Bart Scott (1 Viewer)

Are the 3 sacks and 3 passes defensed an anomoly or is he this good? I'll admit I don't understand the Ravens' 4-6 scheme so if someone could shed some light on how Scott fits in, I'd appreciate it.

Also If Lewis were to miss time due to injury, who would assume the MLB spot?

Thanks.

There's some discussion on the Ravens scheme in the Adalius Thomas thread.

Sidewinder16 said:

There's some discussion on the Ravens scheme in the Adalius Thomas thread.

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Yep, I read that. Didn't say much about Scott except a mention that he may be a top 30 LB. I'm curious to know how they use him. The Ravens depth chart shows he lines up behind Suggs, so that might explain the sack numbers? But against better o-lines or say, the Falcons, I'd imagine he would be less effective in that department, then you're stuck with 4 or 5 tackles, if that. A feast or famine type of player. Correct assessment?If the above is true, I'm wondering if a Thomas Howard is a better option. 15 solos thus far, and Oakland's D figures to see a lot of snaps this year. Both players are on my waiver wire.

McGarnicle said:

Sidewinder16 said:

There's some discussion on the Ravens scheme in the Adalius Thomas thread.

Click to expand...

Yep, I read that. Didn't say much about Scott except a mention that he may be a top 30 LB. I'm curious to know how they use him. The Ravens depth chart shows he lines up behind Suggs, so that might explain the sack numbers? But against better o-lines or say, the Falcons, I'd imagine he would be less effective in that department, then you're stuck with 4 or 5 tackles, if that. A feast or famine type of player. Correct assessment?If the above is true, I'm wondering if a Thomas Howard is a better option. 15 solos thus far, and Oakland's D figures to see a lot of snaps this year. Both players are on my waiver wire.

Click to expand...

Let me see if I can get this CODE function to work for me here...
O O O X O O SLB DE NT DE RUSH JLB MLB SSSLB = strong side backer = Adalius ThomasJLB = Jack linebacker = Bart ScottRush = rush end/backer = Terrell SuggsHere's one basic look of the 46 Bear front. It looks a little confusing at first, but it's essentially a three man front that can quickly become a six man front if the strong side, jack, and rush backer/end align on the LOS. The JLB and SS are often interchangeable in this defense -- in Buddy Ryan's version, SS Doug Plank, whose jersey number was 46 and the driving force behind the defense in it earliest stages, often aligned in the JLB slot in the above diagram while one of the backers lined up in a more traditional WLB position.The highlights of the variation the Ravens run and its fantasy prospects are as follows.

1 Adalius Thomas will align anywhere in this diagram -- SLB, JLB, SS, RUSH. This is what gives him the added value many of us missed last season. Most notes on this defense noted AT to be the SLB last pre-season without mentioning the multiple roles he'd actually be used in.

2 Terrell Suggs has the freedom to move up and down the line to exploit mismatches. You have a cruddy pass blocker at RT and a TE who you'd rather have running pass routes? Expect Suggs to align on the strong side. The RUSH position is traditionally a weak side end, but Suggs (like Thomas) really has a position all to himself.

3 Bart Scott is a weak side backer in name only. In truth, he's more likely to align in an overloaded formation on the strong side off the LOS than anywhere else. IMO, this makes him the equivalent of a 4-3 SLB -- inconsistent -- but the scheme puts him in an excellent position to make a few more tackles. You can see how he'd be protected from blockers even though he's on the strong side. And you can see how a well timed blitz would get him an excellent opportunity at a sack.

4 The way the "SS" is deployed here really gives him stud potential. He's either very near the LOS (JLB) or in a WLB alignment. The problem over the past 18 games has been that the Raven backers are so good in pursuit that Landry can't help but be a half-step late to the play no matter how quickly he gets there. Still, the potential is there. If one of the Raven backers gets hurt, it's going to be Landry and not the replacement backer that gets the bump in value.

5 It should also become clear why Ed Reed's value sucks in this scheme. The FS isn't in the box at all. I can't remember seeing a clip of him rushing the passer in the last two seasons. Reed will have to make an inordinate number of coverage plays or see a significant number of injuries to the front eight to have any chance at a consistent season.

Nice job Jene

From the pic you have 8 guys in the box with at least the five on the LOS having a sole purpose of getting pressure on the QB. Get to the quarterback before he has a chance to read the defense because there are holes that will be exploited. What benefits Baltimore is their tremendous ability...and flexibility. Having the coverage skills of Chris McAlister, Ed Reed and Adalius Thomas to rely on makes this click. With a shotty secondary, the QB would be able to get rid of the ball before the pass rush gets there. A shotty pass rush gives the QB more time than his secondary should be required to cover. Exceptional units on both ends can lead to something special, and that's just what we may have in Baltimore this year.

cracKer said:

Nice job Jene

From the pic you have 8 guys in the box with at least the five on the LOS having a sole purpose of getting pressure on the QB. Get to the quarterback before he has a chance to read the defense because there are holes that will be exploited. What benefits Baltimore is their tremendous ability...and flexibility. Having the coverage skills of Chris McAlister, Ed Reed and Adalius Thomas to rely on makes this click. With a shotty secondary, the QB would be able to get rid of the ball before the pass rush gets there. A shotty pass rush gives the QB more time than his secondary should be required to cover. Exceptional units on both ends can lead to something special, and that's just what we may have in Baltimore this year.

