timschochet
Footballguy
There has never been a group of immigrants who came in large numbers to this country, with three possible exceptions, who did not immediately end up in terrible terrible slums. Again I refer you to Jacob Riis.All the "I"s in you post just proved my point. I'm focusing about the immigrants and the US, and how you fail to recognize themI disagree with you profoundly. And there is nothing self-serving about my POV. In fact, ever since I have held this POV (roughly for 20 years, since my mid 20s,) it has served me ill, since nearly everyone I know disagrees with me rather strongly, including my closest friends, my family members, and even my wife. Nonetheless, I believe what I believe.The US has been doing a good job with immigration. I know a few Irish and Italian immigrants who received Green Cards (do you remember Green Cards? - Roberto Plant), the Irish through an act in the either the late 1980's or 1990's (dunno exactly when). Immigrants aren't being shut out. Where the US has failed on immigration lies within the lack of enforcement due to the supply and demand of labor. Even then, it's not like those who are taking advantage of the US turning a blind eye to it are doing immigrants favors. You still have sweatshops, poor living conditions, exploitation, crime, and a living standard well below US norm.That's your interpretation. Several years ago, Tibor Machan of Reason magazine wrote a very long and conclusive article about how the Founding Fathers were, in fact, very much in support of mass immigration- he was arguing at the time for open borders. Wish I could find that article now and link it- it was from the 1980s, but it had a profound effect on me.The Founders welcomed immigration from the parts of the world from which the immigrants would qualify for citizenship in the United States. The Founders tolerated immigration from other areas because they did not anticipate nor did they receive many immigrants from other parts of the world. If the Founders "welcomed" that immigration, then they would have provided a means by which those immigrants could become citizens.In fact, the Founders welcomed immigration, particularly Thomas Jefferson.
Even regarding immigrants from Europe, Thomas Jefferson was wary of the negative effects of mass immigration.
So, being that: (1) the Founders didn't anticipate mass world immigration due to transportation limits of the time; (2) the Founders limited which immigrants could become citizens thus expressing their intent of which immigrants they desired; and (3) some Founders, such as Jefferson, expressed reservation regarding unfettered mass immigration -- then it's safe to assume that the Founders would not support the open door mass immigration that you're suggesting they would.
This is one of those issues in which people on different sides are always going to dispute what the Founders were thinking (like secularism vs. religion, to cite a more common example.) But I very FIRMLY believe that the whole point of the USA, the one aspect which makes us an exceptional nation, is our acceptance of immigration.
Your crusade is self serving, and naive. It's more of a "LOOK AT MY SO CALLED LIBERTARIAN POV" rather than actually focusing at the realities of the immigrants themselves. The US is already burdened policing the globe. It will be even under more burden with they playing "Promised Land". The US government can't even live up to promises to it's natural citizens. They already have enough immigrants here anyway. No need to import any more. The only real need for them is to fill jobs, and those jobs should be filled by Americans. But guess what? Immigration screwed that one up too.
BTW, two of the Irish I know who got the Green Cards:
One got addicted to crack cocaine and meth trolling the Tenderloin in SF, and moved back to Ireland.
The other got addicted to same drugs, but stayed in SF, while living off of SSI and other government stipends because he was diagnosed as bi-polar or clinically insane. He even got free housing.
Kind of a waste of Green Cards.
Immigration is, has always been, and will ever be definitional for the United States. Of course all the issues you raise can be a concern, but I am convinced that we would be far worse as a society if we came to reject immigration, including illegal immigration.
There is no "can be a concern". My nice tony little town that has it's own Rodeo Blvd shopping corridor. But if I drive further south, I can find immigrants living in squalid conditions. One make shift trailer park that "housed" immigrants was something right out of the Third World. A family member of mine volunteered to help distribute food and clothing to them, and was shocked and depressed that people could live like that right here in this wealthy area of California. The park had no safe running water, no sewage system, no safe power solutions, and it took months for the local authorities to shut it down and find those immigrant families (with children no less) housing. It's still not completed, and it's been two years since they started. That park was housing them for years prior to it. The slumlord who took their money thought he was doing those people a favor too.
All that costs money. Those immigrants, despite living in the US didn't have enough to move elsewhere. So the money comes from somewhere else. Not from the slumlord.
You can find this example anywhere, in the Chinatown district in SF, in Los Angeles, San Diego, pretty much anywhere where there is a concentration of immigrants. You would think that after all these years of immigration that this would never happen, but it always will. Because it's the effect of importing poverty. It takes generations for those with no education and skills to overcome it. A lot of them do, but a lot of them don't. Some find it easier to make the quick buck via crime. Some think that the lawlessness of the country they come from exists here. All of the sudden they find out "Hey, we can't kidnap this girls Uncle via gunpoint to find out where she is, because now we are in jail" (true story that happened to a son of a Guatemalan immigrant I know, which his buddy that got him into this mess still thinks he did nothing wrong, and that Uncle was Guatemalan).
Let's not forget the issue of immigrants imported into slave trades that exist in the US too. Maybe next time you go for a Happy Ending, you can wonder when her Happy Ending, well, will happen.
If we can't fix the problems immigrants have in the US today, then we can't import more of those problems. Nevermind that the US should focus more on it's natural citizens. Every natural American should be granted opportunity first, and second, and if they don't take it, open a guest worker registration program that has rigid policy and regulation, so that those who apply won't end up in squalid conditions with no proper food, shelter, and health care. Three things that a lot of natural American citizens still don't have.
(The three possible exceptions are the Cubans who came to Miami in the early 1960s, the Vietnamese who came to Westminster/Garden Grove in 1975, and the Iranians who came to southern California after 1979 But there were special circumstances surrounding all of these groups- they were upper/middle class or richer and they came with money.)
Someday your hatred and ignorance will vanish, and love and acceptance will take their place. Hope, for your sake, it happens soon.