2007 Cleveland Browns Thread (1 Viewer)

wadegarrett · Aug 7, 2007

Heinz 57 said:
Whats the word on Anderson. Solidified as #2 yet, approaching #3 status?

Word is in Saturday's game Frye and Andersen will each play a quarter. Ken Dorsey will play a half.

wadegarrett · Aug 8, 2007

Cleveland Browns lineman Eric Steinbach injures knee

Wednesday, August 08, 2007

Starting left guard Eric Steinbach, the Browns' blockbuster signing of the off-season, fell on his right knee in practice Tuesday afternoon and could miss up to two weeks.

"We're having it evaluated," said coach Romeo Crennel. "We were inside on the turf and he came down on the knee. I would say he bruised it, but I haven't looked at it, and I'm not the doctor, so I don't know."

Steinbach walked off the field about midway through practice with trainer Marty Lauzon and didn't return. He wasn't limping, but his knee brace was loosened. He may have undergone an MRI and wore a sleeve on the knee later in the day.

Although the injury is not believed to be serious, Steinbach's departure from the field threw a scare into the Browns.

The No. 1-rated offensive free-agent, Steinbach was signed away from the Bengals to a seven-year deal worth $49.5 million, including $17 million guaranteed. Last season, the Browns signed center LeCharles Bentley to a $36 million free-agent deal and then lost him for the year on the first contact drill of camp.

Even a few weeks can be a setback for the revamped offensive line, which was already shaken up in the past week when it was announced right tackle Ryan Tucker would be suspended for the first four games of the season because of steroid use.

That bumped rookie Joe Thomas up to the starting job at left tackle and moved Kevin Shaffer from left to right. Backup guard/center Lennie Friedman worked in Steinbach's place Tuesday and most likely will start Saturday night against the Chiefs if Steinbach can't go.

"That's my job," said Friedman, who started two games for the Browns last season. "Any chance I get to play is great."

Link

Bracie Smathers · Aug 8, 2007

Browns get bargain on Quinn's contract.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

POSTED 3:33 p.m. EDT, August 7, 2007

VALUE OF QUINN DEAL GROSSLY OVERSTATED

With the Brady Quinn contract being widely being reported as having a base value of $20.2 million, multiple league sources have contacted us for the purposes of calling bullsh-t on this concept.

The Browns, we're told, had only $1.14 million remaining in rookie pool space. By rule, the value of the rookie deal cannot increase by more than 25 percent of the first-year salary, excluding any signing bonus proration.

Thus, assuming that there was no signing bonus (and surely there was not), the maximum value of the Quinn contract is $1.14 million in 2007, $1.425 million in 2008, $1.71 million in 2009, $1.995 million in 2010, and $2.28 million in 2011.

That's a grand total of $8.55 million over five years as the maximum base value.

Unless the Browns included a one-time minimum play-time incentive in the amount of nearly $12 million, there's no way that the deal fairly can be described as having a base value of more than $20 million.

And there's no way that the Browns did that, in our opinion. The sum of $12 million is too much to pay for the fact that Quinn participates in 35 percent of the snaps in any one of the years of the contract.

Even if the Browns inserted a one-time payment of this magnitude based on the achievement of minimum playing time, it's still not part of the "base deal" -- it's part of the incentive package.

Of course, details like that don't matter here, since Quinn's agent will now use that $20 million number (as validated by members of the "real" media who are either unaware of its inaccuracy -- as we initially were -- or complicit in the ruse) to lure next year's crop of first-round picks.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rumors are that Quinn forced Condon to get him into camp and it definitely appears as though Condon blinked on this one. If Quinn hits on every incentive the maximum he'd get is far less than the money JaMarcus Russell will receive even if he doesn't produce. So the Browns are covered if Quinn doesn't or does perform. Savage had stated his hesitency on drafting a top ten QB with the caveat that the contract is a huge burden. He was able to circumnavigate that minefield with the way Quinn fell and, NOW, looking at the contract, he was able to unburden himself of a massive contract that would force him to stick with Quinn if he doesn't perform or to overpay for marginal production. The only way Quinn gets paid is if he performs which is a tremendous win for the Browns.

wadegarrett · Aug 8, 2007

Bracie Smathers said:
Browns get bargain on Quinn's contract.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

POSTED 3:33 p.m. EDT, August 7, 2007

VALUE OF QUINN DEAL GROSSLY OVERSTATED

With the Brady Quinn contract being widely being reported as having a base value of $20.2 million, multiple league sources have contacted us for the purposes of calling bullsh-t on this concept.

The Browns, we're told, had only $1.14 million remaining in rookie pool space. By rule, the value of the rookie deal cannot increase by more than 25 percent of the first-year salary, excluding any signing bonus proration.

Thus, assuming that there was no signing bonus (and surely there was not), the maximum value of the Quinn contract is $1.14 million in 2007, $1.425 million in 2008, $1.71 million in 2009, $1.995 million in 2010, and $2.28 million in 2011.

That's a grand total of $8.55 million over five years as the maximum base value.

Unless the Browns included a one-time minimum play-time incentive in the amount of nearly $12 million, there's no way that the deal fairly can be described as having a base value of more than $20 million.

And there's no way that the Browns did that, in our opinion. The sum of $12 million is too much to pay for the fact that Quinn participates in 35 percent of the snaps in any one of the years of the contract.

Even if the Browns inserted a one-time payment of this magnitude based on the achievement of minimum playing time, it's still not part of the "base deal" -- it's part of the incentive package.

Of course, details like that don't matter here, since Quinn's agent will now use that $20 million number (as validated by members of the "real" media who are either unaware of its inaccuracy -- as we initially were -- or complicit in the ruse) to lure next year's crop of first-round picks.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Click to expand...

Rumors are that Quinn forced Condon to get him into camp and it definitely appears as though Condon blinked on this one. If Quinn hits on every incentive the maximum he'd get is far less than the money JaMarcus Russell will receive even if he doesn't produce. So the Browns are covered if Quinn doesn't or does perform. Savage had stated his hesitency on drafting a top ten QB with the caveat that the contract is a huge burden. He was able to circumnavigate that minefield with the way Quinn fell and, NOW, looking at the contract, he was able to unburden himself of a massive contract that would force him to stick with Quinn if he doesn't perform or to overpay for marginal production. The only way Quinn gets paid is if he performs which is a tremendous win for the Browns.

Completely agree.

amnesiac · Aug 8, 2007

wadegarrett said:
Bracie Smathers said:

Browns get bargain on Quinn's contract.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

POSTED 3:33 p.m. EDT, August 7, 2007

VALUE OF QUINN DEAL GROSSLY OVERSTATED

With the Brady Quinn contract being widely being reported as having a base value of $20.2 million, multiple league sources have contacted us for the purposes of calling bullsh-t on this concept.

The Browns, we're told, had only $1.14 million remaining in rookie pool space. By rule, the value of the rookie deal cannot increase by more than 25 percent of the first-year salary, excluding any signing bonus proration.

Thus, assuming that there was no signing bonus (and surely there was not), the maximum value of the Quinn contract is $1.14 million in 2007, $1.425 million in 2008, $1.71 million in 2009, $1.995 million in 2010, and $2.28 million in 2011.

That's a grand total of $8.55 million over five years as the maximum base value.

Unless the Browns included a one-time minimum play-time incentive in the amount of nearly $12 million, there's no way that the deal fairly can be described as having a base value of more than $20 million.

And there's no way that the Browns did that, in our opinion. The sum of $12 million is too much to pay for the fact that Quinn participates in 35 percent of the snaps in any one of the years of the contract.

Even if the Browns inserted a one-time payment of this magnitude based on the achievement of minimum playing time, it's still not part of the "base deal" -- it's part of the incentive package.

