jurb26
Footballguy
I"ve already stated reasons. Maybe read the thread?
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NFL MVP (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter jurb26
- Start date
Billy Bats
Footballguy
After 3 weeks, who has the early track on NFL MVP?That was your thread question. You didn't ask me who I thought would finish as mvp, as you have started to do.Teams that are undefeated can certainly put several players in the running when the team itself is still looking for an identity, like NO is. NO is no 3-0 and still, I have no clue who will emerge or who even has emerged as teh stand out guy. Brees gets first dibs for being QB, but both Bush and McAlister could easily take that over.Same here. Drew Brees has more reason to be on there than those two. Too much Katrina kool-aid?Today my vote would go to McNabb. He's the reason they should be 3-0, the D is why they're not.I was wondering why McCallister was on the list
All I'm saying is that those two guys currently are not on the mvp track.
jurb26
Footballguy
Why do people continually get so worked up over semantics? If I wanted to ask who was the CURRENT MVP, I would have asked: After 3 weeks who would you give the MVP to?After 3 weeks, who has the early track on NFL MVP?That was your thread question. You didn't ask me who I thought would finish as mvp, as you have started to do.Teams that are undefeated can certainly put several players in the running when the team itself is still looking for an identity, like NO is. NO is no 3-0 and still, I have no clue who will emerge or who even has emerged as teh stand out guy. Brees gets first dibs for being QB, but both Bush and McAlister could easily take that over.Same here. Drew Brees has more reason to be on there than those two. Too much Katrina kool-aid?Today my vote would go to McNabb. He's the reason they should be 3-0, the D is why they're not.I was wondering why McCallister was on the list
All I'm saying is that those two guys currently are not on the mvp track.
Kleck
Footballguy
Are your really that wrapped up in a pissed off state? Why the attitude? Just need to rip into someone? The original question was "After 3 weeks, who has the early track on NFL MVP? ".Did I read the thread? Dude?
Bottom line. When you get mocked by Maurile, you need to seriously reconsider your stance on the issue at hand.
Billy Bats
Footballguy
Not Reggie Bush.Why do people continually get so worked up over semantics? If I wanted to ask who was the CURRENT MVP, I would have asked: After 3 weeks who would you give the MVP to?After 3 weeks, who has the early track on NFL MVP?That was your thread question. You didn't ask me who I thought would finish as mvp, as you have started to do.Teams that are undefeated can certainly put several players in the running when the team itself is still looking for an identity, like NO is. NO is no 3-0 and still, I have no clue who will emerge or who even has emerged as teh stand out guy. Brees gets first dibs for being QB, but both Bush and McAlister could easily take that over.Same here. Drew Brees has more reason to be on there than those two. Too much Katrina kool-aid?Today my vote would go to McNabb. He's the reason they should be 3-0, the D is why they're not.I was wondering why McCallister was on the list
All I'm saying is that those two guys currently are not on the mvp track.
LT is not the best RB in the league????? Manning is not the best QB in the league????? I would bet over half of the players in the NFL would say they are. Those guys have been doing it their whole career and have the respect needed to win an MVP award. Someone like McNabb also has respect and a huge year could make him a contender. I don't think even a huge year by Westbrook would be enough to win an MVP award. He can't carry a team like LT/Manning/McNabb can.I coulnd't disagree any more with these 2 points.
Kleck
Footballguy
You're the guy yelling "read the thread", but yet you're complaining about semantics. Sorry, man. You're going to get nothing but ridicule from everyone.Evilhomer3k
Footballguy
If the Saints end up making the playoffs I think Brees has the best chance of getting the MVP (assuming the continued performance from the first 3 games). Think about the publicity of Brees coming to NO and getting them to the playoffs after everything the city has gone through. Bush or McAllister share time so it would be tough for one of them to get it.
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jurb26
Footballguy
MVPs are not career awards, they are season awards. Westy is having a far more impressive season right now IMO. Not even close I don't think. Grossman has at least got to be considered in the class with Manning this year, right now. McNabb too. To say that nobody is een close to these guys is just flat wrong if you ask me. You act like these guys need to put up double the numbers of LT and Manning just to be in the conversation. That is not and should not be the case.LT is not the best RB in the league????? Manning is not the best QB in the league????? I would bet over half of the players in the NFL would say they are. Those guys have been doing it their whole career and have the respect needed to win an MVP award. Someone like McNabb also has respect and a huge year could make him a contender. I don't think even a huge year by Westbrook would be enough to win an MVP award. He can't carry a team like LT/Manning/McNabb can.I coulnd't disagree any more with these 2 points.
Billy Bats
Footballguy
jurb26
Footballguy
So, your worked up that I called Ben a "darkhorse." Yet never even bothered to read the whole thread. Wow shocker. I don't call those semantics, I call that ignoring the subject totally. Funny how YOUR ridicule is permited yet others in threads not to be named is not though... isn't it?
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Grossman will not win MVP. The Bears will win with Defense and a QB who does not make mistakes. I think the Bear could well win the Super Bowl, but that will not translate into an MVP for Grossman. The Bears were a serioius contender last year with the worst offense in the NFL.
Kleck
Footballguy
Worked up? Dude?Here ya go big fella... :hug:So, your worked up that I called Ben a "darkhorse." Yet never even bothered to read the whole thread. Wow shocker. I don't call those semantics, I call that ignoring the subject totally.
bullitt
Footballguy
Maybe you should read your own words, and try to understand what they mean.After 3 weeks, Big Ben is nowhere near the track for MVP. Could he find the track and lead?? Sure, but as you posted "after 3 weeks" he is not on track yet.
jurb26
Footballguy
For the second time, I DID NOT PUT HIM ON THAT LIST. I put a sperate post up for guys I called dark horses. Guys who I do not think are in the running now, but could be in the future.
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
Manning.
Grossman
Ray Ray
Brees
Hasselbeck
McNabb
Pennignton
Grossman
Ray Ray
Brees
Hasselbeck
McNabb
Pennignton
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jurb26
Footballguy
Why McNabb so low? Why Manning so high?
Evilhomer3k
Footballguy
Maybe I'm off base but I think the point was that LT and Manning have a better chance at winning the MVP because many people already consider them to be the best at their position. Given equal or near equal performance LT/Manning would have a better chance at becoming the MVP over a guy like Westbrook because of people preconcieved notion that they are better than westbrook.MVPs are not career awards, they are season awards. Westy is having a far more impressive season right now IMO. Not even close I don't think. Grossman has at least got to be considered in the class with Manning this year, right now. McNabb too. To say that nobody is een close to these guys is just flat wrong if you ask me. You act like these guys need to put up double the numbers of LT and Manning just to be in the conversation. That is not and should not be the case.LT is not the best RB in the league????? Manning is not the best QB in the league????? I would bet over half of the players in the NFL would say they are. Those guys have been doing it their whole career and have the respect needed to win an MVP award. Someone like McNabb also has respect and a huge year could make him a contender. I don't think even a huge year by Westbrook would be enough to win an MVP award. He can't carry a team like LT/Manning/McNabb can.I coulnd't disagree any more with these 2 points.
They are not suppose to be career awards, but without the resume it won't happen. If Westbrook goes for 1800 yards and LT goes for 1600, guess what. LT will get more votes based on reputation. Same for Manning and McNabb vs. Grossman. Grossman would have to outplay those two significantly to be considered. It won't happen.MVPs are not career awards, they are season awards. Westy is having a far more impressive season right now IMO. Not even close I don't think. Grossman has at least got to be considered in the class with Manning this year, right now. McNabb too. To say that nobody is een close to these guys is just flat wrong if you ask me. You act like these guys need to put up double the numbers of LT and Manning just to be in the conversation. That is not and should not be the case.LT is not the best RB in the league????? Manning is not the best QB in the league????? I would bet over half of the players in the NFL would say they are. Those guys have been doing it their whole career and have the respect needed to win an MVP award. Someone like McNabb also has respect and a huge year could make him a contender. I don't think even a huge year by Westbrook would be enough to win an MVP award. He can't carry a team like LT/Manning/McNabb can.I coulnd't disagree any more with these 2 points.
jurb26
Footballguy
I agree, these guys have strong reps that will aid them. The OP stated that LT is the ONLY RB to consider though. The ONLY one? I mean come on. Thats a bit extreme don't you think? Especially when Westy has put up over 400 total yds and 5 TDs in 3 games.
jurb26
Footballguy
I think the media and NFL loves the comback story too. Grossman is the kind of guy that would make that great story. Writen off former 1st round pick who didn't have the talent and can't stay healthy but finally puts it all together. Everyone loves an underdog.They are not suppose to be career awards, but without the resume it won't happen. If Westbrook goes for 1800 yards and LT goes for 1600, guess what. LT will get more votes based on reputation. Same for Manning and McNabb vs. Grossman. Grossman would have to outplay those two significantly to be considered. It won't happen.MVPs are not career awards, they are season awards. Westy is having a far more impressive season right now IMO. Not even close I don't think. Grossman has at least got to be considered in the class with Manning this year, right now. McNabb too. To say that nobody is een close to these guys is just flat wrong if you ask me. You act like these guys need to put up double the numbers of LT and Manning just to be in the conversation. That is not and should not be the case.LT is not the best RB in the league????? Manning is not the best QB in the league????? I would bet over half of the players in the NFL would say they are. Those guys have been doing it their whole career and have the respect needed to win an MVP award. Someone like McNabb also has respect and a huge year could make him a contender. I don't think even a huge year by Westbrook would be enough to win an MVP award. He can't carry a team like LT/Manning/McNabb can.I coulnd't disagree any more with these 2 points.
