Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (2 Viewers)

'timschochet said:

'Otis said:

'timschochet said:

'Otis said:

Posters in here are way too, uh -- prolific -- for me to even go back and find the discussion of the major thing that happened like a day ago, but what has been the reaction in here to Z's testimony at the bond hearing?

I thought he came across really well, and the prosecutor came off like an ########. Z seemed honestly sad for the family, and credible, and I love how the prosecutor tried to trip him up with BS ridiculous questions and he remained composed and direct and came out of it squeaky clean. Zimmerman was dynamite on the stand, I thought. If he is as credible/likeable at trial and takes the stand there, he'll be at a big advantage going in, at least in view of all the evidence we've learned so far.

ETA: link here

Click to expand...

I agree with you, and I mentioned it at the time. There were several things we learned at the bond hearing, almost all of them to Zimmerman's advantage, and his credibility and intelligence on the witness stand was one of the most important. Whether or not he can sustain that facing a prepared and lengthy cross-examination remains a big question. Chaos Commish, however, brought up some points critical of Zimmerman's performance on the stand which I did not consider at the time. You can find these on the previous page.

Click to expand...

Just read these comments, didn't find them particularly compelling. This hearing was a huge win for Zimmerman, regardless of whether Chaos Commish thinks it was mean to express his sorrow to the family even though they didn't want to hear it. The family, with their rush to the USPTO to trademark catch phrases with their son's name while the body is still warm, and their full-on media blitz (how many times have they appeared on Anderson Cooper already?), isn't making the most compelling case in the world for my sympathy anyway.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't expect them to. You've made very few comments in this thread, but the ones you have made have been all pro-Zimmerman. You were especially outraged, IIRC, at the fact that the Martin parents trademarked their son's name and image to prevent outsiders from ripping them off. I found this to be a perfectly reasonable decision on their part, so we obviously disagree rather strongly on that point.

Click to expand...

'Chaos Commish said:

'Otis said:

Just read these comments, didn't find them particularly compelling. This hearing was a huge win for Zimmerman, regardless of whether Chaos Commish thinks it was mean to express his sorrow to the family even though they didn't want to hear it. The family, with their rush to the USPTO to trademark catch phrases with their son's name while the body is still warm, and their full-on media blitz (how many times have they appeared on Anderson Cooper already?), isn't making the most compelling case in the world for my sympathy anyway.

Click to expand...

Their son was killed and they trademarked two slogans for a charitable foundation in his name. Take issue with the copyright? That's lame. They also moved to stop the use of their sons image as a thug for gun rights advocates. If your daughter was shot and killed by neighborhood watch would you want her image used by those who thought it was a good shoot?

Click to expand...

'Underachievers said:

'Chaos Commish said:

'Otis said:

Just read these comments, didn't find them particularly compelling. This hearing was a huge win for Zimmerman, regardless of whether Chaos Commish thinks it was mean to express his sorrow to the family even though they didn't want to hear it. The family, with their rush to the USPTO to trademark catch phrases with their son's name while the body is still warm, and their full-on media blitz (how many times have they appeared on Anderson Cooper already?), isn't making the most compelling case in the world for my sympathy anyway.

Click to expand...

Their son was killed and they trademarked two slogans for a charitable foundation in his name. Take issue with the copyright? That's lame. They also moved to stop the use of their sons image as a thug for gun rights advocates. If your daughter was shot and killed by neighborhood watch would you want her image used by those who thought it was a good shoot? People who do not understand the context of Zimmerman's self serving apology think he did a nice thing and came off well. Good for the defense. He lied to the parents' faces, changed his story, answered only those questions that might serve him and did so dishonestly. He didn't state that he was answering Sybrina's rhetorical questions (which have haunted him) from a month ago. He just crafted a paragraph that addressed them making himself look good. Google Sybrina Fulton's questions for George and you'll see why he chose those three questions. The others are a little rougher, like if you could do it again would you still pull the trigger? There's an angry media with a huge following who understand. You haven't been following closely (kudos). Maybe that's more representative, but I don't care. It was a nasty move from my box which is following this too closely. I'm going golfing now. ATC said they didn't want a private apology but a public one. They never asked for a public one unless it was again a rhetorical request from the sentencing hearing of a convicted George Zimmerman.

Click to expand...

Don't forget that his parents quit their jobs also.

Click to expand...

'Otis said:

'Underachievers said:

'Chaos Commish said:

'Otis said:

Just read these comments, didn't find them particularly compelling. This hearing was a huge win for Zimmerman, regardless of whether Chaos Commish thinks it was mean to express his sorrow to the family even though they didn't want to hear it. The family, with their rush to the USPTO to trademark catch phrases with their son's name while the body is still warm, and their full-on media blitz (how many times have they appeared on Anderson Cooper already?), isn't making the most compelling case in the world for my sympathy anyway.

Click to expand...

Their son was killed and they trademarked two slogans for a charitable foundation in his name. Take issue with the copyright? That's lame. They also moved to stop the use of their sons image as a thug for gun rights advocates. If your daughter was shot and killed by neighborhood watch would you want her image used by those who thought it was a good shoot? People who do not understand the context of Zimmerman's self serving apology think he did a nice thing and came off well. Good for the defense. He lied to the parents' faces, changed his story, answered only those questions that might serve him and did so dishonestly. He didn't state that he was answering Sybrina's rhetorical questions (which have haunted him) from a month ago. He just crafted a paragraph that addressed them making himself look good. Google Sybrina Fulton's questions for George and you'll see why he chose those three questions. The others are a little rougher, like if you could do it again would you still pull the trigger? There's an angry media with a huge following who understand. You haven't been following closely (kudos). Maybe that's more representative, but I don't care. It was a nasty move from my box which is following this too closely. I'm going golfing now. ATC said they didn't want a private apology but a public one. They never asked for a public one unless it was again a rhetorical request from the sentencing hearing of a convicted George Zimmerman.

Click to expand...

Don't forget that his parents quit their jobs also.

Click to expand...

Seriously??Sick...

Click to expand...

Not to mention Trayvon's parents. They both immediately quit their jobs (naturally), set up a website, and his Mom trademarked his name. Now that's the first thing I would think about if my son was killed. NOT.

Click to expand...

Trayvon's parents, Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin, have left their jobs since their son died, in order to completely commit to fighting for justice. But their expenses are mounting, making it difficult to fund their advocacy efforts, Michael Hall, marketing director and managing partner for MediumFour, told the Huffington Post.

Click to expand...

At press time, Justice For Trayvon Martin had raised $6,065, but Hall -- whose company has donated its marketing efforts to developing the campaign -- said that the family will likely burn through that much money in a month. The civil lawsuit could drag on for more than a year. The family will also need more money to establish -- and grow -- a nonprofit to raise awareness for hate crimes and to work to change the Stand Your Ground law.

Click to expand...

