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Drafting Two Elite Tight Ends (one as FLEX) (1 Viewer)

B

brindrod

Footballguy
Our league had its annual draft this afternoon and went with this strategy which crippled the league as well set panic amongst my rivals.

Regular scoring except 0.5 PPR

1QB, 2RB, 2WR, 1 FLX (RB/WR/TE), 1TE, 1K, 1 DEF

11th overall (3rd Round Reversal Draft Style)

12 Teams

Like last year, I said goodbye to the RB/RB way of drafting (won the championship of my league) but this time around, I figured I would cause a major shortage of elite TEs by grabbing Antonio Gates and Dallas Clark. Since we can use a TE as a FLEX, my theory was that this would bring up a TE run as soon as Dallas Clark was off the board as TE2 hence destabalizing the flow of the draft (we have 2 minutes to make our pick) while dictating the trend.

Grabbed Gates at 4.11 and Clark at 5.2 which then set off the others into a feeding frenzy of what was left that is considered the elite tier; Finley at 5.4. Vernon Davis at 5.5 & Jason Witten at 5.6. The GM who drafted Davis copied my M.O. by selecting Celek as a FLEX play at 6.8 This caused the other GMs to overeach for the likes of Shiancoe at 6.12, Cooley at 8.10, Winslow at 8.11, Daniels at 8.12.

Since I grabbed P. Manning (1.11), Reggie Wayne (2.02) and Benson (3.02), implementing the back-to-back elite TE strategy allowed me to grab WRs and RBs at cut rate ADPs.

This is a 12 team league that has been in existence since 2004 with very low turnover.

 
I'd be interested to know the RBs/WRs on the board when you grabbed Gates and then who the guy picking 12 took with those 2 picks. With TE being a very deep position this season, I don't endorse what you did. Grabbing Gates as the top TE at the end of the 4th round is solid value, though.

 
seen plenty of people try this strategy and it never seemed to work. Was in a dynasty where a guy drafted both Witten & Gates...

 
Looking at his team in his signature, I'm not impressed. He has 1 decent HB and 1 good WR. The rest of his HB/WR combo's are uninspiring. QB and TE are super deep this year, so while you have a great QB and 2 great TE's, other teams have pretty darn comparable QB's and TE's. The difference is that most other teams will have a Jamaal Charles as HB2 compared to your Bradshaw. And a Colston as a WR2 compared to your Housh. If this is a PPR league, you're toast. Your team is .500 at best, IMO.

 
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theplayer11 said:
so your great strategy landed you guys like Housh, Caddy, Breaston, and Hester?
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i didn't even notice his signature ... i agree ... it doesn't look like a great decisioni wonder if the OP will let us know which were the 5 best RBs and 5 best WRs available when Gates was selected and who the guy at #12 took b/w his TE picks
 
shnikies said:
Warrior said:
tribecalledjeff said:
I don't think there was a much panic as you think there was.
Click to expand...
:shrug: classic case of a fantasy team ruined by overthinking.
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Am I stupid because I didn't understand a word the OP said? The era of rb/rb may be dead but the era of value/value isn't.
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yea ... he didn't do a good job elaborating on the RB/RB thing ... he probably shouldn't have even said that based on where he was really going with the thread
 
I was considering doing something similar in league where 2 TEs can start... thanks for talking me out of it. :useless:

 
brindrod said:
Our league had its annual draft this afternoon and went with this strategy which crippled the league as well set panic amongst my rivals.

Regular scoring except 0.5 PPR

1QB, 2RB, 2WR, 1 FLX (RB/WR/TE), 1TE, 1K, 1 DEF

11th overall (3rd Round Reversal Draft Style)

12 Teams

Like last year, I said goodbye to the RB/RB way of drafting (won the championship of my league) but this time around, I figured I would cause a major shortage of elite TEs by grabbing Antonio Gates and Dallas Clark. Since we can use a TE as a FLEX, my theory was that this would bring up a TE run as soon as Dallas Clark was off the board as TE2 hence destabalizing the flow of the draft (we have 2 minutes to make our pick) while dictating the trend.

Grabbed Gates at 4.11 and Clark at 5.2 which then set off the others into a feeding frenzy of what was left that is considered the elite tier; Finley at 5.4. Vernon Davis at 5.5 & Jason Witten at 5.6. The GM who drafted Davis copied my M.O. by selecting Celek as a FLEX play at 6.8 This caused the other GMs to overeach for the likes of Shiancoe at 6.12, Cooley at 8.10, Winslow at 8.11, Daniels at 8.12.

Since I grabbed P. Manning (1.11), Reggie Wayne (2.02) and Benson (3.02), implementing the back-to-back elite TE strategy allowed me to grab WRs and RBs at cut rate ADPs.

This is a 12 team league that has been in existence since 2004 with very low turnover.
Click to expand...
Let's recap and compare where players were taken versus where they are usually taken.Gates at 4.11 after his ADP 4.06

Clark at 5.02, after his ADP 4.04

Finley 5.04 before his ADP is 5.05

Vernon Davis at 5.05, a half around after his 4.11 ADP.

Witten 5.06, after his 5.03 ADP.

Celek 6.08, nearly a round after his 5.10 ADP.

Shiancoe 6.12 ... the first player who actually went earlier than average... and way earlier, 3 rounds versus his 9.06 ADP.

Cooley 8.10 , a pick after his ADP of 8.09

Winslow 8.11 , four picks before his 9.03 ADP

Daniels 8.12, four picks after his 8.08 ADP.

I'm just not seeing some run that benefited you that is out of the ordinary. The most out of the ordinary thing is that you got the top 2 TEs a half round to a round later than normal. The people following you took the TEs who are normally taken in that area of the draft. I marked in blue the three tight ends who were taken ahead of their average draft slot. And of those three, two of them were taken close enough to their ADP it doesn't seem at all unusual.

The lone pick that would be at all unusual is Shiancoe, and in absence of anything else unusual regarding TEs from your draft I don't see why I'd chalk that up to being caused by a panic. As opposed to something like he's a Minny homer or he thinks the loss of Rice will translate into a big jump for Shiancoe.

 
brindrod said:
Our league had its annual draft this afternoon and went with this strategy which crippled the league as well set panic amongst my rivals. Regular scoring except 0.5 PPR 1QB, 2RB, 2WR, 1 FLX (RB/WR/TE), 1TE, 1K, 1 DEF 11th overall (3rd Round Reversal Draft Style) 12 Teams Like last year, I said goodbye to the RB/RB way of drafting (won the championship of my league) but this time around, I figured I would cause a major shortage of elite TEs by grabbing Antonio Gates and Dallas Clark. Since we can use a TE as a FLEX, my theory was that this would bring up a TE run as soon as Dallas Clark was off the board as TE2 hence destabalizing the flow of the draft (we have 2 minutes to make our pick) while dictating the trend. Grabbed Gates at 4.11 and Clark at 5.2 which then set off the others into a feeding frenzy of what was left that is considered the elite tier; Finley at 5.4. Vernon Davis at 5.5 & Jason Witten at 5.6. The GM who drafted Davis copied my M.O. by selecting Celek as a FLEX play at 6.8 This caused the other GMs to overeach for the likes of Shiancoe at 6.12, Cooley at 8.10, Winslow at 8.11, Daniels at 8.12. Since I grabbed P. Manning (1.11), Reggie Wayne (2.02) and Benson (3.02), implementing the back-to-back elite TE strategy allowed me to grab WRs and RBs at cut rate ADPs. This is a 12 team league that has been in existence since 2004 with very low turnover.
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So your flex can be a RB/WR/TE and you chose TE? Wow! Of course I don't blame you from shying away from a proven stratagy that won you a championship last season for this :thumbdown:
 
Worked out well in both my money leagues, hoping it will continue to work out this year.

1PPR, one league has a WR/TE flex and a TE, the other just has two TE slots. Gates and Davis in the first, and Gates and Gonzo.

 
Winky the tunnel ferret said:
I think this strategy could work. I don't think you made it work.
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his mistake was drafting QB and TE early. You can't do that. If he had taken a strong RB where he took Peyton and waited on QB for later, I think he could have made it work.
 
Warrior said:
tribecalledjeff said:
I don't think there was a much panic as you think there was.
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:lmao: classic case of a fantasy team ruined by overthinking.
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:goodposting:
GregR said:
Let's recap and compare where players were taken versus where they are usually taken.

Gates at 4.11 after his ADP 4.06

Clark at 5.02, after his ADP 4.04

Finley 5.04 before his ADP is 5.05

Vernon Davis at 5.05, a half around after his 4.11 ADP.

Witten 5.06, after his 5.03 ADP.

Celek 6.08, nearly a round after his 5.10 ADP.

Shiancoe 6.12 ... the first player who actually went earlier than average... and way earlier, 3 rounds versus his 9.06 ADP.

Cooley 8.10 , a pick after his ADP of 8.09

Winslow 8.11 , four picks before his 9.03 ADP

Daniels 8.12, four picks after his 8.08 ADP.

I'm just not seeing some run that benefited you that is out of the ordinary. The most out of the ordinary thing is that you got the top 2 TEs a half round to a round later than normal. The people following you took the TEs who are normally taken in that area of the draft. I marked in blue the three tight ends who were taken ahead of their average draft slot. And of those three, two of them were taken close enough to their ADP it doesn't seem at all unusual.

