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Give Ronnie Brown the Damn Ball! (1 Viewer)

LMF

LMF

Footballguy
I know you are probably tired of reading about all the Ronnie Brown threads, but just hear me out. And I apologize if this stuff was mentioned in an earlier thread. I was doing some research on which of my 3 RB's to start when I saw some info on Ronnie Brown and his carries. It was very brief so i decided to go into more extensively, and this is what I came up with. Here are some stats over his career:

On Carries # 1-10 during games he has 274 attempts for 1,065 yards for an average of 3.9 per carry. Just wait it gets better! On Carries # 11-20 during games he has 143 attempts for 718 yards for an average of 5.0 yards per carry. On carries #21-30 during games he has 31 attempts for 132 yards for an average of 4.3 yards per carry.

During the first half of games Brown has 245 attempts for 891 yards for an average of 3.6 yards a carry. Again this gets much better! During the second half of games Ronnie Brown has 203 attempts for 1024 yards for an average of 5.0 yards per carry.

During the first quarter of games Brown has 119 attempts for 379 yards for an average of 3.2 yards a carry. Again gets better! During the second quarter of games Brown has 126 attempts for 512 yards for an average of 4.1 yards a carry. And better! During the third quarter of games Brown has 114 attempts for 618 yards for an average of 4.6 yards a carry. During the fourth quarter of games Brown has 89 attempts for 406 yards for an average of 4.6 yards a carry.

When Ronnie Browns team is ahead, he has 145 attempts for 640 yards for an average of 4.4 yards per carry. When Brown's team is behind, he has 198 attempts for 902 yards for an average of 4.6 yards per carry. Also 84% of Brown's TD's come when his team is behind.

Stats on this year:

This year Brown in the first half Brown has 12 attempts for 18 yards for an average of 1.5 yards per carry. Again it gets better. This year Brown in the second half has 10 attempts for 47 yards for an average of 4.7 yards per carry.

This year Cam Cameron is calling 25% more pass plays in the 2nd half than in the 1st half. Last year under Nick Saban only called 3% more pass plays during the second half, and thats when Brown had is 1000 yard season.

Now with all of this said, I do realize that Brown is getting carry's in the first and second half pretty equally, but he is not getting nearly enough carry's to prove his worth. Brown is a power back that gets stronger as the game goes on. These statics show that Brown gets stronger as time goes on and the more carry's he gets in a game. If Cam Cameron would use this to his advantage Brown would put up much better numbers and prove his worth.

Also, if Brown was on a team that could pass worth a flip for the first 20-25 minutes or so with Brown his share of carries then Brown would be a top 10 back every year IMO.

Ronnie Brown isn't doing so hot this year, but i do believe that he will turn it around this year and end up close to or if not in the top 15 of RB's this year. I do believe in buy low on Ronnie Brown right now!

 
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AnonymousBob said:
What has Cam Cameron shown thus far to indicate he'll start using Ronnie Brown more?
Click to expand...
I'm not to sure that Cam Cameron will start using him more until he shows Cameron in his first few carry's that he can get the job done. So I do believe that he will start doing better on each of his carry's and thus proving to Cameron that he can get the job done and Cameron will use him more. IMO
 
AnonymousBob said:
What has Cam Cameron shown thus far to indicate he'll start using Ronnie Brown more?
Click to expand...
Cam in a press conference this week admitted that they needed to run the ball more to have a chance of win and acknowledged that he needed to use Brown more to do that. Check the team web page for the transcript.
 
Traders2001 said:
AnonymousBob said:
What has Cam Cameron shown thus far to indicate he'll start using Ronnie Brown more?
Click to expand...
I blame Cameron for the 0 -2 starts and i believe he will be the first coach fired this season .He is doing the worst caoching job i have seen in years .
Click to expand...
I do agree with this. Cameron is doing a horrible job in MIA. The faster Cameron is fired is the faster Ronnie Brown will improve. IMO
 
LMF said:
Traders2001 said:
AnonymousBob said:
What has Cam Cameron shown thus far to indicate he'll start using Ronnie Brown more?
Click to expand...
I blame Cameron for the 0 -2 starts and i believe he will be the first coach fired this season .He is doing the worst caoching job i have seen in years .
Click to expand...
I do agree with this. Cameron is doing a horrible job in MIA. The faster Cameron is fired is the faster Ronnie Brown will improve. IMO
Click to expand...
I hate what Cam has done so far but I dont think he's gonna get fired. I actually think once Cam's ego shrinks he will actually bring out the best in Ronnie. Or atleast I hope. :)
 
Interesting. I believe Brown is a talented RB, but Cameron is killing him. Won't be too long before we see Beck & Ginn, IMO. May as well...they're not going anywhere this season, LOL.

 
az_prof said:
AnonymousBob said:
What has Cam Cameron shown thus far to indicate he'll start using Ronnie Brown more?
Click to expand...
Cam in a press conference this week admitted that they needed to run the ball more to have a chance of win and acknowledged that he needed to use Brown more to do that. Check the team web page for the transcript.
Click to expand...
Do you have a link directly to it? I couldn't find it... maybe im just blind, LOL.
 