Click to expand...

Actually, the original 46 was designed to stop the run. But cracker is right, the defense worked so well for the Bears (moreso than the other teams Ryan worked with) because of the stud two-way players they had that allowed them the freedom to blitz without too much concern for the consequences. The Bears were overwhelming in both run defense and blitz packages. The Oilers -- not so much.Interestingly, the Ravens didn't have to blitz much at all against the Buccaneers. The alignment was so confusing to Chris Simms that when the Ravens dropped back into zone coverages he was lost. When they did blitz, the Buc OL wasn't good enough to make the adjustment.

Like anything else, the 46 has weaknesses. Notably, if you can pass protect and hit short routes (read: west coast offense principles) or get your QB time to attack the deep middle where only the FS is back, you'll beat this defense. As cracker said, though, that's going to be a tall order against the Ravens personnel. Ngata and Pryce are big upgrades and Landry is proving to be a key cog as well.

I'm really, really interested to see how the Bengals attack this defense with Palmer, three healthy WRs with the perfect set of skills, and an above-average pass blocking OL (including two solid TEs).

Jene Bramel said:

cracKer said:

Nice job Jene

From the pic you have 8 guys in the box with at least the five on the LOS having a sole purpose of getting pressure on the QB. Get to the quarterback before he has a chance to read the defense because there are holes that will be exploited. What benefits Baltimore is their tremendous ability...and flexibility. Having the coverage skills of Chris McAlister, Ed Reed and Adalius Thomas to rely on makes this click. With a shotty secondary, the QB would be able to get rid of the ball before the pass rush gets there. A shotty pass rush gives the QB more time than his secondary should be required to cover. Exceptional units on both ends can lead to something special, and that's just what we may have in Baltimore this year.

Click to expand...

Actually, the original 46 was designed to stop the run. But cracker is right, the defense worked so well for the Bears (moreso than the other teams Ryan worked with) because of the stud two-way players they had that allowed them the freedom to blitz without too much concern for the consequences. The Bears were overwhelming in both run defense and blitz packages. The Oilers -- not so much.Interestingly, the Ravens didn't have to blitz much at all against the Buccaneers. The alignment was so confusing to Chris Simms that when the Ravens dropped back into zone coverages he was lost. When they did blitz, the Buc OL wasn't good enough to make the adjustment.

Like anything else, the 46 has weaknesses. Notably, if you can pass protect and hit short routes (read: west coast offense principles) or get your QB time to attack the deep middle where only the FS is back, you'll beat this defense. As cracker said, though, that's going to be a tall order against the Ravens personnel. Ngata and Pryce are big upgrades and Landry is proving to be a key cog as well.

I'm really, really interested to see how the Bengals attack this defense with Palmer, three healthy WRs with the perfect set of skills, and an above-average pass blocking OL (including two solid TEs).

Click to expand...

Great job, Jene & Shawn, in decribing what the Ravens are doing. Is there anywhere to find info on who did what on each play? Specifically, what the LBs have done so far on every snap - who blitzed, who dropped into coverage, that sort of thing. To my layman's eye, it looks to me like Scott & AT have rushed the passer about the same amount of time, with Ray doing so less. But I could be way off on that. Thomas & Lewis are both fantastic pass cover LBs; Scott's still learning, but gets to the ball as fast as anyone playing LB today. The Ravens unveiled their version og the 46 against the Colts in the 2005 opener, and Manning worked them over pretty good. They backed off of it quite a bit as the season went on - the personnel just wasn't there or healthy, plus Ryan said this offseason that it takes about 2 seasons to learn it. This year, it looks like they have all of the weapons Ryan needs.

But, as Jene said, it's one thing to show the 46 against inexperienced or knuckle-headed QBs (Simms, Brooks, Walter) & another against a very good QB with WRs that won't quit as both TB's & Oakland's did.

Uruk-Hai said:

Great job, Jene & Shawn, in decribing what the Ravens are doing. Is there anywhere to find info on who did what on each play? Specifically, what the LBs have done so far on every snap - who blitzed, who dropped into coverage, that sort of thing. To my layman's eye, it looks to me like Scott & AT have rushed the passer about the same amount of time, with Ray doing so less. But I could be way off on that. Thomas & Lewis are both fantastic pass cover LBs; Scott's still learning, but gets to the ball as fast as anyone playing LB today.

Click to expand...

There are no outlets that provide defensive charting that I'm aware of. There are two places that do game charting (Football Outsiders and the Football Scientist). But unless you're aware of the specific defensive call and have the coaches tape (rather than the limited TV views) it's difficult to be accurate with specific coverages and responsibilities.My layman's eyes are seeing the same as yours.

This IDP forum puts others to shame. Great info, thanks much you guys.

Without a doubt. I love reading this stuff, you guys really do a hell of a job.

Thanks!