'Christo said:

Tim, even if it's the defense's factual position that Zimmerman followed the operator's advice they are still going to argue the legal position that whatever Zimmerman did, he wasn't required to follow that advice.Do you know why? It's because there could be people who--whatever Zimmerman testifies he did--decide that Zimmerman ignored the operator's advice.There will be a statement in the closing similar to this: You heard the tape where the operator suggested that it wasn't necessary for Mr. Zimmerman to follow Mr. Martin. He said "OK." You also heard Mr. Zimmerman testify that he, in fact, stopped following Mr. Martin at that point and returned to his truck. Even if you don't believe Mr. Zimmerman, and for whatever reason think that the operator's advice was actually an instruction and that Mr. Zimmerman did continue to follow Mr. Martin, the judge is going to instruct you that the law did not require Mr. Zimmerman to stop following Mr. Martin. What you would have done, or what you believe Mr. Zimmerman should have done is irrelevant for the purpose of this trial. All that matters is whether Mr. Zimmerman broke the law when he shot Mr. Martin.

Click to expand...

'Otis said:

Pretty sure that's what the DA is for, and the DA will do a better job of it.

Click to expand...

'dparker713 said:

'Christo said:

Tim, even if it's the defense's factual position that Zimmerman followed the operator's advice they are still going to argue the legal position that whatever Zimmerman did, he wasn't required to follow that advice.Do you know why? It's because there could be people who--whatever Zimmerman testifies he did--decide that Zimmerman ignored the operator's advice.There will be a statement in the closing similar to this: You heard the tape where the operator suggested that it wasn't necessary for Mr. Zimmerman to follow Mr. Martin. He said "OK." You also heard Mr. Zimmerman testify that he, in fact, stopped following Mr. Martin at that point and returned to his truck. Even if you don't believe Mr. Zimmerman, and for whatever reason think that the operator's advice was actually an instruction and that Mr. Zimmerman did continue to follow Mr. Martin, the judge is going to instruct you that the law did not require Mr. Zimmerman to stop following Mr. Martin. What you would have done, or what you believe Mr. Zimmerman should have done is irrelevant for the purpose of this trial. All that matters is whether Mr. Zimmerman broke the law when he shot Mr. Martin.

Click to expand...

Would make more sense for the prosecution to seek a motion in limine to prevent any mention of the legal duty to follow the operator's instructions at all at trial. Its a periferral issue that Z is not charged with and any evidence towards that issue could be deemed more prejudicial than probative. Thus preventing an instruction as above and any chance for the defense to proclaim he followed the law in this context.

Click to expand...

'dparker713 said:

'Otis said:

Pretty sure that's what the DA is for, and the DA will do a better job of it.

Click to expand...

After what we've seen so far, I wouldn't be so sure of that.

Click to expand...

'Otis said:

'dparker713 said:

'Christo said:

Tim, even if it's the defense's factual position that Zimmerman followed the operator's advice they are still going to argue the legal position that whatever Zimmerman did, he wasn't required to follow that advice.Do you know why? It's because there could be people who--whatever Zimmerman testifies he did--decide that Zimmerman ignored the operator's advice.There will be a statement in the closing similar to this: You heard the tape where the operator suggested that it wasn't necessary for Mr. Zimmerman to follow Mr. Martin. He said "OK." You also heard Mr. Zimmerman testify that he, in fact, stopped following Mr. Martin at that point and returned to his truck. Even if you don't believe Mr. Zimmerman, and for whatever reason think that the operator's advice was actually an instruction and that Mr. Zimmerman did continue to follow Mr. Martin, the judge is going to instruct you that the law did not require Mr. Zimmerman to stop following Mr. Martin. What you would have done, or what you believe Mr. Zimmerman should have done is irrelevant for the purpose of this trial. All that matters is whether Mr. Zimmerman broke the law when he shot Mr. Martin.

Click to expand...

Would make more sense for the prosecution to seek a motion in limine to prevent any mention of the legal duty to follow the operator's instructions at all at trial. Its a periferral issue that Z is not charged with and any evidence towards that issue could be deemed more prejudicial than probative. Thus preventing an instruction as above and any chance for the defense to proclaim he followed the law in this context.

Click to expand...

This seems like an even bigger stretch than Tim's view on it. If I'm the prosecution, I'm not too concerned about the defense somehow using this to its advantage.

Click to expand...

'dparker713 said:

'Christo said:

Tim, even if it's the defense's factual position that Zimmerman followed the operator's advice they are still going to argue the legal position that whatever Zimmerman did, he wasn't required to follow that advice.Do you know why? It's because there could be people who--whatever Zimmerman testifies he did--decide that Zimmerman ignored the operator's advice.There will be a statement in the closing similar to this: You heard the tape where the operator suggested that it wasn't necessary for Mr. Zimmerman to follow Mr. Martin. He said "OK." You also heard Mr. Zimmerman testify that he, in fact, stopped following Mr. Martin at that point and returned to his truck. Even if you don't believe Mr. Zimmerman, and for whatever reason think that the operator's advice was actually an instruction and that Mr. Zimmerman did continue to follow Mr. Martin, the judge is going to instruct you that the law did not require Mr. Zimmerman to stop following Mr. Martin. What you would have done, or what you believe Mr. Zimmerman should have done is irrelevant for the purpose of this trial. All that matters is whether Mr. Zimmerman broke the law when he shot Mr. Martin.

Click to expand...

Would make more sense for the prosecution to seek a motion in limine to prevent any mention of the legal duty to follow the operator's instructions at all at trial. Its a periferral issue that Z is not charged with and any evidence towards that issue could be deemed more prejudicial than probative. Thus preventing an instruction as above and any chance for the defense to proclaim he followed the law in this context.

Click to expand...

'Christo said:

'dparker713 said:

'Christo said:

Tim, even if it's the defense's factual position that Zimmerman followed the operator's advice they are still going to argue the legal position that whatever Zimmerman did, he wasn't required to follow that advice.Do you know why? It's because there could be people who--whatever Zimmerman testifies he did--decide that Zimmerman ignored the operator's advice.There will be a statement in the closing similar to this: You heard the tape where the operator suggested that it wasn't necessary for Mr. Zimmerman to follow Mr. Martin. He said "OK." You also heard Mr. Zimmerman testify that he, in fact, stopped following Mr. Martin at that point and returned to his truck. Even if you don't believe Mr. Zimmerman, and for whatever reason think that the operator's advice was actually an instruction and that Mr. Zimmerman did continue to follow Mr. Martin, the judge is going to instruct you that the law did not require Mr. Zimmerman to stop following Mr. Martin. What you would have done, or what you believe Mr. Zimmerman should have done is irrelevant for the purpose of this trial. All that matters is whether Mr. Zimmerman broke the law when he shot Mr. Martin.

Click to expand...

Would make more sense for the prosecution to seek a motion in limine to prevent any mention of the legal duty to follow the operator's instructions at all at trial. Its a periferral issue that Z is not charged with and any evidence towards that issue could be deemed more prejudicial than probative. Thus preventing an instruction as above and any chance for the defense to proclaim he followed the law in this context.

Click to expand...

Really? You're suggesting the prosecution will file a motion in limine to preclude the tape of the phone call--or at least that part of the conversation?You have got to be kidding me.

Click to expand...

'Christo said:

'dparker713 said:

'Christo said:

Tim, even if it's the defense's factual position that Zimmerman followed the operator's advice they are still going to argue the legal position that whatever Zimmerman did, he wasn't required to follow that advice.Do you know why? It's because there could be people who--whatever Zimmerman testifies he did--decide that Zimmerman ignored the operator's advice.There will be a statement in the closing similar to this: You heard the tape where the operator suggested that it wasn't necessary for Mr. Zimmerman to follow Mr. Martin. He said "OK." You also heard Mr. Zimmerman testify that he, in fact, stopped following Mr. Martin at that point and returned to his truck. Even if you don't believe Mr. Zimmerman, and for whatever reason think that the operator's advice was actually an instruction and that Mr. Zimmerman did continue to follow Mr. Martin, the judge is going to instruct you that the law did not require Mr. Zimmerman to stop following Mr. Martin. What you would have done, or what you believe Mr. Zimmerman should have done is irrelevant for the purpose of this trial. All that matters is whether Mr. Zimmerman broke the law when he shot Mr. Martin.

Click to expand...

Would make more sense for the prosecution to seek a motion in limine to prevent any mention of the legal duty to follow the operator's instructions at all at trial. Its a periferral issue that Z is not charged with and any evidence towards that issue could be deemed more prejudicial than probative. Thus preventing an instruction as above and any chance for the defense to proclaim he followed the law in this context.

Click to expand...

Really? You're suggesting the prosecution will file a motion in limine to preclude the tape of the phone call--or at least that part of the conversation?You have got to be kidding me.

Click to expand...

'dparker713 said:

'Otis said:

Pretty sure that's what the DA is for, and the DA will do a better job of it.

Click to expand...

After what we've seen so far, I wouldn't be so sure of that.

Click to expand...

'Otis said:

'dparker713 said:

'Christo said:

Tim, even if it's the defense's factual position that Zimmerman followed the operator's advice they are still going to argue the legal position that whatever Zimmerman did, he wasn't required to follow that advice.Do you know why? It's because there could be people who--whatever Zimmerman testifies he did--decide that Zimmerman ignored the operator's advice.There will be a statement in the closing similar to this: You heard the tape where the operator suggested that it wasn't necessary for Mr. Zimmerman to follow Mr. Martin. He said "OK." You also heard Mr. Zimmerman testify that he, in fact, stopped following Mr. Martin at that point and returned to his truck. Even if you don't believe Mr. Zimmerman, and for whatever reason think that the operator's advice was actually an instruction and that Mr. Zimmerman did continue to follow Mr. Martin, the judge is going to instruct you that the law did not require Mr. Zimmerman to stop following Mr. Martin. What you would have done, or what you believe Mr. Zimmerman should have done is irrelevant for the purpose of this trial. All that matters is whether Mr. Zimmerman broke the law when he shot Mr. Martin.

Click to expand...

Would make more sense for the prosecution to seek a motion in limine to prevent any mention of the legal duty to follow the operator's instructions at all at trial. Its a periferral issue that Z is not charged with and any evidence towards that issue could be deemed more prejudicial than probative. Thus preventing an instruction as above and any chance for the defense to proclaim he followed the law in this context.

Click to expand...

This seems like an even bigger stretch than Tim's view on it. If I'm the prosecution, I'm not too concerned about the defense somehow using this to its advantage.

Click to expand...

'BustedKnuckles said:

'Carolina Hustler said:

'jon_mx said:

'BustedKnuckles said:

'pittstownkiller said:

'wdcrob said:

'Christo said:

'wdcrob said:

'bigbottom said:

'Christo said:

If the prosecution tries to imply (because they can't come and and say it) Zimmerman was required to follow the operators instruction you better believe I'd counter the argument--it'd be malpractice not to. And I'm having the judge give an instruction to the jury as well. You can't let the other side get away with claiming that your client was required to do something when he wasn't.

Click to expand...

Absolutely. This is a no brainer.

Click to expand...

How would a reasonable person interpret that statement from the police operator?

Click to expand...

It doesn't matter. You are either legally required to do it or your not. And here there's the double whammy. I've seen nothing which requires a person to obey such an "instruction." And as it's been pointed out, the "instruction" was ambiguous at best.The fact that you may have followed the "instruction" has nothing to do with whether the "instruction" imposed a duty on Zimmerman to act in a certain manner.Tim's claim that it goes to Zimmerman's credibility is a smokescreen. What he's really doing is trying to use Zimmerman's failure to follow the "instruction" as a "bad act" that somehow goes to the "depraved mind" element of the murder 2 statute. It doesn't.

Click to expand...

I'm not saying anything about 'duty' or 'bad act.' I'm saying that a reasonable person would not immediately jump out of their car and literally run off into the night after a 'suspicious' person if the police had told him 'we don't need you to do that.' And 'reasonable' matters in this case as I understand it.

Click to expand...

If Zimmerman was on the phone with the same 911 operator but was reporting on a house fire saying that he saw somebody inside and was going in to get them, only to be told "we don't need you to do that", would anybody here really have a problem with his lack of deference to this "order"?

Click to expand...

That could work both ways. If dispatch operators are telling you how to perform CPR over the phone so you can save a life and you ignore them and someone dies you have to live with that .Why bother having a trained operator on the phone in the first place if they are meant to be ignored.The dispatch knew the police were on route so zimm should have listened to the trained proffesional...period.

Click to expand...

Trained professional? Mall cops have more training and more authority than a police dispatchor.

Click to expand...

I'm a trained professional, anyone I give advice to has the option to follow or not.. The difference is whether or not the person has been given legal authority over you. The operator was not a sworn official.

Click to expand...

They are trained to handle crisis situations over the phone. Often times they are the first line of help and what they say can have a huge impact on peoples lives.This case is a clear demonstration of that.

Click to expand...

'timschochet said:

'Christo said:

If you can get just one juror to understand, then you can prevent an erroneous guilty verdict.

Click to expand...

So now you've already decided that if the verdict is guilty, it will be erroneous? And to think some people in here claim that you're above the fray in here, merely dispensing legal knowledge without a prejudice in this case. What a joke.

Click to expand...

'Apple Jack said:

'Carolina Hustler said:

'Apple Jack said:

'Christo said:

'wdcrob said:

'Christo said:

'wdcrob said:

'bigbottom said:

'Christo said:

If the prosecution tries to imply (because they can't come and and say it) Zimmerman was required to follow the operators instruction you better believe I'd counter the argument--it'd be malpractice not to. And I'm having the judge give an instruction to the jury as well. You can't let the other side get away with claiming that your client was required to do something when he wasn't.

Click to expand...

Absolutely. This is a no brainer.

Click to expand...

How would a reasonable person interpret that statement from the police operator?

Click to expand...

It doesn't matter. You are either legally required to do it or your not. And here there's the double whammy. I've seen nothing which requires a person to obey such an "instruction." And as it's been pointed out, the "instruction" was ambiguous at best.The fact that you may have followed the "instruction" has nothing to do with whether the "instruction" imposed a duty on Zimmerman to act in a certain manner.Tim's claim that it goes to Zimmerman's credibility is a smokescreen. What he's really doing is trying to use Zimmerman's failure to follow the "instruction" as a "bad act" that somehow goes to the "depraved mind" element of the murder 2 statute. It doesn't.

Click to expand...

I'm not saying anything about 'duty' or 'bad act.' I'm saying that a reasonable person would not immediately jump out of their car and literally run off into the night after a 'suspicious' person if the police had told him 'we don't need you to do that.' And 'reasonable' matters in this case as I understand it.

Click to expand...

Only to the use of deadly force. This is why a jury instruction is so important.

Click to expand...

Not all jury members care about instructions. Or are even capable of disregarding things they're told to disregard.

Click to expand...

Not all humans are capable of following the rules, so lets not have rules..

Click to expand...

Huh?

Click to expand...

'timschochet said:

'bigbottom said:

'timschochet said:

'Christo said:

If you can get just one juror to understand, then you can prevent an erroneous guilty verdict.

Click to expand...

So now you've already decided that if the verdict is guilty, it will be erroneous? And to think some people in here claim that you're above the fray in here, merely dispensing legal knowledge without a prejudice in this case. What a joke.

Click to expand...

He was talking about the importance of jury instructions to prevent improper factual determinations as a general matter.

Click to expand...

Then he should have said "erroneous guilty or not guilty verdict".

Click to expand...

'BustedKnuckles said:

'jon_mx said:

'BustedKnuckles said:

'jon_mx said:

'timschochet said:

'jon_mx said:

Trained professional? Mall cops have more training and more authority than a police dispatchor.

Click to expand...

Complete and utter bullcrap, and something neither you nor anyone else would ever have written prior to this case.

Click to expand...

Tim, you are seriously off the deep end on many issues on this thread. ETA----i have a half-sister who is a police dispatcher, i would have choked if someone referred to her as a trained professional. She does have a GED, but beyond thatnothing besides a bit of on the job training.

Click to expand...

And Jon_mx , youre acting like a complete tool in almost ALL of your posts.

Click to expand...

Coming from the biggest tool here, I will take that as a compliment. My posts have been far fairer than the crap being posted by the local lynch mob.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

'Christo said:

'timschochet said:

'bigbottom said:

'timschochet said:

'jon_mx said:

911 operators are trained to deal with a variety if emergency situations. Police dispatchers are a big step down in training requirements and responsibilities.

Click to expand...

I have no idea how true this is. But assuming that it is true: are you suggesting that when this police dispatcher said, "We don't need you to do that", this represented an amatuerish response which a trained 911 operator would never have uttered?

Click to expand...

I know you're not asking me, but I would think a trained 911 operator would avoid making ambiguous, wishy-washy statements if the intent was to communicate a directive.

Click to expand...

I really don't regard this statement as wishy washy or ambiguous at all, frankly. From the moment I first read it, I had no doubt whatsoever as to what the dispatcher was saying. I still don't, despite all of the arguments being made here.

Click to expand...

I think this says a lot more about your credibility than Zimmerman's.

Click to expand...

'pantherclub said:

The 911 operator argument can pretty much be ended by this. Its not what you think protocol is, its not what you think how much authority they have. ITs what the jury decides about it.

Click to expand...

'SHIZNITTTT said:

Cliff notes?

Click to expand...

'timschochet said:

'Otis said:

'timschochet said:

'Otis said:

'bigbottom said:

'Christo said:

If the prosecution tries to imply (because they can't come and and say it) Zimmerman was required to follow the operators instruction you better believe I'd counter the argument--it'd be malpractice not to. And I'm having the judge give an instruction to the jury as well. You can't let the other side get away with claiming that your client was required to do something when he wasn't.

Click to expand...

Absolutely. This is a no brainer.

Click to expand...

x100

Click to expand...

100% irrelevant, since the prosecution will never imply that there was a requirement. That's not the point, which Christo keeps missing.

Click to expand...

In 2 sentences or less, what is the point?

Click to expand...

If the jury believes that Zimmerman didn't follow the instruction/suggestion by the 911 dispatcher, I believe they will be less inclined to believe Zimmerman's entire story of self-defense. The issue of whether Zimmerman was actually legally REQUIRED to follow it has nothing to do with this, which is why Christo's comments are irrelevant.

Click to expand...

'timschochet said:

'Christo said:

Tim, even if it's the defense's factual position that Zimmerman followed the operator's advice they are still going to argue the legal position that whatever Zimmerman did, he wasn't required to follow that advice.

Do you know why? It's because there could be people who--whatever Zimmerman testifies he did--decide that Zimmerman ignored the operator's advice.

There will be a statement in the closing similar to this: You heard the tape where the operator suggested that it wasn't necessary for Mr. Zimmerman to follow Mr. Martin. He said "OK." You also heard Mr. Zimmerman testify that he, in fact, stopped following Mr. Martin at that point and returned to his truck. Even if you don't believe Mr. Zimmerman, and for whatever reason think that the operator's advice was actually an instruction and that Mr. Zimmerman did continue to follow Mr. Martin, the judge is going to instruct you that the law did not require Mr. Zimmerman to stop following Mr. Martin. What you would have done, or what you believe Mr. Zimmerman should have done is irrelevant for the purpose of this trial. All that matters is whether Mr. Zimmerman broke the law when he shot Mr. Martin.

Click to expand...

I'm sure you're right. I'm sure they will make that argument. which is very reasonable.However, that is not the two main arguments that you and others have made in this thread regarding this subject matter. The two arguments that you and others keep reiterating are:

1. "We don't need you to do this" is not an instruction.

2. The police dispatcher is not a trained person with authority.

I have said all along that these two arguments will be unconvincing to a jury and the defense will never make them. That's what I've been disputing all along, NOT the issue of whether Zimmerman was required to obey the dispatcher.

Click to expand...

'timschochet said:

From the Wikipedia account:

On March 29, 2012, an eyewitness referred to as a male said that he saw two men on the ground scuffling, then heard the shooting, and saw Zimmerman walk away with no blood on him.[118][119] The witness later appeared on CNN AC360 referred to as a female, giving more details on her account. She pointed out that she heard an argument between a younger and an older voice. The whole time she witnessed the incident the scuffling happened on the grass. She said that the larger man, who walked away after the gunshot, was on top, and that it was too dark to see blood on his face.[120]

I don't recall reading about this witness here (though I might have missed it; it's a pretty big thread!) This witness appears to contradict "John" since she asserts that Zimmerman was on top. Will the prosecution have this witness testify, and will it have any impact?

Click to expand...

'Chaos Commish said:

'Otis said:

Just read these comments, didn't find them particularly compelling. This hearing was a huge win for Zimmerman, regardless of whether Chaos Commish thinks it was mean to express his sorrow to the family even though they didn't want to hear it. The family, with their rush to the USPTO to trademark catch phrases with their son's name while the body is still warm, and their full-on media blitz (how many times have they appeared on Anderson Cooper already?), isn't making the most compelling case in the world for my sympathy anyway.

Click to expand...

Their son was killed and they trademarked two slogans for a charitable foundation in his name. Take issue with the copyright? That's lame. They also moved to stop the use of their sons image as a thug for gun rights advocates. If your daughter was shot and killed by neighborhood watch would you want her image used by those who thought it was a good shoot? People who do not understand the context of Zimmerman's self serving apology think he did a nice thing and came off well. Good for the defense. He lied to the parents' faces, changed his story, answered only those questions that might serve him and did so dishonestly. He didn't state that he was answering Sybrina's rhetorical questions (which have haunted him) from a month ago. He just crafted a paragraph that addressed them making himself look good. Google Sybrina Fulton's questions for George and you'll see why he chose those three questions. The others are a little rougher, like if you could do it again would you still pull the trigger? There's an angry media with a huge following who understand. You haven't been following closely (kudos). Maybe that's more representative, but I don't care. It was a nasty move from my box which is following this too closely. I'm going golfing now. ATC said they didn't want a private apology but a public one. They never asked for a public one unless it was again a rhetorical request from the sentencing hearing of a convicted George Zimmerman.

Click to expand...

'dparker713 said:

'Otis said:

'dparker713 said:

'Christo said:

Tim, even if it's the defense's factual position that Zimmerman followed the operator's advice they are still going to argue the legal position that whatever Zimmerman did, he wasn't required to follow that advice.

Do you know why? It's because there could be people who--whatever Zimmerman testifies he did--decide that Zimmerman ignored the operator's advice.

There will be a statement in the closing similar to this: You heard the tape where the operator suggested that it wasn't necessary for Mr. Zimmerman to follow Mr. Martin. He said "OK." You also heard Mr. Zimmerman testify that he, in fact, stopped following Mr. Martin at that point and returned to his truck. Even if you don't believe Mr. Zimmerman, and for whatever reason think that the operator's advice was actually an instruction and that Mr. Zimmerman did continue to follow Mr. Martin, the judge is going to instruct you that the law did not require Mr. Zimmerman to stop following Mr. Martin. What you would have done, or what you believe Mr. Zimmerman should have done is irrelevant for the purpose of this trial. All that matters is whether Mr. Zimmerman broke the law when he shot Mr. Martin.

Click to expand...

Would make more sense for the prosecution to seek a motion in limine to prevent any mention of the legal duty to follow the operator's instructions at all at trial. Its a periferral issue that Z is not charged with and any evidence towards that issue could be deemed more prejudicial than probative. Thus preventing an instruction as above and any chance for the defense to proclaim he followed the law in this context.

Click to expand...

This seems like an even bigger stretch than Tim's view on it. If I'm the prosecution, I'm not too concerned about the defense somehow using this to its advantage.

Click to expand...

Its a murder case against a high powered defense team. You should be concerned about every aspect of the case.

Click to expand...

'TexanFan02 said:

I see the "Look at me!" batsignal went out and attracted Otis to combat Tim. It's like Godzilla vs Mothra, but less cool.

Click to expand...

'Carolina Hustler said:

'TexanFan02 said:

I see the "Look at me!" batsignal went out and attracted Otis to combat Tim. It's like Godzilla vs Mothra, but less cool.

Click to expand...

And what is your purpose here.. ?

Click to expand...

'Christo said:

'Carolina Hustler said:

'TexanFan02 said:

I see the "Look at me!" batsignal went out and attracted Otis to combat Tim. It's like Godzilla vs Mothra, but less cool.

Click to expand...

And what is your purpose here.. ?

Click to expand...

His sole purpose in life is to increase my post count in this thread. I kind of like that his happiness is dependent upon me.

Click to expand...

'TexanFan02 said:

'Christo said:

'Carolina Hustler said:

'TexanFan02 said:

I see the "Look at me!" batsignal went out and attracted Otis to combat Tim. It's like Godzilla vs Mothra, but less cool.

Click to expand...

And what is your purpose here.. ?

Click to expand...

His sole purpose in life is to increase my post count in this thread. I kind of like that his happiness is dependent upon me.

Click to expand...

Not true. Tim's taken that over now. My work here is done. I still want justice for Trayvon though. If that means aggravating people the likes of you, John mx, Boneyard Dog, Carolina Hustler etc., so be it. Not the posters I would want to be associated with, but everything is about you, so I'm sure you're fine with it.

Click to expand...

'Christo said:

'TexanFan02 said:

'Christo said:

'Carolina Hustler said:

'TexanFan02 said:

I see the "Look at me!" batsignal went out and attracted Otis to combat Tim. It's like Godzilla vs Mothra, but less cool.

Click to expand...

And what is your purpose here.. ?

Click to expand...

His sole purpose in life is to increase my post count in this thread. I kind of like that his happiness is dependent upon me.

Click to expand...

Not true. Tim's taken that over now. My work here is done. I still want justice for Trayvon though. If that means aggravating people the likes of you, John mx, Boneyard Dog, Carolina Hustler etc., so be it. Not the posters I would want to be associated with, but everything is about you, so I'm sure you're fine with it.

Click to expand...

There's another one

Click to expand...

'TexanFan02 said:

'Christo said:

'Carolina Hustler said:

'TexanFan02 said:

I see the "Look at me!" batsignal went out and attracted Otis to combat Tim. It's like Godzilla vs Mothra, but less cool.

Click to expand...

And what is your purpose here.. ?

Click to expand...

His sole purpose in life is to increase my post count in this thread. I kind of like that his happiness is dependent upon me.

Click to expand...

Not true. Tim's taken that over now. My work here is done. I still want justice for Trayvon though. If that means aggravating people the likes of you, John mx, Boneyard Dog, Carolina Hustler etc., so be it. Not the posters I would want to be associated with, but everything is about you, so I'm sure you're fine with it.

Click to expand...

'Christo said:

'Carolina Hustler said:

'TexanFan02 said:

I see the "Look at me!" batsignal went out and attracted Otis to combat Tim. It's like Godzilla vs Mothra, but less cool.

Click to expand...

And what is your purpose here.. ?

Click to expand...

His sole purpose in life is to increase my post count in this thread. I kind of like that his happiness is dependent upon me.

Click to expand...

'Carolina Hustler said:

'Chaos Commish said:

'Otis said:

Just read these comments, didn't find them particularly compelling. This hearing was a huge win for Zimmerman, regardless of whether Chaos Commish thinks it was mean to express his sorrow to the family even though they didn't want to hear it. The family, with their rush to the USPTO to trademark catch phrases with their son's name while the body is still warm, and their full-on media blitz (how many times have they appeared on Anderson Cooper already?), isn't making the most compelling case in the world for my sympathy anyway.

Click to expand...

Their son was killed and they trademarked two slogans for a charitable foundation in his name. Take issue with the copyright? That's lame. They also moved to stop the use of their sons image as a thug for gun rights advocates. If your daughter was shot and killed by neighborhood watch would you want her image used by those who thought it was a good shoot? People who do not understand the context of Zimmerman's self serving apology think he did a nice thing and came off well. Good for the defense. He lied to the parents' faces, changed his story, answered only those questions that might serve him and did so dishonestly. He didn't state that he was answering Sybrina's rhetorical questions (which have haunted him) from a month ago. He just crafted a paragraph that addressed them making himself look good. Google Sybrina Fulton's questions for George and you'll see why he chose those three questions. The others are a little rougher, like if you could do it again would you still pull the trigger? There's an angry media with a huge following who understand. You haven't been following closely (kudos). Maybe that's more representative, but I don't care. It was a nasty move from my box which is following this too closely. I'm going golfing now. ATC said they didn't want a private apology but a public one. They never asked for a public one unless it was again a rhetorical request from the sentencing hearing of a convicted George Zimmerman.

Click to expand...

The Martin family is hurting, I understand, but they've been building a mob in the media for the last 2 months.. If they can continue to spout off publicly, then I see nothing wrong with Zimerman doing damage control.. His life is on the line now. Trasyvon is gone and can't be brought back.. If they're doing everything they can to damage him at this point, it's his responsibility to himself and his family to do damage control.

Click to expand...

'Chaos Commish said:

'Carolina Hustler said:

'Chaos Commish said:

'Otis said:

Just read these comments, didn't find them particularly compelling. This hearing was a huge win for Zimmerman, regardless of whether Chaos Commish thinks it was mean to express his sorrow to the family even though they didn't want to hear it. The family, with their rush to the USPTO to trademark catch phrases with their son's name while the body is still warm, and their full-on media blitz (how many times have they appeared on Anderson Cooper already?), isn't making the most compelling case in the world for my sympathy anyway.

Click to expand...

Their son was killed and they trademarked two slogans for a charitable foundation in his name. Take issue with the copyright? That's lame. They also moved to stop the use of their sons image as a thug for gun rights advocates. If your daughter was shot and killed by neighborhood watch would you want her image used by those who thought it was a good shoot? People who do not understand the context of Zimmerman's self serving apology think he did a nice thing and came off well. Good for the defense. He lied to the parents' faces, changed his story, answered only those questions that might serve him and did so dishonestly. He didn't state that he was answering Sybrina's rhetorical questions (which have haunted him) from a month ago. He just crafted a paragraph that addressed them making himself look good. Google Sybrina Fulton's questions for George and you'll see why he chose those three questions. The others are a little rougher, like if you could do it again would you still pull the trigger? There's an angry media with a huge following who understand. You haven't been following closely (kudos). Maybe that's more representative, but I don't care. It was a nasty move from my box which is following this too closely. I'm going golfing now. ATC said they didn't want a private apology but a public one. They never asked for a public one unless it was again a rhetorical request from the sentencing hearing of a convicted George Zimmerman.

Click to expand...

The Martin family is hurting, I understand, but they've been building a mob in the media for the last 2 months.. If they can continue to spout off publicly, then I see nothing wrong with Zimerman doing damage control.. His life is on the line now. Trasyvon is gone and can't be brought back.. If they're doing everything they can to damage him at this point, it's his responsibility to himself and his family to do damage control.

Click to expand...

Damage control is standing up in front of the mother and father whose son you killed and lying to their faces in front of the nation? Sorry, that stoked the fires he should be trying to put out. His statement went over well with the likes of Otis (those not following very closely) and those who have been supportive of him. But neither of those groups needed damage control. His statement drew outrage (rightfully so) from those who've been protesting. He didn't control damage, he caused more.

Click to expand...

'Carolina Hustler said:

'TexanFan02 said:

'Christo said:

'Carolina Hustler said:

'TexanFan02 said:

I see the "Look at me!" batsignal went out and attracted Otis to combat Tim. It's like Godzilla vs Mothra, but less cool.

Click to expand...

And what is your purpose here.. ?

Click to expand...

His sole purpose in life is to increase my post count in this thread. I kind of like that his happiness is dependent upon me.

Click to expand...

Not true. Tim's taken that over now. My work here is done. I still want justice for Trayvon though. If that means aggravating people the likes of you, John mx, Boneyard Dog, Carolina Hustler etc., so be it. Not the posters I would want to be associated with, but everything is about you, so I'm sure you're fine with it.

Click to expand...

Without knowing the real story, how can you judge the conclusion, what will "Justice for Trayvon" be? Because at this point, he might have already gotten the justice he deserved.. You can't know..

Click to expand...

'Chaos Commish said:

'Carolina Hustler said:

'Chaos Commish said:

'Otis said:

Just read these comments, didn't find them particularly compelling. This hearing was a huge win for Zimmerman, regardless of whether Chaos Commish thinks it was mean to express his sorrow to the family even though they didn't want to hear it. The family, with their rush to the USPTO to trademark catch phrases with their son's name while the body is still warm, and their full-on media blitz (how many times have they appeared on Anderson Cooper already?), isn't making the most compelling case in the world for my sympathy anyway.

Click to expand...

Their son was killed and they trademarked two slogans for a charitable foundation in his name. Take issue with the copyright? That's lame. They also moved to stop the use of their sons image as a thug for gun rights advocates. If your daughter was shot and killed by neighborhood watch would you want her image used by those who thought it was a good shoot? People who do not understand the context of Zimmerman's self serving apology think he did a nice thing and came off well. Good for the defense. He lied to the parents' faces, changed his story, answered only those questions that might serve him and did so dishonestly. He didn't state that he was answering Sybrina's rhetorical questions (which have haunted him) from a month ago. He just crafted a paragraph that addressed them making himself look good. Google Sybrina Fulton's questions for George and you'll see why he chose those three questions. The others are a little rougher, like if you could do it again would you still pull the trigger? There's an angry media with a huge following who understand. You haven't been following closely (kudos). Maybe that's more representative, but I don't care. It was a nasty move from my box which is following this too closely. I'm going golfing now. ATC said they didn't want a private apology but a public one. They never asked for a public one unless it was again a rhetorical request from the sentencing hearing of a convicted George Zimmerman.

Click to expand...

The Martin family is hurting, I understand, but they've been building a mob in the media for the last 2 months.. If they can continue to spout off publicly, then I see nothing wrong with Zimerman doing damage control.. His life is on the line now. Trasyvon is gone and can't be brought back.. If they're doing everything they can to damage him at this point, it's his responsibility to himself and his family to do damage control.

Click to expand...

Damage control is standing up in front of the mother and father whose son you killed and lying to their faces in front of the nation? Sorry, that stoked the fires he should be trying to put out. His statement went over well with the likes of Otis (those not following very closely) and those who have been supportive of him. But neither of those groups needed damage control. His statement drew outrage (rightfully so) from those who've been protesting. He didn't control damage, he caused more.

Click to expand...

'timschochet said:

'Carolina Hustler said:

'TexanFan02 said:

'Christo said:

'Carolina Hustler said:

'TexanFan02 said:

I see the "Look at me!" batsignal went out and attracted Otis to combat Tim. It's like Godzilla vs Mothra, but less cool.

Click to expand...

And what is your purpose here.. ?

Click to expand...

His sole purpose in life is to increase my post count in this thread. I kind of like that his happiness is dependent upon me.

Click to expand...

Not true. Tim's taken that over now. My work here is done. I still want justice for Trayvon though. If that means aggravating people the likes of you, John mx, Boneyard Dog, Carolina Hustler etc., so be it. Not the posters I would want to be associated with, but everything is about you, so I'm sure you're fine with it.

Click to expand...

Without knowing the real story, how can you judge the conclusion, what will "Justice for Trayvon" be? Because at this point, he might have already gotten the justice he deserved.. You can't know..

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

'oneohh said:

'Chaos Commish said:

'Carolina Hustler said:

'Chaos Commish said:

'Otis said:

Just read these comments, didn't find them particularly compelling. This hearing was a huge win for Zimmerman, regardless of whether Chaos Commish thinks it was mean to express his sorrow to the family even though they didn't want to hear it. The family, with their rush to the USPTO to trademark catch phrases with their son's name while the body is still warm, and their full-on media blitz (how many times have they appeared on Anderson Cooper already?), isn't making the most compelling case in the world for my sympathy anyway.

Click to expand...

Their son was killed and they trademarked two slogans for a charitable foundation in his name. Take issue with the copyright? That's lame. They also moved to stop the use of their sons image as a thug for gun rights advocates. If your daughter was shot and killed by neighborhood watch would you want her image used by those who thought it was a good shoot? People who do not understand the context of Zimmerman's self serving apology think he did a nice thing and came off well. Good for the defense. He lied to the parents' faces, changed his story, answered only those questions that might serve him and did so dishonestly. He didn't state that he was answering Sybrina's rhetorical questions (which have haunted him) from a month ago. He just crafted a paragraph that addressed them making himself look good. Google Sybrina Fulton's questions for George and you'll see why he chose those three questions. The others are a little rougher, like if you could do it again would you still pull the trigger? There's an angry media with a huge following who understand. You haven't been following closely (kudos). Maybe that's more representative, but I don't care. It was a nasty move from my box which is following this too closely. I'm going golfing now. ATC said they didn't want a private apology but a public one. They never asked for a public one unless it was again a rhetorical request from the sentencing hearing of a convicted George Zimmerman.

Click to expand...

The Martin family is hurting, I understand, but they've been building a mob in the media for the last 2 months.. If they can continue to spout off publicly, then I see nothing wrong with Zimerman doing damage control.. His life is on the line now. Trasyvon is gone and can't be brought back.. If they're doing everything they can to damage him at this point, it's his responsibility to himself and his family to do damage control.

Click to expand...

Damage control is standing up in front of the mother and father whose son you killed and lying to their faces in front of the nation? Sorry, that stoked the fires he should be trying to put out. His statement went over well with the likes of Otis (those not following very closely) and those who have been supportive of him. But neither of those groups needed damage control. His statement drew outrage (rightfully so) from those who've been protesting. He didn't control damage, he caused more.

Click to expand...

It's nice to see that someone has all the answers.

Click to expand...

'Chaos Commish said:

'Carolina Hustler said:

'Chaos Commish said:

'Otis said:

Just read these comments, didn't find them particularly compelling. This hearing was a huge win for Zimmerman, regardless of whether Chaos Commish thinks it was mean to express his sorrow to the family even though they didn't want to hear it. The family, with their rush to the USPTO to trademark catch phrases with their son's name while the body is still warm, and their full-on media blitz (how many times have they appeared on Anderson Cooper already?), isn't making the most compelling case in the world for my sympathy anyway.

Click to expand...

Their son was killed and they trademarked two slogans for a charitable foundation in his name. Take issue with the copyright? That's lame. They also moved to stop the use of their sons image as a thug for gun rights advocates. If your daughter was shot and killed by neighborhood watch would you want her image used by those who thought it was a good shoot? People who do not understand the context of Zimmerman's self serving apology think he did a nice thing and came off well. Good for the defense. He lied to the parents' faces, changed his story, answered only those questions that might serve him and did so dishonestly. He didn't state that he was answering Sybrina's rhetorical questions (which have haunted him) from a month ago. He just crafted a paragraph that addressed them making himself look good. Google Sybrina Fulton's questions for George and you'll see why he chose those three questions. The others are a little rougher, like if you could do it again would you still pull the trigger? There's an angry media with a huge following who understand. You haven't been following closely (kudos). Maybe that's more representative, but I don't care. It was a nasty move from my box which is following this too closely. I'm going golfing now. ATC said they didn't want a private apology but a public one. They never asked for a public one unless it was again a rhetorical request from the sentencing hearing of a convicted George Zimmerman.

Click to expand...

The Martin family is hurting, I understand, but they've been building a mob in the media for the last 2 months.. If they can continue to spout off publicly, then I see nothing wrong with Zimerman doing damage control.. His life is on the line now. Trasyvon is gone and can't be brought back.. If they're doing everything they can to damage him at this point, it's his responsibility to himself and his family to do damage control.

Click to expand...

Damage control is standing up in front of the mother and father whose son you killed and lying to their faces in front of the nation? Sorry, that stoked the fires he should be trying to put out. His statement went over well with the likes of Otis (those not following very closely) and those who have been supportive of him. But neither of those groups needed damage control. His statement drew outrage (rightfully so) from those who've been protesting. He didn't control damage, he caused more.

Click to expand...

'Christo said:

'Chaos Commish said:

'Carolina Hustler said:

'Chaos Commish said:

'Otis said:

Just read these comments, didn't find them particularly compelling. This hearing was a huge win for Zimmerman, regardless of whether Chaos Commish thinks it was mean to express his sorrow to the family even though they didn't want to hear it. The family, with their rush to the USPTO to trademark catch phrases with their son's name while the body is still warm, and their full-on media blitz (how many times have they appeared on Anderson Cooper already?), isn't making the most compelling case in the world for my sympathy anyway.

Click to expand...

Their son was killed and they trademarked two slogans for a charitable foundation in his name. Take issue with the copyright? That's lame. They also moved to stop the use of their sons image as a thug for gun rights advocates. If your daughter was shot and killed by neighborhood watch would you want her image used by those who thought it was a good shoot? People who do not understand the context of Zimmerman's self serving apology think he did a nice thing and came off well. Good for the defense. He lied to the parents' faces, changed his story, answered only those questions that might serve him and did so dishonestly. He didn't state that he was answering Sybrina's rhetorical questions (which have haunted him) from a month ago. He just crafted a paragraph that addressed them making himself look good. Google Sybrina Fulton's questions for George and you'll see why he chose those three questions. The others are a little rougher, like if you could do it again would you still pull the trigger? There's an angry media with a huge following who understand. You haven't been following closely (kudos). Maybe that's more representative, but I don't care. It was a nasty move from my box which is following this too closely. I'm going golfing now.

ATC said they didn't want a private apology but a public one. They never asked for a public one unless it was again a rhetorical request from the sentencing hearing of a convicted George Zimmerman.

Click to expand...

The Martin family is hurting, I understand, but they've been building a mob in the media for the last 2 months.. If they can continue to spout off publicly, then I see nothing wrong with Zimerman doing damage control.. His life is on the line now. Trasyvon is gone and can't be brought back.. If they're doing everything they can to damage him at this point, it's his responsibility to himself and his family to do damage control.

Click to expand...

Damage control is standing up in front of the mother and father whose son you killed and lying to their faces in front of the nation? Sorry, that stoked the fires he should be trying to put out. His statement went over well with the likes of Otis (those not following very closely) and those who have been supportive of him. But neither of those groups needed damage control. His statement drew outrage (rightfully so) from those who've been protesting. He didn't control damage, he caused more.

Click to expand...

Believe me, he said exactly what he and his attorney rehearsed. It was for the courtroom not the public. Nothing he was going to say short of an admission of guilt was going to make the Martin family or their supporters happy.

Click to expand...

'timschochet said:

'Carolina Hustler said:

'TexanFan02 said:

'Christo said:

'Carolina Hustler said:

'TexanFan02 said:

I see the "Look at me!" batsignal went out and attracted Otis to combat Tim. It's like Godzilla vs Mothra, but less cool.

Click to expand...

And what is your purpose here.. ?

Click to expand...

His sole purpose in life is to increase my post count in this thread. I kind of like that his happiness is dependent upon me.

Click to expand...

Not true. Tim's taken that over now. My work here is done. I still want justice for Trayvon though. If that means aggravating people the likes of you, John mx, Boneyard Dog, Carolina Hustler etc., so be it. Not the posters I would want to be associated with, but everything is about you, so I'm sure you're fine with it.

Click to expand...

Without knowing the real story, how can you judge the conclusion, what will "Justice for Trayvon" be? Because at this point, he might have already gotten the justice he deserved.. You can't know..

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

'identikit said:

'oneohh said:

'Chaos Commish said:

'Carolina Hustler said:

'Chaos Commish said:

'Otis said:

Just read these comments, didn't find them particularly compelling. This hearing was a huge win for Zimmerman, regardless of whether Chaos Commish thinks it was mean to express his sorrow to the family even though they didn't want to hear it. The family, with their rush to the USPTO to trademark catch phrases with their son's name while the body is still warm, and their full-on media blitz (how many times have they appeared on Anderson Cooper already?), isn't making the most compelling case in the world for my sympathy anyway.

Click to expand...

Their son was killed and they trademarked two slogans for a charitable foundation in his name. Take issue with the copyright? That's lame. They also moved to stop the use of their sons image as a thug for gun rights advocates. If your daughter was shot and killed by neighborhood watch would you want her image used by those who thought it was a good shoot? People who do not understand the context of Zimmerman's self serving apology think he did a nice thing and came off well. Good for the defense. He lied to the parents' faces, changed his story, answered only those questions that might serve him and did so dishonestly. He didn't state that he was answering Sybrina's rhetorical questions (which have haunted him) from a month ago. He just crafted a paragraph that addressed them making himself look good. Google Sybrina Fulton's questions for George and you'll see why he chose those three questions. The others are a little rougher, like if you could do it again would you still pull the trigger? There's an angry media with a huge following who understand. You haven't been following closely (kudos). Maybe that's more representative, but I don't care. It was a nasty move from my box which is following this too closely. I'm going golfing now. ATC said they didn't want a private apology but a public one. They never asked for a public one unless it was again a rhetorical request from the sentencing hearing of a convicted George Zimmerman.

Click to expand...

The Martin family is hurting, I understand, but they've been building a mob in the media for the last 2 months.. If they can continue to spout off publicly, then I see nothing wrong with Zimerman doing damage control.. His life is on the line now. Trasyvon is gone and can't be brought back.. If they're doing everything they can to damage him at this point, it's his responsibility to himself and his family to do damage control.

Click to expand...

Damage control is standing up in front of the mother and father whose son you killed and lying to their faces in front of the nation? Sorry, that stoked the fires he should be trying to put out. His statement went over well with the likes of Otis (those not following very closely) and those who have been supportive of him. But neither of those groups needed damage control. His statement drew outrage (rightfully so) from those who've been protesting. He didn't control damage, he caused more.

Click to expand...

It's nice to see that someone has all the answers.

Click to expand...

Yeah, no kidding.

Click to expand...

'Christo said:

'timschochet said:

'Carolina Hustler said:

'TexanFan02 said:

'Christo said:

'Carolina Hustler said:

'TexanFan02 said:

I see the "Look at me!" batsignal went out and attracted Otis to combat Tim. It's like Godzilla vs Mothra, but less cool.

Click to expand...

And what is your purpose here.. ?

Click to expand...

His sole purpose in life is to increase my post count in this thread. I kind of like that his happiness is dependent upon me.

Click to expand...

Not true. Tim's taken that over now. My work here is done. I still want justice for Trayvon though. If that means aggravating people the likes of you, John mx, Boneyard Dog, Carolina Hustler etc., so be it. Not the posters I would want to be associated with, but everything is about you, so I'm sure you're fine with it.

Click to expand...

Without knowing the real story, how can you judge the conclusion, what will "Justice for Trayvon" be? Because at this point, he might have already gotten the justice he deserved.. You can't know..

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

How do you know?

Click to expand...

'Carolina Hustler said:

'timschochet said:

'Carolina Hustler said:

'TexanFan02 said:

'Christo said:

'Carolina Hustler said:

'TexanFan02 said:

I see the "Look at me!" batsignal went out and attracted Otis to combat Tim. It's like Godzilla vs Mothra, but less cool.

Click to expand...

And what is your purpose here.. ?

Click to expand...

His sole purpose in life is to increase my post count in this thread. I kind of like that his happiness is dependent upon me.

Click to expand...

Not true. Tim's taken that over now. My work here is done. I still want justice for Trayvon though. If that means aggravating people the likes of you, John mx, Boneyard Dog, Carolina Hustler etc., so be it. Not the posters I would want to be associated with, but everything is about you, so I'm sure you're fine with it.

Click to expand...

Without knowing the real story, how can you judge the conclusion, what will "Justice for Trayvon" be? Because at this point, he might have already gotten the justice he deserved.. You can't know..

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Attack someone you don't know in the middle of the night, brake their nose, bash their head, they have a gun, you get what you get..

Click to expand...

'timschochet said:

Carolina Hustler, oustside of Christo you have made more posts than anyone in this thread. Yet, IMO, you have contributed absolutely nothing of value. You respond to nearly every post, and you agree with nearly every post which appears to be in Zimmerman's favor, while you disagree with every post that could in any way be critical of Zimmerman. But in your disagreements you offer nothing new, you simply repeat the same arguments over and over which were originated and stated better elsewhere. You have shown no willingness whatsoever to question or consider aspects of this case. You claim you want to see justice served, but for you that means only a complete exoneration of George Zimmerman and nothing less. I regard your postings as pretty worthless as a result.

Click to expand...