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IDP vs. Team D (1 Viewer)

As usual Jene defends the School of IDP about as good as it can be argued.

My introduction to FF was in an IDP league 9 years ago. I was playing that for 4 years before I ever joined a Team D league so I guess my approach is a bit jaded. But I've always preferred the IDP route. Once again, this will come off as condescending but I assure you it's not my intent. It's been my experience that intensive research pays off much more in IDP leagues than Team D. There are seemingly a few teams every year (Baltimore, TB) that are consistent Team D gems and others that are undraftable (Texans). Most casual fans are aware of this. That being the case, I always preferred the IDP format as I like a system that rewards the more informed owner. Before anyone crucifies me understand I'm not saying Team D is for mental midgets and only the true intellectuals play IDP. I'm simply stating that I feel IDP rewards intensive research moreso than Team D. Since I know that I do more research than a handful of owners in my original league I always go into the season confident in my ability to contend. I like that setup. FF is what you make of it. If I'm going to be a junkie and spend far too much time on this hobby I at least want to feel like my efforts have a better chance of resulting in success than the guy who buys a magazine a week before the draft and doesn't stray from the cheatsheets. My experience has been that IDP has a much lower "luck factor" and that preparation tends to pay off more consistently. Lastly, I enjoy doing this research. I like delving into individual teams to see who's switching to a 4-3, who's adopting the Cover 2, etc. If that doesn't interest you then I'd suggest sticking with Team D. Like was previously said before, neither format is wrong. I just find that IDP suits my interests better.

 
Our league 'upgraded' to IDP 10 years ago. After 4 years of trying to track individual defensive performances, we gave it up as too time consuming and went with team defense. Too often the best IDP were those on poor defensive units. It was kind of fun with you got the best tackler on a poor defense, but after a while it was just not worth the time to most people in the league.

 
Our league 'upgraded' to IDP 10 years ago. After 4 years of trying to track individual defensive performances, we gave it up as too time consuming and went with team defense. Too often the best IDP were those on poor defensive units. It was kind of fun with you got the best tackler on a poor defense, but after a while it was just not worth the time to most people in the league.
I know I'm beginning to come off as obstinate and argumentative here but there's a point to be made for anyone who might be following this thread and on the fence about IDP leagues.Here's the top 20 tacklers from NFL.com last season...1 Jonathan Vilma NYJ 169 2 Zach Thomas MIA 158 3 London Fletcher BUF 157 4 Donnie Edwards SD 152 5 Andra Davis CLE 149 6 Keith Bulluck TEN 138 7 Nick Barnett GB 138 8 Mike Peterson JAC 131 9 Shelton Quarles TB 129 10 Gary Brackett IND 127 11 Demorrio Williams ATL 12712 Derrick Brooks TB 125 13 Erik Coleman NYJ 121 14 Brian Urlacher CHI 121 15 Angelo Crowell BUF 119 16 James Farrior PIT 119 17 Jeremiah Trotter PHI 119 18 Kirk Morrison OAK 116 19 Derek M. Smith SF 116 20 Keith Brooking ATL 115 How many of these guys are replacement level NFL talents on poor defenses? One. Erik Coleman. And I'll respect arguments that Derek Smith isn't anything special. Sure, you can make the argument that some of these tackles stats are inflated by poor defenses (Vilma, Barnett) but every player on this list is a consistent, legitimate NFL talent, even Demorrio Williams, whose skill set just doesn't fit well in the current Atlanta scheme/cast. Players like Jay Foreman and Ronald McKinnon exist, but they are the exception, not the standard.I'm happy to buy the "too time-consuming" part of the argument. But I'm going to continue to refute the crapshoot arguments and not reflective of good players or the true NFL landscape arguments.
 
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houndirish said:
As usual Jene defends the School of IDP about as good as it can be argued.My experience has been that IDP has a much lower "luck factor" and that preparation tends to pay off more consistently. Lastly, I enjoy doing this research. I like delving into individual teams to see who's switching to a 4-3, who's adopting the Cover 2, etc. If that doesn't interest you then I'd suggest sticking with Team D. Like was previously said before, neither format is wrong. I just find that IDP suits my interests better.
:goodposting: Especially the "luck" point. There's a reason why standard leagues have kickers and team Ds chosen last or at least very late. They just aren't that valuable, they're too difficult to project, they clump together, yada yada-- lucjk factor. Likewise there's a reason why stud IDPs are drafted before QBs in most IDP leagues. My two favorite leagues have banned kickers and team Ds because their removal removed "some of the luck" involved.
 
This is my 1st year doing IDP and so far I can say :shrug:

I pretty much neglect it.

Like when I had an aquarium, nice to pass by and look at once in awhile, sometimes I will even feed the fish.

I bought this orphoned team, 2 weeks after they tell me they are adding on IDP, so I give it a shot.

I will play next year with it, more scoring, more options, usually = more fun.

It's just hard for me to take it so serious, when I rank the top 20 Defensive players, and 12 of them are free agents in my league.

Maybe it will grow on me

 
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IDP leagues take more skill to compete at a high level than team defense leagues. IDPs add many dimensions that a skillfull fantasy player can take advantage of.

 
Jene Bramel said:
jon_mx said:
Here's the top 20 tacklers from NFL.com last season...1 Jonathan Vilma NYJ 169 2 Zach Thomas MIA 158 3 London Fletcher BUF 157 4 Donnie Edwards SD 152 5 Andra Davis CLE 149 6 Keith Bulluck TEN 138 7 Nick Barnett GB 138 8 Mike Peterson JAC 131 9 Shelton Quarles TB 129 10 Gary Brackett IND 127 11 Demorrio Williams ATL 12712 Derrick Brooks TB 125 13 Erik Coleman NYJ 121 14 Brian Urlacher CHI 121 15 Angelo Crowell BUF 119 16 James Farrior PIT 119 17 Jeremiah Trotter PHI 119 18 Kirk Morrison OAK 116 19 Derek M. Smith SF 116 20 Keith Brooking ATL 115 How many of these guys are replacement level NFL talents on poor defenses?
I never said replacement level talent. But who were the top defensive teams in the league last year. Chicago, TB, Pittsburg, Baltimore, Jacksonville, Den, Indy, Seatle, Washington, Carolina. Those teams don't exactly dominate the list. Anybody who gets 150 tackles is a monster. However, if I were building a real team, I would probably take Brooks at #12 and Urlacher at #14 over the rest of the bunch, although you have to love Zach Thomas.And then there are guys like Dion Sanders. One of the best cover guys of all time, but couldn't tackle if his life depended on it.
 
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This is my 1st year doing IDP and so far I can say :shrug:

I pretty much neglect it.

Like when I had an aquarium, nice to pass by and look at once in awhile, sometimes I will even feed the fish.

I bought this orphoned team, 2 weeks after they tell me they are adding on IDP, so I give it a shot.

I will play next year with it, more scoring, more options, usually = more fun.

It's just hard for me to take it so serious, when I rank the top 20 Defensive players, and 12 of them are free agents in my league.

Maybe it will grow on me
How did you rank them?
 
Here's the top 20 tacklers from NFL.com last season...1 Jonathan Vilma NYJ 169 2 Zach Thomas MIA 158 3 London Fletcher BUF 157 4 Donnie Edwards SD 152 5 Andra Davis CLE 149 6 Keith Bulluck TEN 138 7 Nick Barnett GB 138 8 Mike Peterson JAC 131 9 Shelton Quarles TB 129 10 Gary Brackett IND 127 11 Demorrio Williams ATL 12712 Derrick Brooks TB 125 13 Erik Coleman NYJ 121 14 Brian Urlacher CHI 121 15 Angelo Crowell BUF 119 16 James Farrior PIT 119 17 Jeremiah Trotter PHI 119 18 Kirk Morrison OAK 116 19 Derek M. Smith SF 116 20 Keith Brooking ATL 115 How many of these guys are replacement level NFL talents on poor defenses?
I never said replacement level talent. But who were the top defensive teams in the league last year. Chicago, TB, Pittsburg, Baltimore, Jacksonville, Den, Indy, Seatle, Washington, Carolina. Those teams aren't well represented on this list. Anybody who gets 150 tackles is a monster. However, if I were building a real team, I would probably take Brooks at #12 and Urlacher at #14 over the rest of the bunch, although you have to love Zach Thomas.
I said replacement level talent in response to the comment that IDP leagues were poor formats because "too often the best IDPs were those on poor defensive units" which implies that the top IDP talents aren't good players but merely decent players on good defenses.I see the larger point, though.Top 12 Defenses (YPG)Tampa Bay 16 950 277.8 (apologies for the format; this is G/Plays/YPG)Chicago 16 1034 281.8 Carolina 16 981 282.6 Pittsburgh 16 998 284.0 Baltimore 16 998 284.7 Jacksonville 16 963 290.9 Green Bay 16 969 293.1 Arizona 16 936 295.6 Washington 16 981 297.9 Dallas 16 946 300.9 5.1 Indianapolis 16 953 307.1 New York (A) 16 1047 308.8 Top 12 Defenses (PPG)Chicago 16 12.6 Indianapolis 16 15.4 Pittsburgh 16 16.1 Denver 16 16.1 Carolina 16 16.2 Jacksonville 16 16.8 Seattle 16 16.9 Tampa Bay 16 17.1 Washington 16 18.3 Baltimore 16 18.7 Cleveland 16 18.8 Dallas 16 19.2 Tampa Bay, Chicago, Carolina, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Jacksonville, Washington, Dallas, and Indianapolis were in the top third of 2005 NFL defenses by most folks' definition of "good" defense (PPG and YPG allowed).Six of the top fifteen tacklers played for these teams. If you include teams on one list and not the other, ten of the top fifteen are included. Of the others, if you wish to argue that Zach Thomas, London Fletcher, Donnie Edwards, Keith Bulluck, Jeremiah Trotter, Kirk Morrison, and Keith Brooking are players that are just products of their defensive system and their tackle numbers derive from their relatively poor defense rather than their talent, then I respect that argument. Won't agree, but will respect it.If you're now saying that a second level talent player is more likely to make more tackles in a poor defense than a good defense because of opportunity, I'll agree wholeheartedly. Then I'll bring up any number of offensive players in which that comparison holds as well. Was Mike Anderson a better RB than Willis McGahee talent wise? Why should Chris Henry be a better option than Eddie Kennison this season thus far? Would you really rather have Kerry Collins than Donovan McNabb for your startup NFL team? Fantasy stats say the answer to all three is yes.Again, not trying to be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. Just presenting the other side of the story. I firmly believe it's a time or lack of interest issue. The other arguments just don't wash for me.Thanks.
 
I firmly believe it's a time or lack of interest issue. The other arguments just don't wash for me.
In a nutshell, that's it. IDP leagues take more time and effort to be successful in them, provided they have a deep enough starting lineup (8+ IDPs). Team D's are like PK's as mentioned above in the thread and get as much time devoted to them. So it is neither a good or bad thing having IDP's or team D's. It's more a league time thing. If you have a league of owners with the time to delve into IDP's, definitely consider it. If you have a league with owners that don't spend alot of time running their teams, then IDP's are probably not for you.I think the "shutdown corner" arguement is an agree to disagree one. Those that can't see past that will never be able to no matter how many examples of the equivalent on offense are given. (fullbacks, OL, blocking TE's. etc...)

So anyone on the fence, definitely give it a go. I'd also suggest the full 11 IDP starters with DL, LB and DB's to start. Dividing up the positions in DE & DT and CB and Safties is also a possibility. Just be sure your scoring system meshes well with your offensive scoring. (WAFFLE is my league with a unique defensive tiered scoring system, or another league with a more standard performance and per tackle scoring: VDL )

Once you lift the covers on IDP's a whole new level of fantasy football will be seen. But it will take up more of your time. As with the offensive side of the ball and how various offensive coordinators and team philosophies directly impact the value of offensive players, so to do the defensive coordinators and defensive styles (3-4, 4-3, cover-2, tampa-2, read-n-react, etc...) directly impact the value of IDPs. Once you join a IDP league and dive into the underlining cause and effects of IDPs, you will find just as much predictability in IDP scoring as one gets with offensive players and the various cause and effects that determine their values.

 
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I firmly believe it's a time or lack of interest issue. The other arguments just don't wash for me.
I'd also suggest the full 11 IDP starters with DL, LB and DB's to start. Dividing up the positions in DE & DT and CB and Safties is also a possibility. Just be sure your scoring system meshes well with your offensive scoring.
:goodposting: 11 IDP starters is the best out there IMO. You talk about giving the edge to the guys who like to studdy, this is it. Picking up that 4th staring LB that no one else knew about and he ends up being top 20, is :money: .
 

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