You did that myopic thing again with " irrelevant".
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
What to expect from Vereen when he returns (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter jbird
- Start date
ryno1980
Footballguy
I think Brady will have a huge second half and u know the pats will run up the score if given the chance. I've traded for Vereen a while ago and gronk. Vereens boom or bust potential is a worry though.
No injury I can recall. Lack of touches and a minimal role in the game plan many weeks.
So you as a worried Ridley owner are trying to tell me that his most recent games are less relevant than his early career games?
Lol patterns of usage tend to change very fast in the nfl. Keep holding on to those early career patterns if it helps your Vereen induced anxiety.
Banger
Footballguy
That pattern included major cogs like Welker and Hernandez who are no longer there. It's a new offense with totally different, largely underachieving wrs. Moreno established a pattern, Matthews established a pattern, over longer time periods....how's that working out? The past doesn't predict the future.
Last edited by a moderator:
Buffaloes
Footballguy
how many touches are we forecasting for Woodhead in the New England offence going forward?
turkishkamel
Footballguy
Exactly. I think this is the biggest subtraction from last years team, as far as Vereen is concerned.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
In his one game this year, Vereen had 7 catches.
All season to this point, Ridley has 9 catches and Bolden has 17. Bolden figures to be the odd man out here. No back on the roster can do what Vereen does. And in week one, Amendola played most of the game. His presence helps; it doesn't hurt. He and Gronk are the guys who create space for Vereen to operate in the flat and up the sideline.
I expect you'll see 3 RBs suited up each week. Ridley for the bulk of the carries, Blount to be the late-game hammer when they have a lead, and maybe share the goal-line role with Ridley, and Vereen will clean up everything else. All 3rd & long duty, most of the passes, and a handful of rushes. NE runs so many plays, I think there will be plenty of production to go around for everyone most weeks.
All season to this point, Ridley has 9 catches and Bolden has 17. Bolden figures to be the odd man out here. No back on the roster can do what Vereen does. And in week one, Amendola played most of the game. His presence helps; it doesn't hurt. He and Gronk are the guys who create space for Vereen to operate in the flat and up the sideline.
I expect you'll see 3 RBs suited up each week. Ridley for the bulk of the carries, Blount to be the late-game hammer when they have a lead, and maybe share the goal-line role with Ridley, and Vereen will clean up everything else. All 3rd & long duty, most of the passes, and a handful of rushes. NE runs so many plays, I think there will be plenty of production to go around for everyone most weeks.
ryno1980
Footballguy
turkishkamel
Footballguy
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
That said, I think I'll give him one week on my bench to get his legs under him.
Oh, look... it just so happens that New England is playing in Carolina this week!
No thanks.
After that, the schedule is pretty damn tasty the remainder of the season.
Oh, look... it just so happens that New England is playing in Carolina this week!
No thanks.After that, the schedule is pretty damn tasty the remainder of the season.
I get your point, but the reason that Vereen had "buzz" around him this pre-season was his CHANGING role in NE's offense. It doesn't matter that the coaches are the same, and that the QB is the same. What matters is that reports were that Vereen's ROLE was changing.
Prior to a few weeks ago, TY Hilton was a high-end WR3 going forward. Then his ROLE changed, due to the Wayne injury, and now he is a low-end WR1 going forward. When a player's ROLE changes, looking at his past performance, when he was filling a different ROLE, is pointless.
Sorry for the redundant post, but please explain Hilton's recent 2-week improved performance.
What about Moreno? His coaching staff and offensive system are exactly the same as last year, but he is RB6, where as last year he was RB 34 (I think). Plus, he had a good 4-game stretch at the end of last year, so the comparison fits there as well. Maybe it's because his ROLE changed in that same offense, with the same coaching staff?
The Giants activated Brown last Thursday, but I'm not sure if that was to meet a deadline or not. Vereen is practicing, so if he doesn't HAVE to be activated until they declare game-day actives, with BB, I would expect that is when we'll find out.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I expect him to get worked in slowly, or immediately.
I think he's got the potential for 30 point PPR weeks, and 0 point PPR weeks. To be honest I had him and traded him away because of the uncertainty that is anything not name Gronk in that offense. I would love to hold Vereen as a wildcard but just feel he might be one of those guys who puts up a 3 against the Browns or Dolphins in the playoffs. Not necessarily because New England gets shut down, but because maybe Dobson or Amendola has a huge outing.
He's a wildcard for me. I'm always going to be doubting sticking him in.
I think he's got the potential for 30 point PPR weeks, and 0 point PPR weeks. To be honest I had him and traded him away because of the uncertainty that is anything not name Gronk in that offense. I would love to hold Vereen as a wildcard but just feel he might be one of those guys who puts up a 3 against the Browns or Dolphins in the playoffs. Not necessarily because New England gets shut down, but because maybe Dobson or Amendola has a huge outing.
