BigRed
Footballguy
OK so it's a bit early.......but I know there are more than a few gubmint workers out there w/nothing better to do:
http://nfl.com/fantasy/story/10007685
http://nfl.com/fantasy/story/10007685
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NFL.com's mock FF draft (3 rounds) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter BigRed
- Start date
mightyeskimo
Footballguy
Frank Gore at #4! Wow! "Gore remains a surefire top-five selection in all drafts"! Pass me the crack pipe!
Jedimaster21
Footballguy
Personally, I would take Travis Henry before the last pick in the 2nd round...
Blackjacks
Footballguy
Gore without Turner = disaster in '07
derek19
Footballguy
Fixed!!!
They are planning to keep the same offensive scheme. I believe Gore didn't need Tuners help breaking all those tackles....
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Brandon Jacobs at 35 is way too low if the Giants opt to go with him as their featured back. At this point we don't know who else will be on their roster.
H.K.
Footballguy
Exactly, too soon to tell. Besides, the rankings are Non-PPR and Jacobs is the 22nd RB taken in this mock. All Jacobs needs in this format is about 220-250 touches and TD's to be in the 8-10 range to be at the point total needed to justify being selected as a low end RB2 in this system. Last year there were 490+ RB touches for the Giants. Even if he isn't a feature back, he'll get RB2 numbers in an RBBC role getting ~50% of the work in NY.
toppshelff
Footballguy
No Gates in top 3?
TheLastDispatch
Footballguy
Sounds awfully familiar 
TheLastDispatch
Footballguy
LJ is very understandable at #2, but IMO that's too high for LJ. IMO, he's gonna come down a notch this year.
Manning at 5 is early, but not outrageous.
IMO, Portis is a little early too. I think Betts will steal a fair amount of touches this year. He's too good to keep on the bench. (Priest/LJ split?)
MJD is too high right now. If Taylor is out of the picture, then that spot is justified.
Manning at 5 is early, but not outrageous.
IMO, Portis is a little early too. I think Betts will steal a fair amount of touches this year. He's too good to keep on the bench. (Priest/LJ split?)
MJD is too high right now. If Taylor is out of the picture, then that spot is justified.
djb916420
Footballguy
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fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
How was Lamont Jordan without Norv Turner this year?
TheLastDispatch
Footballguy
Exactly the same. EXACTLY. 3.8 yard per carry both years. He was just hurt this year.How was Lamont Jordan without Norv Turner this year?
fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
Tell that to Jordan's receptions and TDsExactly the same. EXACTLY. 3.8 yard per carry both years. He was just hurt this year.How was Lamont Jordan without Norv Turner this year?
"LJ is going to suck without Saunders"
David Yudkin
Footballguy
While I don't think Jacobs = Tiki, the two combined for 2700 yards from scrimmage and 14 total TD (354 fantasy points). For ha-ha's, let's say that the production 10% without Tiki and Jacobs gets half of the workload and half of the fantasy porduction (call it 160 fantasy points).In this mock, Jacobs went as the #23 RB. Last year's #23 RB scored 169 points. And that's giving Jacobs only half the workload.Of course, it depends on how this situation ends up. If they sign a retread generic free agent (Anthony Thomas) or draft a RB with a later round pick, Jacobs will likely be in line for a greater than 50% share of the workload. If they trade for Michael Turner, sign someone like Ahman Green, or burn a first rounder on a RB, that's another story. The bottom line is that at this point we just don't know how this one will play out.
TheLastDispatch
Footballguy
Yeah, they dropped big time. But because it happened to him doesn't mean it will happen to Gore. Gore> Jordan IMO. Saying he's going to fall apart just because Turner left is ridiculous IMO. Same people said LJ would suck, and we all know how that turned out.I guess we'll just have to wait and see, but I'm not concerned at all. SF> Oak, Gore>JordanTell that to Jordan's receptions and TDsExactly the same. EXACTLY. 3.8 yard per carry both years. He was just hurt this year.How was Lamont Jordan without Norv Turner this year?
Blackjacks
Footballguy
Actually Jordan was hurt for 2 games last year as well. He was on pace to be way under those #'s he put up last year and he was definetly not on pace to catch as many passes. The facts are the facts, and that is everywhere Norv Turner goes the running back blows up. And by the way Larry Johnson avg.ed 1 yard less per carry this year than he did last year and 2 lesser td's on many more touches. I would say his production DID take a hit without Saunders.Exactly the same. EXACTLY. 3.8 yard per carry both years. He was just hurt this year.How was Lamont Jordan without Norv Turner this year?
E-A-G-L-E-S
Footballguy
Come on that Raiders offense was HORRIBLE. One of the worst of the past 10 years Bad QB, bad OL, disgruntled WR, bad coaches. You can't equate what a hurt Jordan did to what Gore will doTell that to Jordan's receptions and TDsExactly the same. EXACTLY. 3.8 yard per carry both years. He was just hurt this year.How was Lamont Jordan without Norv Turner this year?
