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Housh > Chad Johnson? (1 Viewer)

pghrob

pghrob

Footballguy
Housh looked great v. the Steelers last week. I know the Steeler D game planned to shut out Johnson. The Bengals to their credit have too many weapons and made them pay by killing them with Housh and Henry.

I have no faith that Chris Henry will stay out of trouble. That said, I do wonder if Housh is closing the gap between him and CJ, becoming just as equal an option in the mind of Palmer?

Housh runs precise routes, is similarly built, is just as cocky, and maybe slightly less respected than CJ which makes him prime for becoming his team's new #1 WR.

What do you think?

 
phillzphan said:
CJ >> Housh.
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I don't really agree with this. I think CJ may be the more flamboyant player with more talent, but TJ (although only after one game this year) looks to be more of the Bengals' possession guy. If TJ gets 7-9 catches again this week and Chad ends up with 4-6, then we'll know a little more. I think Palmer throws to the open guy and if Chad is double-teamed or at least closely watched by the roving safety more than TJ is, then TJ should get more looks. Who is better in the long run? Probably Chad, but TJ is still a very good WR2 that might wind up with more receptions than Chad at the end of the year - provided he stays healthy.
 
if you're talking fantasy numbers then maybe they might be in the same ballpark, but in terms of real life NFL talent its not close in my opinion. Chad is head and shoulders more talented than TJ, and thats taking nothing away from Housh. Chad is a very very very talented WR, he just gets all the coverages rolled to him and Palmer is a good QB and hits the open guy.

 
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Loopdog said:
if you're talking fantasy numbers then maybe they might be in the same ballpark, but in terms of real life NFL talent its not close in my opinion. Chad is head and shoulders more talented than TJ, and thats taking nothing away from Housh. Chad is a very very very talented WR, he just gets all the coverages rolled to him and Palmer is a good QB and hits the open guy.
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very :goodposting: however in terms of fantasy football prodution:Housh vs single coverage > CJ vs double coverage
 
Housh always draws the 2nd level cover which will bump up his numbers. What's remarkable is that these 2 were also quite a tandem in college - scouting Chad is how they got to see Housh so much. Not bad for a 7th round pick :banned:

Who Dey :)

-QG

 
I think we are missing the point here in trying to figure out who's the best receiver between CJ and TJ... while the underlying fact is that they help each other out by being on the field at the same time... and it's even tougher for defenses when you add Chris Henry to the mix - imagine the DB coach having to play his nickel back on TJ or Henry and knowing that it's Carson Palmer (with the most accurate cannon in the league) that is tossing the football... lovely...

The fact of the matter is that CJ stretches defenses and if open - Palmer will toss it to him...

On 3rd down / redzone looks and/or possession plays - he'll look at TJ...

Add Rudi (and Perry for CoP when healthy) to the mix and you can see that it's a nightmare to try and stop them... From this, the bottom line is that CJ and TJ are risk free FF WRs... unless one gets injured (concussion anyone?), this means that defenses won't be able to lock on and stop one of them - without the other burning them... this is why it's pretty safe to say CJ will post top5 numbers (95/1400/10) and TJ is an adequate WR2 (80/1000/6)

When there are discrepancies in term of talent between the 1st and 2nd WR on a particular team - this is where it gets risky for the WR1 - regularly teams will focus on him (doubling him / jamming him at the line - unless they have a shutdown corner) - just think about Muhammad last year (I know the QB situation wasn't ideal but nevertheless...)

So, this is why I think CJ and Harrison, for example, are safer picks (higher floor) than Randy Moss (injury aside)... and I don't think we should focus on who's the better Bengal WR? Just see that they complement each other perfectly and are thus "undefendable"...

My 2 cents

 
This is an exact example of why teams need at least two good WRs. Coverage dictates where the ball is going to go (at least it should). Housh has been banged up, so defenses have focused on Chad. Housh was surprisingly productive last week, Henry is an obvious threat, THUS things will equal out by seasons end. Due to the fact that defenses will have to respect 3+ targets. Chad is off to a slow start, buy now. Housh is a good compliment, but let's be reasonable, he is not more talented than CJ. Will he have better FF games than him, sure. Reggie Wayne has done the same thing in Indy. But Reggie is not > than Harrison.

Summary:

Coverages dictate where the ball goes. As a team proves to have other options, the cream (CJ) rises to the top.

 
Fantasy wise, it depends on your scoring system. CJ will be better in yardage/TD heavy leagues, TJ gets a bump in PPR leagues.

 
This is way, way closer than most people realize. In the last 15 games they both played in:

CJ: 1470yds, 7 TDs

Housh: 1110yds, 10 TDs

 
dabommers said:
Would you play both at the same time if they were your 2 best receivers?
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Absolutely. Playing two receivers from the same team will make your WR production more consistent than playing two comparable receivers not from the same team.Drinen study on 2 WRs from same team (2002)

ETA: Of course, you want those two receivers coming from a team like the Bengals or Colts and not from a team like the Raiders circa 2006

 
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TJ has always been one of the most underrated WRs in the league. He was very impressive as a slot receiver in 2002 before a nasty hamstring injury ruined his 2003 after a very good preseason. There was some discussion about whether TJ would make the team in 2004 with Chad Johnson establishing himself, Warrick coming off a great year and Kelley Washington starting to establish himself as a third down option in TJ absence. But the Bengals re-signed him out of RFA anyway and he took advantage of an injury to Peter Warrick and blew up.

TJ is every bit the route runner Chad Johnson is. His percentage of receptions on catchable balls is close to 95% by one metric I recently saw. Johnson is fearless going after the ball, but TJ is tougher and blocks better. CJ is a very good receiver and TJ certainly gets some extra opportunity when defenses roll coverage his way. But TJ is a solid receiver in his own right and has shown the ability to beat above-average NFL corners during the past three seasons. He probably would have a tough time making the transition to a number one WR without Chad around, but he wouldn't be a Alvin Harper/Peerless Price type player either.

Thoughts from a Bengal homer and TJ (and CJ) fan. But I think they're pretty objective.

 
Wheelhouse said:
phillzphan said:
CJ >> Housh.
Click to expand...
I don't really agree with this. I think CJ may be the more flamboyant player with more talent, but TJ (although only after one game this year) looks to be more of the Bengals' possession guy. If TJ gets 7-9 catches again this week and Chad ends up with 4-6, then we'll know a little more. I think Palmer throws to the open guy and if Chad is double-teamed or at least closely watched by the roving safety more than TJ is, then TJ should get more looks. Who is better in the long run? Probably Chad, but TJ is still a very good WR2 that might wind up with more receptions than Chad at the end of the year - provided he stays healthy.
Click to expand...
They make an excellent tandem. TJ does well when he has a speedy guy on the other side. Chris Henry could do that too, but Chad is better. I don't think you can say TJ is better, but I think he is one of the best #2 WR's in the league. Only Boldin/Fitz may be better.I drfated hmi in the 9th last year but in the 4th this season. You may have to go even higher next season.
 
Sorry,

I just have to say this. I don't have a # 1 receiver. I have T.J. & Boldin as my top WR's in my biggest $$$$ league. I had first pick in the 14 teamer and took LJ & Foster with my 1st two picks. I know, Ouch!?

My point is, the # 2 WR's on teams that have someone who commands double coverage always are in some cases better that the # 1's on other teams. I think T.J. & Boldin are two of them.

I also really like the # 2 on the Colts.

Cleavage

 
I've been thrilled with TJ thus far. Drafted him as my wr1 in round 4 of my 14-team league. Was scoffed at bc after the draft I had no "real nfl #1 wrs" on my team. But now that he is healthy, he's avg. wr1 numbers for me, so no complaints.

Whether or not he finishes the year with better stats than CJ, it is thus far inarguable that he represents FAR more value than CJ did in drafts.

 
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