The lone pick that would be at all unusual is Shiancoe, and in absence of anything else unusual regarding TEs from your draft I don't see why I'd chalk that up to being caused by a panic. As opposed to something like he's a Minny homer or he thinks the loss of Rice will translate into a big jump for Shiancoe.
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:goodposting:

videoguy505 said:
Brindrod,

People like you are what have killed the Shart Pool.

Please set your keyboard on fire.
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:lmao:
 
The problem with this strategy is regression to the mean.

I don't know if tight ends are more likely to regress in seasons following statistical explosions than any other position, or less so. But when a studly 1800yfs/15 TD running back regresses at your flex, you end up with a 1200yfs/8TD disappointment you have to work around. When a stud TE regresses, you end up with 500/5, and your team is doomed.

Even elite and uber-consistent TE's like Gates and Gonzo, don't have annual averages you'd want over a decent RB or WR unless TE's get double the reception points or something.

 
Jeebus, if you're not getting killed for not going out on a limb, you're getting killed for the limb you went out on. ETA: That's what's really killing the shark pool.

With the RB pools being as deep as they are, it's not a bad thought. Don't think I'll try it, but it hardly deserves to be ridiculed.

 
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PatrickT said:
Jeebus, if you're not getting killed for not going out on a limb, you're getting killed for the limb you went out on. ETA: That's what's really killing the shark pool. With the RB pools being as deep as they are, it's not a bad thought. Don't think I'll try it, but it hardly deserves to be ridiculed.
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There's a difference between going out on a limb and just plain "silly"Assuming the draft unfolds as a normal draft does, there are more points to be had at any given ADP from the WR or RB position than the TE position. Why would you intentionally handicap yourself by as much as a point per game from that draft pick just for the novel nature of the two TE set? Sure..there is a chance that the draft unfolds in a manner where there is more value at TE than WR/RB, then it might make sense to do this. However to actively PLAN on a strategy that involves decreasing your point production at a certain pick under the (false) hopes of triggering the rest of the league to "reach" for players is a bit silly. Of course.. I'm no "shark" and this is just my opinion.
 
[icon] said:
PatrickT said:
Jeebus, if you're not getting killed for not going out on a limb, you're getting killed for the limb you went out on. ETA: That's what's really killing the shark pool. With the RB pools being as deep as they are, it's not a bad thought. Don't think I'll try it, but it hardly deserves to be ridiculed.
Click to expand...
There's a difference between going out on a limb and just plain "silly"Assuming the draft unfolds as a normal draft does, there are more points to be had at any given ADP from the WR or RB position than the TE position. Why would you intentionally handicap yourself by as much as a point per game from that draft pick just for the novel nature of the two TE set? Sure..there is a chance that the draft unfolds in a manner where there is more value at TE than WR/RB, then it might make sense to do this. However to actively PLAN on a strategy that involves decreasing your point production at a certain pick under the (false) hopes of triggering the rest of the league to "reach" for players is a bit silly. Of course.. I'm no "shark" and this is just my opinion.
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Well, couldn't you say the same about taking a QB in round 1? That offers the most overall points per ADP, but only a 1 or 2 QBs are taken in the 1st round. It's all about what value you think you can get at the next tier of X position. :shrug: I'm no shark either, just didn't think it was silly. Risky, yes, but at least worth discussion.
 
PatrickT said:
Well, couldn't you say the same about taking a QB in round 1? That offers the most overall points per ADP, but only a 1 or 2 QBs are taken in the 1st round. It's all about what value you think you can get at the next tier of X position. :goodposting: I'm no shark either, just didn't think it was silly. Risky, yes, but at least worth discussion.
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Last week someone came in here and posed the thread for discussion. It was pretty well received and shot down for many of the same reasons it was presented here. This guy came in (without doing a search to discover this had already been covered) with a thread title "THE END OF RB/RB" or whatever and with a "I'm schooling you guys" tone in a thread that actually came off as a thinly veiled rate my team. There are two ways to go about this.
 
PatrickT said:
Well, couldn't you say the same about taking a QB in round 1? That offers the most overall points per ADP, but only a 1 or 2 QBs are taken in the 1st round.
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you're comparing postiion a vs position b. He's discussing using an inherently more expensive position (in terms of FP per $/ADP in a flex position that could be inhabited by a player with a higher ROI. Apples and oranges. This is not necessarily about maximizing the points earned at each round. It's about maximizing your weekly point output from each of your starting slots. If you can get WR2 production out of a WR taken in the 6th round, then why would you spend a 5th round pick on a second TE to fill that same Flex spot? Take the 6th round WR and use that 5th round spot to get better return on your pick. :goodposting:
 
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PatrickT said:
Jeebus, if you're not getting killed for not going out on a limb, you're getting killed for the limb you went out on. ETA: That's what's really killing the shark pool.
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I think he's getting ridiculed for bragging and thinking he drafted an amazing team, and also for thinking he started TE runs when another poster posted the ADP's of TE's and where they went his the OP's draft.
 
