Chris "Beanie" Wells & Ryan Williams, RBs, Arizona Cardina (2 Viewers)

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Why he is overvalued

according to seven of our writers (based on an ADP > 250 on Aug 17 --- go here for the complete article)

Will Grant - Ryan Williams was a potential stud running back last season before he was lost for the season before it even began. With 12 months to recover, Williams is going to hit the ground running when training camp begins. Chris Wells is dinged up already, and a hungry Williams is just waiting in the wings to steal touches from him.

Jeff Haseley - I would argue that if Ryan Williams proves he is past his knee injury and can handle the load, he will be the Cardinals starting Running Back this year. Chris Wells is coming off a knee injury of his own and some believe his off season "scope" was something more, possibly microfracture surgery. Williams is a more talented, all-around back, who could easily turn into an every week fantasy starter. Williams potential for greatness would definitely result in lesser production for Wells. I would not be surprised if Wells finishes outside of the Top 30.

Bob Henry - I believe in Wells' talent, but the murky nature of his latest offseason knee surgery causes me concern, especially when it looks as though Ryan Williams will be healthier and ready to take first team snaps before Wells will be ready. Williams is every bit as talented as Wells. If Beanie isn't hitting the ground running at training camp, I think he'll have a hard time performing up to his ADP and Williams could easily become the 1a to Wells' 1b in that scenario.

Marc Levin - The biggest knock on Chris Wells coming out of college was a long injury history and questions about whether he could stand the pounding of the NFL. So far, he has justified those who say he is injury prone. He reminds me a little bit of Cadillac Williams, who, despite loads of talent, could never stay on the field long enough to live up to his fantasy potential. Similarly, Wells' injury risk, combined with the challenge for touches he is sure to face from last year's high draft pick, Ryan Williams, makes him a risky RB2 choice. The WRs and TEs available when Wells is being selected are much safer, and likely more productive, choices.

Jeff Pasquino - Arizona wants to have a good running game, and they had planned on using a committee approach last year with then rookie Ryan Williams from Virginia Tech. Once they lost Williams in the preseason they had to rely on Wells who had 245 rushes, by far the most for the Cardinals. Now Williams is back in the picture and will steal touches and production from Wells, as they originally had planned. Add to this that Wells is not the picture of health with a knee injury of his own and I think the back to own for Arizona this year is Williams, not Wells.

Mark Wimer - Wells has trouble staying healthy, and he faces a strong challenge for playing time/touches from second-year back Ryan Williams. I think a running-back-by-committee situation is the upside for Wells this year, with the strong possibility that he is pushed into a secondary, short-yardage role by Williams.

Jason Wood - I love Chris Wells -- he helped a number of my teams in 2011. But the Cardinals offensive line looks suspect, and Wells is still not back on the field after a January knee operation. He may be taking it easy, but we can't ignore the list of bumps and bruises that make Wells a fixture on the injury report. Add to that the likely return of Ryan Williams into the mix, and this does not look like a situation ripe for a top 20 fantasy season.

'Coeur de Lion said:

Actually Wells played in 15 games, so to reach 280 he'll need to both play 16 games and get more carries per game, despite having more competition in the form of Ryan Williams.

And Lynch was actually pretty far ahead of him because Lynch is actually used in the passing game:

1095 - 10 vs 1416 - 13 is a 50 point difference in standard and 70 in PPR.

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Your input is confusing:http://www.nfl.com/player/beaniewells/79661/gamelogs

He played in 14 games last year. He sat out in weeks 3 and 17. In the 14 games he did play, he received 245 carries.

245 carries divided by 14 games = 17.5 carries / game

17.5 carries / game multiplied by 16 games = 280 carries

So no, he won't need to see more carries a game to reach 280 carries in a season.

'Eminence said:

He just about put up the same statline as Marshawn Lynch.

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Marshawn Lynch - 201115 Games (4.3 YPC)

80.2 Yards per game / .8 Touchdowns per game

1.86 Catches per game / .06 Touchdown per game

Beanie Wells - 2011

14 Games (4.2 YPC)

74.7 Yards per game / .71 Touchdowns per game

.6 Catches per game / 0 Touchdowns per game

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BACK ON TOPIC: Wells is going to see the majority of the Goal Line opportunities:

Beanie Wells, 229 lbs, power back.

Ryan Williams, 207 lbs, finesse back.

Ryan Williams MAY cut into Beanie's carries but as a player who is essentially playing his Rookie season, I wouldn't be afraid of Beanie losing significant touches. If anything, having a healthy Beanie down the stretch will likely increase his YPC and make him more effective.

The bottom line is, it's going to be the Touchdowns Wells scores that make him Fantasy viable. Bench him against the 49ers and enjoy RB2 (borderline RB1) he's going to put up. The important thing is we've seen what he's capable of:

138 Yards / 3 Touchdowns against the Giants.

228 Yards / 1 Touchdown against the Rams.

It's not like we're being bullish about a guy for his 'potential'. We've seen him put up big numbers. He's the kind of guy if the Cards (pun intended) fall right could be in-store for a monster season.

He can easily be a 16+ Touchdown guy. He scored 10 last year and missed two games.

Its surprisingl to me that so many Beanie fans seem to believe that Williams, even if healthy, will not 'significantly' cut into Wells production. I think that is nothing but wishful thinking and sticking your head in the sand. Just losing the third downs Beanie got last year to the only RB who can catch a football would be significant. If Williams is healthy but not out-playing Wells, he will still easily get 25-30% of the carries (plus whatever he takes in receiving from Stephens-Howling) - to try and keep Beanie healthy and to see what he can do. If Williams plays well, his percentage of touches will grow accordingly. We know Wells effectively missed two games last year. Losing 30% of his carries would be like missing 5 games. With a big risk that Williams takes 30%, maybe 40% or even the majority if Wells is hurt or performs worse than Williams ... I just don't see how you can ignore Williams completely and project Beanie as if he will have the same amount of carries per game he did last year, but for 2 more games. If you already own him, I can see supporting him. If you are drafting on that projection ... I think you will regret it.

I can't predict the way carries will break down, but if both are healthy, I think Wells' absolute ceiling is about 210 Carries and around 950 rushing yards. Receiving at two-thirds of last year would be stellar. Predicting always erratic TDs at this point, with such uncertain roles, QBs and carries seems a fool's errand.

'Catbird said:

Its surprisingl to me that so many Beanie fans seem to believe that Williams, even if healthy, will not 'significantly' cut into Wells production. I think that is nothing but wishful thinking and sticking your head in the sand. Just losing the third downs Beanie got last year to the only RB who can catch a football would be significant. If Williams is healthy but not out-playing Wells, he will still easily get 25-30% of the carries (plus whatever he takes in receiving from Stephens-Howling) - to try and keep Beanie healthy and to see what he can do. If Williams plays well, his percentage of touches will grow accordingly. We know Wells effectively missed two games last year. Losing 30% of his carries would be like missing 5 games. With a big risk that Williams takes 30%, maybe 40% or even the majority if Wells is hurt or performs worse than Williams ... I just don't see how you can ignore Williams completely and project Beanie as if he will have the same amount of carries per game he did last year, but for 2 more games. If you already own him, I can see supporting him. If you are drafting on that projection ... I think you will regret it.I can't predict the way carries will break down, but if both are healthy, I think Wells' absolute ceiling is about 210 Carries and around 950 rushing yards. Receiving at two-thirds of last year would be stellar. Predicting always erratic TDs at this point, with such uncertain roles, QBs and carries seems a fool's errand.

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Jesus Christ, you act like this is the only RBBC in the league. If it's 3rd and short, expect the short yardage back to be in there. If it's 3rd and long whoever can keep Kolb on his feet will be in there.I expect an Adrian Peterson / Chester Taylor split this year.

'Catbird said:

Its surprisingl to me that so many Beanie fans seem to believe that Williams, even if healthy, will not 'significantly' cut into Wells production. I think that is nothing but wishful thinking and sticking your head in the sand. Just losing the third downs Beanie got last year to the only RB who can catch a football would be significant. If Williams is healthy but not out-playing Wells, he will still easily get 25-30% of the carries (plus whatever he takes in receiving from Stephens-Howling) - to try and keep Beanie healthy and to see what he can do. If Williams plays well, his percentage of touches will grow accordingly. We know Wells effectively missed two games last year. Losing 30% of his carries would be like missing 5 games. With a big risk that Williams takes 30%, maybe 40% or even the majority if Wells is hurt or performs worse than Williams ... I just don't see how you can ignore Williams completely and project Beanie as if he will have the same amount of carries per game he did last year, but for 2 more games. If you already own him, I can see supporting him. If you are drafting on that projection ... I think you will regret it.I can't predict the way carries will break down, but if both are healthy, I think Wells' absolute ceiling is about 210 Carries and around 950 rushing yards. Receiving at two-thirds of last year would be stellar. Predicting always erratic TDs at this point, with such uncertain roles, QBs and carries seems a fool's errand.

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'Touchdown There said:

'Catbird said:

Its surprisingl to me that so many Beanie fans seem to believe that Williams, even if healthy, will not 'significantly' cut into Wells production. I think that is nothing but wishful thinking and sticking your head in the sand. Just losing the third downs Beanie got last year to the only RB who can catch a football would be significant. If Williams is healthy but not out-playing Wells, he will still easily get 25-30% of the carries (plus whatever he takes in receiving from Stephens-Howling) - to try and keep Beanie healthy and to see what he can do. If Williams plays well, his percentage of touches will grow accordingly. We know Wells effectively missed two games last year. Losing 30% of his carries would be like missing 5 games. With a big risk that Williams takes 30%, maybe 40% or even the majority if Wells is hurt or performs worse than Williams ... I just don't see how you can ignore Williams completely and project Beanie as if he will have the same amount of carries per game he did last year, but for 2 more games. If you already own him, I can see supporting him. If you are drafting on that projection ... I think you will regret it.I can't predict the way carries will break down, but if both are healthy, I think Wells' absolute ceiling is about 210 Carries and around 950 rushing yards. Receiving at two-thirds of last year would be stellar. Predicting always erratic TDs at this point, with such uncertain roles, QBs and carries seems a fool's errand.

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I agree with most of the points made, but don't think Wells' "absolute ceiling" is 210 caries and 950 rushing yards. His ceiling is much higher than that if healthy IMO, though as the post says it's tough to predict how this year will play out.

'Grahamburn said:

'WickedCanRest said:

The knee issue scares me. There is just a little too much ambiguity for me to believe that it was just the minor clean up described. On top of that we are talking about someone whose health has always been an issue. I don't think that he can give his owners a quality 250 carries and more importantly I think his coaching staff knows that.

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Beanie just gave you 245 carries. I don't think 250 is out of the realm of possibility.

The return of Ryan Williams (presumably healthy and ready to go) and the ability of LaRod Stephens Howling as a 3rd down/receiving running back is simply not going to allow Beanie to get that many touches.

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Williams is practically still a rookie, he's coming off a gruesome injury, and he's battling a guy for playing time that just had a real solid season. Beanie will probably be in for just about the same workload. If Williams is truly healthy he'll cut into the touches for LSH more than Wells.

Also, another quick point, Arizona --> NFC West --> San Fran twice. I know that's somewhat offset by two games against St. Louis, but I think we can all be sure that San Fran is going to be a tough run match up this year with a pretty good degree of certainty. When you throw in the fact that Beanie is so wildly inconsistent that you can't rely on him on a week to week basis, you have a running back that I want no part of.

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Didn't Wells play in the NFC West last season and face the 49ers twice? Just bench him in those matchups.

175 Carries, 750 Yards, 10 TDs, 5 Receptions, 50 Yards

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A 65 carry drop seems steep. I do think Williams presence could allow the Cardinals to give Beanie a breather more often, but that breather should result in a better yards per carry for Wells. Beanie is a great RB2 if you fill out the other positions on your roster in early rounds, which I'll be doing this season. How many 6th round RBs can you find with 250 carry and 10 TD potential? The bias against Wells has made him a value for two seasons now.230 carries for 1,012 yards, 20 receptions for 140 yards, and 11 TDs.

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Definitely all fair points. I think I feel like there might be a little more depth at receiver this year and that makes me a little more bearish on Beanie. I'd rather take the "sure things" (understanding a sure thing doesn't exist in this game) early and let a guy like Beanie pass. A lot of this is feel and gut, owning Beanie and his ris doesn't make my gut feel good. Again, all fair and reasonable points by you. Big ups.

3 weeks later. Beanie still on the PUP. News coming out saying he'll likely start practicing next week, and hopes to play in the Cards' preseason game on August 17th. In the meantime:

NFL.com's Bucky Brooks was impressed with Ryan Williams' (knee) post-injury explosiveness after watching him in training camp.Brooks noted Williams' "ability to find seams in the middle of the defense and stick his foot in the ground to explode through holes" as well as a "remarkable stop-and-start quickness." The struggles of Cadillac Williams, Mark Clayton and Nate Allen in returning from patellar tendon surgery have had us concerned about Williams, but all reports on his progress have been overwhelmingly positive since the offseason began. Aug 4

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I've also seen other positive news regarding Williams so far in camp.This confirmed Beanie backer may have to revise his projections if Wells suffers any kind of setback. It's a definite red flag for him to still be two weeks out, especially considering the knee problems he's suffered from in the past.That being said, Beanie's ADP will likely start to fall even farther now.

'Coeur de Lion said:

'Shutout said:

What puzzles me the most is that not only is he overlooked but overlooked because of largely innacurate health/injuries

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Taking the health stuff completely out of the equation, Wells is a guy who has averaged 911 YFS and 6.9 TDs per 16 games played over his three year career despite facing mediocre (THT in 2009 / 10) to zero (2011) competition. He's being drafted at his upside (last year's numbers) Guys like McGahee and Hillis are very safe bets to outproduce him and are available a round or more later, not to mention a slew of players at other positions that offer better value in the late 5th range where Wells is going.

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I think you can use stats and set up the ranges to basically say anything you want and I think that's not really fair if you actually watch closely and follow a team and/or a player and understand what was going on and NOT put everything you don't like into a vaccuum.But just as a matter or "responding with stats", i'll play your little game with you and say that based on what you are calling "meh" performance, I'll say "ok, let's compare him to someone else.

In 2011, Beanie ran 245 times for 1047 yards and 10 TDS.

Another player ran the ball 262 times for 1047 yards and 4 TDS.

Based on that, I guess we would reason that Beanie's YPC was higher and since he more than doubled the TD output, he must be the far superior back.

That "other" player was Chris Johnson; the masses' favorite "elite" son. So, based on a lot of typed words, CJ is the bee's knees to most and superior, but based on ACTUAL PRODUCTION, Beanie is better. Point being: spin it anyway you want it but give me production (because I need the points so my team wins).

Having watched all these games last year and following the team enough to know WHY things were happening the way they are, I feel comfortable enough to say that Beanie is a lot better and can produce far better than what A LOT of people tend to give him credit for. But, as it is in most things FF-Talk related, most people want to spend most of their time tearing down and piling on some people and ignoring applying that same logic to others.

Fantasy football isn't a tax return: You can't carry over or defer a player's points from one season to another. so, I prefer to focus on the complete picture instead of putting guys in vaccuums.

'Shutout said:

In 2011, Beanie ran 245 times for 1047 yards and 10 TDS.

Another player ran the ball 262 times for 1047 yards and 4 TDS.

Based on that, I guess we would reason that Beanie's YPC was higher and since he more than doubled the TD output, he must be the far superior back.

That "other" player was Chris Johnson; the masses' favorite "elite" son. So, based on a lot of typed words, CJ is the bee's knees to most and superior, but based on ACTUAL PRODUCTION, Beanie is better. Point being: spin it anyway you want it but give me production (because I need the points so my team wins).