The heat may be on Cam but **he just doesnt like Brown*** so as soon as he makes one mistake in the game, say gets hit and fumbles, the bubble will burst again. Brown owners have to wait, barring a miracle, for a change in this bad situation. And really the OL is the entire reason.

LMF said:
az_prof said:
AnonymousBob said:
What has Cam Cameron shown thus far to indicate he'll start using Ronnie Brown more?
Click to expand...
Cam in a press conference this week admitted that they needed to run the ball more to have a chance of win and acknowledged that he needed to use Brown more to do that. Check the team web page for the transcript.
Click to expand...
Do you have a link directly to it? I couldn't find it... maybe im just blind, LOL.
Click to expand...
 
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Ronnie Brown Owners,

It is time to come out of denial and come to grips with the fact that although he has the "tools" he will never be a feature back in the NFL. First of all he is not that good of a back. I being a rabid Dolphins fan have watched him play every down of his career here. He is not that good. Secondly he is not demanding the ball. He is quite content to get 10-15 carries a game. A feature back, a playmaker if you will wants the ball. Brown is so passive and non chalant about being taken out of games it is scary.

Those of us in Miami already knew after last season this kid is a BUST. He is half the back Ricky Williams was for us. Too bad Ricky is a total flake and head case becuase we loved him when he played for us. Even when he came back 2 years ago he was the better back than our prized 2nd overall pick in Ronnie Brown.

Stop reading stats and see him for what he is. He is not a difference maker. He is not a play maker. He is not a star caliber player what so ever. RB's for the most part show this right away. It is the most instinctive position in the NFL.

Step away from the cliff....move on...and seek out a replacement.

 
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Miami just sucks. Brown is a combine guy, fast in shorts or tights but runs high with little imagination once in pads. Everything in Miami will get worse before it gets better, so if Brown somehow gets a solid game or 2 under his belt, SELL HIGH.

 
Well. I see the problem as squarely on the OL and Cam. so eventually either Cam leaves or thankfully Ronnie will go somewhere else. I remember watching Thomas Jones for years as he sucked in AZ, and I thought he was bad. Then he gets in CHI and he looks like a different guy. You can't underestimate the importance of coaching and the OL.

 
az_prof said:
Well. I see the problem as squarely on the OL and Cam. so eventually either Cam leaves or thankfully Ronnie will go somewhere else. I remember watching Thomas Jones for years as he sucked in AZ, and I thought he was bad. Then he gets in CHI and he looks like a different guy. You can't underestimate the importance of coaching and the OL.
Click to expand...
Cameron and Hauck[not sure of spelling] turned a not so gifted O-line in S.D. around a few years back so that a talented RB could have a very productive year. Coaching is not the problem, overall talent is, playcalling maybe but that usually relates to the game situation.
 
hellz_fireflies said:
Football Jones said:
Interesting. I believe Brown is a talented RB, but Cameron is killing him. Won't be too long before we see Beck & Ginn, IMO. May as well...they're not going anywhere this season, LOL.
Click to expand...
You forgot to add L.Booker in there.
Click to expand...
Cam is not killing him...he already knows he does not fit into a feature back role. Saban ( that moron) even knew that...why do you think Ricky was welcomed with open arms? Ronnie could care less being the workhorse.And don't hold your breath on Booker. He has not even sniffed the field and probably will not for a while.

OL and coaching??? Great backs make bad lines look average and average lines look good to great.

EG:

LT

Sanders

Edge (his first 2 years)

Faulk

Sims

I could go on and on and on. Fantasy football blinds people. Watch the games...watch the players play...forget the stat's for a moment and realize if a guy has what it takes to be a good to great player then analyze his situation for fantasy purposes.

 
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Todem said:
hellz_fireflies said:
Football Jones said:
Interesting. I believe Brown is a talented RB, but Cameron is killing him. Won't be too long before we see Beck & Ginn, IMO. May as well...they're not going anywhere this season, LOL.
Click to expand...
You forgot to add L.Booker in there.
Click to expand...
Cam is not killing him...he already knows he does not fit into a feature back role. Saban ( that moron) even knew that...why do you think Ricky was welcomed with open arms? Ronnie could care less being the workhorse.And don't hold your breath on Booker. He has not even sniffed the field and probably will not for a while.

OL and coaching??? Great backs make bad lines look average and average lines look good to great.

EG:LT

Sanders

Edge (his first 2 years)

Faulk

Sims

I could go on and on and on. Fantasy football blinds people. Watch the games...watch the players play...forget the stat's for a moment and realize if a guy has what it takes to be a good to great player then analyze his situation for fantasy purposes.
Click to expand...
LJ and LT are sure doing that aren't they? Doesn't that make you pause and think twice? Great backs are part of a great system. Put Brown in LJ in the good ole days and he would have done as well or better than LJ. Put LJ in MIA the past two years and he would be nothing.And Brown averaging 4.3 YPC behind that piss poor line the past two years IS making a bad line look good. I can't count the number of times he has been hit in the backfield and managed to make a couple of yards out of it anyway.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
az_prof said:
Todem said:
hellz_fireflies said:
Football Jones said:
Interesting. I believe Brown is a talented RB, but Cameron is killing him. Won't be too long before we see Beck & Ginn, IMO. May as well...they're not going anywhere this season, LOL.
Click to expand...
You forgot to add L.Booker in there.
Click to expand...
Cam is not killing him...he already knows he does not fit into a feature back role. Saban ( that moron) even knew that...why do you think Ricky was welcomed with open arms? Ronnie could care less being the workhorse.And don't hold your breath on Booker. He has not even sniffed the field and probably will not for a while.