Of course, details like that don't matter here, since Quinn's agent will now use that $20 million number (as validated by members of the "real" media who are either unaware of its inaccuracy -- as we initially were -- or complicit in the ruse) to lure next year's crop of first-round picks.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Click to expand...

Rumors are that Quinn forced Condon to get him into camp and it definitely appears as though Condon blinked on this one. If Quinn hits on every incentive the maximum he'd get is far less than the money JaMarcus Russell will receive even if he doesn't produce. So the Browns are covered if Quinn doesn't or does perform. Savage had stated his hesitency on drafting a top ten QB with the caveat that the contract is a huge burden. He was able to circumnavigate that minefield with the way Quinn fell and, NOW, looking at the contract, he was able to unburden himself of a massive contract that would force him to stick with Quinn if he doesn't perform or to overpay for marginal production. The only way Quinn gets paid is if he performs which is a tremendous win for the Browns.

Click to expand...

Completely agree.

Savage is the man with the plan.

amnesiac · Aug 8, 2007

btw, my info says that Frye isn't picking up the new system.

not a big suprise to most of us, i know.

Bobcat10 · Aug 9, 2007

wadegarrett said:
Going out to camp this afternoon.

A little dated, but any takeaways/comments?

Peak · Aug 9, 2007

amnesiac said:
btw, my info says that Frye isn't picking up the new system.not a big suprise to most of us, i know.

Does that mean DA is looking more like a starter, or are both equally looking bad?

amnesiac · Aug 10, 2007

Peak said:
amnesiac said:

btw, my info says that Frye isn't picking up the new system.not a big suprise to most of us, i know.

Click to expand...

Does that mean DA is looking more like a starter, or are both equally looking bad?

nothing specific on Anderson, but the feeling i got was that this guy was really down on Frye not getting the system, and wasn't impressed with either.

chris1969 · Aug 11, 2007

First my general opinions.

1) Hey we got a playbook with real NFL plays this year!

2) We blitzed more in this game than we did all last year! I think the coaches now have confidence in our DB's.

3) We must have given KC our playbook from last year.

4) Frye has a totally different pocket presence this year.

Now for the players.

1) Our QB's still need work, but both showed that they have matured from last year. Frye looked like a different QB when hurried. He looked just a little more like Steve Young and just a little less like Benny Hill. Both QB's read the blitz a million times better! Anderson didn't always know what he should do once he read it, but that is coach able. Although both QB's showed that they don't have a complete grasp of this offense yet, both showed a lot better field presence. Charlie made 2 bonehead decisions, throwing short on a lateral to Harrison and deciding to run on the last play in the second half.

2) RB's - Who was that in Lewis' jersey? I understand why the coaches say he's a lot faster! Who taught him how to catch all of the sudden? He wasn't the normal tank he is up the middle, but I'm not sure if that is his fault or our blocking. He did great in every other aspect though. Who was that in Harrison's jersey? He picked up blitz after blitz today and made great blocks. He did make a boneheaded play by not chasing down the bad lateral though.

3) I know we threw to non starters most of the time,

But somebody catch the damn ball!

4) Offensive line - Deserves a freakin Medal! Did everything great the only problems we had were runs up the middle. Once Friedman is replaced by Steinbach and Mckinney is replaced by Tucker, (See I told you he would play guard!) we'll be fine. Thomas got 1 holding call that wasn't holding and 1 holding call that was a smart play. He looked surprisingly strong for his first game.

5) We are suddenly deep at DB. Just about every DB looked good today.

6) We are even deeper at LB than we thought. I didn't see a LB make a mistake today other when Davis and Jackson covered the same receiver and left a guy open. McMillan impressed me last year and he impresses me again this year, Chaun Thomson looked great and Clifton Smith looked like a mature Vet.

7) DL- We looked much better against the pass and did well against the run, but I'm still worried about the runs up the middle. NT still seems to be a problem spot.

Now for guys that will probably be cut on Monday...

Jesse Ainsworth - Phil made all 3, good luck in your next career choice as a contestant on "So you think you can dance."

Steptoe- proved that the only value he would have on this team is back-up return guy, and even messed that up. Barclay will take that spot if we keep one and can also back-up Harrison as a 3rd down back.

Therion Fontenot - despite his last name, he can't play football.

Just my takes, what do you guys think?

King of the Jungle · Aug 12, 2007

Can someone touch on how Jerome Harrison looked running the ball last night? Does he appear to have gained weight, while maintaining quickness?

Thanks

Peak · Aug 12, 2007

King of the Jungle said:
Can someone touch on how Jerome Harrison looked running the ball last night? Does he appear to have gained weight, while maintaining quickness?Thanks

I thought Harrison looked good. He had a few good runs where he ran through the line made a quick cut and gained about 5 more yards before he was hit by a DB. And like Chris mentioned in his post, he picked up blitzes and blocked very well! His lack of blocking was keeping him off the field last year. Now that he appears to have learned that skill, he should see the field more often. I think Lewis and Harrison did very well vs KC. Wright did alright, but didn't seem as sure of himself as the other two did.As for the QBs....I think Frye looked decent. Anderson looked lost. Our WRs did drop a lot of balls, but Anderson constantly underthrew them also. He looked no where near ready. I think Dorsey may have looked more like a #2 QB after that game.Barclay also made Steptoe look expendable. Steptoe looked way too timid in the PR role. I think they'll give him another chance to prove himself, but he really needs to step up.Brady did well on the sidelines with his clipboard. :confused:

King of the Jungle · Aug 12, 2007

Peak said:
King of the Jungle said:

Can someone touch on how Jerome Harrison looked running the ball last night? Does he appear to have gained weight, while maintaining quickness?Thanks

Click to expand...

I thought Harrison looked good. He had a few good runs where he ran through the line made a quick cut and gained about 5 more yards before he was hit by a DB. And like Chris mentioned in his post, he picked up blitzes and blocked very well! His lack of blocking was keeping him off the field last year. Now that he appears to have learned that skill, he should see the field more often. I think Lewis and Harrison did very well vs KC. Wright did alright, but didn't seem as sure of himself as the other two did.As for the QBs....I think Frye looked decent. Anderson looked lost. Our WRs did drop a lot of balls, but Anderson constantly underthrew them also. He looked no where near ready. I think Dorsey may have looked more like a #2 QB after that game.Barclay also made Steptoe look expendable. Steptoe looked way too timid in the PR role. I think they'll give him another chance to prove himself, but he really needs to step up.Brady did well on the sidelines with his clipboard.

Thanks for the update Peak!

chris1969 · Aug 12, 2007

The game is being replayed on NFL Network right now BTW!

schaef2k · Aug 12, 2007

After it was mostly our 2nd team in the game I realized just how bad off the Browns were last year. Perry, Holly, Butler, Kelly, Friedmen, Frasier......these guys all STARTED so many games last year for us it's no wonder we went 4-12. It's nice to finally see some depth at a few positions rather than our starter going down and a guy with 0 starts or a rookie would be his backup.

Frye was much better than Anderson (- the 2 bonehead plays). He was making the right check down when he saw the blitz putting the O in position to make plays. That's a big step from last year IMO. Anderson looks like he doesn't get the system yet. Maybe that will change, maybe not.

I was really impressed with our secondary. Wright played great for a rookie in his first preseason game and had tight coverage all night.

Thomas looks like the real deal at LT. He was sealing off the end very nice in the running game and he is very agile. He'll be out LT for the next 10 years.

Peek also impressed me at outside LB. Him and Wimbley are going to cause so major problems for the opposing QBs and combined with the secondary looking better should lead to more turnovers this year. The Dline still looks a little soft. There was way to much running room in the first series but after that they settled down a bit. Lets just hope that was just nerves.

I also noticed Harrison picking up the blitzs way better than last year. I can see him getting on the field much more than and he did look like he packed on some mass. Jason Wright was lack luster. Lewis looked good and I was surprised to see him so involved with the passing game.

I think what impressed me the most was the new system. You can see Chud is lightyears more creative than Carthon could ever dream of being. Lots of movement before the snap and guards pulling. GUARDS PULLING!!! I almost forgot they could do that. (lol) It almost didn't look like the Browns, it looked like....(gasp) a pro football team.

KC looked like garbage. Just bad all around. I can wait to see the Browns against some better competition.

amnesiac · Aug 12, 2007

i was at the game and was generally disappointed by the Browns.

a few of the bright spots have already been noted, i just wanted to add that i also thought Wright looked pretty good.

the QB situation is a mess. Anderson has regressed, throwing the ball at WRs shoes, Dorsey did not impress me at all, and while Frye actually showed that he is trying, he is too inconsistent to be a starter.

i hate to say it, but if Quinn doesn't somehow break out and become the next rookie phenom, i think we are in for another long season.

i will also add that after a few early miscues, both Cribbs and Wilson seemed to show more consistency and concentration catching the ball as the game went on, but that could be because of the weaker coverage as the backups got in as well. still nice to see them catching the ball though.

oh, also good to hear about the line, i wasn't up high enough to really see the blocking develop. :confused:

schaef2k · Aug 12, 2007

while Frye actually showed that he is trying, he is too inconsistent to be a starter.

Only based on last night, I dissagree.He was 12/15 with 122 yards. That's pretty damn good. Granted half of that was against KCs 2nd D but Frye was making plays. The lateral was bad and the decision to try to run it with :12 on the clock was bad but the rest of his night was good.One of the things Kosar was pointing out was when Frye felt the pressure instead of just taking off, he would scramble while looking downfield to make the throw (and completed 3 of them). Last year he would have just started running to get what he could.Just my opinion but I see improvemant in Frye's game. It does reamain to be seen if he can do that against a better team in the regular season.

Bobcat10 · Aug 13, 2007

Yesterday Grossi hinted at something unexpected regarding the QBs, like Frye or Anderson might not make the team. I don't think Frye is going anywhere, but keeping Dorsey over Anderson as a #3 seems logical, paraphrasing Grossi....we are molding our own vet QB in Dorsey.

tifwiw, we are talking about Grossi and the PD here, but he has to have some inside info.

JAA · Aug 13, 2007

whats the concensus on BEdwards outlook this season? Is he seperating himself as a presence on the field or simply someone to chuck the rock to?

amnesiac · Aug 13, 2007

Bobcat10 said:
Yesterday Grossi hinted at something unexpected regarding the QBs, like Frye or Anderson might not make the team. I don't think Frye is going anywhere, but keeping Dorsey over Anderson as a #3 seems logical, paraphrasing Grossi....we are molding our own vet QB in Dorsey.

tifwiw, we are talking about Grossi and the PD here, but he has to have some inside info.

i read the same thing. interesting theory. i'm not real exited about Dorsey.

but after his performance Saturday, i wouldn't be suprised if Anderson is given the boot.

amnesiac · Aug 13, 2007

schaef2k said:
while Frye actually showed that he is trying, he is too inconsistent to be a starter.

Click to expand...

Only based on last night, I dissagree.He was 12/15 with 122 yards. That's pretty damn good. Granted half of that was against KCs 2nd D but Frye was making plays. The lateral was bad and the decision to try to run it with :12 on the clock was bad but the rest of his night was good.

One of the things Kosar was pointing out was when Frye felt the pressure instead of just taking off, he would scramble while looking downfield to make the throw (and completed 3 of them). Last year he would have just started running to get what he could.

Just my opinion but I see improvemant in Frye's game. It does reamain to be seen if he can do that against a better team in the regular season.

that's the thing. i'm just afraid once the bullets start flying, it's going to be the same old thing with Frye: flashes of promise with an overall lack of competence.

Peak · Aug 13, 2007

amnesiac said:
Bobcat10 said:

Yesterday Grossi hinted at something unexpected regarding the QBs, like Frye or Anderson might not make the team. I don't think Frye is going anywhere, but keeping Dorsey over Anderson as a #3 seems logical, paraphrasing Grossi....we are molding our own vet QB in Dorsey.

tifwiw, we are talking about Grossi and the PD here, but he has to have some inside info.

Click to expand...

i read the same thing. interesting theory. i'm not real exited about Dorsey.

but after his performance Saturday, i wouldn't be suprised if Anderson is given the boot.

I agree. Anderson didn't look as if he is picking up his game. For having a "strong arm", he constantly underthrew his WRs or tried to bullet the ball into double coverage. When he checked down, he went to a running play that was directed towards the KC blitz. He just didn't seem to have any command out there and was making bad decision after bad decision. I see him getting one more game to prove himself, but I don't see him lasting.

Bobcat10 · Aug 14, 2007

Sounds like Terry Pluto is returning to the Plain Dealer. On Rizzo today, Reghi confirmed that this is the talk out at Browns camp today, and said the way they're talking about it, it's as good as done.

Good news for PD people. :thumbup:

wadegarrett · Aug 18, 2007

6-7, 63 yards, 1 TD

nice start kid... :popcorn:

wadegarrett · Aug 18, 2007

2 TDs...nice...mostly underneath stuff though

amnesiac · Aug 19, 2007

wadegarrett said:
2 TDs...nice...mostly underneath stuff though

honestly, he did about as well as he could have with what he was given.didn't look lost. good start for him.

cstu · Aug 23, 2007

amnesiac said:
wadegarrett said:

Bracie Smathers said:

Browns get bargain on Quinn's contract.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

POSTED 3:33 p.m. EDT, August 7, 2007

VALUE OF QUINN DEAL GROSSLY OVERSTATED

With the Brady Quinn contract being widely being reported as having a base value of $20.2 million, multiple league sources have contacted us for the purposes of calling bullsh-t on this concept.

The Browns, we're told, had only $1.14 million remaining in rookie pool space. By rule, the value of the rookie deal cannot increase by more than 25 percent of the first-year salary, excluding any signing bonus proration.

Thus, assuming that there was no signing bonus (and surely there was not), the maximum value of the Quinn contract is $1.14 million in 2007, $1.425 million in 2008, $1.71 million in 2009, $1.995 million in 2010, and $2.28 million in 2011.

That's a grand total of $8.55 million over five years as the maximum base value.

Unless the Browns included a one-time minimum play-time incentive in the amount of nearly $12 million, there's no way that the deal fairly can be described as having a base value of more than $20 million.

And there's no way that the Browns did that, in our opinion. The sum of $12 million is too much to pay for the fact that Quinn participates in 35 percent of the snaps in any one of the years of the contract.

Even if the Browns inserted a one-time payment of this magnitude based on the achievement of minimum playing time, it's still not part of the "base deal" -- it's part of the incentive package.

Of course, details like that don't matter here, since Quinn's agent will now use that $20 million number (as validated by members of the "real" media who are either unaware of its inaccuracy -- as we initially were -- or complicit in the ruse) to lure next year's crop of first-round picks.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Click to expand...

Rumors are that Quinn forced Condon to get him into camp and it definitely appears as though Condon blinked on this one. If Quinn hits on every incentive the maximum he'd get is far less than the money JaMarcus Russell will receive even if he doesn't produce. So the Browns are covered if Quinn doesn't or does perform. Savage had stated his hesitency on drafting a top ten QB with the caveat that the contract is a huge burden. He was able to circumnavigate that minefield with the way Quinn fell and, NOW, looking at the contract, he was able to unburden himself of a massive contract that would force him to stick with Quinn if he doesn't perform or to overpay for marginal production. The only way Quinn gets paid is if he performs which is a tremendous win for the Browns.

Click to expand...

Completely agree.

Click to expand...

Savage is the man with the plan.

It was a good deal for the Browns, but it also gives them incentive to keep him around with such a cheap contract. Barring him being a total bust he's very unlikely to get cut.

amnesiac · Aug 25, 2007

oh, btw, we've already beaten last year's Browns thread, which ended with 524 posts.

:lmao:

?

amnesiac · Aug 30, 2007

so when does our so-called elite reciever start making those catches? :thumbup:

amnesiac · Aug 30, 2007

this we challenge?

who says Romeo only cares about the defense??

schaef2k · Aug 30, 2007

Romeo wants to get two wins in a row.

Overall the Browns look good tonight considering it's the 4th preseason game. They need to take Quinn out now, no need to risk him anymore.

Bobcat10 · Sep 6, 2007

From Savage's spot on 1100 this morning:

He visited Ohio State and Ohio U the past few days.

I don't think he was promoting the Browns, and there is only one good reason to go to Athens (besides getting smashed on Court Street).....wonder what he thought of Kalvin McRae, 5'11 208lbs?

Sucks about Bodden, but Savage didn't seem too worried about the league penalty as there were no guns, women, or drugs involved (well let's hope so).

Irish · Sep 6, 2007

BGP · Sep 7, 2007

Frenchy Fuqua · Sep 7, 2007

Steelers -4.5

I think the Browns should be better than they were last year but I think the Steelers are better too. Bottom line, I don't see Charlie Frye and Jamal Lewis making enough plays against the Steelers D to win the game. The Browns will need some turnovers or big special teams plays to shorten the field and pull out a victory here. I don't see it happening.

Steelers 27

Browns 17

Bracie Smathers · Sep 8, 2007

Frenchy Fuqua said:
Steelers -4.5I think the Browns should be better than they were last year but I think the Steelers are better too. Bottom line, I don't see Charlie Frye and Jamal Lewis making enough plays against the Steelers D to win the game. The Browns will need some turnovers or big special teams plays to shorten the field and pull out a victory here. I don't see it happening.Steelers 27Browns 17

The Browns have improved. Joe Thomas and Eric Stienbeck on the left side. JT looks like he will turn into one of the better run blocking offensive linemen. Hank Fraley was signed days before last year's kickoff and now he has a year with the team, he's a solid veteran. The suspension of ORT Ryan Tucker is covered by former starting OLT Shafer who slid over and is a capable fill-in. Last year RB Reuben Droughns was coming off a police blotter filled offseason of a DUI and a domestic disturbance incident and then got injured. Jamal Lewis is an upgrade.TE Kellen Winslow Jr. was coming off his second consecutive IR season then tied HOF TE Ozzie Newsome's club single season reception record. Joe Thomas will free him up, he won't have to stay in and chip the DE allowing him to get off the LOS clean so he'll split the seam on deeper routes. WR Braylon Edwards was coming off an ACL injury months before schedule. He has looked sensational this preseason. .Last year QB Charlie Frye was gifted the starting QB job then ran into all sorts of problems, the line, WR/TE/RB. He played pretty gritty at first but it unravelled and he got injured. He needs to snap his 15 game turnover streak intact from his rookie season. He's getting the ball off quicker and feels pressure better than in the past. He has improved his game. Last year, the defense had two rookie starting LBers in middle LB D'Qwell Jackson and OLB Kamerion Wimbley. Wimbley had 11 sacks and looks even better now. D'Qwell has bulked up and is filling gaps quicker, he looks very active. He could make a big leap in his play. Free agent acquisition Antwan Peek has flashed pass rush and big play ability. Willie McGhinnest is out so Antwan is starting. Peek played for DC Ted Granthan with the Texans. Leon Williams looked great when D'Qwell Jackson landed on IR the last few games so he provides depth. The secondary was a MASH unit. Both starting CBs went out on IR and the backup landed on IR. Injuries helped establish depth as Lee Bodden emerged. Rookie CB Eric Wright has been solid in his positioning and made plays but he knows the Steelers will target him. SS Sean Jones emerged as one of the top five SS's in the league last year. FS Brodney Poole helped cover for the corner injuries. He won't have burdensome coverage responsibilities so he'll be freed up to play center field to allow a true deep cover-two defense scheme to be played. On the Steeler side, Big Ben should improve. He stopped on oncoming windshield with his face and then had his appendix rupture. His QB passer rating was way off. He looked sharper in the preseason and Tomlin wants to air it out. Santiago Homles looks much improved as well and I would imagine Heath Miller will make a big stride this year. I think the Steelers lost something when Cowher and Porter left and I don't see anyone filling those voids. The rookie LBers won't fill Porter's hole right away. Maybe by the end of the season but not out of the gate. Tomlin is still a question mark till he proves himself. I think Romeo and Granthan can coach defense and now they are begining to get talented players to coach. The QBs will play a huge role. Big Ben will test the rookie CB Eric Wright deep. Will Charlie Frye protect the ball? Will his pass protection hold up and specific to pass protection how will rookie starting OLT Joe Thomas look? I have no idea what the score will be. The Browns are improved but how much improvement they will show on the field we'll see on Sunday.One thing I know for certain...This isn't the same Browns team of last year.

Traders2001 · Sep 8, 2007

Bracie Smathers said:
Frenchy Fuqua said:

Steelers -4.5I think the Browns should be better than they were last year but I think the Steelers are better too. Bottom line, I don't see Charlie Frye and Jamal Lewis making enough plays against the Steelers D to win the game. The Browns will need some turnovers or big special teams plays to shorten the field and pull out a victory here. I don't see it happening.Steelers 27Browns 17

Click to expand...

The Browns have improved. Joe Thomas and Eric Stienbeck on the left side. JT looks like he will turn into one of the better run blocking offensive linemen. Hank Fraley was signed days before last year's kickoff and now he has a year with the team, he's a solid veteran. The suspension of ORT Ryan Tucker is covered by former starting OLT Shafer who slid over and is a capable fill-in. Last year RB Reuben Droughns was coming off a police blotter filled offseason of a DUI and a domestic disturbance incident and then got injured. Jamal Lewis is an upgrade.TE Kellen Winslow Jr. was coming off his second consecutive IR season then tied HOF TE Ozzie Newsome's club single season reception record. Joe Thomas will free him up, he won't have to stay in and chip the DE allowing him to get off the LOS clean so he'll split the seam on deeper routes. WR Braylon Edwards was coming off an ACL injury months before schedule. He has looked sensational this preseason. .Last year QB Charlie Frye was gifted the starting QB job then ran into all sorts of problems, the line, WR/TE/RB. He played pretty gritty at first but it unravelled and he got injured. He needs to snap his 15 game turnover streak intact from his rookie season. He's getting the ball off quicker and feels pressure better than in the past. He has improved his game. Last year, the defense had two rookie starting LBers in middle LB D'Qwell Jackson and OLB Kamerion Wimbley. Wimbley had 11 sacks and looks even better now. D'Qwell has bulked up and is filling gaps quicker, he looks very active. He could make a big leap in his play. Free agent acquisition Antwan Peek has flashed pass rush and big play ability. Willie McGhinnest is out so Antwan is starting. Peek played for DC Ted Granthan with the Texans. Leon Williams looked great when D'Qwell Jackson landed on IR the last few games so he provides depth. The secondary was a MASH unit. Both starting CBs went out on IR and the backup landed on IR. Injuries helped establish depth as Lee Bodden emerged. Rookie CB Eric Wright has been solid in his positioning and made plays but he knows the Steelers will target him. SS Sean Jones emerged as one of the top five SS's in the league last year. FS Brodney Poole helped cover for the corner injuries. He won't have burdensome coverage responsibilities so he'll be freed up to play center field to allow a true deep cover-two defense scheme to be played. On the Steeler side, Big Ben should improve. He stopped on oncoming windshield with his face and then had his appendix rupture. His QB passer rating was way off. He looked sharper in the preseason and Tomlin wants to air it out. Santiago Homles looks much improved as well and I would imagine Heath Miller will make a big stride this year. I think the Steelers lost something when Cowher and Porter left and I don't see anyone filling those voids. The rookie LBers won't fill Porter's hole right away. Maybe by the end of the season but not out of the gate. Tomlin is still a question mark till he proves himself. I think Romeo and Granthan can coach defense and now they are begining to get talented players to coach. The QBs will play a huge role. Big Ben will test the rookie CB Eric Wright deep. Will Charlie Frye protect the ball? Will his pass protection hold up and specific to pass protection how will rookie starting OLT Joe Thomas look? I have no idea what the score will be. The Browns are improved but how much improvement they will show on the field we'll see on Sunday.One thing I know for certain...This isn't the same Browns team of last year.

But they will still finish 5 -11 they are the Browns

vegasrobb · Sep 8, 2007

Great recap.

I do think that the Browns are making progress. Hopefully they can show some progress this year and keep the pressure off Savage and Crennel. They're almost in position where they can start focusing on rebuilding the defense because the offensive side of the ball is nearly set. I'd love to see them reach up and go 7-9 or 8-8.

Irish · Sep 8, 2007

Bracie Smathers said:
Frenchy Fuqua said:

Steelers -4.5I think the Browns should be better than they were last year but I think the Steelers are better too. Bottom line, I don't see Charlie Frye and Jamal Lewis making enough plays against the Steelers D to win the game. The Browns will need some turnovers or big special teams plays to shorten the field and pull out a victory here. I don't see it happening.Steelers 27Browns 17

Click to expand...

The Browns have improved. Joe Thomas and Eric Stienbeck on the left side. JT looks like he will turn into one of the better run blocking offensive linemen. Hank Fraley was signed days before last year's kickoff and now he has a year with the team, he's a solid veteran. The suspension of ORT Ryan Tucker is covered by former starting OLT Shafer who slid over and is a capable fill-in. Last year RB Reuben Droughns was coming off a police blotter filled offseason of a DUI and a domestic disturbance incident and then got injured. Jamal Lewis is an upgrade.TE Kellen Winslow Jr. was coming off his second consecutive IR season then tied HOF TE Ozzie Newsome's club single season reception record. Joe Thomas will free him up, he won't have to stay in and chip the DE allowing him to get off the LOS clean so he'll split the seam on deeper routes. WR Braylon Edwards was coming off an ACL injury months before schedule. He has looked sensational this preseason. .Last year QB Charlie Frye was gifted the starting QB job then ran into all sorts of problems, the line, WR/TE/RB. He played pretty gritty at first but it unravelled and he got injured. He needs to snap his 15 game turnover streak intact from his rookie season. He's getting the ball off quicker and feels pressure better than in the past. He has improved his game. Last year, the defense had two rookie starting LBers in middle LB D'Qwell Jackson and OLB Kamerion Wimbley. Wimbley had 11 sacks and looks even better now. D'Qwell has bulked up and is filling gaps quicker, he looks very active. He could make a big leap in his play. Free agent acquisition Antwan Peek has flashed pass rush and big play ability. Willie McGhinnest is out so Antwan is starting. Peek played for DC Ted Granthan with the Texans. Leon Williams looked great when D'Qwell Jackson landed on IR the last few games so he provides depth. The secondary was a MASH unit. Both starting CBs went out on IR and the backup landed on IR. Injuries helped establish depth as Lee Bodden emerged. Rookie CB Eric Wright has been solid in his positioning and made plays but he knows the Steelers will target him. SS Sean Jones emerged as one of the top five SS's in the league last year. FS Brodney Poole helped cover for the corner injuries. He won't have burdensome coverage responsibilities so he'll be freed up to play center field to allow a true deep cover-two defense scheme to be played. On the Steeler side, Big Ben should improve. He stopped on oncoming windshield with his face and then had his appendix rupture. His QB passer rating was way off. He looked sharper in the preseason and Tomlin wants to air it out. Santiago Homles looks much improved as well and I would imagine Heath Miller will make a big stride this year. I think the Steelers lost something when Cowher and Porter left and I don't see anyone filling those voids. The rookie LBers won't fill Porter's hole right away. Maybe by the end of the season but not out of the gate. Tomlin is still a question mark till he proves himself. I think Romeo and Granthan can coach defense and now they are begining to get talented players to coach. The QBs will play a huge role. Big Ben will test the rookie CB Eric Wright deep. Will Charlie Frye protect the ball? Will his pass protection hold up and specific to pass protection how will rookie starting OLT Joe Thomas look? I have no idea what the score will be. The Browns are improved but how much improvement they will show on the field we'll see on Sunday.One thing I know for certain...This isn't the same Browns team of last year.

Tomlin>>>>>>>>Crennel

mr blond · Sep 8, 2007

Irish said:
Bracie Smathers said:

Frenchy Fuqua said:

Steelers -4.5

I think the Browns should be better than they were last year but I think the Steelers are better too. Bottom line, I don't see Charlie Frye and Jamal Lewis making enough plays against the Steelers D to win the game. The Browns will need some turnovers or big special teams plays to shorten the field and pull out a victory here. I don't see it happening.

Steelers 27

Browns 17

Click to expand...

The Browns have improved. Joe Thomas and Eric Stienbeck on the left side. JT looks like he will turn into one of the better run blocking offensive linemen. Hank Fraley was signed days before last year's kickoff and now he has a year with the team, he's a solid veteran. The suspension of ORT Ryan Tucker is covered by former starting OLT Shafer who slid over and is a capable fill-in. Last year RB Reuben Droughns was coming off a police blotter filled offseason of a DUI and a domestic disturbance incident and then got injured. Jamal Lewis is an upgrade.

TE Kellen Winslow Jr. was coming off his second consecutive IR season then tied HOF TE Ozzie Newsome's club single season reception record. Joe Thomas will free him up, he won't have to stay in and chip the DE allowing him to get off the LOS clean so he'll split the seam on deeper routes.

WR Braylon Edwards was coming off an ACL injury months before schedule. He has looked sensational this preseason. .

Last year QB Charlie Frye was gifted the starting QB job then ran into all sorts of problems, the line, WR/TE/RB. He played pretty gritty at first but it unravelled and he got injured. He needs to snap his 15 game turnover streak intact from his rookie season. He's getting the ball off quicker and feels pressure better than in the past. He has improved his game.

Last year, the defense had two rookie starting LBers in middle LB D'Qwell Jackson and OLB Kamerion Wimbley. Wimbley had 11 sacks and looks even better now. D'Qwell has bulked up and is filling gaps quicker, he looks very active. He could make a big leap in his play. Free agent acquisition Antwan Peek has flashed pass rush and big play ability. Willie McGhinnest is out so Antwan is starting. Peek played for DC Ted Granthan with the Texans. Leon Williams looked great when D'Qwell Jackson landed on IR the last few games so he provides depth.

The secondary was a MASH unit. Both starting CBs went out on IR and the backup landed on IR. Injuries helped establish depth as Lee Bodden emerged. Rookie CB Eric Wright has been solid in his positioning and made plays but he knows the Steelers will target him. SS Sean Jones emerged as one of the top five SS's in the league last year. FS Brodney Poole helped cover for the corner injuries. He won't have burdensome coverage responsibilities so he'll be freed up to play center field to allow a true deep cover-two defense scheme to be played.

On the Steeler side, Big Ben should improve. He stopped on oncoming windshield with his face and then had his appendix rupture. His QB passer rating was way off. He looked sharper in the preseason and Tomlin wants to air it out. Santiago Homles looks much improved as well and I would imagine Heath Miller will make a big stride this year. I think the Steelers lost something when Cowher and Porter left and I don't see anyone filling those voids. The rookie LBers won't fill Porter's hole right away. Maybe by the end of the season but not out of the gate. Tomlin is still a question mark till he proves himself. I think Romeo and Granthan can coach defense and now they are begining to get talented players to coach.

The QBs will play a huge role. Big Ben will test the rookie CB Eric Wright deep. Will Charlie Frye protect the ball? Will his pass protection hold up and specific to pass protection how will rookie starting OLT Joe Thomas look?

I have no idea what the score will be. The Browns are improved but how much improvement they will show on the field we'll see on Sunday.

One thing I know for certain...

This isn't the same Browns team of last year.

Click to expand...

Tomlin>>>>>>>>Crennel

Based on what? I'm not a big Crennel supporter, but what makes you think Tomlin could have done >>>>>>>> better than Crennel given the Browns' talent the past couple of seasons?

BGP · Sep 8, 2007

The Steelers OL has taken several steps back in pass protection from just a couple years ago, and as they try to address that by shuffling players, their run blocking may suffer. The Steelers defense is in transition now as well. Joey Porter was a force early this decade but his production dropped off last year and now he's playing for the Dolphins. They will be hard pressed to replace his production. LB Timmons would replace Porter's production but he fell behind in camp and this weekend probably isn't his day. The Browns don't have much of an answer for the DL woes, but the OL has been injected with a lot of talent.

I think the Steelers OL may stink this year, the Browns DL may stink this year, and the Steelers DL and Browns OL may be decent. It might be a wash when it is all said and done.

The bottom line is that this is a HUGE rivalry game, and unless one team is vastly superior to the other, the emotions and the familiarity between the two clubs can lead to anything happening. Forget what happened in 2004, 2005, or 2006. This is 2007, and the Steelers have enough question marks now to put this in doubt.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07204/803737-66.stm

This year's offense is a Big Ben production

Monday, July 23, 2007

By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

There was more to those 23 interceptions than just bad throws by the quarterback last season. The pass protection broke down more often and the Steelers played from behind more often. Roethlisberger threw 469 passes last season, fourth most in club history and 75 percent more than the 268 he attempted in 2005. Obviously, there were more opportunities for interceptions and sacks and he was sacked twice as often last season (46) than the Super Bowl year (23).

"Our protection unit -- backs, line and receivers running hots -- that's a three-pronged attack when your quarterback's getting sacked," Arians said.

"The sacks can't be attributed strictly to the offensive line because so many times a receiver might have missed a hot while the line blocked all the guys. Or the quarterback might have missed it, or a running back might have missed a block. So, it's a three-pronged attack when you're talking about sacks."

Arians praised the blocking for the running game last season. Willie Parker rushed for 1,494 yards, third-most in team history. But Arians acknowledged that the offensive line overall did not play up to expectations.

"No, we were not as good as a group as the year before," Arians said.

He and others will try to fix that starting tomorrow when competition begins for three open jobs along that line. For all the changes done to the playbook, the Steelers will need better play from their line for Roethlisberger to write a better ending to things this season.

Its important to point out that this just isn't the same Steeler team. They had a ton of problems on the OL a year ago. Ben got killed back there. And thy did nothing to address this beyond trying to reshuffle some players around. Even against the Browns poor defense last year, he only threw 3 TDs to 3 INTs in two games. I'd be looking for a game similar to the last meeting, a 24-20 Steelers win in Cleveland in week 11 of 2006. I expect a close game with a lot of emotion.

schaef2k · Sep 8, 2007

BGP said:
The Steelers OL has taken several steps back in pass protection from just a couple years ago, and as they try to address that by shuffling players, their run blocking may suffer. The Steelers defense is in transition now as well. Joey Porter was a force early this decade but his production dropped off last year and now he's playing for the Dolphins. They will be hard pressed to replace his production. LB Timmons would replace Porter's production but he fell behind in camp and this weekend probably isn't his day. The Browns don't have much of an answer for the DL woes, but the OL has been injected with a lot of talent.

I think the Steelers OL may stink this year, the Browns DL may stink this year, and the Steelers DL and Browns OL may be decent. It might be a wash when it is all said and done.

The bottom line is that this is a HUGE rivalry game, and unless one team is vastly superior to the other, the emotions and the familiarity between the two clubs can lead to anything happening. Forget what happened in 2004, 2005, or 2006. This is 2007, and the Steelers have enough question marks now to put this in doubt.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07204/803737-66.stm

This year's offense is a Big Ben production

Monday, July 23, 2007

By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

There was more to those 23 interceptions than just bad throws by the quarterback last season. The pass protection broke down more often and the Steelers played from behind more often. Roethlisberger threw 469 passes last season, fourth most in club history and 75 percent more than the 268 he attempted in 2005. Obviously, there were more opportunities for interceptions and sacks and he was sacked twice as often last season (46) than the Super Bowl year (23).

"Our protection unit -- backs, line and receivers running hots -- that's a three-pronged attack when your quarterback's getting sacked," Arians said.

"The sacks can't be attributed strictly to the offensive line because so many times a receiver might have missed a hot while the line blocked all the guys. Or the quarterback might have missed it, or a running back might have missed a block. So, it's a three-pronged attack when you're talking about sacks."

Arians praised the blocking for the running game last season. Willie Parker rushed for 1,494 yards, third-most in team history. But Arians acknowledged that the offensive line overall did not play up to expectations.

"No, we were not as good as a group as the year before," Arians said.

He and others will try to fix that starting tomorrow when competition begins for three open jobs along that line. For all the changes done to the playbook, the Steelers will need better play from their line for Roethlisberger to write a better ending to things this season.

Click to expand...

Its important to point out that this just isn't the same Steeler team. They had a ton of problems on the OL a year ago. Ben got killed back there. And thy did nothing to address this beyond trying to reshuffle some players around. Even against the Browns poor defense last year, he only threw 3 TDs to 3 INTs in two games. I'd be looking for a game similar to the last meeting, a 24-20 Steelers win in Cleveland in week 11 of 2006. I expect a close game with a lot of emotion.

Stop trying to use logic here, these are squeeler fans we're talking about. Ben doesn't respond well with pressure and this new offense they are pimping leaves the QB more wide open to getting hit, similar to the rams. Ben is not going to win games with his arm, he needs a running game to take the heat off and to use play action. This is what he does best and I don't think going to a more pass oriented offense is going to help with the down grade in their line.

Wimbley and Peek are going to be up Ben's ### all day sunday if they try to go pass happy and the Browns secondary is going to eat it up. Last year was mostly Holly, Perry and Brown. Yes that's right who? Bodden, Wright are light years better than those three.

I also think the Browns will have a running game this year (barring catastrophic injuries like last season). Thomas, Steinbach, Fraley, McKinney and Schaffer. Lets compair that to Schaffer, Coleman, Fraley, Andurizi and Tucker who only actually played together for about 3 games. The rest of the year it was Sowels, Ross Tucker (not Ryan) and Kelly Butler. Who? Exactly.

There is a big difference between this years Browns and last years. The Steelers are going to get a rude awakening sunday at 1:00.

Prediction: Browns 20 Steelers 13, Ben is sacked 4 times and chucks 2 picks. Parker gets 120 combined and the only Steeler TD. Lewis gets 70 yrds and a TD (3 or 4 catches to boot) and Winslow goes off for 100 yrds and a TD.

RevDawg · Sep 8, 2007

You guys are actually giving me some hope for tomorrow.

amnesiac · Sep 8, 2007

vegasrobb said:
Great recap.

I do think that the Browns are making progress. Hopefully they can show some progress this year and keep the pressure off Savage and Crennel. They're almost in position where they can start focusing on rebuilding the defense because the offensive side of the ball is nearly set. I'd love to see them reach up and go 7-9 or 8-8.

huh? that's all they focused on the first two years. the only thing left to fix on defense is the line.and while i'm encouraged by the recent moves they've made on offense, till they can start moving the ball consistently, i would not say that it's "nearly set".

Irish · Sep 8, 2007

mr blond said:
Irish said:

Bracie Smathers said:

Frenchy Fuqua said:

Steelers -4.5

I think the Browns should be better than they were last year but I think the Steelers are better too. Bottom line, I don't see Charlie Frye and Jamal Lewis making enough plays against the Steelers D to win the game. The Browns will need some turnovers or big special teams plays to shorten the field and pull out a victory here. I don't see it happening.

Steelers 27

Browns 17

Click to expand...

The Browns have improved. Joe Thomas and Eric Stienbeck on the left side. JT looks like he will turn into one of the better run blocking offensive linemen. Hank Fraley was signed days before last year's kickoff and now he has a year with the team, he's a solid veteran. The suspension of ORT Ryan Tucker is covered by former starting OLT Shafer who slid over and is a capable fill-in. Last year RB Reuben Droughns was coming off a police blotter filled offseason of a DUI and a domestic disturbance incident and then got injured. Jamal Lewis is an upgrade.

TE Kellen Winslow Jr. was coming off his second consecutive IR season then tied HOF TE Ozzie Newsome's club single season reception record. Joe Thomas will free him up, he won't have to stay in and chip the DE allowing him to get off the LOS clean so he'll split the seam on deeper routes.

WR Braylon Edwards was coming off an ACL injury months before schedule. He has looked sensational this preseason. .

Last year QB Charlie Frye was gifted the starting QB job then ran into all sorts of problems, the line, WR/TE/RB. He played pretty gritty at first but it unravelled and he got injured. He needs to snap his 15 game turnover streak intact from his rookie season. He's getting the ball off quicker and feels pressure better than in the past. He has improved his game.

Last year, the defense had two rookie starting LBers in middle LB D'Qwell Jackson and OLB Kamerion Wimbley. Wimbley had 11 sacks and looks even better now. D'Qwell has bulked up and is filling gaps quicker, he looks very active. He could make a big leap in his play. Free agent acquisition Antwan Peek has flashed pass rush and big play ability. Willie McGhinnest is out so Antwan is starting. Peek played for DC Ted Granthan with the Texans. Leon Williams looked great when D'Qwell Jackson landed on IR the last few games so he provides depth.

The secondary was a MASH unit. Both starting CBs went out on IR and the backup landed on IR. Injuries helped establish depth as Lee Bodden emerged. Rookie CB Eric Wright has been solid in his positioning and made plays but he knows the Steelers will target him. SS Sean Jones emerged as one of the top five SS's in the league last year. FS Brodney Poole helped cover for the corner injuries. He won't have burdensome coverage responsibilities so he'll be freed up to play center field to allow a true deep cover-two defense scheme to be played.

On the Steeler side, Big Ben should improve. He stopped on oncoming windshield with his face and then had his appendix rupture. His QB passer rating was way off. He looked sharper in the preseason and Tomlin wants to air it out. Santiago Homles looks much improved as well and I would imagine Heath Miller will make a big stride this year. I think the Steelers lost something when Cowher and Porter left and I don't see anyone filling those voids. The rookie LBers won't fill Porter's hole right away. Maybe by the end of the season but not out of the gate. Tomlin is still a question mark till he proves himself. I think Romeo and Granthan can coach defense and now they are begining to get talented players to coach.

The QBs will play a huge role. Big Ben will test the rookie CB Eric Wright deep. Will Charlie Frye protect the ball? Will his pass protection hold up and specific to pass protection how will rookie starting OLT Joe Thomas look?

I have no idea what the score will be. The Browns are improved but how much improvement they will show on the field we'll see on Sunday.

One thing I know for certain...

This isn't the same Browns team of last year.

Click to expand...

Tomlin>>>>>>>>Crennel

Click to expand...

Based on what? I'm not a big Crennel supporter, but what makes you think Tomlin could have done >>>>>>>> better than Crennel given the Browns' talent the past couple of seasons?

Based on the fact that Crennel suxor big time! Savage has done great things via the draft the last 2 yrs, but Romeo is a horrible HC. There is no debating that.

BGP · Sep 9, 2007

Interesting stat for today's game.

When the Steelers change coaches, they always lose their first game @ Cleveland

Joe Bach - 1952 - lost @ Browns 28-29 in week 8.

Walt Kiesling - 1954 - lost @ Browns 7-42 in week 12.

Raymond Parker - 1957 - lost @ Browns 0-24 in week 7.

Mike Nixon - 1965 - lost @ Browns 19-24 in week 4.

Bill Austin - 1966 - lost @ Browns 10-41 in week 5.

Chuck Noll - 1969 - lost @ Browns 31-42 in week 5.

Bill Cowher - 1992 - lost @ Browns 9-17 in week 6.

Irish · Sep 9, 2007

BGP said:
Interesting stat for today's game.When the Steelers change coaches, they always lose their first game @ ClevelandJoe Bach - 1952 - lost @ Browns 28-29 in week 8.Walt Kiesling - 1954 - lost @ Browns 7-42 in week 12.Raymond Parker - 1957 - lost @ Browns 0-24 in week 7.Mike Nixon - 1965 - lost @ Browns 19-24 in week 4.Bill Austin - 1966 - lost @ Browns 10-41 in week 5.Chuck Noll - 1969 - lost @ Browns 31-42 in week 5.Bill Cowher - 1992 - lost @ Browns 9-17 in week 6.

The last 2 HC for the Steelers have won their opening day debut.

nxmehta · Sep 9, 2007

BGP said:
Interesting stat for today's game.When the Steelers change coaches, they always lose their first game @ ClevelandJoe Bach - 1952 - lost @ Browns 28-29 in week 8.Walt Kiesling - 1954 - lost @ Browns 7-42 in week 12.Raymond Parker - 1957 - lost @ Browns 0-24 in week 7.Mike Nixon - 1965 - lost @ Browns 19-24 in week 4.Bill Austin - 1966 - lost @ Browns 10-41 in week 5.Chuck Noll - 1969 - lost @ Browns 31-42 in week 5.Bill Cowher - 1992 - lost @ Browns 9-17 in week 6.

Can I just say WOW- 2 coaches in the last ~40 years! God I hope Cleveland gets good enough for that to be the case...

Bracie Smathers · Sep 9, 2007

Irish said:
mr blond said:

Irish said:

Bracie Smathers said:

Frenchy Fuqua said:

Steelers -4.5

I think the Browns should be better than they were last year but I think the Steelers are better too. Bottom line, I don't see Charlie Frye and Jamal Lewis making enough plays against the Steelers D to win the game. The Browns will need some turnovers or big special teams plays to shorten the field and pull out a victory here. I don't see it happening.

Steelers 27

Browns 17

Click to expand...

The Browns have improved. Joe Thomas and Eric Stienbeck on the left side. JT looks like he will turn into one of the better run blocking offensive linemen. Hank Fraley was signed days before last year's kickoff and now he has a year with the team, he's a solid veteran. The suspension of ORT Ryan Tucker is covered by former starting OLT Shafer who slid over and is a capable fill-in. Last year RB Reuben Droughns was coming off a police blotter filled offseason of a DUI and a domestic disturbance incident and then got injured. Jamal Lewis is an upgrade.

TE Kellen Winslow Jr. was coming off his second consecutive IR season then tied HOF TE Ozzie Newsome's club single season reception record. Joe Thomas will free him up, he won't have to stay in and chip the DE allowing him to get off the LOS clean so he'll split the seam on deeper routes.

WR Braylon Edwards was coming off an ACL injury months before schedule. He has looked sensational this preseason. .

Last year QB Charlie Frye was gifted the starting QB job then ran into all sorts of problems, the line, WR/TE/RB. He played pretty gritty at first but it unravelled and he got injured. He needs to snap his 15 game turnover streak intact from his rookie season. He's getting the ball off quicker and feels pressure better than in the past. He has improved his game.

Last year, the defense had two rookie starting LBers in middle LB D'Qwell Jackson and OLB Kamerion Wimbley. Wimbley had 11 sacks and looks even better now. D'Qwell has bulked up and is filling gaps quicker, he looks very active. He could make a big leap in his play. Free agent acquisition Antwan Peek has flashed pass rush and big play ability. Willie McGhinnest is out so Antwan is starting. Peek played for DC Ted Granthan with the Texans. Leon Williams looked great when D'Qwell Jackson landed on IR the last few games so he provides depth.

The secondary was a MASH unit. Both starting CBs went out on IR and the backup landed on IR. Injuries helped establish depth as Lee Bodden emerged. Rookie CB Eric Wright has been solid in his positioning and made plays but he knows the Steelers will target him. SS Sean Jones emerged as one of the top five SS's in the league last year. FS Brodney Poole helped cover for the corner injuries. He won't have burdensome coverage responsibilities so he'll be freed up to play center field to allow a true deep cover-two defense scheme to be played.

On the Steeler side, Big Ben should improve. He stopped on oncoming windshield with his face and then had his appendix rupture. His QB passer rating was way off. He looked sharper in the preseason and Tomlin wants to air it out. Santiago Homles looks much improved as well and I would imagine Heath Miller will make a big stride this year. I think the Steelers lost something when Cowher and Porter left and I don't see anyone filling those voids. The rookie LBers won't fill Porter's hole right away. Maybe by the end of the season but not out of the gate. Tomlin is still a question mark till he proves himself. I think Romeo and Granthan can coach defense and now they are begining to get talented players to coach.

The QBs will play a huge role. Big Ben will test the rookie CB Eric Wright deep. Will Charlie Frye protect the ball? Will his pass protection hold up and specific to pass protection how will rookie starting OLT Joe Thomas look?

I have no idea what the score will be. The Browns are improved but how much improvement they will show on the field we'll see on Sunday.

One thing I know for certain...

This isn't the same Browns team of last year.

Click to expand...

Tomlin>>>>>>>>Crennel

Click to expand...

Based on what? I'm not a big Crennel supporter, but what makes you think Tomlin could have done >>>>>>>> better than Crennel given the Browns' talent the past couple of seasons?

Click to expand...

Based on the fact that Crennel suxor big time! Savage has done great things via the draft the last 2 yrs, but Romeo is a horrible HC. There is no debating that.

Oh? No debating that? You couldn't make one point to support your stance. And the point on top of your head doesn't count kid. Three Super Bowl trophies says that Crennel can coach. You have what to support your lame claim? Your shouting? Run along kid, people are talking football here.

Peak · Sep 9, 2007

Bracie Smathers said:
Irish said:

mr blond said:

Irish said:

Bracie Smathers said:

Frenchy Fuqua said:

Steelers -4.5

I think the Browns should be better than they were last year but I think the Steelers are better too. Bottom line, I don't see Charlie Frye and Jamal Lewis making enough plays against the Steelers D to win the game. The Browns will need some turnovers or big special teams plays to shorten the field and pull out a victory here. I don't see it happening.

Steelers 27

Browns 17

Click to expand...

The Browns have improved. Joe Thomas and Eric Stienbeck on the left side. JT looks like he will turn into one of the better run blocking offensive linemen. Hank Fraley was signed days before last year's kickoff and now he has a year with the team, he's a solid veteran. The suspension of ORT Ryan Tucker is covered by former starting OLT Shafer who slid over and is a capable fill-in. Last year RB Reuben Droughns was coming off a police blotter filled offseason of a DUI and a domestic disturbance incident and then got injured. Jamal Lewis is an upgrade.

TE Kellen Winslow Jr. was coming off his second consecutive IR season then tied HOF TE Ozzie Newsome's club single season reception record. Joe Thomas will free him up, he won't have to stay in and chip the DE allowing him to get off the LOS clean so he'll split the seam on deeper routes.

WR Braylon Edwards was coming off an ACL injury months before schedule. He has looked sensational this preseason. .

Last year QB Charlie Frye was gifted the starting QB job then ran into all sorts of problems, the line, WR/TE/RB. He played pretty gritty at first but it unravelled and he got injured. He needs to snap his 15 game turnover streak intact from his rookie season. He's getting the ball off quicker and feels pressure better than in the past. He has improved his game.

Last year, the defense had two rookie starting LBers in middle LB D'Qwell Jackson and OLB Kamerion Wimbley. Wimbley had 11 sacks and looks even better now. D'Qwell has bulked up and is filling gaps quicker, he looks very active. He could make a big leap in his play. Free agent acquisition Antwan Peek has flashed pass rush and big play ability. Willie McGhinnest is out so Antwan is starting. Peek played for DC Ted Granthan with the Texans. Leon Williams looked great when D'Qwell Jackson landed on IR the last few games so he provides depth.

The secondary was a MASH unit. Both starting CBs went out on IR and the backup landed on IR. Injuries helped establish depth as Lee Bodden emerged. Rookie CB Eric Wright has been solid in his positioning and made plays but he knows the Steelers will target him. SS Sean Jones emerged as one of the top five SS's in the league last year. FS Brodney Poole helped cover for the corner injuries. He won't have burdensome coverage responsibilities so he'll be freed up to play center field to allow a true deep cover-two defense scheme to be played.

On the Steeler side, Big Ben should improve. He stopped on oncoming windshield with his face and then had his appendix rupture. His QB passer rating was way off. He looked sharper in the preseason and Tomlin wants to air it out. Santiago Homles looks much improved as well and I would imagine Heath Miller will make a big stride this year. I think the Steelers lost something when Cowher and Porter left and I don't see anyone filling those voids. The rookie LBers won't fill Porter's hole right away. Maybe by the end of the season but not out of the gate. Tomlin is still a question mark till he proves himself. I think Romeo and Granthan can coach defense and now they are begining to get talented players to coach.

The QBs will play a huge role. Big Ben will test the rookie CB Eric Wright deep. Will Charlie Frye protect the ball? Will his pass protection hold up and specific to pass protection how will rookie starting OLT Joe Thomas look?

I have no idea what the score will be. The Browns are improved but how much improvement they will show on the field we'll see on Sunday.

One thing I know for certain...

This isn't the same Browns team of last year.

Click to expand...

Tomlin>>>>>>>>Crennel

Click to expand...

Based on what? I'm not a big Crennel supporter, but what makes you think Tomlin could have done >>>>>>>> better than Crennel given the Browns' talent the past couple of seasons?

Click to expand...

Based on the fact that Crennel suxor big time! Savage has done great things via the draft the last 2 yrs, but Romeo is a horrible HC. There is no debating that.

Click to expand...

Oh? No debating that? You couldn't make one point to support your stance. And the point on top of your head doesn't count kid. Three Super Bowl trophies says that Crennel can coach. You have what to support your lame claim? Your shouting? Run along kid, people are talking football here.

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