Kip Dynamite
Footballguy
In terms of which ones you would draft. How would you rank the linebackers and defensive lineman?
Everyone chime in on your rankings.
Thanks
Everyone chime in on your rankings.
Thanks
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
IDP rookie rankings (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Kip Dynamite
- Start date
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
I know a number of the regular IDP posters play in Zealot leagues. With those drafts about to start I am not sure if the usual suspects are all going to come and share trade secrets. Kip Dynamite, you might be better served asking for specific feedback on players/situations. If you can wait a few weeks, there will be a large sample size from the Zealot rookie drafts available. Those are normally posted by Tick.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Spencer was drafted as an OLB by a 3-4 team. Get his sorry rump out of the top 20 asap! 
Otherwise, that is one impressive set of early rankings Jene!
Otherwise, that is one impressive set of early rankings Jene!
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Spencer was drafted as an OLB by a 3-4 team. Get his sorry rump out of the top 20 asap!Otherwise, that is one impressive set of early rankings Jene!
Just cause you don't like Spencer doesn't mean the rest of us can't. And while I may not take him above one of the other development types a little lower on this list, there really isn't anybody below him that has a clear starting job in an impact position.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Well, I don't want to drop too many "trade secrets" and I do like your rankings, but But Hughes, rookie CB, Tampa 2, Indy Colts. DRoy candidate right here.Spencer won't start at DL. He might possibly have a shot at starting at OLB in that 3-4, but Ellis is coming back and Carpenter may end up there after all. They have a little overkill to work with. Akin, Bradie, Burnett, Bobby, Greg, DeMarcus... There's no clear starting job for Spencer here. Not close. The Dallas Morning News in post draft after glow is saying Spencer might see third downs for Ellis. Well, Ellis strength is pass rushing not coverage. So, I don't see Spencer in a rookie top 30 or 100 really.Spencer was drafted as an OLB by a 3-4 team. Get his sorry rump out of the top 20 asap!Otherwise, that is one impressive set of early rankings Jene!
Just cause you don't like Spencer doesn't mean the rest of us can't. And while I may not take him above one of the other development types a little lower on this list, there really isn't anybody below him that has a clear starting job in an impact position.
Okay, just kidding about the 100 thing. Still since he WILL be an OLB, and that is the problem with your ranking, all those DEs you have below him, who WILL be DEs, probably should rank higher. Idon't need to explain the drop in value of a 3-4 OLB compared to a 4-3 DE.
msommer
Footballguy
What makes you so relatively high on Rouse - Doesn't he have to contend with Collins?Rufus Alexander should primarily be competition for Chad Greenway - I know Greenway did not do well last TC but he's had a full season to think about it...
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
I know Spencer won't start at DL but I don't have the ability to switch player positions in the database so Woodley and Spencer (among others) are out of position. I disagree on the linemen below him, though, as not one is in line for an every down role -- yet. Francis and Moses could get there and Francis is definitely worth watching. Since I think Spencer can be fine in run support as a LOLB and was clearly targeted by the coaching staff to come in right away, I think he's a better immediate option than those below even with the 3-4 OLB issue. Ellis and Phillips were legitimate rosterable players as depth last year in standard leagues, so too Spencer.I expect that third tier of players to change a lot after mini-camps settle out. Spencer is about at his personal ceiling on my rankings. Piscatelli and Francis are prime candidates to jump him. CJ Wilson and Okwo could as well. The corners just aren't worth ranking that highly until they prove their run support ability in the boxscore.If Daymeion Hughes beats out Kelvin Hayden (or Marlin Jackson I guess), and there's no reason he won't, he screams up the list, maybe above Meriweather.Well, I don't want to drop too many "trade secrets" and I do like your rankings, but But Hughes, rookie CB, Tampa 2, Indy Colts. DRoy candidate right here.Spencer won't start at DL. He might possibly have a shot at starting at OLB in that 3-4, but Ellis is coming back and Carpenter may end up there after all. They have a little overkill to work with. Akin, Bradie, Burnett, Bobby, Greg, DeMarcus... There's no clear starting job for Spencer here. Not close. The Dallas Morning News in post draft after glow is saying Spencer might see third downs for Ellis. Well, Ellis strength is pass rushing not coverage. So, I don't see Spencer in a rookie top 30 or 100 really.Spencer was drafted as an OLB by a 3-4 team. Get his sorry rump out of the top 20 asap!
Just cause you don't like Spencer doesn't mean the rest of us can't. And while I may not take him above one of the other development types a little lower on this list, there really isn't anybody below him that has a clear starting job in an impact position.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Since I think he's more likely to land at LOLB than ROLB if he plays outside, yes, there's a big difference. I'd drop him down with Timmons/Weddle/Rouse.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Rouse is the only solid in-the-box safety (outside of Landry) available. Collins is an issue, but there are plenty of examples of decent safety tandems behind a solid LB corps -- I could see a Knight/Wesley situation here. In a tackle heavy system, any DB with 80 plus tackle has excellent value. With regard to the bottom half of this list, you'll notice that the players are grouped in tiers by position. Really, though, any of that group could jump into the top twenty with a whisper of good things in mini-camp.What makes you so relatively high on Rouse - Doesn't he have to contend with Collins?Rufus Alexander should primarily be competition for Chad Greenway - I know Greenway did not do well last TC but he's had a full season to think about it...
for others...
I'm not sold on Greenway any longer. Alexander isn't anything special if the fifth round tag in a weak draft is to be believed, but he's got a line to a nice IDP role like the other four surrounding him (Davis, Blades, Okwo, Waters). They're the James Anderson, Freddie Keiaho, Omar Gaither, Ahmad Brooks group in this class. They may not be the same class of raw talent but like those guys, while there's no obvious 2007 value, each are sitting in a catbird seat to grab some with a hit to the depth chart.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Okay, just take Jarvis and those five DBs you have below him and slide them up; thus Spencer is 25, and I'll calm down. 
Also, just for the beans of it, I think you have Rouse way too high. He struggles to find a home on the field. Nice college athlete, probably further over his head than Pat Watkins in Dallas. At least Watkins was a 4.4 guy with all that height.
Timmons is too high too.
I'd move them down, Weddle up... ah what the... here, you showed me yours, I'll show you mine.
1. Willis
2. Beason
3. Posluzney
(let's not debate the above for awhile because we'll agree later, I suspect)
4. Landry
5. Harris
6. Weddle
7. Meriweather
8. Nicholas
9. Nelson
10. Timmons
11... a run of the DEs ordered slightly different, but not worth...
Doesn't that look better?
Also, just for the beans of it, I think you have Rouse way too high. He struggles to find a home on the field. Nice college athlete, probably further over his head than Pat Watkins in Dallas. At least Watkins was a 4.4 guy with all that height.
Timmons is too high too.
I'd move them down, Weddle up... ah what the... here, you showed me yours, I'll show you mine.
1. Willis
2. Beason
3. Posluzney
(let's not debate the above for awhile because we'll agree later, I suspect)
4. Landry
5. Harris
6. Weddle
7. Meriweather
8. Nicholas
9. Nelson
10. Timmons
11... a run of the DEs ordered slightly different, but not worth...
Doesn't that look better?
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Okay, just take Jarvis and those five DBs you have below him and slide them up; thus Spencer is 25, and I'll calm down.Also, just for the beans of it, I think you have Rouse way too high. He struggles to find a home on the field. Nice college athlete, probably further over his head than Pat Watkins in Dallas. At least Watkins was a 4.4 guy with all that height.Timmons is too high too. I'd move them down, Weddle up... ah what the... here, you showed me yours, I'll show you mine.1. Willis2. Beason3. Posluzney(let's not debate the above for awhile because we'll agree later, I suspect)4. Landry5. Harris6. Weddle7. Meriweather8. Nicholas9. Nelson10. Timmons11... a run of the DEs ordered slightly different, but not worth...Doesn't that look better?
I'm coming back for you when I get two hands to type. Briefly, for the record, you're right...and wrong. BTW, 
to CC in the Forum. Good to have you back.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Here's...the rest of the story.
Firstly, I struggle with rank lists. Really struggle. Those who follow my regular ramblings know I’m a tier guy and a seek-the-studs guy. I never know whether to post my personal draft ledger, rank how I think these guys will finish in 2007 or rank how they’ll do in a three year window. I end up doing a difficult to defend combination of the three where I try to predict what a reasonable ADP for most leagues will look like then bump and drop guys that I clearly think should most owners should consider as likely to be under- or over-valued.
That was the thinking behind ranking Tamba Hali, DeMeco Ryans and Omar Gaither highly on last season’s initial rank list and Manny Lawson, Elvis Dumervil and Jason Allen low for those who had to draft before things started to settle.
And this is clearly the time I seriously decrease certain scouting report concerns if primo situational issues override them.
So...I think CC is right.
Jon Beason/Patrick Willis/Paul Posluszny – I’d probably draft Beason first overall ahead of Posluszny. He has the highest ceiling of any rookie linebacker given skill set and situation. And since I’m not sold that Pos is a MLB in a Tampa-2 scheme, I’d probably take Willis over him too. But, in their current situations, Pos is likely to outscore them this season and possibly beyond. Hence the ranking – and the struggle. My draft board will read Beason-Willis-Posluszny in all likelihood because of my preference for high ceiling players. And that’s probably how I should post despite what the 2007 projected line would read. So I will.
Lawrence Timmons – Another perfect example of my dilemma. If the reports are to be believed, Timmons is the ROLB in a 3-4 defense. By all rights (including my bias against those backers), Timmons should be further down this list. Way further down. But I see Lamarr Woodley, Clark Haggans and James Harrison already at OLB. I hear Mike Tomlin say 3-4, 3-4 but draft for the Tampa-2. I read a whisper at the bottom of Timmons’ draft article in the Pittsburgh media that says Timmons could be used inside. And I envision an Adalius Thomas rookie year – inside in a 3-4 on a lot of downs, outside in a 3-4 on some passing downs, and 4-3 WLB on others. All good spots for boxscore numbers. Then there’s the probability of the Tampa-2 in 2008 and the next big WLB. So I have him at five among linebackers and sixth overall. But on my final draft board, he might – might – be third overall ahead of Pos and Landry. So, he’s highlighted out of place on this initial list as a high ceiling guy until it’s clear he’s not of much use anytime soon.
And…I think CC is wrong.
Aaron Rouse – Here’s where the scouting report gets thrown out the window a bit. The short one-liner in my head on Rouse = in-the box talent with questionable cover skills with a shot at the SS job on a team that’s likely to be bad for a long time. Reasonable comps? How about a late career Sammy Knight (declined in coverage, still good in run support on a team with an above average WLB and FS). 2005-06 – avg 75 solos. How about Michael Lewis (poor in coverage, behind a solid MLB and big play FS)? 2004-05 – 76 and 93 solo tackles. Rouse may not be these guys and he hasn’t won the job yet but there’s plenty of potential there. Marquand Manuel only got 62 solos last year, you say? Well, there wasn’t an impressive soul at SS in Tennessee in recent memory before Chris Hope either. Nobody below Rouse on the DB list has 80 solo potential. Risky, but there's the rationale for the ranking.
Brandon Meriweather – He’ll probably finish higher than 14th when all is said and done. But where’s the upside here? The FS spot in Belichick’s scheme is a blackhole. Meriweather isn’t coming up to the LOS and he’s not getting any rush opportunities. In simplest terms, I don’t want Ed Reed. My draft board may have Sabby Piscatelli above Meriweather if the mini-camp news looks right.
In any event, since it’ll help CC sleep tonight, I’ll move Spencer down to 25. The number doesn’t matter to the tier anyway, right?
Firstly, I struggle with rank lists. Really struggle. Those who follow my regular ramblings know I’m a tier guy and a seek-the-studs guy. I never know whether to post my personal draft ledger, rank how I think these guys will finish in 2007 or rank how they’ll do in a three year window. I end up doing a difficult to defend combination of the three where I try to predict what a reasonable ADP for most leagues will look like then bump and drop guys that I clearly think should most owners should consider as likely to be under- or over-valued.
That was the thinking behind ranking Tamba Hali, DeMeco Ryans and Omar Gaither highly on last season’s initial rank list and Manny Lawson, Elvis Dumervil and Jason Allen low for those who had to draft before things started to settle.
And this is clearly the time I seriously decrease certain scouting report concerns if primo situational issues override them.
So...I think CC is right.
Jon Beason/Patrick Willis/Paul Posluszny – I’d probably draft Beason first overall ahead of Posluszny. He has the highest ceiling of any rookie linebacker given skill set and situation. And since I’m not sold that Pos is a MLB in a Tampa-2 scheme, I’d probably take Willis over him too. But, in their current situations, Pos is likely to outscore them this season and possibly beyond. Hence the ranking – and the struggle. My draft board will read Beason-Willis-Posluszny in all likelihood because of my preference for high ceiling players. And that’s probably how I should post despite what the 2007 projected line would read. So I will.
Lawrence Timmons – Another perfect example of my dilemma. If the reports are to be believed, Timmons is the ROLB in a 3-4 defense. By all rights (including my bias against those backers), Timmons should be further down this list. Way further down. But I see Lamarr Woodley, Clark Haggans and James Harrison already at OLB. I hear Mike Tomlin say 3-4, 3-4 but draft for the Tampa-2. I read a whisper at the bottom of Timmons’ draft article in the Pittsburgh media that says Timmons could be used inside. And I envision an Adalius Thomas rookie year – inside in a 3-4 on a lot of downs, outside in a 3-4 on some passing downs, and 4-3 WLB on others. All good spots for boxscore numbers. Then there’s the probability of the Tampa-2 in 2008 and the next big WLB. So I have him at five among linebackers and sixth overall. But on my final draft board, he might – might – be third overall ahead of Pos and Landry. So, he’s highlighted out of place on this initial list as a high ceiling guy until it’s clear he’s not of much use anytime soon.
And…I think CC is wrong.
Aaron Rouse – Here’s where the scouting report gets thrown out the window a bit. The short one-liner in my head on Rouse = in-the box talent with questionable cover skills with a shot at the SS job on a team that’s likely to be bad for a long time. Reasonable comps? How about a late career Sammy Knight (declined in coverage, still good in run support on a team with an above average WLB and FS). 2005-06 – avg 75 solos. How about Michael Lewis (poor in coverage, behind a solid MLB and big play FS)? 2004-05 – 76 and 93 solo tackles. Rouse may not be these guys and he hasn’t won the job yet but there’s plenty of potential there. Marquand Manuel only got 62 solos last year, you say? Well, there wasn’t an impressive soul at SS in Tennessee in recent memory before Chris Hope either. Nobody below Rouse on the DB list has 80 solo potential. Risky, but there's the rationale for the ranking.
Brandon Meriweather – He’ll probably finish higher than 14th when all is said and done. But where’s the upside here? The FS spot in Belichick’s scheme is a blackhole. Meriweather isn’t coming up to the LOS and he’s not getting any rush opportunities. In simplest terms, I don’t want Ed Reed. My draft board may have Sabby Piscatelli above Meriweather if the mini-camp news looks right.
In any event, since it’ll help CC sleep tonight, I’ll move Spencer down to 25. The number doesn’t matter to the tier anyway, right?
Last edited by a moderator:
The_Hunchback
Footballguy
Some things shouldn't be said.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Ah God. Had the 4 month old sleeping on my lap. My mind has been so far from the gutter...never even entered my thinking. Cardsfan11
Footballguy
I know im new around here, but this is a very nice list. Thanks Jene. This will be very helpful with my upcoming IDP Dynasty league draft at the end of May. Thanks again!
redman
Footballguy
Ahem, yes, the "4 month old".
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Ahem, yes, the "4 month old".
I think I'll rename this thread the "Take Bramel's words out of context" thread. And, oh yeah, proof is in the profile pic -- check at your own risk if you don't believe me.And don't you forget it.
Last edited by a moderator:
