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Actually, he broke out last year. I got him in the 9th last year and he was a nice piece on my championship team. This year he won't make it to the 6th round in most 12 team leagues. That said, I don't know if he has the same potential as Wayne. Harrison is getting older and CJ is still in his prime. It will be easier for Wayne to steal from Harrison's piece of the pie than for Housh to get more of CJ's #'s. I see Housh doing pretty much the same as last year and Wayne's numbers should go up this year without Edge. They aren't quite in the same spot, but I do love Houshasmla;lfknaefieawjspoifue.
That, too. People have suggested he might push TJ for playing time at the #2 (which I doubt). Theismann noted on Monday night in the preseason game against the Pack that the Bengals are very deep at WR. I think Palmer will hit the guy who is open. Some games Housh will be stellar, others he will be average. Wayne has a decent shot at matching Harrison's numbers this year which will be well above what Housh could do.EDIT: a typo
BLASPHEMER!!!! CJ is the man in all areas of football. He's fast, quick, has great hands, talks some serious trash and has the best end zone celebrations in the league.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but other than the fact you drafted him in the 5th this year, what makes you think he is more talented than Chad Johnson. Is there something you see that the coaches missed when both played at Oregon State? Did you know they played at the same college? Chad actually played at Santa Monica CC with Steve Smith I might add before he transferred to Oregon State. Or how bout in Cinci...Chad was a 1st round selection, TJ a 7th and might have gone undrafted if CJ didn't tell the Bengals to grab the guy. Chad Johnson has way more talent, run way better routes, and is an overall better WR and it's not fantasy related either.
How many points do you get in your league for the "good dances"?
I dont have Housh on any of my teams so far this year. I might have, but one of my drafts happened to coincide with the last preseason game so Housh went a lot sooner than he would have. On the other hand i had Chad Johnson on all my teams his breakout year 2002 and paid nothing for him. I have a lot of love for CJ and i have watched them both very closely.
Johnson was certainly an earlier bloomer. These guys are the same age, same size, similar speed, and I have to disagree with their route running- Housh has developed into an oustanding route runner in the last 2 years and is the go-to guy on 3rd downs. In 04 Housh was targetted on 3rd and long 31 times and converted 17CJ was targetted 32 times and converted 10.In 05 Housh was targetted 32 times and converted 18CJ was targetted only 17 and converted 8.Housh was targetted in 05 in the red zone 24 times for 13 rec, and 5 tdsJohnson was targetted 14 times for 9 rec, and 2tds.And lest we forget, Housh missed 2 games and was limited in 2 others.Johnson certainly draws the tougher coverage, and i understand that is a factor (that is going to start changing if the Green Bay game was an indication). But without question, when the Bengals need a 1st down or a red zone strike, they are turning to Houshmanzadeh more and more. Johnson certainly stretches the field as well as any reciever in the league, but TJ brings a lot to the table, and my argument is that he is getting better and better. Their numbers arent too far off already when extended to a full season, it wouldnt take a whole lot for Housh to get even, and if his trajectory continues in this fashion they will have to.
Sense of humor down?The Bad CEO said:This got old quicker thanTJ WhosYourMama......*Championship*
I normally am not a number cruncher and go by what i see and that's what i've been seeing with Housh as well. He's really starting to get it and Carson is looking to him more and more, espically in the red zone. DaTruth
That's a well thought out stat backed intellectually appealing arguement. That's good, it's wrong but it's a good arguement nonetheless.Chad Johnson is a premier WR, you really think TJ would be a WR1 on another team?mbuehner said:
I agree that Chad Johnson is definately the better receiver of the two, but in the Bengals offense, i see him putting up similar numbers to Chad Johnson. I don't think that TJ could be a #1 on anohter team, just like i don't think Reggie Wayne can be a #1 on anohter team. DaTruth
Well, there are two sides to that coin. Would CJ be a top 5 WR without Housh moving the chains for him?And I really do believe that at this point in his career TJ could go and be a successful #1 for somebody. Not necesarilly a top tier WR, but definately as successful as an Andre Johnson or Lee Evans. If you look at his stats 'pound for pound', ie how many targets he recieves and what he produces with them, he matches up with anybody in the league. You give the guy 150 targets at this point in his career, he wont make a fool of you.
Don't disagree with MoP, if you simply disagree and tell him he's nuts he'll call you a troll and be highly insulted that you bash his wannabe staff "expert" analysis without basis. On the other hand, if you provide all kinds of stats and a long post like his usual epics, he'll tell you you're a good poster who's lucky enough to be in a discussion with him, but still just wrong. And yes, he is always right, so we're lucky to have him here and self-bumping all his thoughts for everyone to see and adore.Oh, and Housh is pretty good. Mark him down for 85, 1100, 7. Perry's injury could arguably help his numbers too.
Perhaps a few, the Niners come to mind immediately.
Great point and yet there's more. Not to knock on TJ because I'm a big fan but Henry is more talented. If he keeps his off the field problems in check he makes TJ expendable when his contract come up for renewal. Also they have 2 other really good WR's as well in Washington and Perry. So that means more spread in the offense which might keep TJ's numbers under 1000. But he'll get real close with those targets and the fact that many teams will double CJ and leave TJ with some ore targets.Ministry of Pain said:
Thank you
OK, let's talk stats. Chad Johnson has been one of the most consistent WR in football for the past 3 years. 2003 1,355/102004 1274/92005 1432/9His avg is right around 1350 yds a season. Housh has avg about 950 yds the past "2" seasons. CJ is putting up 40%+ more in yds a season and you are argueing that he is just about if not better than Chad Johnson...I've let this go but let's look at real numbers here. And he isn't close to Reggie Wayne either, sorry. Wayne has produced 1,200 and 1,050 yds the past 2 season and has a total of 17 TDs...Housh has 11...Chris Henry racked up 6 TDs as a rookie...Housh amassed a total of "1" in his 1st 2 seasons in the league.Chad Johnson is the number 1...TJ Housh is the clear #2...you took that preseason game the other night a little too seriously I think.
Ive gladly acknowledged that CJ has been a great reciever longer than TJ. But Housh _right now_ is significantly improved since 04. In 2005 he produced almost the same yardage and 3 more TDs than he did in 2004, even though he only played in 14 games (and was limited with a hand injury for 2 of those). Thats a great improvement.
Reggie Wayne played in 16 games last season and put up 3 less TDs than TJ and less yards per game. You are playing dirty pool by including Peyton Mannings ridicilous record shattering season in there. You really think it is legitimate to compare the 1b reciever lucky enough to play in the greatest passing display of all time to a guy who had Kitna and rookie Palmer throwing to him in 04?
Seeing how my league is ppr I'd very happy to have the 14th best wr for my #2 along with Wayne. Assuming he can duplicate those #'s this year he'd be the second best #2 wr in the league. I'd say he is a solif if not very good #2 and not average.
Who was the bengals QB during that time? I forget.
Same guy who is supposed to be a steal in Detroit. Same guy that tossed 24 TDs in Seattle...not sure of his name...maybe John Kcina...Kcittna..Kitna, that's it.
Chad Johnson wasn't a first round selection. Slow down there hoss, you're getting ahead of yourself. Chad is the more talented WR, there's no question there. However, to say he has way more talent is taking it too far. In terms of fantasy numbers, i could certainly see TJ challenging CJ this year, mainly because TJ can do two things I haven't seen from Chad: 1. Go up and catch the longball. We're not talking burning a DB here, which Chad is better at, but simply going up while being covered by one or two guys and just taking the ball away from them. 2. Yards after catch. Chad's said he's been working on this since the start of last year. TJ's had this down since he started getting significant playing time.In terms of NFL talent, Chad's better, but his attitude can get in the way and it's not as big a gap between CJ and TJ as you think it is.
Housh is certainly close to Wayne. He's right up there with Wayne. Plug in about half of the starting WRs in the league into Wayne's spot during those seasons with Manning throwing the ball all over the place and you come out with those stats. See, your whole premise to begin with was that when we're talking about overall talent, you don't go by stats. Stats = fantasy football. Now you're using stats to prove Wayne a better WR than Housh? He's only been starting for two years, and in reality he's only been a full time starter for one year. Give the guy some time, Wayne didn't just step right in and put up those numbers you're going on about. Took the guy until his 4th year in the league, second year starting a full season to put up those stats. Housh matched Wayne's numbers last year -75 yards and +2 TDs, and in 2 less games. The truth is, TJ came out of nowhere 2 years ago when Warrick was hurt and surprised everybody with how well he's played. His career is just getting started.As for Chris Henry, I haven't seen enough from him yet. It's very possible he's the better WR and takes the no. 2 spot this year. We'll see.