I'm not sure it was justified using the scoring system and the actual execution of the OP, but I just drafted TE/TE with the plan to start both with one for a flex in a draft last night.

The differences are my scoring structure and roster requirements. We get 1 pt for RB catches, 2 pt for WR catches, 3 pt (!!) for TE catches. I am required to carry exactly 2 TE, 4 RB, and 4 WR. I must start 1 RB, 1 WR, 1 TE and 2 Flex. Since I have to roster 2 TE and am limited at RB and WR to 4, it opens more upside plays late at RB/WR in mid to late rounds, and actually utilizes that roster spot rather than storing a bye week fill in at TE18. Despite the 3 pt for TE thing, people in this league draft like a normal non ppr draft, so the TE's are crazy value (Clark, Gates and Davis were all in the top 10 scoring for all RB/WR/TE last year, with Clark finishing 4th behind only the top 3 RB's).

Anyway, I went Dallas Clark at 3.08 and Finley at 4.03 (Gates and Witten gone before I made either pick). I did not do so, though, to cause some panic or care what my leaguemates did, because at best it causes one player to slide. I did it because it made sense for my league scoring system and roster requirements, and because elite tight ends can score as much as elite wide receivers and top 12 running backs.

 
I don't think the OP deserves the flak he's gotten. The tone of the original post obviously doesn't help things and I can understand when some people got rubbed the wrong way by it. But I think the Shark Pool is better when we let things like that slide and deal with the part of the topic worth discussing.

Actually one of my favorite things to see in the Shark Pool is when someone makes a post that to me is an obvious fishing trip... and the Shark Pool ignores the fishing aspect and turns it into a serious, worthwhile discussion. I sometimes imagine I can almost hear an OP at times like that grinding his teeth in frustration that we turned a juvenile act into something meaningful. Not that I'm saying this thread was a fishing trip... I just mean, it's possible to have a good discussion even if it didn't start out in ideal fashion.

 
JKL said:
I'm not sure it was justified using the scoring system and the actual execution of the OP, but I just drafted TE/TE with the plan to start both with one for a flex in a draft last night.The differences are my scoring structure and roster requirements. We get 1 pt for RB catches, 2 pt for WR catches, 3 pt (!!) for TE catches. I am required to carry exactly 2 TE, 4 RB, and 4 WR. I must start 1 RB, 1 WR, 1 TE and 2 Flex. Since I have to roster 2 TE and am limited at RB and WR to 4, it opens more upside plays late at RB/WR in mid to late rounds, and actually utilizes that roster spot rather than storing a bye week fill in at TE18. Despite the 3 pt for TE thing, people in this league draft like a normal non ppr draft, so the TE's are crazy value (Clark, Gates and Davis were all in the top 10 scoring for all RB/WR/TE last year, with Clark finishing 4th behind only the top 3 RB's).Anyway, I went Dallas Clark at 3.08 and Finley at 4.03 (Gates and Witten gone before I made either pick). I did not do so, though, to cause some panic or care what my leaguemates did, because at best it causes one player to slide. I did it because it made sense for my league scoring system and roster requirements, and because elite tight ends can score as much as elite wide receivers and top 12 running backs.
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This is obviously a completely different animal. Where TE's get mega-rewarded on a per-reception basis, the few guys likely to snag 80+ balls are like a license to print tickets to the league playoffs.
 
i did this last night but it wasnt a plan going in

drafted finley in round 5 and inexplicably witten was still there in round 7 so i just grabbed the value

i was harshly cursed :rolleyes: on the draft board chat because the guy before me in the turn assumed he could wait til after it swung around to grab witten being as though i already had a TE

should work out well enough

 
Last year a guy in my draft at the 12 spot (12 team league) took Clark and Gates back to back 4/5 round

Rest in peace he didn't make the playoffs. We all had a good laugh about his "shark" move

 
Gopher State said:
Last year a guy in my draft at the 12 spot (12 team league) took Clark and Gates back to back 4/5 roundRest in peace he didn't make the playoffs. We all had a good laugh about his "shark" move
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It was wither 3/4 or 5/6 if he was in the 12th slot.
 
Don't like this strategy in a draft. But in auction leagues where you have 1 or 2 flex spots, and can start 2-3 TEs, love it. Te's usually go for less than the top 16 wrs, but Gates, Clark, Witten and possibly finley, VD and Tony G, can put up wr 10-16 #s. In a draft you pass up too much value at others positions to use the strategy, in an auction league you have a chance to hit big, if the rest of the league is slow to catch on.

 
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