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this only says Wells outproduced CJ in 2011, doesn't really prove your point that he is better than CJ. i agree with what you are getting at about TD's in your earlier post and i'm also on board with Wells for one more year to see if he really is the real deal, but comparing Wells' best year as a pro, and in fact his only good semi-complete season as a pro, against CJ's worst year by far as a pro is not a good comparison. CJ also had over 1400 yards from scrimmage to Well's 1100 last year, the extra yards (which is closer to +400 than +300) easily makes up for the scores from extra 5-6 TD's in standard scoring leagues.

'Pigskin Fanatic said:

'Shutout said:

In 2011, Beanie ran 245 times for 1047 yards and 10 TDS.

Another player ran the ball 262 times for 1047 yards and 4 TDS.

Based on that, I guess we would reason that Beanie's YPC was higher and since he more than doubled the TD output, he must be the far superior back.

That "other" player was Chris Johnson; the masses' favorite "elite" son. So, based on a lot of typed words, CJ is the bee's knees to most and superior, but based on ACTUAL PRODUCTION, Beanie is better. Point being: spin it anyway you want it but give me production (because I need the points so my team wins).

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this only says Wells outproduced CJ in 2011, doesn't really prove your point that he is better than CJ. i agree with what you are getting at about TD's in your earlier post and i'm also on board with Wells for one more year to see if he really is the real deal, but comparing Wells' best year as a pro, and in fact his only good semi-complete season as a pro, against CJ's worst year by far as a pro is not a good comparison. CJ also had over 1400 yards from scrimmage to Well's 1100 last year, the extra yards (which is closer to +400 than +300) easily makes up for the scores from extra 5-6 TD's in standard scoring leagues.

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My point wasn't to say beanie is better than cj. My point was to say, in response to the person I replied to, that it's fairly easy to isolate one set of information, ignore the complete picture, and build a case for yourself. My overall point in this thread though IS that I think wells is being really overlooked.

point taken and i agree. for now. if he puts up one more year like he did last year and if he doesn't miss more than a game or two due to injury this year--a big if--then i think he'll be back on the radar for people at the level he was three years ago coming into the league.

I think Beanie is playing for somebody else next season. Williams is going to take this job. Beanie is soft by many accounts. Mini-chin out there in Arizona does not strike me as a coddler. Wells' time is already running out.

'Shutout said:

'Pigskin Fanatic said:

'Shutout said:

In 2011, Beanie ran 245 times for 1047 yards and 10 TDS.

Another player ran the ball 262 times for 1047 yards and 4 TDS.

Based on that, I guess we would reason that Beanie's YPC was higher and since he more than doubled the TD output, he must be the far superior back.

That "other" player was Chris Johnson; the masses' favorite "elite" son. So, based on a lot of typed words, CJ is the bee's knees to most and superior, but based on ACTUAL PRODUCTION, Beanie is better. Point being: spin it anyway you want it but give me production (because I need the points so my team wins).

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this only says Wells outproduced CJ in 2011, doesn't really prove your point that he is better than CJ. i agree with what you are getting at about TD's in your earlier post and i'm also on board with Wells for one more year to see if he really is the real deal, but comparing Wells' best year as a pro, and in fact his only good semi-complete season as a pro, against CJ's worst year by far as a pro is not a good comparison. CJ also had over 1400 yards from scrimmage to Well's 1100 last year, the extra yards (which is closer to +400 than +300) easily makes up for the scores from extra 5-6 TD's in standard scoring leagues.

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My point wasn't to say beanie is better than cj. My point was to say, in response to the person I replied to, that it's fairly easy to isolate one set of information, ignore the complete picture, and build a case for yourself. My overall point in this thread though IS that I think wells is being really overlooked.

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I looked at his production over his entire career, while in your example you looked at only last year. Who is using isolated sets of data again? Here are the facts:

For two years Wells was unable to beat out Tim Hightower. Arizona then, despite a ton of needs, invests a high 2nd round pick in another RB. That RB gets hurt which leads to Wells getting a career high in touches. Wells is still mediocre (fantasy-wise) despite no threat to his touches. Other guy is evidently back and possibly healthier than Wells himself currently.

After three years, I'm ready to say "Wells is what he is," that is an above-average power runner who is below average at other aspects of the game, most notably in the passing game. He's a committee guy. Further, the situation is bad; maybe the worst for a power RB in the entire NFL. The Cardinals absolutely suck in the ground game. They don't even try to run the ball (25th, 32nd, 32nd, 32nd, 28th in attempts under Whiz) and average 1425 rushing yards, as a team, over that span. Ryan Williams, even if he isn't back 100%, and even if he totally blows, will still get more than the 43 carries the #2 guy got last year (LaRod Stephens-Howling).

Wells = over-rated.

'Coeur de Lion said:

Wells = over-rated.

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Big time fan of Beanie. He's fun to watch run when he's right. (And unquestionably IMO one of the Top 10 runners in the league when healthy, which is rarely)

Felt this way since May. Just feel there's something significantly wrong with him -- been way too quiet locally about him and his status.

I'm much more concerned about his 2012 status than Ryan Williams.I've downgraded Beanie significantly. (And will probably do even more so soon) Something isn't adding up right now with him.

'D said:

Big time fan of Beanie. He's fun to watch run when he's right. (And unquestionably IMO one of the Top 10 runners in the league when healthy, which is rarely)Felt this way since May. Just feel there's something significantly wrong with him -- been way too quiet locally about him and his status.I'm much more concerned about his 2012 status than Ryan Williams.I've downgraded Beanie significantly. (And will probably do even more so soon) Something isn't adding up right now with him.

