flapgreen
Footballguy
Damn right. I sort of wish we would've signed him to more years. He's a solid, young guy.
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***2011 Chicago Bears Regular Season Thread*** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter CutlerToCutler
- Start date
Chadstroma
Footballguy
flapgreen
Footballguy
Taylor made 7mil last year. Just saying it's better than that one. I don't think it's a bad signing.They signed Barber at a 2 year $5 Mill contract.... ???? Not seeing the money angle here.Who else was out there to sign as backup? I'm saying he's going to be great, but we need a backup from somewhere and Taylor was scheduled to make more than 2.5.Really? This confuses me. I think Barber is a good backup for most any team to have. But I am having a hard time seeing how he fits into a Martz system. Now, if this was the Bears pre-Martz, I would think this was absolute great fit and wonderful signing. He just is not a Martz system guy and that makes me a bit on theGreat signing Barber as backup.
side.ETA: It seems to me to be like signing Taylor and then never using the guy.
twistd
Footballguy
Let's hope that they are looking at more than one. I like the Gholston and Okoye signings. They are worth taking a chance on, and as the Giants have proven, you can never have enough pass rushers. I don't think there is much left at WR to look at besides Floyd and Edwards. Floyd is drawing a lot of attention. Kind of curious why Edwards is not. Both are probably going to command more than the Bears are willing to pay.
flapgreen
Footballguy
I read Edwards us wanting #1 WR money. That's probably the reason. He has a bad attitude and he still thinks he's a #1. No thanks. Floyd is probably wanting more than he's worth too. I wouldn't be surprised if Kruetz ended up back in Chicago. Lot of posturing going on right now.
twistd
Footballguy
Edwards may have a change of heart as the market dries up. Floyd seems to be generating more interest right now. I'd guess it's because his price will be more reasonable, but if Santana Moss got $15 million for three years, with $6 million guaranteed, Floyd is going to ask for more than that, maybe 3 years for $18 million. Sidney Rice got 5 years for $41 million. Holmes got 5 years for $50 million with $24 million guaranteed. Edwards is probably expecting somewhere close to the Rice money and I don't think he'll get it. There doesn't seem to be a lot of interest. Another guy that might be worth looking at is Mark Clayton. I don't think he is signed.Kreutz may end up in Chicago. It seems that $500,000 is a relatively small amount to be fighting over considering. I'm glad they are really looking at just a one year deal for Kreutz.
twistd
Footballguy
I don't know anything about Spencer. In a way I admire the Bears for sticking to their guns on this. The Bears were offering more than probably anyone else will offer. Kreutz decided to be stubborn, and now it is done. We will see if they do anything else with the line. But you have to look at Spencer as a downgrade, if nothing else, from an experience point of view. We will see how this harms chemistry with the team, and with the line in particular.
This could be a good thing. I was reading an article (i think by briggs) that said cutler came to camp with more of a leadership attitude. Maybe olin leaving will force cutler to take ahold of being the leader in chicago. It may be for the best in the long run
twistd
Footballguy
$4 million is probably more than anyone else was going to pay him. I bet he doesn't get $3 million from anyone else. So the Bears were willing to overpay, but not as much as he wanted. I don't really blame them. He is a leader, but his play has dropped off. However, my guess is that Spencer isn't quite as good, and they don't seem to have a back up plan if Spencer gets hurt. Garza and Chris Williams have taken snaps at camp and looked terrible. So I can understand the principle involved, but they sort of shot themselves in the foot a little.
RBM
Footballguy
Happy with this. Olin was one of my all time favorites but he has been awful for a couple of yrs now.
RBM
Footballguy
Spencer is a former first rd pick that has been steadily starting for Seattle for years now. I think he also may have played guard in college or early on in Sea
el-gato-grande
Footballguy
The truth is Spencer will probably never be as good as Olin was in his prime but he's better than Olin is now at 35. This is an upgrade for the Bears.
flapgreen
Footballguy
From the sounds of it from JA, the Bears are done signing OL. 
Draft an OT and replace the team leader at C, and now the worst offensive line in the league is going to get better? You go, Jerry.
eta: How do they expect to block Detroit and Green Bay's rush? One of the worst offenses in the league and you bring in a replacement at center and a washed up WR that hasn't done anything in years? Poor Cutler. Guy never had a chance. :(
Draft an OT and replace the team leader at C, and now the worst offensive line in the league is going to get better? You go, Jerry. eta: How do they expect to block Detroit and Green Bay's rush? One of the worst offenses in the league and you bring in a replacement at center and a washed up WR that hasn't done anything in years?
Poor Cutler. Guy never had a chance. :(
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twistd
Footballguy
Here is an even scary thing, the Bears stayed healthy on the line last year. Imagine how much they will suck with any injuries. Who is even going to back up Spencer? Carimi is an upgrade, but Tice is going to need to be a miracle worker to make this group even average. Tice is a great coach, but I think the season is slipping away and Angelo doesn't even get it.Starting OL:WebbCarimiGarzaSpencerWilliams
Wow, the doom and gloom is depressing around here. The bears won the division last year and really havent lost anything this year. Olsen and olin were great bears, but really were not that productive last year. I imagine roy can match 40 catches and 5 tds. its not uncommon for an offense to struggle the first year in a system, especially a complicted one like martz's. Just from being.more comfortable in the system, the offense should improve, couple that with how much the offense improved.in the second half of the year and they should have a decent year.The defense hasnt really lost anything (manning and harris?). If one or two of their "homerun swing" guys pan out, they improved their team.I am very concerned with the long term plan for the team though. the defense is getting old...Here is an even scary thing, the Bears stayed healthy on the line last year. Imagine how much they will suck with any injuries. Who is even going to back up Spencer? Carimi is an upgrade, but Tice is going to need to be a miracle worker to make this group even average. Tice is a great coach, but I think the season is slipping away and Angelo doesn't even get it.Starting OL:WebbCarimiGarzaSpencerWilliams
Is the line worse this year? Carimi is an upgrade, spencer it's likely a wash at worst? The line played better after they moved webb to tackle, now he gets the whole preaeason to work there.I'm not saying the bears are going to the super bowl or anything, but you guys are acting like the bears were 5-11 last year and didn't add any talent.I dobt love the moves this year, but it does leave them in good cap position for next year, which if relevent, while still adding players that that think can help the team.'flapgreen said:
flapgreen
Footballguy
Things fell perfectly for us last year as far as winning the division, going to the NFC championship and having very few injuries. I doubt it goes that well again. If anyone goes down on the line this season, we are completely screwed. Cutler got abused last season, and I don't see the line or the offense improving much, if any. Spencer isn't going to immediately step in and take Kruetz's place. No offseason to prepare. Not experienced with Martz's offense. Center is far different than the other positions on OL. He will need a season to adjust, and center may be the most important position on the line. It's going to be a long season again for Cutler. I don't think there's anyway around it. I hope he doesn't get a career threatening injury while we're waiting to sign more OL next season. This could be a catastrophe for Jay.
twistd
Footballguy
I agree 100%. Tice did an amazing job last year. I think it is asking too much to ask him to take this group of below average players, hopefully Carimi being the exception, and improve this line dramatically. I'm not overly impressed with Webb. He may get better, but I haven't seen a lot that is encouraging at this point. I think you are right about Spencer. He may be fine, but to a degree it is a step back, as you said, because he has to learn and jell with the rest of the line. Garza isn't very good. Chris Williams is terrible. I haven't seen anything from the younger guys that is impressive. I think this is a disaster waiting to happen.
flapgreen
Footballguy
All Jerry had to do in free agency this week was get a good wide receiver and a couple average to above average linemen, and the dumb #### couldn't even do that. Absolutely loooove his explanation at the press conference. Totally professional and not defensive at all.
"They didn't hire me to be loved. Okay? They hired me to make decisions based on what's in the best interest of the team!"
"Don't tell me about our problems. Give me solutions. I'm in the solution business, not identifying the problems."
"Tell me who you want? Who should we look at? Give me names."
"We brought in an experienced center that's still in the prime of his career. It's the best we could do."
"We need to start developing some young players and how are you going to develop them if you don't play them?"
"These offensive linemen are tough to find. We've got a good nucleus of young guys."
JA may be the biggest ####### in sports. :finger: Is he intentionally trying to sabotage the team and mess up the entire locker room? This moron just doesn't get it. On top of the idiotic way he's handled the team and protected his star QB, how could a GM possibly handle himself any worse in a press conference? I'm blown away. 
I hope he gets hit by a bus on the way to the field tomorrow. Hell, Jay might as well step in front of a train, because that's what it's going to feel like all season. At least this way, he can get it over all at once, instead of a slow painful death over a few months. 
"They didn't hire me to be loved. Okay? They hired me to make decisions based on what's in the best interest of the team!"
"Don't tell me about our problems. Give me solutions. I'm in the solution business, not identifying the problems."
"Tell me who you want? Who should we look at? Give me names."
"We brought in an experienced center that's still in the prime of his career. It's the best we could do."
"We need to start developing some young players and how are you going to develop them if you don't play them?"
"These offensive linemen are tough to find. We've got a good nucleus of young guys."
JA may be the biggest ####### in sports. :finger: Is he intentionally trying to sabotage the team and mess up the entire locker room? This moron just doesn't get it. On top of the idiotic way he's handled the team and protected his star QB, how could a GM possibly handle himself any worse in a press conference? I'm blown away. I hope he gets hit by a bus on the way to the field tomorrow. Hell, Jay might as well step in front of a train, because that's what it's going to feel like all season. At least this way, he can get it over all at once, instead of a slow painful death over a few months.
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Sweetness_34
Footballguy
All Jerry had to do in free agency this week was get a good wide receiver and a couple average to above average linemen, and the dumb #### couldn't even do that. Absolutely loooove his explanation at the press conference. Totally professional and not defensive at all.
I guess the Bears must not have been the team that was one TD away from the SB last year despite playing with a 3rd string QB for more than half of the NFCC game. Did you not watch the OL get better after the bye? Go look at the sacks or hurries stats if you must? Did you watch the O score 20+ points on the Eagles, Jets, Vikings etc in the 2nd half? And if anything, that OL has improved sicne last year just by adding Carimi and not retaining Olin (who got bull rushed so many times last year especially in goal line situations). What Jerry has done in FA is not throw money at some average player. As for injuries to the OL, we actually have depth this year because Omiyale will be a swing back up tackle and he was the starter last year. Chris WIlliams is one more year removed from his injury. Carimi is a horse who has has never missed games. Garza was injured last year which led to the shuffle in the OL that led to the debacle pre bye last year. Spencer has had an injury history but he did play 16 games last year and he is only 29. I do not get the gloom and doom especially considering all players are also going into their 2nd year of a complex offensive system.Sweetness_34
Footballguy
All Jerry had to do in free agency this week was get a good wide receiver and a couple average to above average linemen, and the dumb #### couldn't even do that. Absolutely loooove his explanation at the press conference. Totally professional and not defensive at all.
I guess the Bears must not have been the team that was one TD away from the SB last year despite playing with a 3rd string QB for more than half of the NFCC game. Did you not watch the OL get better after the bye? Go look at the sacks or hurries stats if you must? Did you watch the O score 20+ points on the Eagles, Jets, Vikings etc in the 2nd half? And if anything, that OL has improved sicne last year just by adding Carimi and not retaining Olin (who got bull rushed so many times last year especially in goal line situations). What Jerry has done in FA is not throw money at some average player. As for injuries to the OL, we actually have depth this year because Omiyale will be a swing back up tackle and he was the starter last year. Chris WIlliams is one more year removed from his injury. Carimi is a horse who has has never missed games. Garza was injured last year which led to the shuffle in the OL that led to the debacle pre bye last year. Spencer has had an injury history but he did play 16 games last year and he is only 29. I do not get the gloom and doom especially considering all players are also going into their 2nd year of a complex offensive system.benson_will_lead_the_way
Footballguy
Welcome to the world of ignoreAll Jerry had to do in free agency this week was get a good wide receiver and a couple average to above average linemen, and the dumb #### couldn't even do that. Absolutely loooove his explanation at the press conference. Totally professional and not defensive at all.
