chris Johnson.Is he still the guy?
IIRC, those articles on Johnson and Harvin came out in early August. Give me three weeks to solidify, but, yeah, Best is the guy so far. I really like Dez Bryant too. But I still think Best is the guy to take the spotlight as a rookie.
Good timing, Sabertooth.ESPN's Bill Williamson, a former Broncos beat writer, just addressed this yesterday afternoon. Here's the podcast:
