AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
I think it's reasonable that Louis Lipps has to wait for the veterans committee before he takes his place in Canton, and was not 1st Ballot.'Ghost Rider said:
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Ben Roethlisberger - first ballot HOFer? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter David Yudkin
- Start date
Tau837
Footballguy
I think he is close right now, but if his career ended today, IMO he would not make it. However, if he maintains a reasonably good level of play for 5+ more years and/or if he is the QB for another Super Bowl win, I think he'll get in. It would also help if he earned some more honors/awards (MVP, Super Bowl MVP, All Pro selections, Pro Bowl selections).
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Fensalk
Footballguy
I wouldn't be shocked if he finally has an injury that ends his career in the next 2 seasons. When you're young, you can bounce back. But I doubt he can keep this up.I wonder if Ben is going to be one of those athletes that have slurred speech and can barely walk when he's 50.'David Yudkin said:
glumpy
breeze
Wow--did not realize the bolded. I think he will get in but for the poll voted not immediately. Dunno how the personal issues might play into it.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
With our OLine over the years, except for possibly Rodgers, these guys would likely be dead.'David Yudkin said:
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dgreen
Footballguy
Probably because it's not true.Norm Van Brocklin, Y.A. Tittle, Sonny Jurgensen, Joe Namath, Fran Tarkenton, Len Dawson, and Bob Griese all were inducted after their first year of eligibility.
Tau837
Footballguy
I stand corrected. Not sure why I had that impression. However, at a quick glance, it looks like the majority of QBs have made it in their first year of eligibility, including the last 9 QBs inducted. (Wish the HOF site was more user friendly, with sortable lists, positions listed, etc.)
Tau837
Footballguy
I think this point gets overstated. People say the Steelers have a bad offensive line because Roethlisberger gets sacked and hit a lot. But Roethlisberger holds the ball much longer than most other QBs, so he is a big reason for that.With our OLine over the years, except for possibly Rodgers, these guys would likely be dead.'David Yudkin said:
dgreen
Footballguy
For some reason Otto Graham isn't in that link. He was inducted in 1965. He was mainly caught in the backlog of the first few years, I assume.So, of the 23 Modern Era Quarterbacks in the HOF, 15 were first-timers (16 if you count Graham). And, like you say, there have been 9 straight (our love for the QB grows).
Historically, I'd think Roethlisberger and Griese would be a good comparison? Both were winners on pretty stacked teams that were outshined by a competing dynasty in their day?
ThaPenguin
Footballguy
I think this point gets overstated. People say the Steelers have a bad offensive line because Roethlisberger gets sacked and hit a lot. But Roethlisberger holds the ball much longer than most other QBs, so he is a big reason for that.With our OLine over the years, except for possibly Rodgers, these guys would likely be dead.'David Yudkin said:
Ben for sure holds on too long, but the oline is wretched. He sometimes barely finishes his drop when 2 DEs are on top of him.Tanner9919
Footballguy
Brady never won a superbowl when his defense wasn't ranked within the top 6 (profootballreference)Brady hasn't won a Superbowl post spygate, either..say what you want about the cheating, but the fact remains, since BB was caught with his hand in the cookie jar, NE has not won a Superbowl..'Chase Stuart said:
Ben ranks 8th All-Time in post season wins ( 10-3 record), and his .769 winning percentage is higher than Brady's ( .737) Johnny Unitas ( .750), Thiesmann(.750), Aikman ( .733), Joe Montana ( .696), John Elway ( .667), Kurt Warner ( .692), to name a few.
If not for a costly Mendenhall fumble late in last year's SB, we're talking about a 3-time SB winning QB..
AmosMoses
Footballguy
You could say that about anyone.I think this point gets overstated. People say the Steelers have a bad offensive line because Roethlisberger gets sacked and hit a lot. But Roethlisberger holds the ball much longer than most other QBs, so he is a big reason for that.With our OLine over the years, except for possibly Rodgers, these guys would likely be dead.'David Yudkin said:
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Yes to both. Harrison won DPOY, 4 Pro Bowls, 2 time 1st-team all-Pro and is still a terror. Hampton is a 5-time Pro Bowler and probably the best 3-4 NT of his generation. Both have multiple rings.'FUBAR said:
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
I think it's reasonable that Louis Lipps has to wait for the veterans committee before he takes his place in Canton, and was not 1st Ballot.'Ghost Rider said:
Walter Abercrombie is still waiting and you don't hear me yelling about it, do you?BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
UNDERstated, 'cuz they win.I think this point gets overstated. People say the Steelers have a bad offensive line because Roethlisberger gets sacked and hit a lot. But Roethlisberger holds the ball much longer than most other QBs, so he is a big reason for that.With our OLine over the years, except for possibly Rodgers, these guys would likely be dead.'David Yudkin said:
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
I think Ben is more indespensible to his team nowadays than Griese ever was. Earl Morrall won a lot of big games for Miami when Griese was hurt.
Frenchy Fuqua
Footballguy
Excellent.He's also the hero in two of the biggest plays in postseason history, The Tackle and The Throw. Both led to Super Bowl victories.
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AmosMoses
Footballguy
Good god.
The_Man
Footballguy
Come on. Do you know how many Defensive Tackles have gone into the HOF since Joe Greene in 1987? Dan Hampton, who was also an end, Alan Page, John Randle, and Randy White. That's it.Warren Sapp will probably make it. The all-2000s DTs were Sapp and Richard Seymour (first team) and Kevin Williams and La'Roi Glover. Those last three are longshots and are all ahead of Hampton, as are current contemporaries Wilfork and Ngata. And Suh will soon enter the conversation.
Not every good Steeler is a legit HOF canidate.
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Pats haven't won a Superbowl since they lost Charlie Weis and Romeo Crennel.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
I'm going to "make a case" for anyone they throw out there, just for fun. I don't really think either guy will make the HOF
Ben Stiller
Footballguy
Brady's most memorable playoff moment? got to be the tuck rulePeyton's?? Good lord.. any number of chokes but probably his pick 6 in the Super Bowl.
..interesting contrasts
dgreen
Footballguy
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Those aren't even the biggest postseason plays by that franchise, much less all of the others.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
I think he's in, past transgressions aside.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Not only that, he hasn'y even been in a Super Bowl since the 2010 season.'GridironMenace said:
dgreen
Footballguy
That could just be more of an argument that Morrall > Pitt backup QBs rather than Ben > Griese.Ben's regular season winning %: 0.708Without Ben: 0.600Griese's regular season winning %: 0.619Without Griese: 0.627Griese through the age of 29: 0.639Without Griese: 0.591Interestingly, the Without Griese numbers are skewed with a 9-0 record by Morrall in 1972. I think it can be argued that most competent QBs might have led that team to a really good record that season. Other than that season, Griese's replacements were 23-19 over his career and only 4-9 through the age of 29. Now compare that to Ben being skewed by a 13-0 record in his favor in his rookie year. He definitely posted some nice numbers for a rookie, but I believe the general thought is that he didn't get a lot of the credit for that record.I'm not clear to me that Ben > Griese.ETA: Keep in mind that Griese joined a Dolphins team that was in its second year of existence and Roethlisberger joined one of the more consistent winners of his time. It took the Dolphins a couple years to surround Griese with talent. Roethlisberger had that immediately.
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
I've honestly never heard of either of these plays. Immaculate reception yes. The catch, yes. Never heard of either of these.
Frenchy Fuqua
Footballguy
Please tell me what could be bigger than a pinpoint TD pass that wins a Super Bowl in the final minute.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Throwing a pick to Jarret Bush when Heath Miller isn't even covered, or a pick 6 to Nick Collins to put your team into a huge hole against the best offense in the NFL.
Reepicheep
Footballguy
GoodLloydHaveMercy
Footballguy
Tough to have a #1 defense and a really good pass protecting line & great weapons on offense all at the same time... its rare... at best teams may get 2 out of 3 of those at a time. Not saying they wouldn't obviously benefit from better defenses but part of what makes Ben work for the Steelers is that he is able to extend plays when protection breaks down. There is always the argument that he holds the ball too long and that is fair at times but I also see an awful lot of protection screw ups and immediate pressure as well (especially when Kemoeatu is starting at LG).QB pressure in the playoffs is even more paramount and I have ALOT more confidence in Ben than anyone else as far as getting things done despite getting knocked around and harassed all day long.Here's how I rank them if the D is banging them around all day long...Ben (bring it on)Rodgers (can still kill ya)Brees (surprisingly more agile and athletic than most think)Brady (starts to press and get frustrated... see playoffs since NE vs. NYG superbowl season)Manning (seriously rarely gets hurt because he falls down before they get there)I feel like THAT is what makes him an elite QB... He is accurate enough (behind the other 4 for sure)... I like to call it "Fathleticism" and u can see a big difference when he TRULY can't break tackles because of his ankle against SF and the Brownies.He's big and Fat and a pig as a human but he also is an enigma in this league and IS a HOFer. If he gets to another SB and wins he will be 1st ballot.'David Yudkin said:
GoodLloydHaveMercy
Footballguy
fixedI think it's reasonable that Louis Lipps has to wait for the veterans committee before he takes his place in Canton, and was not 1st Ballot.'Ghost Rider said:
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
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Frenchy Fuqua
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Get real, man. Ask 99% of football fans (that aren't Steelers homers) what they think of when The Tackle is mentioned, and they'll say Dyson being tackled at the 1. Same thing for Clark and The Catch. The fact that Steelers fans are trying to attach those phrases to important plays in their own history doesn't change that.
You can't say that about Holmes' catch. They could have still won that game very easily without that catch. They still would have a 3rd down play to score the winning TD, and possible OT to win it had they had to settle for a FG there at the end of regulation. Still a great catch by Holmes, regardless.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Uh, guys, he never said "The Catch." He said "The Throw." Although, in the interest of full disclosure, I never heard anyone outside of Steeler fans refer to that play as "The Throw", I've heard many, many national commentators call the play against Indy "The Tackle", more so than I've heard it applied to the St. Louis/Tennessee Super Bowl.
Copeman
Footballguy
Sure I can say it. We'll never know what might have happened if that play wasn't made. He could have pulled a Warner-Harrison type interception. But he didn't. He made one of the best/most famous throws ever.
Frenchy Fuqua
Footballguy
Call those two plays what you like but questioning their significance is just plain ignorant. Steve Sabol has called the "the SB-winning Roethlisberger-Holmes TD" the greatest TD catch in NFL history.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
I personally think, and this is said objectively, not as a Steelers fan, that it was both a better throw and a better catch than the Montana-Clark play, plus it won a Super Bowl, while "The Catch" happened in a conference championship.
ivnabru
Footballguy
It's possible (but unlikely) that he's in the conversation in 5-10 years when Ben has a similar number of games under his belt as Peyton and Brady. But right now there's no question he's not even in the same class. And the winner comment Brady has more Superbowls and a better overall winning % (although Ben has a better playoff % now). Then again the difference between Brady's playoff numbers and Ben's numbers are Brady is 4-2 with 1 more Superbowl. Brady is also 44-2 in the 46 regular season games he has played more than Ben.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Ben is not in Brady's class but very few are. If Ben can win another Super Bowl he probably is a first ballot HoFer. Heck, given his own injuries and the overall health of the Steelers he may deserve HoF consideration if this team even makes the Super Bowl. I don't see it happening though...
ivnabru
Footballguy
I wasn't very clear in what I was saying. I do think Ben will be a first ballot guy when it's done. I just was commenting on the comparisons with Peyton or Brady. Maybe when it's all said and done but right now he's not even in the same class.
Tau837
Footballguy
NJDawgPound
Footballguy
I strongly disagree that Roethlisberger is a HOF QB.
Thank you.
Thank you.
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