monsterofmidway
Footballguy
twistd
Footballguy
I thought that going in to this year the most glaring need was to improve the offensive line. Yes, the Bears line improved last year, but they could have hardly gotten worse. They gave up nine sacks to the Giants in one of the worst displays of offensive line play I've ever seen. They gave up the most sacks for the season. I felt that Tice had to work with what he had and he did a great job. But I didn't think he was developing guys for the future, I felt he was just trying to make the best of what he had and then they would retool in the offseason. I felt like they would definitely bring in two solid starters, maybe three. Drafting Carimi was a good start. And they did try to get Colon. He would have been an excellent addition. Spencer may be a little improvement over Kreutz, but he was the fallback position because they couldn't sign Kruetz. I am not sold on Webb. Williams is a bust as far as I'm concerned, and Garza is a below average guard. This scheme requires really good offensive line play to be effective. I felt that going in to this season the single most pressing thing was to upgrade the offensive line. It was one of the worst in the league last year. Carimi helps, and Spencer helps a little bit, but it is definitely not enough IMO.All Jerry had to do in free agency this week was get a good wide receiver and a couple average to above average linemen, and the dumb #### couldn't even do that. Absolutely loooove his explanation at the press conference. Totally professional and not defensive at all.
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I.have to disagree about Tice's development of guys last year. He IS developing them for long term. Webb and williams are young, he isnt just trying to make due with them, he believes he can make them solid players. I think he proved he.can at the end of the year last year. Williams may be a bust at tackle, but he should be able to be a solid guard. Tice loves Webb (or so he says). I think you are underestimating these guys. We now have 3 first round picks on the line, I expect Tice to.bring the talent out in all of them. But if he.cant, dont forget that we signed several udfa linemen (including the.most highly rated center). I dont think it is that uncommon for udfa linemen to become successful.I thought that going in to this year the most glaring need was to improve the offensive line. Yes, the Bears line improved last year, but they could have hardly gotten worse. They gave up nine sacks to the Giants in one of the worst displays of offensive line play I've ever seen. They gave up the most sacks for the season. I felt that Tice had to work with what he had and he did a great job. But I didn't think he was developing guys for the future, I felt he was just trying to make the best of what he had and then they would retool in the offseason. I felt like they would definitely bring in two solid starters, maybe three. Drafting Carimi was a good start. And they did try to get Colon. He would have been an excellent addition. Spencer may be a little improvement over Kreutz, but he was the fallback position because they couldn't sign Kruetz. I am not sold on Webb. Williams is a bust as far as I'm concerned, and Garza is a below average guard. This scheme requires really good offensive line play to be effective. I felt that going in to this season the single most pressing thing was to upgrade the offensive line. It was one of the worst in the league last year. Carimi helps, and Spencer helps a little bit, but it is definitely not enough IMO.All Jerry had to do in free agency this week was get a good wide receiver and a couple average to above average linemen, and the dumb #### couldn't even do that. Absolutely loooove his explanation at the press conference. Totally professional and not defensive at all.
Mister Martie
Footballguy
A lot of meatball up in here all of the sudden.
SWC
Bromigo
i hereby predict that the bears will be a very tough team this year and be very hard to beat and will suprise all of the naysayers and soothsayers in this thread predicting a horrible season of about 4 wins and a fractured lockerroom because they still have jay cutler who is a great qb weapon with a cannon for an arm who would probably thow a football out of a stadium Uncle Rico style
SmoovySmoov
The Way of the Samurai
Psst....it was kinda funny the first time. Not so much on repeat.
destro
Footballguy
It hasn't been THAT sudden. Check the Olsen/Roy Williams threads for more emotional, irrational meatballery.Also, RE: the offensive line concerns -I doubt they become a great OL this year, but do not be surprised if they become a solid unit towards the end of the season, similar to last season, except with a higher ceiling. Webb has real potential to at least be an average OT in this league, with a decent chance at more. He was very raw last season, but improved steadily. He slipped very far in the draft due to some questions about his past and academic problems forcing him into DII ball, but he has the physical tools, and Tice should be able to turn him into a quality OT. Webb was actually originally at UT, and they tend to recruit pretty well. If he didn't get bounced out of UT, he may have ended up in the first three rounds of the draft. Carimi, we should all know, definitely has the tools as well. I think by the end of 2011, the Bears will have two solid bookend tackles to build around. Chris Spencer will likely be marginally better than Kreutz, because Kreutz has been a terrible blocker for years now. Garza, Williams, and the rest are mediocre, but I feel pretty good about their tackles going forward.I expect early cohesion issues, like last year, but I think they will steadily improve and end up performing better at the end of this season than they were at the end of last season. This is all, of course, assuming they stay relatively healthy.
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SWC
Bromigo
im not tryingto be funny i think he is one of the best qbs in the league who will blossom and continue his ascent to thetop of the rankings just wait i mean it hes just got that air about himself take it to the bank!
destro
Footballguy
Statcruncher
Footballguy
I don't really watch any games other than Bear games, so I didn't know much about Spaeth other than he's supposed to be a better blocking TE than Olsen. I was sad to see Olsen go, but I completely support getting personnel who better fit the system. Martz uses TE as a blocker, not a weapon, so I totally understand the move. I did a little digging and found this TE blocking efficiency comparison. According to this it appears that:
Spaeth's blocking isn't really any better than Olsen's
Manumaleuna was one of the worst blocking TE long before Chicago paid him 7 million last year
These seeming errant player evaluations coupled with the lack of OL improvement and "budget" FA signings don't give me a warm fuzzy feeling about the team. There's no way Cutler can take another year of beatings like he did last year. Anyone have any idea of how the Bears will be able to protect Cutler?
Spaeth's blocking isn't really any better than Olsen's
Manumaleuna was one of the worst blocking TE long before Chicago paid him 7 million last year
These seeming errant player evaluations coupled with the lack of OL improvement and "budget" FA signings don't give me a warm fuzzy feeling about the team. There's no way Cutler can take another year of beatings like he did last year. Anyone have any idea of how the Bears will be able to protect Cutler?
twistd
Footballguy
One thing that gives me hope is that I believe Tice is a terrific coach. But you have to wonder about the Bears pursuit of Colon. If what we heard about the Bears pursing Colon was true. If the Bears were sold on Webb why did they go after Colon? Was Colon the only tackle out there they felt strongly about? Was Colon so talented that they couldn't help but make a run at him? We have actually heard nothing about the pursuit of any other linemen. So maybe Colon was the only offensive linemen they felt strongly about. Were they hoping to sign Colon so they could allow Webb more time to develop, or were they intending to move Webb inside? IF they do believe in Webb then the real weakness here is at guard. I agree with your assessment of Williams. I think Tice has gotten everything out of Williams he is going to get. He just isn't a very good player. Garza is mediocre too. Spencer may be a minor improvement over Kreutz, but he is nothing special. I do believe that Carimi has the tools to be a very good player. I hope you are right that Webb can develop. And I hope that this unit jells in to at least an average unit, but I am not optimistic. Carimi's addition does help, but he has to be a starter from day one, and stay healthy. Webb has to take some gigantic steps forward. And maybe someone like Louis needs to step forward and outplay Garza or Williams. I would have felt much better if they had signed Colon, or maybe signed Gallery or Dahl. Then they would have upgraded two spots and added Spencer. Then let the rest of the guys battle it out for the remaining spots. I just don't have a good feeling about this, but I really hope you are right.
Power Monster
The Midnight Stalker
Gee I guess if someone has a different opinion then the football masters they are a meatball that ties emotion to irrational behavior. Maybe we should all just take a cue from the Sox and be "all in". After all, the great Lovie Smith, the even greater jumpin Jerry Angelo, the suddenly greater than ever Mike Tice and Mike Martz have just sent shock waves around the NFL. Not to worry Bear fans- all is well in the hands of the football masters and they sure have proven to me that they can dominate the NFL.
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I dont think anyone is saying that the line is going to be great or that the offense is going to be top 5. But to ignore the improvements the offense made the second half of last year and to ignore that they are in the second year of the system and to assume they will be horrible is pretty pessimistic. Also, I'm not a huge angelo fan, but the bears ate traditionally a pretty good team.
3nOut
Footballguy
Watched it too. Incredible, special season. Really amazing. I think that's one of the problems though; Bears fans were spoiled by that season and want that magic again. But I don't think that can ever happen, by any team. The bar in Chicago is set very high.Special on the 85 Bears on NFL Network right now.