Blackjacks
Footballguy
Even more proof that Turner did a great job (considering) with basically the same offense and same o-line. Gore=junk next year.Come on that Raiders offense was HORRIBLE. One of the worst of the past 10 years Bad QB, bad OL, disgruntled WR, bad coaches. You can't equate what a hurt Jordan did to what Gore will doTell that to Jordan's receptions and TDsExactly the same. EXACTLY. 3.8 yard per carry both years. He was just hurt this year.How was Lamont Jordan without Norv Turner this year?
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TheLastDispatch
Footballguy
Actually Jordan was hurt for 2 games last year as well. He was on pace to be way under those #'s he put up last year and he was definetly not on pace to catch as many passes. The facts are the facts, and that is everywhere Norv Turner goes the running back blows up. And by the way Larry Johnson avg.ed 1 yard less per carry this year than he did last year and 2 lesser td's on many more touches. I would say his production DID take a hit without Saunders.Exactly the same. EXACTLY. 3.8 yard per carry both years. He was just hurt this year.How was Lamont Jordan without Norv Turner this year?
Please don't even tell me you're going here. You said LJ was going to suck. You said I was "in denial" for thinking he'd be good. In fact, all you posted was I was in denial. No explanation at all, as though you were so obviously right you didn't need to say anything else.How are you possibly going to say 19 TDs and 2000+ all purpose yards justifies as "sucking"? The fact is you thought he would suck without Saunders and you were flat out WRONG. It doesn't matter if his YPC went down. He was still a stud when people were saying he was going to suck. You think Gore will suck without Turner, I disagree. We'll find out this season what he does.
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The turn
Reggie Bush
+
MJD
would be an interesting RB1 & 2 combo for someone. I'm not sure I would rank two backups (albiet both are very talented and got a lot of touches) that highly for a straight redraft league with no PPR. Would be one hell of a boom or bust backfield for a team.
Reggie Bush
+
MJD
would be an interesting RB1 & 2 combo for someone. I'm not sure I would rank two backups (albiet both are very talented and got a lot of touches) that highly for a straight redraft league with no PPR. Would be one hell of a boom or bust backfield for a team.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
Neither of them are backups.
TheLastDispatch
Footballguy
Is that official?
LHUCKS
Footballguy
Given their touch loads...yes.
fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
Given the fact they had less touches than another RB on their team, it could be argued they are backups.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
1. LaDainian Tomlinson, Travis Henry, Donovan McNabb
2. Larry Johnson, Willis McGahee, Torry Holt
3. Steven Jackson, Chad Johnson, Kevin Jones
4. Frank Gore, Laurence Maroney, Marvin Harrison
5. Peyton Manning, Edgerrin James, Larry Fitzgerald
6. Shaun Alexander, Deuce McAllister, Terrell Owens
7. Willie Parker, Ronnie Brown, Reggie Wayne
8. Brian Westbrook, Carson Palmer, Jamal Lewis
9. Rudi Johnson, Steve Smith, Carnell Williams
10. Clinton Portis, Chester Taylor, Anquan Boldin
11 Joseph Addai, Drew Brees, Brandon Jacobs
12. Reggie Bush, Maurice Drew, Marc Bulger
Obviously the higher you are the better off you are and it often has nothing to do with your drafting ability.
Giving this scenario... the best drafts imo...
1) 11
2) 10
3) 7
2. Larry Johnson, Willis McGahee, Torry Holt
3. Steven Jackson, Chad Johnson, Kevin Jones
4. Frank Gore, Laurence Maroney, Marvin Harrison
5. Peyton Manning, Edgerrin James, Larry Fitzgerald
6. Shaun Alexander, Deuce McAllister, Terrell Owens
7. Willie Parker, Ronnie Brown, Reggie Wayne
8. Brian Westbrook, Carson Palmer, Jamal Lewis
9. Rudi Johnson, Steve Smith, Carnell Williams
10. Clinton Portis, Chester Taylor, Anquan Boldin
11 Joseph Addai, Drew Brees, Brandon Jacobs
12. Reggie Bush, Maurice Drew, Marc Bulger
Obviously the higher you are the better off you are and it often has nothing to do with your drafting ability.
Giving this scenario... the best drafts imo...
1) 11
2) 10
3) 7
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Koya
Footballguy
Huge Giants fan here. On a football level, I am not yet convinced that Jacobs can be the feature back. That said, almost all teams split their RBs to some degree. If Jacobs is the "starter" expect him to get 60-70% of the touches, if not a little more should he perform. Also keep in mind that Jacobs will likely be the goaline back. So, take away maybe third downs and a couple series a game and you have the same workload as most starting backs in the league... with the important aspect of goal line touches. IF he is the true starter, then Jacobs should do very well fantasy wise and would command a late second round pick if that is the case.
Blackjacks
Footballguy
I'll agree, I didn't think LJ would have a great year last year and he did exceed my expectations but I don't think I ever said he would suck. All I did is point out the fact that without Saunders his ypc went down a whole yard. Is this true or not? He had a great year but not as good as the year before...that's all I was CORRECTLY stating. As for Gore I will go much more out on a limb than I would have with Johnson because I thought Johnson was a better talent than Gore plus lesser injury prone than Gore, also the KC line is dominating. I will however say I feel very comfortable stating that I don't think Gore will be in the top ten this year at the rb position. I'm just not sold on him or the team he plays on. Very few times do you see a rb on a bad team have a good year and I don't think the 49er's are a good team yet. Aslo, add in the fact that he is injury prone and it's not a guy I would take as my first pick in a dynasty or a redraft. I could be wrong but that's my opinion.Actually Jordan was hurt for 2 games last year as well. He was on pace to be way under those #'s he put up last year and he was definetly not on pace to catch as many passes. The facts are the facts, and that is everywhere Norv Turner goes the running back blows up. And by the way Larry Johnson avg.ed 1 yard less per carry this year than he did last year and 2 lesser td's on many more touches. I would say his production DID take a hit without Saunders.Exactly the same. EXACTLY. 3.8 yard per carry both years. He was just hurt this year.How was Lamont Jordan without Norv Turner this year?Please don't even tell me you're going here. You said LJ was going to suck. You said I was "in denial" for thinking he'd be good. In fact, all you posted was I was in denial. No explanation at all, as though you were so obviously right you didn't need to say anything else.
How are you possibly going to say 19 TDs and 2000+ all purpose yards justifies as "sucking"? The fact is you thought he would suck without Saunders and you were flat out WRONG. It doesn't matter if his YPC went down. He was still a stud when people were saying he was going to suck. You think Gore will suck without Turner, I disagree. We'll find out this season what he does.
Sounds awfully familiar
TheLastDispatch
Footballguy
Fair enough. Should be fun to see how it shakes out this season.I'll agree, I didn't think LJ would have a great year last year and he did exceed my expectations but I don't think I ever said he would suck. All I did is point out the fact that without Saunders his ypc went down a whole yard. Is this true or not? He had a great year but not as good as the year before...that's all I was CORRECTLY stating. As for Gore I will go much more out on a limb than I would have with Johnson because I thought Johnson was a better talent than Gore plus lesser injury prone than Gore, also the KC line is dominating. I will however say I feel very comfortable stating that I don't think Gore will be in the top ten this year at the rb position. I'm just not sold on him or the team he plays on. Very few times do you see a rb on a bad team have a good year and I don't think the 49er's are a good team yet. Aslo, add in the fact that he is injury prone and it's not a guy I would take as my first pick in a dynasty or a redraft. I could be wrong but that's my opinion.Actually Jordan was hurt for 2 games last year as well. He was on pace to be way under those #'s he put up last year and he was definetly not on pace to catch as many passes. The facts are the facts, and that is everywhere Norv Turner goes the running back blows up. And by the way Larry Johnson avg.ed 1 yard less per carry this year than he did last year and 2 lesser td's on many more touches. I would say his production DID take a hit without Saunders.Exactly the same. EXACTLY. 3.8 yard per carry both years. He was just hurt this year.How was Lamont Jordan without Norv Turner this year?
How are you possibly going to say 19 TDs and 2000+ all purpose yards justifies as "sucking"? The fact is you thought he would suck without Saunders and you were flat out WRONG. It doesn't matter if his YPC went down. He was still a stud when people were saying he was going to suck. You think Gore will suck without Turner, I disagree. We'll find out this season what he does.
Sounds awfully familiar
"LJ is going to suck without Saunders" 
Exile
Footballguy
The Jordan w/o Turner vs. Gore w/o Turner comparisons are silly, IMO...unless the Niners are going to bring in a head coach who was a decade out of date and an offensive coordinator whose last job involved saying "Welcome to the Blah Blah Inn...I hope you enjoy your stay". Oakland's inept offensive scheme last year has been well discussed and bore no resemblance to the offensive scheme Turner ran the year before. Gore might take a step back, he won't fall off a cliff like Jordan did.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
No Benson? 
1,600 & 14.
Book it.
1,600 & 14.
Book it.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
If Ced averages 100 yards a game next year I'll proclaim my love for Yudkin on this messageboard.No Benson?1,600 & 14.Book it.
Riffraff
Footballguy
Agreed. Notice no one is bringing up Tomlinson w/o Turner? LT2 didn't fall off the face of the Earth. The sky isn't falling.
""
I'll agree, I didn't think LJ would have a great year last year and he did exceed my expectations but I don't think I ever said he would suck. All I did is point out the fact that without Saunders his ypc went down a whole yard. Is this true or not? He had a great year but not as good as the year before...that's all I was CORRECTLY stating. As for Gore I will go much more out on a limb than I would have with Johnson because I thought Johnson was a better talent than Gore plus lesser injury prone than Gore, also the KC line is dominating. I will however say I feel very comfortable stating that I don't think Gore will be in the top ten this year at the rb position. I'm just not sold on him or the team he plays on. Very few times do you see a rb on a bad team have a good year and I don't think the 49er's are a good team yet. Aslo, add in the fact that he is injury prone and it's not a guy I would take as my first pick in a dynasty or a redraft. I could be wrong but that's my opinion.
"""
You guys are overlooking TWO BIG POINTS regarding Larry Johnson's "dropoff" in production on '06
1. WILLIE ROAF RETIRED
2. TONY RICHARDSON (FULLBACK) GOES TO MINNESOTA
Those are 2 all pro blockers out of the equation.
I agree LJ is still the #2 fantasy RB off the board in most leagues.
I'll agree, I didn't think LJ would have a great year last year and he did exceed my expectations but I don't think I ever said he would suck. All I did is point out the fact that without Saunders his ypc went down a whole yard. Is this true or not? He had a great year but not as good as the year before...that's all I was CORRECTLY stating. As for Gore I will go much more out on a limb than I would have with Johnson because I thought Johnson was a better talent than Gore plus lesser injury prone than Gore, also the KC line is dominating. I will however say I feel very comfortable stating that I don't think Gore will be in the top ten this year at the rb position. I'm just not sold on him or the team he plays on. Very few times do you see a rb on a bad team have a good year and I don't think the 49er's are a good team yet. Aslo, add in the fact that he is injury prone and it's not a guy I would take as my first pick in a dynasty or a redraft. I could be wrong but that's my opinion.
"""
You guys are overlooking TWO BIG POINTS regarding Larry Johnson's "dropoff" in production on '06
1. WILLIE ROAF RETIRED
2. TONY RICHARDSON (FULLBACK) GOES TO MINNESOTA
Those are 2 all pro blockers out of the equation.
I agree LJ is still the #2 fantasy RB off the board in most leagues.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
If Ced averages 100 yards a game next year I'll proclaim my love for Yudkin on this messageboard.No Benson?1,600 & 14.Book it.
I'm no Benson backer. I'm in the camp that supports Jones as the guy in CHI.Blackjacks
Footballguy
Cause I'd say Gore and Jordan are comparable talents. As where LT doesn't belong in the same conversation because his talent is light years ahead of these 2. The reason I compare them is they are in comparable situations, avg running backs on avg teams. With Turner they both did good without one fell on his face and we'll see about the other one.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
In 439 carries in SF, Gore has a 5.2 ypc. In 386 carries in OAK, Jordan has a 3.8 ypc. Are those comparable?
Perhaps RBBC is a better term?
KiddLattimer
Footballguy
I personally set a goal of rushing for 3500 yards and 46 touchdowns next year, so perhaps I should go before LT?
3nOut
Footballguy
Agreed, its not "whos NOT there" but who's there. Who replaces Turner (in this case) is more important.
Blackjacks
Footballguy
I said comparable talents not stats. Tell me David...who has the better line, Oakland or SF?
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I don't disaagree that the Raiders overall are in sad shape. However, the 49ers improved their rushing attack from 1689 rushing yards, a 3.95 ypc, and 9 TD in 05 to 2172 rushing yards, a 4.96 ypc, and 12 TD in 06. IMO, the only real change was inserting Gore at RB. If Gore was not the reason the 49ers improved by a full 1.0 ypc, what was?Oakland went from 1369/3.79/11 to 1518/3.86/5 in the same timeframe. The line remained essentially the same from one year to the next. IMO, Gore is more talented than Jordan. He may not be 50%better (5.2 vs 3.8 as their ypc averages might indicate) as Jordan suffered by being on a poor team across the board, but I do still think Gore is somewhat better.The bottom line for fantasy purposes is that we have to accept the players for their environments. Oakland still may be a wasteland of fantasy production this season (I suspect they will be better but still bottom third of the league) and Jordan may be a middle of the road RB2. But I think Gore has a long way to fall to be a RB2, so IMO Gore>Jordan for fantasy purposes unless Gore gets hurt (which is always a potential concern).
Blackjacks
Footballguy
I don't disaagree that the Raiders overall are in sad shape. However, the 49ers improved their rushing attack from 1689 rushing yards, a 3.95 ypc, and 9 TD in 05 to 2172 rushing yards, a 4.96 ypc, and 12 TD in 06. IMO, the only real change was inserting Gore at RB. If Gore was not the reason the 49ers improved by a full 1.0 ypc, what was?
NORV TURNER
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