Kleck
Footballguy
Could you elaborate on that idea and tell us what you've seen from Big Ben so far this season that makes him a dark horse? To be clear, I haven't enjoyed his lack of success and I hope he turns it around, but I just don't see it at the moment that he has the slightest chance to win an MVP. I don't think the Steeler offense will allow him to put up the necessary numbers.
jurb26
Footballguy
The Steelers O looks very good to me despite Ben's poor play and to be honest I think it is soley his play that has held them back right now. WRs are getting open and the OLine is creating great rushing lanes (Jack game excluded). Not too mention giving Ben time to pass and executing great play fakes. Ben really just looks like he does not have his timing and chemistry down yet for whatever reason. Call it the incidents on the offseason or maybe just a SB hangover. Hell he could just have been due for a few bad games. I don't really know. I know I still see the arm strength, but I also see a lack of confidnece in his reads and accuracy. I also see a QB who seems to feel the need to force things in an effort to get that back. I think he will bounce back as good players do. Ben is no where near as bad a palyer as he has showed the past 2 games. If you are expecting him to stay that way, then you will be vastly disapointed IMO. Big plays are there to be made and eventually I think he starts making them. The buy week comes at a great time.
Guys that win MVP have names like Marino, Manning, Faulk, Sanders, Farve. These guys dominate the league. Grossman does not merit consideration to be among those guys yet. Winning an MVP award has little to do with stats, but fear and respect. If the Bears go 16-0, Brian Urlacher is MVP. Besides, Grossman did not look all that good against Minnisota.
jurb26
Footballguy
You say Grossman did not look good vs Minn and that maybe true. Yet he still has a higher passer rating, more TDs and better completion % than Manning. Not too mention a 3-0 record just like Payton and he threw the game winning TD pass in a clutch moment. Maybe your right, mabye Manning gets the nod just by name. Still, I don't think you can say that others should not be in the debate though.
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Besides the Bears were 11-5 with Ken Ortman at QB. Yes Ken Ortman. 9 TDs and 13 ints for the season and a QB rating of 59.7!!! Any legitimate NFL QB wins playing for the Bears. Stats mean little for an MVP award.
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jurb26
Footballguy
I don't see how that is a negavtive for Grossman. It would be if he was playing average football and 3-0. He has a QB rating OVER 100. He is playing very good football and Chi is winnning because of it. Orton was playing very poor football and Chi was winning despite it. The bottom very well could fall out for Grossman, but right now he is performing very well. Oh and Grossman is basically doing it w/o a running game to speak of either. 2.7 ypc on the ground and not a single TD scored via the run.
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Do the Colts go to the playoffs without Manning??? No way. Does San Diego go to the playoffs without LT???? No way. Does Philly go to the playoffs without McNabb???? No way. Do the Bears go to the playoffs without Grossman??? Absolutely. Grossman is playing well and may help the Bears go to the Super Bowl, but that is not enough for an MVP award.
jurb26
Footballguy
How exaclty do the Bears go to the playoffs THIS YEAR w/o Grossman based off of the perfomances they have put up thus far? They have been totally inept at running the ball so far. In games 1 and 2, big leads were created by Grossmans arm. In game 3 he scores the game winning TD pass late. I think you're looking too much at last year and trying to apply it here.
jurb26
Footballguy
Agreed, but really didn't want to even bother touching that one.
BrentBlack
Footballguy
First person that came to mind when I read the thread title. How could it not be Ben?
exactly against teams that are pinning their ears back and going after himI bet most people dont care as hes picked up a majority of his stats in blowouts.david carr
no seriously can u imagine the texans with a qb that had a rating under 100
i bet people dont realize he leads the league in qb rating
Carr is the most-sacked QB, on a per-season basis, in the history of the NFL. He is playing against teams who generally have huge leads, and are therefore unloading everything they have against him. The fact that he's still WALKING right now is a miracle. The fact that he has a QB rating over 100 is almost beyond belief. I personally feel like it'll fall back to earth at some point, but Carr seriously needs some lovin' right now.Anyway, my MVP candidate is someone whose name hasn't come up yet, and that's a crying shame.
Champ Bailey.
People talk about how overrated Bailey is... ask Denver's opponents how overrated he is. As far as I can tell, Denver's opponents have thrown to Bailey's side of the field SIX TIMES this season. That gives you a pretty clear indication of how good they think he is. And it's not as if the other side of the field is manned by some nobodies- Darrent Williams got strong DRoY consideration last year before he got hurt.
People say that there hasn't been a shut-down CB in the league since Sanders left, but Bailey is quite literally SHUTTING DOWN his side of the field... and what makes that accomplishment far more impressive than anything Sanders ever did is that Bailey is managing this feat in the era where the rules are stacked against him like never before. Even more impressive still is that Bailey is still a complete player- while teams haven't even tested him in pass coverage, he's been excelling in run coverage instead, taking down guys like Larry Johnson and Steven Jackson with textbook open-field tackles that would make any LB proud (something that Sanders would never do).
The entire reason Denver's defense has been so good to this point is Champ Bailey, plain and simple. The passrush is adequate, and the rushing defense is only doing so well because Denver can leave 8 in the box without any worries, because Champ hasn't needed any help so far. If he keeps this up, he should be a no-brainer choice for defensive MVP.
Fun little stats. Champ Bailey has 18 tackles so far this season. 15 of them were solo (mostly against Larry Johnson and Steven Jackson, two hard dudes to bring down). 7 of them came against WRs. Of those 7 tackles against WRs, you know how far the longest play went for? 8 yards. You've got a 7 yard completion to Holt, a 5 yard completion to Holt, a 4 yard completion to Bruce, a 4 yard completion to Holt, a 6 yard completion to Dante Hall, an 8 yard completion to Sammie Parker, and a 2 yard completion to Eddie Kennison. Only two of those passes were good for first downs. It's absolutely remarkable...
In an era where the league has stacked all the rules in favor of the offense, Champ Bailey quite simply is. not. getting. beat.
Lauryn
Footballguy
Lord Lucan
Footballguy
Having missed the first two games, which his team lost (whilst looking very moderate on offense), and then come in and immediately contributed a 100-yard game which his team won, surely there has to be a chance we will be talking about Steve Smith in this category before long? There can't be many players who are as important to his team as he is.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
I would add Matt Hasselbeck to this list especially with SA down for awhile but I see Jurb26 has "issues" with the Seahawks.
San Diego is not in the NFC, where a good defense is enough to carry you into the playoffs. San Diego needs LT to make the playoffs. Without LT, Den/NE/IND/JAX/Balt/ Cincy are in the playoffs. Period.BTW, I would take Peyton, LT, and McNabb, you can have every other offensive player in the league. If the MVP goes to an offensive player, I would bet $100 it would be one those three.Agreed, but really didn't want to even bother touching that one.
cantstandya
Footballguy
Where's Jeff George on that list? None of those guys even compare to the one and only JG. Just kidding, MVP equals PEYTON MANNING.
jurb26
Footballguy
Maybe you should get your facts straight. Hassy IS on the list. Though after nonight, I think he should fall off.Grossman just keeps rolling.
Mudcrab
Footballguy
Some unheralded, ex grocery store clerk with only 11 prior attempts in the NFL won the MVP in 1999
onside kick this weekhuge play every week for this guy
Lord Lucan
Footballguy
His team loses its first two games. He returns and bags 17 catches in its next two games and suddenly they are 2-2. That's what I call an impact player. He scares the beejaysus out of his opponents.
I don't see why Vick is being so highly touted for MVP. He's completing 47% of his passes for 5.43 yards per attempt and he's been sacked 9 times for -48 in 3 games. Sure he's running the ball well, but he's hurting the team substantially as a passer and he's passed~3x as often as he runs so.I think McNabb and Westbrook are the top players thus far this year(No, I'm not an Eagles fan).
Perfect Tommy
Footballguy
Brett Favre has to be considered a possibility. If the team manages to make the playoffs, it will be entirely on the arm of Brett Favre. He already has six TDs after three games. After PHI, the schedule becomes much easier. They have to win some games, but with Favre at the helm, they have a great chance every week. Lest we forget, the man already has three MVPs and he is possibly the most beloved player in the league.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Maroney.
Shhhhh!
Shhhhh!
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
If the Panthers make the playoffs, he could have a good shot, since they were 0-2 without him.