He's a wildcard for me. I'm always going to be doubting sticking him in.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
unckeyherb
Footballguy
with stacy on a bye and SJAX looking like stir fried ####, I will be rolling him out as my RB2 with Lacy..
What part of "more likely" got you tripped up?Bayhawks said:
You just provided two exceptions to the rule... and one of those (Hilton) hardly even counts, due to a major loss at the same position. Nice work.
Maybe Vereen will be another Moreno. Or maybe he'll be who he's always been, like 50 other guys in the same system with the same coaches.
You do understand that "history" refers to recent events, as well, right?
In which case, recent "history" says the former is more likely. Otherwise, we'd have to expect Julius Thomas to be un-startable, because "history" says he won't have any catches, little yards, and no TDs (until his role changed this season). We also shouldn't even consider starting Antonio Brown, because his "history" suggests he won't be anything more than a borderline WR2 (at least, until his role changed this season).
ETA-that's 2 more examples, since you seem to be counting.
You keep harping on "history," but the fact is that Vereen's "history" is meaningless, because all reports over the off-season were that his role was going to change. Based on the 1st game, that appeared to be true. Looking at what he did in the past, when he was filling a different role, is ridiculous.
Last edited by a moderator:
You don't consider Danny Woodhead and Aaron Hernandez "major" losses? 91 catches, 900 yards, and 8 TDs isn't a major loss?
According to all reports, Vereen was going to play a "joker" role where he would take over much of those 2 player's roles. Even if you ignore the possibility of getting some of Hernandez's production, if he ONLY replaced Woodhead, you are looking at around 800 yards and 8 TDs possible.
But you think, for some reason, we should ignore what happened in the off-season, pretend that nothing has changed, and that Vereen is still going to be the 3rd/4th RB on the roster, rather than stepping up into the #2RB/3rd down RB role, AND get some of the production that was lost when Hernandez got cut?
Nice analysis of the situation.
ryno1980
Footballguy
Davearm is clueless. Don't bother. Vereen will also be a big factor in no huddle situation. I think his floor in ppr isn't bad in the rbbc world we live in. Rb2 with big rb1 upside games like the week 1 performance a real possibility
Clueless because I'm not going head over heels over Vereen based on a bunch of offseason reports and one game in which Ridley fumbled twice and everyone else was either out (Gronk) or playing their first NFL game (Dobson & Thompkins)? Alrighty then.
Look Vereen *COULD* blow up. He *COULD* be a big factor. Those are all very plausible outcomes. The point is, it's still an open question, not a foregone conclusion. Most here see it as a foregone conclusion, which is ridiculous.
Look Vereen *COULD* blow up. He *COULD* be a big factor. Those are all very plausible outcomes. The point is, it's still an open question, not a foregone conclusion. Most here see it as a foregone conclusion, which is ridiculous.
Gopher State
Footballguy
You have to love fresh leg RB'S this late in the season, I see big things for V man going forward
Pietaster2
Footballguy
I'm gonna be that guy who talks about his own fantasy team for a second. I have to confess something to you all: I passed on Andre Brown for Vereen in standard, and boy do I feel stupid. The remorse hurts.
To keep this post in line with Shark Pool rules, I'm expecting Ellington numbers out of Vereen for the rest of the year, as they have similar roles. I'll be pleasantly surprised if Vereen's week one 2013 usage and numbers are what we see from here on out, but I won't hold my breath.
To keep this post in line with Shark Pool rules, I'm expecting Ellington numbers out of Vereen for the rest of the year, as they have similar roles. I'll be pleasantly surprised if Vereen's week one 2013 usage and numbers are what we see from here on out, but I won't hold my breath.
ryno1980
Footballguy
Similar roles but one is in a New England offense about to take off and ones in a Carson Palmer offense. Big difference.
ryno1980
Footballguy
Probably should factor in that Brady knows how to use a guy like Vereen. No one here is talking standard league. He's obviously a ppr play. The better comparison could be what woodhead is doing in San Diego.
Last edited by a moderator:
It is reasonable, IF you take into account the differences in the offenses they are a part of. NE's offense is going to generate longer drives, more points, more yards; therefore Vereen will have more opportunities than Ellington will.
Also, you also must consider that Ellington wasn't in his current role until about a month ago (situation changed-Mendenhall hurt/ineffective so his role changed; sound familiar?) In the last 5 weeks, he's averaged about 12 touches/game.
I'd expect Vereen to average closer to 15 touches/game. Somewhere in the 75 yard range (some weeks more, some weeks less), with the chance for a TD every week. (not scoring a TD/week, but having the chance to get one)
Not necessarily; I expect him to average 10 FF ppg (standard scoring). That would make him a weak RB2/solid RB3.
All of these things were true back before the season began, when Vereen was going off the board as RB32.
72 (-3) Chris Ivory NYJ/10 RB 29
74 (+4) DeAngelo Williams CAR/4 RB 30
75 (-2) Rashard Mendenhall ARI/9 RB 31
77 (-2) Shane Vereen NE/10 RB 32
86 (-1) BenJarvus Green-Ellis CIN/12 RB 33
88 (+5) Mark Ingram NO/7 RB 34
90 (+19) LeVeon Bell PIT/5 RB 35
Last edited by a moderator:
What does where Vereen was drafted have to do with this?All of these things were true back before the season began, when Vereen was going off the board as RB32.
72 (-3) Chris Ivory NYJ/10 RB 29
74 (+4) DeAngelo Williams CAR/4 RB 30
75 (-2) Rashard Mendenhall ARI/9 RB 31
77 (-2) Shane Vereen NE/10 RB 32
86 (-1) BenJarvus Green-Ellis CIN/12 RB 33
88 (+5) Mark Ingram NO/7 RB 34
90 (+19) LeVeon Bell PIT/5 RB 35
You said Hilton putting up better stats when his role changed "hardly counts" because of a major change at the same position. I pointed out that Woodhead and Hernandez constituted major changes at his position (since it was reported in the offseason, and evidenced in game 1, that Vereen would run the routes they had run), therefore Hilton putting up better stats WHEN HIS SITUATION CHANGED most definitely counts when we look at what we can expect/project Vereen to do since his situation changed since last year.
Again, you want to ignore all the off-season news, change in players, Vereen's week 1 game IN HIS NEW ROLE, and use his stats when he was the RB3, at best. That's fine for you, but it isn't a very smart way of evaluating FF players/situations.
LawFitz
Footballguy
A few differences:
1. Though easily dismissed as an insufficient sample size, we got to see what he could do in the joker role week 1 and it looked a lot better than RB32.
2. How many of those 31 RBs selected ahead of him are now proven to be duds or hurt? I don't know the answer, but I think it's a lot less than the number of RBs taken after that have jumped up the ranks.
3. He has fresh legs and will be playing against tired and beaten up D's.
ryno1980
Footballguy
Who cares when anyone was drafted right now, over halfway into the season? What point is that driving home? That the masses were potentially overlooking him then as well?
Vereen was in many many sleeper lists, meaning he could be drafted at great value because ppl would overlook him as you seem to be.
Do you not see him being a major part of this offense? If so, due to all the other pro bowl weapons on his squad that will make him an afterthought? Your only argument is that Vereen has never had a consistent impact so there's no way he will in the future. No one is buyin that so stop trying to sell it.
Vereen was in many many sleeper lists, meaning he could be drafted at great value because ppl would overlook him as you seem to be.
Do you not see him being a major part of this offense? If so, due to all the other pro bowl weapons on his squad that will make him an afterthought? Your only argument is that Vereen has never had a consistent impact so there's no way he will in the future. No one is buyin that so stop trying to sell it.
Last edited by a moderator:
I suspect 1. is skewed by Ridley's fumbles and everyone else's lack of experience. The experience thing has definitely been mitigated in the 9 weeks since then, and it appears the Ridley fumbling may have been too.
As for 2., I just had a look at the Rest-Of-Season rankings that fantasypros tabulates every week. Vereen is sitting at RB33 as of now. Meanwhile last week Dodds had him at RB28 in the Top 200. Neither is a direct comparison to preseason ADP, but they're decent barometers. http://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/rankings/ros-rb.php
The fresh legs certainly should help him.
EDIT: FWIW, Dodds had Vereen ahead of Sproles last week.
Last edited by a moderator:
Who cares? His ADP has nothing to do with his performance from this point forward. Are you purposefully trying to deflect the discussion because you have no leg to stand on?
Guess what: Peyton Manning's ADP was QB3, Knowshown Moreno's ADP was RB38, but both of them are doing better than QB3 and RB38. Where you were drafted does not guarantee or limit your FF productivity.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
He's right. You are just blind to his logic. If you are going solely off his first week then you must have him ranked at RB1 going forward. In my PPR only Calvin, Brees, and Peyton have more PPG. Good luck with that.
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
Anyone here own both Vereen and Ridley? What will you be doing with these two for the rest of the season?
Houston turmOiler
Footballguy
If anything use him Week 13 against Houston. Wade Phillips routinely gets caught with his LBs in coverage. Vereen burned us last year repeatedly. A couple weeks ago it was funny watching Joe Mays try to keep up with Jamaal Charles down the sideline but Alex Smith made a terrible throw. Mays or Darryl Sharpton are no match for his speed...neither are Shiloh Keo or Swearinger, although theyll probably be occupied by Gronk anyway. Vereen should be a prime matchup problem in that game IMO.