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Off PUP and plays next week.

'Coeur de Lion said:

'Shutout said:

'Pigskin Fanatic said:

'Shutout said:

In 2011, Beanie ran 245 times for 1047 yards and 10 TDS.

Another player ran the ball 262 times for 1047 yards and 4 TDS.

Based on that, I guess we would reason that Beanie's YPC was higher and since he more than doubled the TD output, he must be the far superior back.

That "other" player was Chris Johnson; the masses' favorite "elite" son. So, based on a lot of typed words, CJ is the bee's knees to most and superior, but based on ACTUAL PRODUCTION, Beanie is better. Point being: spin it anyway you want it but give me production (because I need the points so my team wins).

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this only says Wells outproduced CJ in 2011, doesn't really prove your point that he is better than CJ. i agree with what you are getting at about TD's in your earlier post and i'm also on board with Wells for one more year to see if he really is the real deal, but comparing Wells' best year as a pro, and in fact his only good semi-complete season as a pro, against CJ's worst year by far as a pro is not a good comparison. CJ also had over 1400 yards from scrimmage to Well's 1100 last year, the extra yards (which is closer to +400 than +300) easily makes up for the scores from extra 5-6 TD's in standard scoring leagues.

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My point wasn't to say beanie is better than cj. My point was to say, in response to the person I replied to, that it's fairly easy to isolate one set of information, ignore the complete picture, and build a case for yourself. My overall point in this thread though IS that I think wells is being really overlooked.

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I looked at his production over his entire career, while in your example you looked at only last year. Who is using isolated sets of data again? Here are the facts:

For two years Wells was unable to beat out Tim Hightower. Arizona then, despite a ton of needs, invests a high 2nd round pick in another RB. That RB gets hurt which leads to Wells getting a career high in touches. Wells is still mediocre (fantasy-wise) despite no threat to his touches. Other guy is evidently back and possibly healthier than Wells himself currently.

After three years, I'm ready to say "Wells is what he is," that is an above-average power runner who is below average at other aspects of the game, most notably in the passing game. He's a committee guy. Further, the situation is bad; maybe the worst for a power RB in the entire NFL. The Cardinals absolutely suck in the ground game. They don't even try to run the ball (25th, 32nd, 32nd, 32nd, 28th in attempts under Whiz) and average 1425 rushing yards, as a team, over that span. Ryan Williams, even if he isn't back 100%, and even if he totally blows, will still get more than the 43 carries the #2 guy got last year (LaRod Stephens-Howling).

Wells = over-rated.

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Like I said in my post, I was using my own selected data to make an example of how pulling some data and not all, could support an argument.Your information took into account some things but not all. So did mine.

Things like this come down to what we feel is more important and what isn't.

For instance, some people might not feel like an entire career should be the comparison and that it should only be last year. You may disagree with this because then your point doesn't look as good. But for every person who shares you point of view, someone sharing mine might say "Well, look at FJAX. If we looked at his career instead of last year, then we would overlook him now wouldn't we". Based on FJAX's current ADP, I'd say more people ARE looking at last year instead of the whole career, wouldn't you?

In the end, people are going to focus on what they want to and some will be right and some will be wrong. My opinion (and opinion only) is that I tend to get these things right more often when I can remove all biases and watch the players play. Based on those two things, I think Wells is UNDER-rated.

Williams looked good last night. Can he be a stud this season?

'gbill2004 said:

Williams looked good last night. Can he be a stud this season?

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I think it is the same as it has been. Beanie should be the primary and williams the secondary. Beanie is liked by his coach and does a lot of the power things they want. Williams looked good last night but we have to keep in mind that he had a significant injury. An injury as we have unfortunately send in Chris child's, can repeat. He looked good last night but it's hard to imagine the team just turning him loose, given that injury. How he looked with five carries might not be how he would look with 15. I think caddy Williams had this type of injury and he always claimed he could do everything but he always slowed significantly when given a moderate workload. So I would temper expectations.

'gbill2004 said:

Williams looked good last night. Can he be a stud this season?

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Highly doubtful that anyone will be a stud there in 2012. It's a bad rushing offense and neither guy is likely to get an overwhelming percentage of the carries.

What can we expect from Williams in the passing game?

'Bigboy10182000 said:

What can we expect from Williams in the passing game?

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4 to 5 per game if he is in the game 65% of the time IMO

'texasbirdfan said:

'Bigboy10182000 said:

What can we expect from Williams in the passing game?

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4 to 5 per game if he is in the game 65% of the time IMO

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If he can do that in a PPR he is GOLD with his current ADP

'texasbirdfan said:

'Bigboy10182000 said:

What can we expect from Williams in the passing game?

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4 to 5 per game if he is in the game 65% of the time IMO

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Yeah, I'll go out on a limb here and say a guy in a RBBC, who is basically a rookie and has zero experience in pass pro, won't be anywhere remotely close to 80 catches.

'Bigboy10182000 said:

'texasbirdfan said:

'Bigboy10182000 said:

What can we expect from Williams in the passing game?

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4 to 5 per game if he is in the game 65% of the time IMO

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If he can do that in a PPR he is GOLD with his current ADP

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You realize that would be production in line with the likes of Foster, right? Sounds a bit much.

'Shutout said:

'Bigboy10182000 said:

'texasbirdfan said:

'Bigboy10182000 said:

What can we expect from Williams in the passing game?

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4 to 5 per game if he is in the game 65% of the time IMO

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If he can do that in a PPR he is GOLD with his current ADP

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You realize that would be production in line with the likes of Foster, right? Sounds a bit much.

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welcome to the new NFL O

'texasbirdfan said:

'Shutout said:

'Bigboy10182000 said:

'texasbirdfan said:

'Bigboy10182000 said:

What can we expect from Williams in the passing game?

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4 to 5 per game if he is in the game 65% of the time IMO

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If he can do that in a PPR he is GOLD with his current ADP

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You realize that would be production in line with the likes of Foster, right? Sounds a bit much.

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welcome to the new NFL O

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Or just really bad predictions.

Obviously 80 is a stretch but I could see 50...

He seems to represent a lot of value the more I look at it, but then again I was really high on him last year. He has the style to compensate for the crap OL and he stands to get a decent share of catches.

'DoubleG said:

'texasbirdfan said:

'Shutout said:

'Bigboy10182000 said:

'texasbirdfan said:

'Bigboy10182000 said:

What can we expect from Williams in the passing game?

Click to expand...

4 to 5 per game if he is in the game 65% of the time IMO

Click to expand...

If he can do that in a PPR he is GOLD with his current ADP

Click to expand...

You realize that would be production in line with the likes of Foster, right? Sounds a bit much.

Click to expand...

welcome to the new NFL O

Click to expand...

Or just really bad predictions.

Click to expand...

No personal offense, but it took years for fantasy freaks to accept that the running RB was not always the right first pick. The NFL is evolving into a throwing to the RB (PPR) instead of 3 yards and a cloud of dust

Williams looked really good this past week for those of you that didn't see the game.

'LHUCKS said:

Williams looked really good this past week for those of you that didn't see the game.

Click to expand...

Is Wells supposed to play this week? He hasn't played yet, right?

'Amused to Death said:

'LHUCKS said:

Williams looked really good this past week for those of you that didn't see the game.

Click to expand...

Is Wells supposed to play this week? He hasn't played yet, right?

Click to expand...

correct

'texasbirdfan said:

'DoubleG said:

'texasbirdfan said:

'Shutout said:

'Bigboy10182000 said:

'texasbirdfan said:

'Bigboy10182000 said:

What can we expect from Williams in the passing game?

Click to expand...

4 to 5 per game if he is in the game 65% of the time IMO

Click to expand...

If he can do that in a PPR he is GOLD with his current ADP

Click to expand...

You realize that would be production in line with the likes of Foster, right? Sounds a bit much.

Click to expand...

welcome to the new NFL O

Click to expand...

Or just really bad predictions.

Click to expand...

No personal offense, but it took years for fantasy freaks to accept that the running RB was not always the right first pick. The NFL is evolving into a throwing to the RB (PPR) instead of 3 yards and a cloud of dust

Click to expand...

No personal offense taken - but you do realize that "4-5 per game" would be 64-80. Look up last years reception leaders for RBs. 64 would have been 3rd - 80 would have been 2nd...ahead of Ray Rice. The NFL is evloving - but a virtual rookie coming off a major injury in a RBBC with another RB who just turned 24 and rushed for 1k last season is hardly going to be in the top 2-3 in receptions by an RB. Especially when you consider that the number of times Howling and Wells were targetted last season was 32...combined. Whiz don't play that.

'Shutout said:

'gbill2004 said:

Williams looked good last night. Can he be a stud this season?

Click to expand...

I think it is the same as it has been. Beanie should be the primary and williams the secondary. Beanie is liked by his coach and does a lot of the power things they want. Williams looked good last night but we have to keep in mind that he had a significant injury. An injury as we have unfortunately send in Chris child's, can repeat. He looked good last night but it's hard to imagine the team just turning him loose, given that injury. How he looked with five carries might not be how he would look with 15. I think caddy Williams had this type of injury and he always claimed he could do everything but he always slowed significantly when given a moderate workload. So I would temper expectations.

Click to expand...

Caddy Williams tore BOTH his patellas, in addition to a broken leg in college and I believe a torn ACL in HS. The guy's legs have been shredded.

'Shutout said:

'gbill2004 said:

Williams looked good last night. Can he be a stud this season?

Click to expand...

I think it is the same as it has been. Beanie should be the primary and williams the secondary. Beanie is liked by his coach and does a lot of the power things they want. Williams looked good last night but we have to keep in mind that he had a significant injury. An injury as we have unfortunately send in Chris child's, can repeat. He looked good last night but it's hard to imagine the team just turning him loose, given that injury. How he looked with five carries might not be how he would look with 15. I think caddy Williams had this type of injury and he always claimed he could do everything but he always slowed significantly when given a moderate workload. So I would temper expectations.

Click to expand...

Beanie's style doesnt seem to be a good fit with the way their OL has been IMOAlso, Williams is coming off of a major knee injury but remember it was roughly a full year ago that this happened. He shoudl be 100% by the time teh season starts with a fair share of carries under his belt.It seems like a vitual lock that he'll out-produce his current ADP by a mile.s

'DoubleG said:

'texasbirdfan said:

'DoubleG said:

'texasbirdfan said:

'Shutout said:

'Bigboy10182000 said:

'texasbirdfan said:

'Bigboy10182000 said:

What can we expect from Williams in the passing game?

Click to expand...

4 to 5 per game if he is in the game 65% of the time IMO

Click to expand...

If he can do that in a PPR he is GOLD with his current ADP

Click to expand...

You realize that would be production in line with the likes of Foster, right? Sounds a bit much.

Click to expand...

welcome to the new NFL O

Click to expand...

Or just really bad predictions.

Click to expand...

No personal offense, but it took years for fantasy freaks to accept that the running RB was not always the right first pick. The NFL is evolving into a throwing to the RB (PPR) instead of 3 yards and a cloud of dust

Click to expand...

No personal offense taken - but you do realize that "4-5 per game" would be 64-80. Look up last years reception leaders for RBs. 64 would have been 3rd - 80 would have been 2nd...ahead of Ray Rice. The NFL is evloving - but a virtual rookie coming off a major injury in a RBBC with another RB who just turned 24 and rushed for 1k last season is hardly going to be in the top 2-3 in receptions by an RB. Especially when you consider that the number of times Howling and Wells were targetted last season was 32...combined. Whiz don't play that.

Click to expand...

You may indeed be right, however let's revisit this by mid-season and see if Arizona has seen what the rest of the league is starting to implement.

'DoubleG said:

'texasbirdfan said:

'DoubleG said:

'texasbirdfan said:

'Shutout said:

'Bigboy10182000 said:

'texasbirdfan said:

'Bigboy10182000 said:

What can we expect from Williams in the passing game?

Click to expand...

4 to 5 per game if he is in the game 65% of the time IMO

Click to expand...

If he can do that in a PPR he is GOLD with his current ADP

Click to expand...

You realize that would be production in line with the likes of Foster, right? Sounds a bit much.

Click to expand...

welcome to the new NFL O

Click to expand...

Or just really bad predictions.

Click to expand...

No personal offense, but it took years for fantasy freaks to accept that the running RB was not always the right first pick. The NFL is evolving into a throwing to the RB (PPR) instead of 3 yards and a cloud of dust

Click to expand...

No personal offense taken - but you do realize that "4-5 per game" would be 64-80. Look up last years reception leaders for RBs. 64 would have been 3rd - 80 would have been 2nd...ahead of Ray Rice. The NFL is evloving - but a virtual rookie coming off a major injury in a RBBC with another RB who just turned 24 and rushed for 1k last season is hardly going to be in the top 2-3 in receptions by an RB. Especially when you consider that the number of times Howling and Wells were targetted last season was 32...combined. Whiz don't play that.

Click to expand...

I'm officially torn. Levi Brown was a MAULING run-blocker, that has never been a complaint of any Cardinals fan (including myself). I am a believer in their defense and feel that they will be able to run the ball over and over again. They don't exactly have a Quarterback they can trust passing the ball 30+ times a game.

Last year, Beanie punched the ball in 10 times in just 14 games.

ALL 10 OF HIS TOUCHDOWNS CAME INSIDE THE CARDINALS OPPONENTS RZ.

He is a 24 year old, 6-2, 229 lb wrecking ball.

Assuming that he remains healthy, he is likely to be the team's goal line back.

There will be carries to go around and since Arizona's only other threat at the Goal Line is Larry Fitzgerald, he will see many looks when the team gets down there.

Don't be mistaken, Wells is no plodder. He ripped off (on 245 carries):

5 20+ Yard attempts.

2 40+ Yard attempts.

For comparison's sake, here are a few other backs statistics with comparable carries:

Shonn Greene (253 Carries)

4 20+ Yard attempts.

0 40+ Yard attempts.

Steven Jackson (260 Carries)

6 20+ Yard attempts.

1 40+ Yard attempts.

Arian Foster (278 Carries)

7 20+ Yard attempts.

2 40+ Yard attempts.

More stats here:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=null&statisticCategory=RUSHING&d-447263-s=RUSHING_20PLUS_YARDS_EACH

-

There's no debating his talent after what he did last year, injured. His situation hasn't changed very much besides the fact that he now has a capable backup and an improved defense.

I'm still bullish on him, although Levi Brown going down is not the best thing in the world. At his current value, you've gotta roster this kid. The team loves Stephens-Howling as the pass-catching back, so I don't think Ryan Williams carves out that niche, "this year".

Looking for, 1,200 / 10TD this season.

These are the opposite of the Kurt Warner lead Cardinals, this team will HAVE to run and rely on their defense. Beanie will pop off a few long runs to put himself in scoring position, as will Larry Fitzgerald.

Williams will be a change of pace, imo.

'Eminence said:

These are the opposite of the Kurt Warner lead Cardinals, this team will HAVE to run and rely on their defense.

Click to expand...

The Cardinals have been remarkably consistent in their lack of rushing attempts under Whisenhunt, both with and without Warner. Anything specific causing you to predict such a massive change in offensive philosophy from a coach heading into his 6th year?

'Coeur de Lion said:

'Eminence said:

These are the opposite of the Kurt Warner lead Cardinals, this team will HAVE to run and rely on their defense.

Click to expand...

The Cardinals have been remarkably consistent in their lack of rushing attempts under Whisenhunt, both with and without Warner. Anything specific causing you to predict such a massive change in offensive philosophy from a coach heading into his 6th year?

Click to expand...

Can't speak for him but I didn't interpret that as if it wil be a massive change. More that they can contnue doing what they have done and it can be viable for fantasy and that he doesn't think Williams will carve out a significant role.

'Shutout said:

'Coeur de Lion said:

'Eminence said:

These are the opposite of the Kurt Warner lead Cardinals, this team will HAVE to run and rely on their defense.

Click to expand...

The Cardinals have been remarkably consistent in their lack of rushing attempts under Whisenhunt, both with and without Warner. Anything specific causing you to predict such a massive change in offensive philosophy from a coach heading into his 6th year?

Click to expand...

Can't speak for him but I didn't interpret that as if it wil be a massive change. More that they can contnue doing what they have done and it can be viable for fantasy and that he doesn't think Williams will carve out a significant role.

Click to expand...

I agree that they'll continue to do what they've done for years; namely not run much or well, and split the carries between a few different guys. The difference last year was that half of the RBBC got hurt in the preseason.

"There's no concern with him at all with his health." - Ken Whisenhunt (August 21st, two days ago.)

"I saw from Beanie this year a toughness and commitment to staying with it no matter what happened," said Whiz. "... I was very impressed with how he fought every week to get back on the field when it would have been easy to say he couldn’t go. I respect him for that." - Ken Whisenhunt (End of last season.)

Wells wanted to continue playing through his knee injury, but Whiz decided it wasn't worth the risk. "I want to make sure people understand that was no reflection on Beanie," said Whisenhunt. "... I know the next time that we get Beanie on the football field, he'll be a heck of a lot more healthy than he was [sunday] and even the last five or six games." - Ken Whisenhunt (Rotoworld, week 17 deactivation.)

People are misunderstanding the extent of his injuries / talent.

'Eminence said:

"There's no concern with him at all with his health." - Ken Whisenhunt (August 21st, two days ago.)

"I saw from Beanie this year a toughness and commitment to staying with it no matter what happened," said Whiz. "... I was very impressed with how he fought every week to get back on the field when it would have been easy to say he couldn’t go. I respect him for that." - Ken Whisenhunt (End of last season.)

Wells wanted to continue playing through his knee injury, but Whiz decided it wasn't worth the risk. "I want to make sure people understand that was no reflection on Beanie," said Whisenhunt. "... I know the next time that we get Beanie on the football field, he'll be a heck of a lot more healthy than he was [sunday] and even the last five or six games." - Ken Whisenhunt (Rotoworld, week 17 deactivation.)

People are misunderstanding the extent of his injuries / talent.

Click to expand...

SO this is why he hasnt played in the Pre-season?

Has anyone's stance changed on these two guys?

'Bigboy10182000 said:

Has anyone's stance changed on these two guys?

Click to expand...

To this point, as a Wells owner, the fact that Williams is even moving as well as he is is a suprise. How well he holds up if given more touches is something to keep an eye on. At this point, he will likely eat into Wells' carries, but I think many are still waiting to see which of the two can handle (and I do think it's a function of "can") a majority of the workload.Wells will be given first opportunity, but if he has problems, Williams' role will certainly increase. Honestly though, until we see what the actual breakdown is during real games that count, we have no idea how either will respond (or how the coaches see them responding) to the rigors of an NFL game - and season.It's difficult enough to predict (guess?) how one player will come back from injury. We're all trying to figure out how two are going to do it - and one who is a virtual rookie who has no NFL track record from which to draw conclusions. At this point, we're all just guessing and some likely "hoping" that their guy will emerge as the lead back. IMHO, Wells will be given the "right to fail" first, given the fact that he is the "vet" and performed well last year.

While I like Williams, I noticed during my draft that Yahoo had him ranked ahead of Beanie. Pretty absurd if you ask me.

pretty murky situationm, both have looked good, both are talented but the blocking and overall offensive effectiveness has been putrid.

If I had to guess neither will be particularly valuable as long as both are healthy.

I like Williams in dynasties.

I think they are both solid plays for this season. i have no idea if either is overvalued and I have no opinion as to if either will be a 1k/10TD rusher. I DO know that Arizona is going to need to run the ball a ton and pass to the RB a ton if they expect to move the ball. Even ramming the RBs in to the backs of the linemen 30 times a game will help - the line is so bad that if there is no threat of a run both Kolb and Skelton will be in ICU before Halloween.

'DoubleG said:

'Bigboy10182000 said:

Has anyone's stance changed on these two guys?

Click to expand...

To this point, as a Wells owner, the fact that Williams is even moving as well as he is is a suprise. How well he holds up if given more touches is something to keep an eye on. At this point, he will likely eat into Wells' carries, but I think many are still waiting to see which of the two can handle (and I do think it's a function of "can") a majority of the workload.Wells will be given first opportunity, but if he has problems, Williams' role will certainly increase. Honestly though, until we see what the actual breakdown is during real games that count, we have no idea how either will respond (or how the coaches see them responding) to the rigors of an NFL game - and season.It's difficult enough to predict (guess?) how one player will come back from injury. We're all trying to figure out how two are going to do it - and one who is a virtual rookie who has no NFL track record from which to draw conclusions. At this point, we're all just guessing and some likely "hoping" that their guy will emerge as the lead back. IMHO, Wells will be given the "right to fail" first, given the fact that he is the "vet" and performed well last year.

Click to expand...

I still doubt that either guy has a huge advantage workload-wise when the dust settles. Seems logical to split things down the middle to avoid overworking either guy, considering the track record of injury here with both players.