OL and coaching??? Great backs make bad lines look average and average lines look good to great.

EG:LT

Sanders

Edge (his first 2 years)

Faulk

Sims

I could go on and on and on. Fantasy football blinds people. Watch the games...watch the players play...forget the stat's for a moment and realize if a guy has what it takes to be a good to great player then analyze his situation for fantasy purposes.
Click to expand...
LJ and LT are sure doing that aren't they? Doesn't that make you pause and think twice? Great backs are part of a great system. Put Brown in LJ in the good ole days and he would have done as well or better than LJ. Put LJ in MIA the past two years and he would be nothing.
Click to expand...
You don't get it.Believe what you want to believe but Brown can't hold LJ or LT's jocks...not even close how much better those 2 are to Ronnie Brown. It's really about talent at the next level. Some have it some don't. You put LJ on this Miami team he would outproduce Ronnie Brown easy. Put LT on this team and the same thing will happen. I remember seeing LT play behind garbage his first 2 seasons in San Diego. It was so obvious he was going to be a super star. It's quite obvious Brown will be an after thought very soon.

Are you kidding?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
az_prof said:
Todem said:
hellz_fireflies said:
Football Jones said:
Interesting. I believe Brown is a talented RB, but Cameron is killing him. Won't be too long before we see Beck & Ginn, IMO. May as well...they're not going anywhere this season, LOL.
Click to expand...
You forgot to add L.Booker in there.
Click to expand...
Cam is not killing him...he already knows he does not fit into a feature back role. Saban ( that moron) even knew that...why do you think Ricky was welcomed with open arms? Ronnie could care less being the workhorse.And don't hold your breath on Booker. He has not even sniffed the field and probably will not for a while.

OL and coaching??? Great backs make bad lines look average and average lines look good to great.

EG:LT

Sanders

Edge (his first 2 years)

Faulk

Sims

I could go on and on and on. Fantasy football blinds people. Watch the games...watch the players play...forget the stat's for a moment and realize if a guy has what it takes to be a good to great player then analyze his situation for fantasy purposes.
Click to expand...
LJ and LT are sure doing that aren't they? Doesn't that make you pause and think twice? Great backs are part of a great system. Put Brown in LJ in the good ole days and he would have done as well or better than LJ. Put LJ in MIA the past two years and he would be nothing.And Brown averaging 4.3 YPC behind that piss poor line the past two years IS making a bad line look good. I can't count the number of times he has been hit in the backfield and managed to make a couple of yards out of it anyway.
Click to expand...
Ronnie Brown doesn't have 1/10th the talent of LJ. LJ's #'s last year on a pretty crappy KC team were nothing short of amazing. He'll repeat them this year too.
 
Todem said:
az_prof said:
Todem said:
hellz_fireflies said:
Football Jones said:
Interesting. I believe Brown is a talented RB, but Cameron is killing him. Won't be too long before we see Beck & Ginn, IMO. May as well...they're not going anywhere this season, LOL.
Click to expand...
You forgot to add L.Booker in there.
Click to expand...
Cam is not killing him...he already knows he does not fit into a feature back role. Saban ( that moron) even knew that...why do you think Ricky was welcomed with open arms? Ronnie could care less being the workhorse.And don't hold your breath on Booker. He has not even sniffed the field and probably will not for a while.

OL and coaching??? Great backs make bad lines look average and average lines look good to great.

EG:LT

Sanders

Edge (his first 2 years)

Faulk

Sims

I could go on and on and on. Fantasy football blinds people. Watch the games...watch the players play...forget the stat's for a moment and realize if a guy has what it takes to be a good to great player then analyze his situation for fantasy purposes.
Click to expand...
LJ and LT are sure doing that aren't they? Doesn't that make you pause and think twice? Great backs are part of a great system. Put Brown in LJ in the good ole days and he would have done as well or better than LJ. Put LJ in MIA the past two years and he would be nothing.
Click to expand...
You don't get it.Believe what you want to believe but Brown can't hold LJ or LT's jocks...not even close how much better those 2 are to Ronnie Brown. It's really about talent at the next level. Some have it some don't. You put LJ on this Miami team he would outproduce Ronnie Brown easy. Put LT on this team and the same thing will happen. I remember seeing LT play behind garbage his first 2 seasons in San Diego. It was so obvious he was going to be a super star. It's quite obvious Brown will be an after thought very soon.

Are you kidding?
Click to expand...
I don't agree that LT was playing with nothing in SD. In 2007:

LJ, is 26 for 98

LT is 35 for 68

Brown? 22 for 65

As far as I can see it, the problem is that Ronnie isn't getting the ball enough. I don't see a quantum leap difference.

 
az_prof said:
Todem said:
az_prof said:
Todem said:
hellz_fireflies said:
Football Jones said:
Interesting. I believe Brown is a talented RB, but Cameron is killing him. Won't be too long before we see Beck & Ginn, IMO. May as well...they're not going anywhere this season, LOL.
Click to expand...
You forgot to add L.Booker in there.
Click to expand...
Cam is not killing him...he already knows he does not fit into a feature back role. Saban ( that moron) even knew that...why do you think Ricky was welcomed with open arms? Ronnie could care less being the workhorse.And don't hold your breath on Booker. He has not even sniffed the field and probably will not for a while.

OL and coaching??? Great backs make bad lines look average and average lines look good to great.

EG:LT

Sanders

Edge (his first 2 years)

Faulk

Sims

I could go on and on and on. Fantasy football blinds people. Watch the games...watch the players play...forget the stat's for a moment and realize if a guy has what it takes to be a good to great player then analyze his situation for fantasy purposes.
Click to expand...
LJ and LT are sure doing that aren't they? Doesn't that make you pause and think twice? Great backs are part of a great system. Put Brown in LJ in the good ole days and he would have done as well or better than LJ. Put LJ in MIA the past two years and he would be nothing.
Click to expand...
You don't get it.Believe what you want to believe but Brown can't hold LJ or LT's jocks...not even close how much better those 2 are to Ronnie Brown. It's really about talent at the next level. Some have it some don't. You put LJ on this Miami team he would outproduce Ronnie Brown easy. Put LT on this team and the same thing will happen. I remember seeing LT play behind garbage his first 2 seasons in San Diego. It was so obvious he was going to be a super star. It's quite obvious Brown will be an after thought very soon.

Are you kidding?
Click to expand...
I don't agree that LT was playing with nothing in SD. In 2007:

LJ, is 26 for 98

LT is 35 for 68

Brown? 22 for 65

As far as I can see it, the problem is that Ronnie isn't getting the ball enough. I don't see a quantum leap difference.
Click to expand...
He does not want the ball. Also check back after the season. LJ and LT will be top 5.

 
Ok, im not saying that Ronnie Brown has the talent that LT or LJ has. 1/10? defanatley. Anyways lets break it down a little more comparing LT and Ronnie Brown.

During LT's first two seasons LT averaged 4.1 yards a carry. Ronnie Brown averaged 4.3. Sure you can say o well LT had more carries and so on and so forth, BUT we already proved that Ronnie Brown gets stronger as the game goes on. Also LT gets worse as the game goes on for YPC as Ronnie Brown gets signifacantly stronger. LT only averaged 3.6 his rookie season while Ronnie Brown averaged 4.4. And SD line was no worse and probably better than the MIA line is now and the past two years.

So im saying that if you put Ronnie Brown in LT's situation and give him the ball more on decent play calling... and he would put up similar RUSHING yardage. He wont have the cathces wich contribute to his FF points. Ronnie Brown would/will be a top 8 back in an offensive system worth a damn.

Now again i am not saying Ronnie has the talent that LT does, just proving that his rushing STATS would be as good if he was used correctly and in the same situation.

Oh, and for those who say stats dont matter... I have news for you. Stats do matter, that is how a players MOSTLY evaluated throughout the season and at the end of the season, in FF and NFL.

 
Todem said:
az_prof said:
Todem said:
az_prof said:
Todem said:
hellz_fireflies said:
Football Jones said:
Interesting. I believe Brown is a talented RB, but Cameron is killing him. Won't be too long before we see Beck & Ginn, IMO. May as well...they're not going anywhere this season, LOL.
Click to expand...
You forgot to add L.Booker in there.
Click to expand...
Cam is not killing him...he already knows he does not fit into a feature back role. Saban ( that moron) even knew that...why do you think Ricky was welcomed with open arms? Ronnie could care less being the workhorse.And don't hold your breath on Booker. He has not even sniffed the field and probably will not for a while.

OL and coaching??? Great backs make bad lines look average and average lines look good to great.

EG:LT

Sanders

Edge (his first 2 years)

Faulk

Sims

I could go on and on and on. Fantasy football blinds people. Watch the games...watch the players play...forget the stat's for a moment and realize if a guy has what it takes to be a good to great player then analyze his situation for fantasy purposes.
Click to expand...
LJ and LT are sure doing that aren't they? Doesn't that make you pause and think twice? Great backs are part of a great system. Put Brown in LJ in the good ole days and he would have done as well or better than LJ. Put LJ in MIA the past two years and he would be nothing.
Click to expand...
You don't get it.Believe what you want to believe but Brown can't hold LJ or LT's jocks...not even close how much better those 2 are to Ronnie Brown. It's really about talent at the next level. Some have it some don't. You put LJ on this Miami team he would outproduce Ronnie Brown easy. Put LT on this team and the same thing will happen. I remember seeing LT play behind garbage his first 2 seasons in San Diego. It was so obvious he was going to be a super star. It's quite obvious Brown will be an after thought very soon.

Are you kidding?
Click to expand...
I don't agree that LT was playing with nothing in SD. In 2007:

LJ, is 26 for 98

LT is 35 for 68

Brown? 22 for 65

As far as I can see it, the problem is that Ronnie isn't getting the ball enough. I don't see a quantum leap difference.
Click to expand...
He does not want the ball. Also check back after the season. LJ and LT will be top 5.
Click to expand...
Wow, you really think so?Way to step out on a limb.

How do you know he doesn't want theball. Do you have a link to him saying so? If it's just because he has yet to undermine the coach (even if it's needed), your entire argument is just weak sauce.

 
Jon_Moore said:
Todem said:
az_prof said:
Todem said:
az_prof said:
Todem said:
hellz_fireflies said:
Football Jones said:
Interesting. I believe Brown is a talented RB, but Cameron is killing him. Won't be too long before we see Beck & Ginn, IMO. May as well...they're not going anywhere this season, LOL.
Click to expand...
You forgot to add L.Booker in there.
Click to expand...
Cam is not killing him...he already knows he does not fit into a feature back role. Saban ( that moron) even knew that...why do you think Ricky was welcomed with open arms? Ronnie could care less being the workhorse.And don't hold your breath on Booker. He has not even sniffed the field and probably will not for a while.

OL and coaching??? Great backs make bad lines look average and average lines look good to great.

EG:LT

Sanders

Edge (his first 2 years)

Faulk

Sims

I could go on and on and on. Fantasy football blinds people. Watch the games...watch the players play...forget the stat's for a moment and realize if a guy has what it takes to be a good to great player then analyze his situation for fantasy purposes.
Click to expand...
LJ and LT are sure doing that aren't they? Doesn't that make you pause and think twice? Great backs are part of a great system. Put Brown in LJ in the good ole days and he would have done as well or better than LJ. Put LJ in MIA the past two years and he would be nothing.
Click to expand...
You don't get it.Believe what you want to believe but Brown can't hold LJ or LT's jocks...not even close how much better those 2 are to Ronnie Brown. It's really about talent at the next level. Some have it some don't. You put LJ on this Miami team he would outproduce Ronnie Brown easy. Put LT on this team and the same thing will happen. I remember seeing LT play behind garbage his first 2 seasons in San Diego. It was so obvious he was going to be a super star. It's quite obvious Brown will be an after thought very soon.

Are you kidding?
Click to expand...
I don't agree that LT was playing with nothing in SD. In 2007:

LJ, is 26 for 98

LT is 35 for 68

Brown? 22 for 65

As far as I can see it, the problem is that Ronnie isn't getting the ball enough. I don't see a quantum leap difference.
Click to expand...
He does not want the ball. Also check back after the season. LJ and LT will be top 5.
Click to expand...
Wow, you really think so?Way to step out on a limb.

How do you know he doesn't want theball. Do you have a link to him saying so? If it's just because he has yet to undermine the coach (even if it's needed), your entire argument is just weak sauce.
Click to expand...
:bag: If Brown comes out and gripes about Cameron that isn't going to get him any more carries any faster. He might be smarter than you think he his. IMO

 
I just question his hunger , literally. Some top 5 picks seem to lack the hunger because theyre not playing for a contract. Many are set for life the second they step into the league. Considering that in 3 years Ive probably seen less than 10 highlight plays from Brown off about 500 touches, at this point Im just not impressed. It often makes you wonder. That team sucking all around certainly doesnt help. But individually speaking from a talent perspective, he was clearly overrated coming out of college. Id venture a guess that Nick Saban realized that too, and was part of the reason he decided to cut his losses.

 
Todem said:
hellz_fireflies said:
Football Jones said:
Interesting. I believe Brown is a talented RB, but Cameron is killing him. Won't be too long before we see Beck & Ginn, IMO. May as well...they're not going anywhere this season, LOL.
Click to expand...
You forgot to add L.Booker in there.
Click to expand...
Cam is not killing him...he already knows he does not fit into a feature back role. Saban ( that moron) even knew that...why do you think Ricky was welcomed with open arms? Ronnie could care less being the workhorse.And don't hold your breath on Booker. He has not even sniffed the field and probably will not for a while.

OL and coaching??? Great backs make bad lines look average and average lines look good to great.

EG:

LT

Sanders

Edge (his first 2 years)

Faulk

Sims

I could go on and on and on. Fantasy football blinds people. Watch the games...watch the players play...forget the stat's for a moment and realize if a guy has what it takes to be a good to great player then analyze his situation for fantasy purposes.
Click to expand...
Don't think you got the point here Todem what Football Jones meant..if Miami goes 2-6..those players will see the field.
 
hellz_fireflies said:
Todem said:
hellz_fireflies said:
Football Jones said:
Interesting. I believe Brown is a talented RB, but Cameron is killing him. Won't be too long before we see Beck & Ginn, IMO. May as well...they're not going anywhere this season, LOL.
Click to expand...
You forgot to add L.Booker in there.
Click to expand...
Cam is not killing him...he already knows he does not fit into a feature back role. Saban ( that moron) even knew that...why do you think Ricky was welcomed with open arms? Ronnie could care less being the workhorse.And don't hold your breath on Booker. He has not even sniffed the field and probably will not for a while.

OL and coaching??? Great backs make bad lines look average and average lines look good to great.

EG:

LT

Sanders

Edge (his first 2 years)

Faulk

Sims

I could go on and on and on. Fantasy football blinds people. Watch the games...watch the players play...forget the stat's for a moment and realize if a guy has what it takes to be a good to great player then analyze his situation for fantasy purposes.
Click to expand...
Don't think you got the point here Todem what Football Jones meant..if Miami goes 2-6..those players will see the field.
Click to expand...
Booker is behind Patrick Cobbs at this point. So he may have to wait longer than most think.Ronnie Brown will never be a top 8 back anywhere. Sheesh people who own him need to take off the rose colored glasses. Stats are ultimatly for losers. Does he make impact plays? No that's why he is not the workhorse.

 
Jon_Moore said:
Todem said:
az_prof said:
Todem said:
az_prof said:
Todem said:
hellz_fireflies said:
Football Jones said:
Interesting. I believe Brown is a talented RB, but Cameron is killing him. Won't be too long before we see Beck & Ginn, IMO. May as well...they're not going anywhere this season, LOL.
Click to expand...
You forgot to add L.Booker in there.
Click to expand...
Cam is not killing him...he already knows he does not fit into a feature back role. Saban ( that moron) even knew that...why do you think Ricky was welcomed with open arms? Ronnie could care less being the workhorse.And don't hold your breath on Booker. He has not even sniffed the field and probably will not for a while.

OL and coaching??? Great backs make bad lines look average and average lines look good to great.

EG:LT

Sanders

Edge (his first 2 years)

Faulk

Sims

I could go on and on and on. Fantasy football blinds people. Watch the games...watch the players play...forget the stat's for a moment and realize if a guy has what it takes to be a good to great player then analyze his situation for fantasy purposes.
Click to expand...
LJ and LT are sure doing that aren't they? Doesn't that make you pause and think twice? Great backs are part of a great system. Put Brown in LJ in the good ole days and he would have done as well or better than LJ. Put LJ in MIA the past two years and he would be nothing.
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You don't get it.Believe what you want to believe but Brown can't hold LJ or LT's jocks...not even close how much better those 2 are to Ronnie Brown. It's really about talent at the next level. Some have it some don't. You put LJ on this Miami team he would outproduce Ronnie Brown easy. Put LT on this team and the same thing will happen. I remember seeing LT play behind garbage his first 2 seasons in San Diego. It was so obvious he was going to be a super star. It's quite obvious Brown will be an after thought very soon.

Are you kidding?
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I don't agree that LT was playing with nothing in SD. In 2007:

LJ, is 26 for 98

LT is 35 for 68

Brown? 22 for 65As far as I can see it, the problem is that Ronnie isn't getting the ball enough. I don't see a quantum leap difference.
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He does not want the ball. Also check back after the season. LJ and LT will be top 5.
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Wow, you really think so?Way to step out on a limb.

How do you know he doesn't want theball. Do you have a link to him saying so? If it's just because he has yet to undermine the coach (even if it's needed), your entire argument is just weak sauce.
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Hey jerkie read through the postsWhen someone posts that muck above and try's to justify Ronnie is just not getting the ball enough comparing him to LT and LJ I must again state the obvious....check back after the season.

Sheesh.

 
BBRULE said:
Brown is a combine guy, fast in shorts or tights but runs high with little imagination once in pads.
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yea most workout warriors come into the NFL, on a bad team, and average over 4 yards a carry in their first two seasons. Most combine guys come in and pop off two 1000+ yard seasons in a row. Happens all the time. :shrug:
 
I have to say, Cam's dislike of Brown is puzzling. Take away that Brown was a top 5 pick in the NFL draft. He actually had a solid 2006, despite missing 3 games. In 2005 he averaged 4.4. yards a carry, in 2006 he average 4.2 yards a carry. All Pro numbers? No, but solid. He also did this with one of the worst supporting offensive casts in football!

Here is what I don't understand from Cameron: Why would you severely limit Brown's carries in the first couple of games while trying to get Chatman involved at his expense? The better move would be to give Brown 20-25 carries and see what he could do. Brown is the type of back who will take advantage of fatigued defenses in the 4th quarter. If he has a terrible 2-3 games, go ahead an work Chatman in. It is one of the more puzzling things I have seen this year.

 
Todem said:
hellz_fireflies said:
Football Jones said:
Interesting. I believe Brown is a talented RB, but Cameron is killing him. Won't be too long before we see Beck & Ginn, IMO. May as well...they're not going anywhere this season, LOL.
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You forgot to add L.Booker in there.
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OL and coaching??? Great backs make bad lines look average and average lines look good to great.

EG:

LT

Sanders

Edge (his first 2 years)

Faulk

Sims

I could go on and on and on. Fantasy football blinds people. Watch the games...watch the players play...forget the stat's for a moment and realize if a guy has what it takes to be a good to great player then analyze his situation for fantasy purposes.
Click to expand...
Might want to use different players here:LT runs behind possibly the best run blocking line in the NFL.

Sanders ran behind Lomas Brown and Kevin Glover

Faulk played behind an incredible O line, from LT to RT in St. Louis.

 
ThePittbully said:
BBRULE said:
Brown is a combine guy, fast in shorts or tights but runs high with little imagination once in pads.
Click to expand...
yea most workout warriors come into the NFL, on a bad team, and average over 4 yards a carry in their first two seasons. Most combine guys come in and pop off two 1000+ yard seasons in a row. Happens all the time. :crazy:
Click to expand...
:shrug: To me a combine guy is a guy like Mike Mamula or Matt Jones, guys that were solid college players but put up ridiculous stats at the combine that inflated their reputation. Brown had an excellent career at Auburn and was widely considered the best rb prospect in the draft.
 
Most of the people who were down on Brown did not think of him being a FF number 1 RB, but still saw him as a useful player. Right now, he is around 30 in most leagues, which means be is no more than a bye week fill-in in start two RB leagues. Obviously, he could move up be just getting more touches, but he needs to actually do something with those to justify where most people drafted him. A score would be nice also.

 
Balco said:
Todem said:
hellz_fireflies said:
Football Jones said:
Interesting. I believe Brown is a talented RB, but Cameron is killing him. Won't be too long before we see Beck & Ginn, IMO. May as well...they're not going anywhere this season, LOL.
Click to expand...
You forgot to add L.Booker in there.
Click to expand...
OL and coaching??? Great backs make bad lines look average and average lines look good to great.

EG:

LT

Sanders

Edge (his first 2 years)

Faulk

Sims

I could go on and on and on. Fantasy football blinds people. Watch the games...watch the players play...forget the stat's for a moment and realize if a guy has what it takes to be a good to great player then analyze his situation for fantasy purposes.
Click to expand...
Might want to use different players here:LT runs behind possibly the best run blocking line in the NFL.

Sanders ran behind Lomas Brown and Kevin Glover

Faulk played behind an incredible O line, from LT to RT in St. Louis.
Click to expand...
LT first 2 years he had an average line and a weak QB.Sanders first few years also an average line

Edge and Faulk behind those early Colt lines.

Point is great backs make their space. They can take a crease and go.

Brown is an average back and people sitting here arguing about his 4.4 YPC are being blind to the fact that he not a play maker and a difference maker and that is why he is being phased out of the offense.

He is not close to bein g top 8 material as some here are posting. Not even close.

 
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Balco said:
Here is what I don't understand from Cameron: Why would you severely limit Brown's carries in the first couple of games while trying to get Chatman involved at his expense? The better move would be to give Brown 20-25 carries and see what he could do. Brown is the type of back who will take advantage of fatigued defenses in the 4th quarter. If he has a terrible 2-3 games, go ahead an work Chatman in. It is one of the more puzzling things I have seen this year.
Click to expand...
It's Cam's way of demonstrating his genius.
 
It seems to me that in order for you to figure out what these stats mean you could compare those carry breakdowns within the same game. i'm guessing that games in which a RB doesn't gain many yards in carries 1-10 or the first half or wherever you draw the line, he doesn't get to continue getting carries later in the game. and in games in which a RB has a good ypc, he would probably be more likely to get more carries later in the game.

for instance, just picking his biggest carry game last year, brown went 29-157 against chicago. in the first half, he rushed 14-81, and in the 2nd half 15-76.

a counter-example could be his 26-90 game against tennessee. he rushed 11-24 in the 1st half, 15-66 in the 2nd half. but he had 1 big carry in the 2nd half for 27 yards. if we remove that, we get 14-39, which is still better than but much closer to his first half performance. i'm not saying we should necessarily remove that carry, just pointing out that brown didn't start ripping off consistent chunks of yards at some magical number of carries.

 
Balco said:
Here is what I don't understand from Cameron: Why would you severely limit Brown's carries in the first couple of games while trying to get Chatman involved at his expense? The better move would be to give Brown 20-25 carries and see what he could do. Brown is the type of back who will take advantage of fatigued defenses in the 4th quarter. If he has a terrible 2-3 games, go ahead an work Chatman in. It is one of the more puzzling things I have seen this year.
Click to expand...
imo, this has not been demonstrated to be a special skill of brown's.
 
Brown probably got off to the wrong start with Cam. I read about how he came into camp out of shape and overweight...Cam may just be showing Brown, who has been given everything including lots of money in his short career, that things aren't going to just be given to him anymore. Cam may be jeopordizing some games this season but I think he is ultimately trying to prove a point. LT and LJ got to where they are because of their desire to be great and work ethic. Maybe if Cam shows Brown he cant get touches if he doesnt work then he will change him for the better in the long run

 
DarabZarrabi said:
Brown probably got off to the wrong start with Cam. I read about how he came into camp out of shape and overweight...Cam may just be showing Brown, who has been given everything including lots of money in his short career, that things aren't going to just be given to him anymore. Cam may be jeopordizing some games this season but I think he is ultimately trying to prove a point. LT and LJ got to where they are because of their desire to be great and work ethic. Maybe if Cam shows Brown he cant get touches if he doesnt work then he will change him for the better in the long run
Click to expand...
This is actually a very :towelwave: The only issue I have with this is that Cam has a history of bucking the trend just to do it and having it not work out. Only time will tell if this is just Cam being Cam or if the above posting is true.
 
J R said:
Balco said:
Here is what I don't understand from Cameron: Why would you severely limit Brown's carries in the first couple of games while trying to get Chatman involved at his expense? The better move would be to give Brown 20-25 carries and see what he could do. Brown is the type of back who will take advantage of fatigued defenses in the 4th quarter. If he has a terrible 2-3 games, go ahead an work Chatman in. It is one of the more puzzling things I have seen this year.
Click to expand...
imo, this has not been demonstrated to be a special skill of brown's.
Click to expand...
I dont understand the logik behind Brown haters .He had two very good seasons running the ball ( 4,4 and 4,2 YPC in 2005 - 2006 ) behind the wost OL in the league and absolutely zero QB . How can you expect more .

Cameron is a terrible head coach and is just on a power trip that will lead the Phins into one of their worst season ever .

He might stick this year ( They might not want to fire him during the season ) but for sure he wont be around next season.

 
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LMF said:
az_prof said:
AnonymousBob said:
What has Cam Cameron shown thus far to indicate he'll start using Ronnie Brown more?
Click to expand...
Cam in a press conference this week admitted that they needed to run the ball more to have a chance of win and acknowledged that he needed to use Brown more to do that. Check the team web page for the transcript.
Click to expand...
Do you have a link directly to it? I couldn't find it... maybe im just blind, LOL.
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I couldn't find it either. Does anyone have a direct link? This is what I found, from the link in the Blooger story that claims "RB Brown Will Carry Bigger Load Sunday". I don't see where that claim is supported by the linked article, though. What Cameron says there is just coachspeak generalities.

Cameron said repeatedly this week that Brown's lack of work this season has had more to do with game circumstances than his ability. Cameron said Brown "will have a significant role" Sunday against the New York Jets, whom Brown burned for 237 yards in two games last season.

Cameron also went of his way to point out how "young" Brown is as a runner - he never topped 175 carries in any of his four years at Auburn, and hasn't had 250 carries in an NFL season - and how much Brown still needs to learn.
Click to expand...
Link
 
J R said:
Balco said:
Here is what I don't understand from Cameron: Why would you severely limit Brown's carries in the first couple of games while trying to get Chatman involved at his expense? The better move would be to give Brown 20-25 carries and see what he could do. Brown is the type of back who will take advantage of fatigued defenses in the 4th quarter. If he has a terrible 2-3 games, go ahead an work Chatman in. It is one of the more puzzling things I have seen this year.
Click to expand...
imo, this has not been demonstrated to be a special skill of brown's.
Click to expand...
IMO, it has. So...
 
As a dolphin fan, I think Brown has two things working against him.

1) His O line is terrible. It is one thing to look at LT and LJ, but the truth is Brown will muscle out a 3 - 4 yard play and then get hit for a 2 yard loss, or get hit just as he gets the ball and make it back to the LOS. That ain't the running back, folks.

2) He doesn't get enough carries at the moment to bust a big one, and he is being taken out when he is the best receiver we have at RB.

Cam wants to light a fire under brown???? What about mister every other catch Chambers? I really believe that Ronnie can be a force in this league. Even RW had some trouble behind some bad Miami O lines, and his first 10-15 carries were usually crap. It was the last 10 - 15 carries that gave him his numbers. Ronnie doesn't get them.

IMHO

 
No one has demonstrated in this thread that Brown has some special skill of becoming a better back after he passes a magical threshold of carries. I made a fairly humble suggestion upthread that the stats in the original post carried a selection bias, and that someone (like the original poster perhaps) try comparing those carry breakdowns within the same game. No one has taken the bait other than to call me a Brown hater so what the hell, I did a quick study myself.

I've seen this threshold number offered in a few different versions here: 11, 15, 20, 2nd half . . . I chose 15 based on the most recent post. It sounds like a fair number. I figured the numbers using play-by-play data from nfl.com for 2006. My 15+ total comes out 4 yards better than yahoo's, but I assume no one in this thread minds that. Here are the totals for Brown in games in which he carried the ball more than 15 times:

carry 1-15: 105-500 4.8

carry 16+: 53-227 4.3

It seems to me that if the premise of the original post was correct and all Cameron needs to do is give Ronnie Brown the Damn Ball, then the ypc would increase when Brown reaches 15 carries in a game, rather than decline by half a yard.

I argue that the selection bias in the carry breakdown statistics shifts the burden of all of Brown's bad games solely on the low-carry tier, since it is in those games that Brown's ineffectiveness lowers his total number of carries.

 
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