Spike
Footballguy
Another tidbit on the type of player Mangini (by extension, from the years with Belichick) will look for is the "lives only for football" type of guy.This is not to take anything away from what was an excellent post.
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HERD's 2007 - NFL Mock Draft - VErsion 1.0 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Colin Dowling
- Start date
Spike
Footballguy
I don't go with "absolute" declarations often, but here's one (as a Pats homer):"No freakin' way Belichick trades Wilfork!"Tade Wilford?Bracie Smathers said:I am not a Pats fan but that makes absolutely no sense. Who would the Pats replace Wilford with? If the Pats wanted to move up they could offer two 1st round picks (their own and Seattle's) and keep the center of their defense intact. Even if they could move up that far, I'm not sure they would want to pay top 10 money for a rookie WR. They already balked on Givens and Branch contract demands.
Seriously.
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
I actually think Branch is a very viable candidate to race in to the top 3-5 as we get closer to the draft. He is HUGE and extremely athletic. Currently, I have him a little lower b/c his intentions appar to be unknown. If he comes out, I expect he'll definitely move in to the top-10 at worst.
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
New mock coming this week, but tonight's game affects a bit of the draft order so I'll hold tight. Updated Top 5...
1. Detroit - Joe Thomas - OT - Wisconsin
2. Oakland - Brady Quinn - QB - Notre Dame
3. Tampa Bay - Calvin Johnson - WR - Georgia Tech
4. Arizona - Alan Branch - DT - Michigan
5. Houston - Adrian Peterson - RB - Oklahoma
1. Detroit - Joe Thomas - OT - Wisconsin
2. Oakland - Brady Quinn - QB - Notre Dame
3. Tampa Bay - Calvin Johnson - WR - Georgia Tech
4. Arizona - Alan Branch - DT - Michigan
5. Houston - Adrian Peterson - RB - Oklahoma
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
God that sucks for the Lions - A team with so many needs having to spend a #1 overall, and pay #1 money, to an offensive lineman.
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
I hope you're kidding and being sarcastic, but I can't be sure...God that sucks for the Lions - A team with so many needs having to spend a #1 overall, and pay #1 money, to an offensive lineman.
JaxBill
Footballguy
You would think that the Lions would be able to entice Houston to jump ahead of Oakland to draft Quinn and replace Carr.Nah, that's gving both front offices too much credit.God that sucks for the Lions - A team with so many needs having to spend a #1 overall, and pay #1 money, to an offensive lineman.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Why would I be kidding?I hope you're kidding and being sarcastic, but I can't be sure...God that sucks for the Lions - A team with so many needs having to spend a #1 overall, and pay #1 money, to an offensive lineman.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Anyone?A tackle has been taken with the #1 pick only three times in the history of the NFL draft:1997 - Orlando Pace, Ohio State by the Rams1968 - Ron Yary, USC by the Vikings1964 - Bob Brown, Nebraska by the BroncosWhy would I be kidding?I hope you're kidding and being sarcastic, but I can't be sure...God that sucks for the Lions - A team with so many needs having to spend a #1 overall, and pay #1 money, to an offensive lineman.
I think you're right on - especially considering they just gave Backus a big contract a year ago.Hell, the Lions even need WRs. Is that irony?Anyone?A tackle has been taken with the #1 pick only three times in the history of the NFL draft:1997 - Orlando Pace, Ohio State by the Rams1968 - Ron Yary, USC by the Vikings1964 - Bob Brown, Nebraska by the BroncosWhy would I be kidding?I hope you're kidding and being sarcastic, but I can't be sure...God that sucks for the Lions - A team with so many needs having to spend a #1 overall, and pay #1 money, to an offensive lineman.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I didn't mean to say that COlin made a sucky pick by giving Thomas to the Lions. That's not what I meant. Hope he didn't take it that way. 
What I meant was that it is a viable reality that they could spend that pick/money on a tackle. And that sucks for them.
What I meant was that it is a viable reality that they could spend that pick/money on a tackle. And that sucks for them.
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pgreenfan
Footballguy
If he turns out to be Ogden/Pace and not Gallery they should be very happy.I didn't mean to say that COlin made a sucky pick by giving Thomas to the Lions. That's not what I meant. Hope he didn't take it that way.
What I meant was that it is a viable reality that they could spend that pick/money on a tackle. And that sucks for them.
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
Point taken Andy. I just think that the Lions new brass, whoever it is, HAS to realize that the team's greatest need isn't necessarily at QB.
Agreed. And LT and WR look like areas the Lions have at least focused on improving and yet they still could pick Thomas or Johnson and I at least wouldn't blink. I also saw an assessment somewhere about the Lions needing LBs in addition to Sims, and yet they have Bailey and Lehman on the roster, who each cost a 2nd round pick.People like to bash the Lions for drafting WRs and not building the "right way" by starting with the line. But really, their problem is that for whatever reason most of their picks don't seem to have developed, no matter the position.I didn't mean to say that COlin made a sucky pick by giving Thomas to the Lions. That's not what I meant. Hope he didn't take it that way.
What I meant was that it is a viable reality that they could spend that pick/money on a tackle. And that sucks for them.
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
The problem for the Lions (and to a lesser degree, the Raiders) is that despite the fact that Thomas, Quinn, and Johnson will all have their share of scouts drooling, trading up for the #1 is just far too costly these days. Think about the last few top-5 deals. The price to move up has been insanely high.
As a side, while I'm happy the Titans are winning, I am concerned about their draft spot. While it's a long gone conclusion that they won't be high enough to draft Johnson, they are quickly playing themselves out of Laron Landry and Dwayne Jarrett range too, which is scary.
As a side, while I'm happy the Titans are winning, I am concerned about their draft spot. While it's a long gone conclusion that they won't be high enough to draft Johnson, they are quickly playing themselves out of Laron Landry and Dwayne Jarrett range too, which is scary.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
That I agree with. I don't think they should/could be blamed for taking Quinn #1, nor do I think it's the wrong play to go a different direction. Any one of Quinn/Thomas/A. Peterson/C. Johnson are viable options for the Lions with the #1.I for one am a Quinn believer. I also think that if they took AP with the #1 and Troy Smith (he'll likely be there) with their 2.1, that they would accelerate the rebuilding process quickly. But given the Andre Ware debacle, I'm not sure they're interested in drafting another Heisman winner, no matter whether or not the cases relate.I think the Lions' board should look like this:1. Quinn2. Peterson3. Thomas
zamboni
Footballguy
I think the Harrington experience would come more into play than Ware, which is essentially ancient history. But either way, the team may be reticent to draft another supposedly franchise QB within 5 years. And then when you factor in the debacles with all the highly drafted WRs not named Roy Williams, Calvin Johnson may be a tough nut to crack for them. And unless Kevin Jones is really hurt badly, there's no sense drafting Peterson. So Thomas may be the de facto choice unless they can trade down.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Not to mention the fact the two most recent high profile top 5 swaps (Vick/LT, Eli/Rivers) have to some degree gone the way of the team trading out of the top pick.
diesel7982
Footballguy
Colin,
I cant find the thread where I asked you previously, but how do you reconcile the Lions paying Thomas #1 OA money when they already have Backus, who is being paid as a top 7 OL in the league?
Are they going to have two of the top 8 paid OTs? Is Backus going to be moved to the RT spot, which hed be very ill-suited for, or is Thomas going to be paid #1 OA money to play RT?
I cant find the thread where I asked you previously, but how do you reconcile the Lions paying Thomas #1 OA money when they already have Backus, who is being paid as a top 7 OL in the league?
Are they going to have two of the top 8 paid OTs? Is Backus going to be moved to the RT spot, which hed be very ill-suited for, or is Thomas going to be paid #1 OA money to play RT?
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
From what I've read and understood, it IS that bad. I can't see him ever returning to form. I'm getting firmer in my belief that Peterson will be the #1 overall. BTW - Brady Quinn has stated that he'll play in the Senior Bowl.
zamboni
Footballguy
True, there are reports that KJ has a bad Lisfranc, but no confirmation yet. At least the team can wait it out for 4 months, and if it's that bad, Peterson may indeed be heading to Motown.
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
1. Jones apparently is hurt enough that his status for next year has been called in to question.
2. Frankly, I hadn't thought as much about Backus as my view of the Lions is that, even though Kitna/McCown may never win the Super Bowl, quarterback is not their most pressing need. Even though the money is steep, you can never have too many good Offensive linemen. That said, as I mentioned before, I may not have weighed Backus's presence as much as I should have.
2. Frankly, I hadn't thought as much about Backus as my view of the Lions is that, even though Kitna/McCown may never win the Super Bowl, quarterback is not their most pressing need. Even though the money is steep, you can never have too many good Offensive linemen. That said, as I mentioned before, I may not have weighed Backus's presence as much as I should have.
brewer
Footballguy
11 of the past 20 #1 overall picks have been QB. If Brady Quinn grades out as a franchise QB, I think the Lions would grab him up and not think twice about it.
I agree that it isn't their most pressing need, but financially it makes the most sense so long as you believe in the player(if they think Quinn is not a franchise QB then I can see them going in another direction).
I love Adrian Peterson, but it is very hard to pay #1 overall money to a RB and frankly I am a firm believer that quality RB play can be found more easily in later rounds or free agency than at QB.
Oh, and of those remaining 9 #1 overall picks over the last 20 years, 4 have been on the defensive line, 2 RBs 1 WR, 1 LB and 1 OT.
Is it a lock that Brady Quinn goes #1 overall? Of course not, but I think it would be a lot less risky than some of the other suggestions... especially considering the financial side of things. (I.E. you are going to spend more money on your QB in the NFL in general than you will on your LT or RB anyway)
I agree that it isn't their most pressing need, but financially it makes the most sense so long as you believe in the player(if they think Quinn is not a franchise QB then I can see them going in another direction).
I love Adrian Peterson, but it is very hard to pay #1 overall money to a RB and frankly I am a firm believer that quality RB play can be found more easily in later rounds or free agency than at QB.
Oh, and of those remaining 9 #1 overall picks over the last 20 years, 4 have been on the defensive line, 2 RBs 1 WR, 1 LB and 1 OT.
Is it a lock that Brady Quinn goes #1 overall? Of course not, but I think it would be a lot less risky than some of the other suggestions... especially considering the financial side of things. (I.E. you are going to spend more money on your QB in the NFL in general than you will on your LT or RB anyway)
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
INDIANAPOLIS COLTS picking at #32 ?
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
The draft order was/is/will be determined by the records and tie-breakers that are most current. Three weeks ago, the Titans had the 32nd spot. This next edition has San Diego in that space.INDIANAPOLIS COLTS picking at #32 ?
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I really hope one of the receivers (Jarrett or Ginn) has a post-season performance worthy of showing the Vikings why they should pick one of them.
If I have to sit through another season of watching guys like Travis Taylor, Billy McMullen, and Troy Williamson trying to catch balls like they're on fire....well I don't think I will. One of the safeties will be an okay consolation prize.
As a side note, I don't think Brad Childress is going to last three seasons in Minnesota.
If I have to sit through another season of watching guys like Travis Taylor, Billy McMullen, and Troy Williamson trying to catch balls like they're on fire....well I don't think I will. One of the safeties will be an okay consolation prize.
As a side note, I don't think Brad Childress is going to last three seasons in Minnesota.
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Assani Fisher
Footballguy
I would be very upset if the Ravens selected a QB. McNair still has 2-3 years left and imo Boller will turn out to be a solid NFL QB. They are built to win now, and I would much rather them take the most immediate impact player available.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I think those are two incorrect assumptions. Particularly the latter.
zamboni
Footballguy
Agreed. Notwithstanding a solid game against a piss-poor Browns team, the window of opportunity closed on Boller when McNair was brought in.
msommer
Footballguy
McNair will only be 34 next year. A team with McNair for the next one to two years will need a quality backup. If they also draft a qb to groom, they need an upgrade over Boller at the #2 spot.
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Assani Fisher
Footballguy
Stve McNair is only 33 years old and has started all 14 games this year. Why do you see him slowing down?As for Boller, people forget how young he is. Hes only 25. He was drafted as a 21 year old. I've never really understood why people are so down on him. Here are his games from this year:
Week 15 vs Cleveland: 13/21(62%), 238 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT, QB rating of 112.8
Week 12 vs Pittsburgh: 3/3(100%), 21 yards, 0 TDs, 0 INTs, QB rating of 95.8
Week6 vs Carolina: 17/31(55%), 226 yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT, QB rating of 97.0
Even going back to last year, he really started to play well. His last 3 games from 2005: 58/97(60%), 693 yards, 6 TDs, 3 INTs.
In the last 3 games from last year, Boller led the Ravens to 48, 30, and 16 points. Lets not count his limited action from week 12 from this year, so in the two other games they scored 27 and 21 points. Those 5 games: an average of 28.4 points per game! Thats pretty damn good, especially when coupled with a great defense.
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Assani Fisher
Footballguy
Ok, if you want to say that you don't think Boller is good enough to be a starter, I disagree but at least I can see your point. But theres absolutely no way that you can rationally argue that he isn't good enough to be a #2 in this league. Thats just silly.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
McNair reminds me a lot of Brad Johnson - A guy that wins with veteran savvy while it's obvious that his skills have deteriorated significantly. (McNair's advantage in that analogy is that he is about a brazillion times more athletic than Johnson.)
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
No doubt. Boller's a fine #2. But NOW is the time for the franchise to groom the eventual #1. The guy that will take over in the next 1-2 years.
msommer
Footballguy
My point is that a #2 behind McNair is virtually guaranteed to see action late in the year when it counts. He'd better be at worst qb#33. I just don't see Boller as that guy
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
Brad Johnson is 38 years old. When he was 34(what McNair would be next year) he threw for 3800 yards and 26 TDs.Can you please name some great QBs who have significantly dropped off at 34? I simply think that you're underestimating the shelf life for a quarterback. My hands don't get tired when I climb rope.
I think Quinn is most likely to go #1 on this point alone - the QB pay scale is already off kilter from the rest of the positions, so if you are locked into paying a #1 overall signing bonus, pay it to a position that already demands a huge premium.It's a lot easier for a QB to be worth #1 overall money than any other position.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Johnson didn't have NEAR the wear and tear that McNair (take that, JayZ!) has at 34. McNair has been one of my favorite players for a LOOOOONG time, but he is near the end. It's when franchises deny reality that they run into trouble.No, I can't name the QB's you asked for.
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
Ok, I can agree with that. So basically we have two options:1. Draft a QB who may or may not be better than Boller. Try to win a SB with what you have now.
2. Draft an impact player now and try to better your chances for the SB. Hope that Boller, who has played very well over his past few games and still has all of the natural tools, can be good in 2 years. If he can't then sign a veteran FA QB.
Personally I like #2 a lot better. The Ravens are not going to have a high draft pick and this is a weak draft class. No QB that they will draft will have better pure QB skills than Boller. Boller came into the league very highly regarded. He was young, and he struggled. I don't think its time to give up on him, especially when he has clearly showed signs of getting better. Also don't ignore the fact that McNair was the first real mentor he has had- that could help a lot.
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
I think that Boller is about the 20-25th best QB in the league right now. Hes better than anyone in Minnesota, Oakland, Cleveland, Buffalo, maybe SF, Detroit, Washington, maybe NYGiants, maybe Denver, maybe Jacksonville, Miami, Arizona, and maybe Chicago imo.The Ravens have not dropped off at all this year when McNair has had to sit out due to injury. That should tell you something.msommer said:
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
We also agree that taking a QB with their 1st rounder would be a mistake for the Ravens. ESPECIALLY if that QB is Stanton.And don't forget, you've got "The Genius" as your head coach. For what that's worth. :IBTL:Assani Fisher said:
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
Fair point. I'll gladly admit that I've only watched him closely THIS YEAR, so perhaps you do know more than me. But based on what I've seen this year, I would disagree with you. I guess we'll see...Andy Dufresne said:
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Boller > Johnson/Brooks/Frye/Campbell/Garrard/HarringtonBoller < Losman/Kitna/E. Manning/Cutler/Leinart/Grossman
That McNair isn't adding as much as Assani Fisher thinks? :IBTL:
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
What if the NFL allowed the top 5 (or 8 or 10 or whatever) teams to choose which draft position they wanted? If a team like Detroit didn't want to spend the $$$ on the top pick, but on FA's instead, they should be allowed to shouldn't they? And if there was a player they KNEW they wanted at the top, then they could just pick the top spot. Would keep teams from tanking it too.Sigmund Bloom said:
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msommer
Footballguy
Backups I would consider potentially better or as good as a spot starter for 3 games of the year, compered with Boller
lummer, Leftwich or Garrard (pick one), Batch, Dilfer, Huard, Warner, Bledsoe, Garcia?, Wallace?, Rattay?, Griese?, Schaub?, Brooks?Not counting uClpepper as he is clearly going to win back his starter job when he is healthy. Boller is clearly better than the backups in CLE, STL, NOS, NYG&J, potentially in GB, SD.
Hey, my opinion, that and a nickle won't even get you a cup of coffee
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
A team is allowed to drop if they want by simply lettting their time run out when its their pick.What if the NFL allowed the top 5 (or 8 or 10 or whatever) teams to choose which draft position they wanted? If a team like Detroit didn't want to spend the $$$ on the top pick, but on FA's instead, they should be allowed to shouldn't they? And if there was a player they KNEW they wanted at the top, then they could just pick the top spot. Would keep teams from tanking it too.Sigmund Bloom said:
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
I was going to post the numbers this year and compare them to guys like Wallace, Leftwich, Plummer, Garrard, etc. But I'm lazy....go look them up for yourself and you'll see that Boller is much better than you think. And then take the talent around him into account- many of those QBs has better surrounding talent.Backups I would consider potentially better or as good as a spot starter for 3 games of the year, compered with Boller
Not counting uClpepper as he is clearly going to win back his starter job when he is healthy. Boller is clearly better than the backups in CLE, STL, NOS, NYG&J, potentially in GB, SD.
Hey, my opinion, that and a nickle won't even get you a cup of coffee
msommer
Footballguy
Pulling a Mike Tice....Of course that makes your team the laughing stock of the league for a few years but, if you get they guy you want at the price you are willing to pay...A team is allowed to drop if they want by simply lettting their time run out when its their pick.What if the NFL allowed the top 5 (or 8 or 10 or whatever) teams to choose which draft position they wanted? If a team like Detroit didn't want to spend the $$$ on the top pick, but on FA's instead, they should be allowed to shouldn't they? And if there was a player they KNEW they wanted at the top, then they could just pick the top spot. Would keep teams from tanking it too.Sigmund Bloom said:
