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I don't get all the love for the Patriots (1 Viewer)

Colin Dowling

Colin Dowling

Footballguy
So everyone is all up in it with the Patriots. The national press is tossing on the praise. Someone on the message board here called them the best team since the '85 Bears. Bill Simmons (admitted NE homer) thinks they are "the best team in the last 15 years." I certainly can see the argument that 4 weeks in they are the best team of the 2007 NFL season. However, the notion that this is one of the best teams of all time after a mere 4 weeks is bothersome.

To the numbers...

The Patriots have beaten four 1-3 teams. Comparatively, the Colts four opponents are a combined 6-8. Not stellar, but the Titans and Broncos are inarguably EONS better then the Jets and Bills. (The Cowboys opponents are a combined 3-11. The Packers opponents are a combined 5-7)

The Patriots are scoring 37 points per game, including a couple "the game is already decided" scores that they are most certainly entitled to.

The Cowboys are scoring 37.75 points per game. The Colts are scoring 32.75 against much tougher competition defensively. The Packers lag at 26.25 per game.

Tom Brady: 79.2, 9.3, 13TDs, 2 Ints

Tony Romo: 59.5%, 9.9ypa, 13 TDs, 3 Ints

Peyton Manning: 67.2, 8.3, 9TD, 1 Int

Brett Favre: 65.9, 7.2, 8 TD, 2 Int

Defensively, the Patriots shake out as "excellent" as expected. But there are two 3-1 teams that have allowed fewer points. There are three teams allowing fewer points per game. THere are three teams allowing fewer pass yards per game. THere are two teams allowing fewer rush yards per game.

On and on and on and on.

Despite what I'm sure will be posted here, I'm not bagging on the Pats. I think they are playing wonderful football and I look forward to seeing them play the Cowboys and the Colts, among others. My big thing is that I don't see what the big deal is, at least not yet. They've dominated some bad teams and are statistically similar to a handful of other teams. Isn't this what we go throw on a regular basis?

 
Ok, but when they beat the Colts and the Cowboys and the Steelers and go undefeated and win the Super Bowl; will you at least admit they might be one of the greatest teams in a zillion years?

 
In my mind the Pats are the best of the four undefeated teams based on actually WATCHING the games. Forget stats.

They LOOK incredible. :shrug:

Signed,

A traditional Pats HATER

 
PatsFanCT said:
Ok, but when they beat the Colts and the Cowboys and the Steelers and go undefeated and win the Super Bowl; will you at least admit they might be one of the greatest teams in a zillion years?
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Without question. That would be amazing. The metric involved there would be purely wins and losses, which is all that matters in the end. But if I hear one more snippet about how they "score at will!" "dictate the game from start to finish" and "dominate on defense!" I may snap. My point is that they are 4-0 and playing great football. So are 3 other teams. Summary: Everyone simmer down. It's week 4. Not week 14.
 
Worm said:
In my mind the Pats are the best of the four undefeated teams based on actually WATCHING the games. Forget stats.They LOOK incredible. :shrug:Signed,A traditional Pats HATER
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Have you watched the Cowboys? With the exception of the first half Sunday, I feel they've looked every bit as good. And they're playing with 1 WR and 1 Te...
 
I think it's stemming from the fact that :

a) They've won every game by 21+ points

b) They beat the Chargers and bengals, whom many believe are better than their records would indicate.

c) They've done this without Seymour and Harrison, who are difference makers (per the Pats) on defense.

 
Evilgrin 72 said:
I think it's stemming from the fact that :a) They've won every game by 21+ pointsb) They beat the Chargers and bengals, whom many believe are better than their records would indicate.c) They've done this without Seymour and Harrison, who are difference makers (per the Pats) on defense.
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All good points. I think that the shine is off the Chargers and Bengals though.
 
Statistically speaking, Ill tell you why. Theyre the first team Ive seen since probably the 90s Cowboys that is a top 5 team in all SIX major team categories - total rushing offense and defense, total passing offense and defense, and scoring offense and defense. Top 5 in all 6 of those areas is flat getting it done. Those 'Boyz teams with Aikman and co. are the best Ive ever seen. They were incredibly deep and talented in all areas. These New England Pats, no matter how early it is, is the first team that's threatened that image.

 
Colin Dowling said:
Evilgrin 72 said:
I think it's stemming from the fact that :a) They've won every game by 21+ pointsb) They beat the Chargers and bengals, whom many believe are better than their records would indicate.c) They've done this without Seymour and Harrison, who are difference makers (per the Pats) on defense.
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All good points. I think that the shine is off the Chargers and Bengals though.
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Frig even the Browns "scored at will" against the Bengals and more then the Pats did.
 
They threw out a stunning stat last night...

The Patriots are the first team since 1920 to win their first four games by 20+ points.

They aren't the best because of statistics. They're the best because of their talent and composure. There hasn't been a moment that they haven't seemed in complete control this year.

 
IMO, the Pats are getting praise because they have up until now shown essentially no weaknesses. They have been far better at anyone they have faced in every facet of the game, and as others have mentioned, have been doing so without arguably their two best defensive players. And for the most part htey have seemed effortless in doing so. Not only that, but in their first three games they left points on the field and could easily have tacked on another 10 points but chose not to and instead refrained from kicking FGs and/or simply ran out the clock or did not pursue more points.

While it is unlikely that they will be able to continue playing like this against better teams, the fact that they are steamrolling people without really breaking much of a sweat is what is impressing people.

As for the other strong teams, they at least have shown that they are not perfect, have had plays where their QBs were hit/sacked/chased, etc. For the most part, Brady has had all day to throw and has been playing catch with his receivers while their RBs have been getting almost 5 yards a pop (when you eliminate QBs taking a knee).

 
Colin Dowling said:
PatsFanCT said:
Ok, but when they beat the Colts and the Cowboys and the Steelers and go undefeated and win the Super Bowl; will you at least admit they might be one of the greatest teams in a zillion years?
Click to expand...
Without question. That would be amazing. The metric involved there would be purely wins and losses, which is all that matters in the end. But if I hear one more snippet about how they "score at will!" "dictate the game from start to finish" and "dominate on defense!" I may snap. My point is that they are 4-0 and playing great football. So are 3 other teams. Summary: Everyone simmer down. It's week 4. Not week 14.
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This team looks phenomenal, and unbeatable, in every aspect of the game right now. They even get to play 2 of the 3 other teams you speak of in the regular season. Let us bask in the glory of an undefeated season, pipe dream or otherwise, while the streak is still alive. It's fun. Besides, it would kinda' suck if we didn't start talking about an undefeated season until after it was actually accomplished.
 
Bankerguy said:
Colin Dowling said:
Evilgrin 72 said:
I think it's stemming from the fact that :a) They've won every game by 21+ pointsb) They beat the Chargers and bengals, whom many believe are better than their records would indicate.c) They've done this without Seymour and Harrison, who are difference makers (per the Pats) on defense.
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All good points. I think that the shine is off the Chargers and Bengals though.
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Frig even the Browns "scored at will" against the Bengals and more then the Pats did.
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They allowed 45 points to the Bengals, though, as opposed to 13.
 
twitch said:
Statistically speaking, Ill tell you why. Theyre the first team Ive seen since probably the 90s Cowboys that is a top 5 team in all SIX major team categories - total rushing offense and defense, total passing offense and defense, and scoring offense and defense. Top 5 in all 6 of those areas is flat getting it done. Those 'Boyz teams with Aikman and co. are the best Ive ever seen. They were incredibly deep and talented in all areas. These New England Pats, no matter how early it is, is the first team that's threatened that image.
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Good points. For discussion's sake, the breakdowns....Offense:Total Rushing: NE - 4thDAL - 6thTotal Passing:NE - 5thDal - 3rdTotal Scoring:NE - 2ndDal - 1stDEFENSE:Total RushingNE - 3rdDallas - 7 Total PassingNE - 4Dallas - 15Total ScoringNE - 5NE - 11New England clearly has them in passing defense and scoring defense.
 
Not only that, but in their first three games they left points on the field and could easily have tacked on another 10 points but chose not to and instead refrained from kicking FGs and/or simply ran out the clock or did not pursue more points.
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I'm not sure this is correct. And even if it is, so have all the other teams - very rarely do people tack on points just for kicks when the game is already far out of reach.
They threw out a stunning stat last night...The Patriots are the first team since 1920 to win their first four games by 20+ points.
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Isn't this as much a function of who they have played as anything?
 
They've outscored their opponents 3-1. They're on pace to demolish the all-time record for points scored in a season. They're on pace to allow the third fewest points ever given up, just 5 more than the 85 Bears.

Of course it probably can't last. But this has been the most impressive opening to a season that I've ever seen.

Put it another way -- if you don't consider the Patriots' performance thus far to be impressive, then what exactly would it take to impress you?

 
Colin Dowling said:
Not only that, but in their first three games they left points on the field and could easily have tacked on another 10 points but chose not to and instead refrained from kicking FGs and/or simply ran out the clock or did not pursue more points.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure this is correct. And even if it is, so have all the other teams - very rarely do people tack on points just for kicks when the game is already far out of reach.
They threw out a stunning stat last night...The Patriots are the first team since 1920 to win their first four games by 20+ points.
Click to expand...
Isn't this as much a function of who they have played as anything?
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In the last 87 years, nobody else has opened up with four average-to-poor teams?
 
Through the first 4 games, they're probably the best team I've seen in years. :goodposting:

That said, it's not really that compelling a point. It's great for fans and the media, but not particularly meaningful. :shrug:

I'd love to see them continue this for 4 or so more games, at which point we'd be looking at truly historic accomplishments. :yes:

:broncosfan:

 
Colin Dowling said:
I'm not sure this is correct. And even if it is, so have all the other teams - very rarely do people tack on points just for kicks when the game is already far out of reach.
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I've watched all the Pats games, and as I said there were times in almost all their games where they chose not to score because they were already up 3 TDs. They got turnovers and started in FG range, put in the "B" team and basically sat on the ball inside the red zone and even went for it on fourth down rather than run up the score.IMO, this is different than getting the ball at thier own 20 yard line and chosing to run three times and punt in the 4th quarter. Speaking of which, what have the Pats punted, 5 times in 4 games?Again, I'm not one of the ones suggesting that this is the best team every assembled, but you asked why some people are smitten.
 
All I know is that weeks 6 (Dallas) & 9 (Indy), and the inevitable rematches in the AFC Championship and Superbowl are going to be hella good.

 
Sports Media = Hyperbole

They always do, and they are also very reactionary.

Right now the Patriots don't look to have any weaknesses, that's something that you couldn't say about any of dominant teams over the last decade. Colts it's been the defense or 2nd WR, Steelers they're offense, Ravens their offense, Tampa Bay offense, Chargers WRs, Rams Defense, 49ers RB, etc etc etc... Add that in with they have been able to do with less talent, and people are impressed with their potential.

I agree that they really haven't had a strong test yet, but Cincy was a pretty good one for their defense.

On the other side, even if they win every game by 10 or more, go undefeated, and never give up over 20, or score less then 30, some people will still question their greatness. Remember back in 2004 when in the playoffs they went against the best D, and scored over 40, and the best offense and held them to 3, people still thought they were lucky. Sports are emotional, it's human nature, people get excited and frustrated, and it effects their judgment.

 
The_Man said:
They've outscored their opponents 3-1. They're on pace to demolish the all-time record for points scored in a season. They're on pace to allow the third fewest points ever given up, just 5 more than the 85 Bears.

Of course it probably can't last. But this has been the most impressive opening to a season that I've ever seen.

Put it another way -- if you don't consider the Patriots' performance thus far to be impressive, then what exactly would it take to impress you?
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Which would be 2nd best, since Dallas is on pace to outscore them.I think there performance is VERY impressive. I just don't think it's unprecedented, which means I think it's a little early to talk about them being the greatest of all time, etc.

 
To be honest, I'm starting to get a little bummed out by the NFL. Feels like the mid to late 90s when the only games that mattered all season long were Dallas-SF and the entire rest of the season was window dressing. NE-Indy might be the only game that matters now.

 
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The_Man said:
They've outscored their opponents 3-1. They're on pace to demolish the all-time record for points scored in a season. They're on pace to allow the third fewest points ever given up, just 5 more than the 85 Bears.Of course it probably can't last. But this has been the most impressive opening to a season that I've ever seen.Put it another way -- if you don't consider the Patriots' performance thus far to be impressive, then what exactly would it take to impress you?
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Which reminds me that there were people suggesting the Pats would be behind the 8-Ball and would struggle out of the gate because the offense needed time to gel and they hadn't ever played together. There were supposed to be all these team chemistry problems. Does that mean this is the bad side of the offense and they will only get better?
 
Colin Dowling said:
I think it's a little early to talk about them being the greatest of all time, etc.
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As I mentioned in one of the other threads, all this banter and debate is wasted as NOTHING matters in September/October.I'll start getting hyped over stuff like this when they play the Super Bowl on Halloween.
 
PatsFanCT said:
Ok, but when they beat the Colts and the Cowboys and the Steelers and go undefeated and win the Super Bowl; will you at least admit they might be one of the greatest teams in a zillion years?
Click to expand...
:lmao: I love it when :unsure: brings out the Pat crazies.Colin> Keep them all. I don't see any reason to throw them back.
 
David Yudkin said:
Colin Dowling said:
I think it's a little early to talk about them being the greatest of all time, etc.
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As I mentioned in one of the other threads, all this banter and debate is wasted as NOTHING matters in September/October.I'll start getting hyped over stuff like this when they play the Super Bowl on Halloween.
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I guess the reason it grates on me is that I read everything NFL that I can find during the season (as I'm sure most of you do too). It just gets a little tiresome for the first 400 column words to be the same story week in and week out. They're awesome, I get it. But let's let the season play out a little before we forget there are a handful of other teams playing really great football as well.
 
So, are we playing the "they haven't played anybody" card here, or what? Cause if we are, I'd say we should be pretty careful.

As for the lovefest. It goes with Belichik. I'm sick of him, and I'm sick of the Patriots. I hate them. But I think I'll smile if the manage to get Randy a ring or shove the champagne down Miami's throat. So, I win either way.

 
Colin Dowling said:
Worm said:
In my mind the Pats are the best of the four undefeated teams based on actually WATCHING the games. Forget stats.They LOOK incredible. :shrug:Signed,A traditional Pats HATER
Click to expand...
Have you watched the Cowboys? With the exception of the first half Sunday, I feel they've looked every bit as good. And they're playing with 1 WR and 1 Te...
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I watched them against the Bears and was somewhat underwhelmed. The Patriots have been much more impressive against dog-awful teams.And if I may interrupt this belaboring-of-the-obvious thread, the proper way to represent a phrase acting as a single concept is with internal hyphens not wrapping it in quotation marks.
 
Colin Dowling said:
David Yudkin said:
Colin Dowling said:
I think it's a little early to talk about them being the greatest of all time, etc.
Click to expand...
As I mentioned in one of the other threads, all this banter and debate is wasted as NOTHING matters in September/October.I'll start getting hyped over stuff like this when they play the Super Bowl on Halloween.
Click to expand...
I guess the reason it grates on me is that I read everything NFL that I can find during the season (as I'm sure most of you do too). It just gets a little tiresome for the first 400 column words to be the same story week in and week out. They're awesome, I get it. But let's let the season play out a little before we forget there are a handful of other teams playing really great football as well.
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I guess that's where we differ, as I ignore fluff and most of the time blather and opinion of people that I think are just stirring the spot of filling up a page with dribble.This year in particular the reporting of things as fact when they are either A) wrong, B) speculative, C) opinion, or worse D) false has me researching things more as it seems that the media is all out to break a story without doing their own due diligence to verify the information.I live in NE, so I have pretty much zoned out a lot of the crazy talk, and I think most respectable people in the media don't even go there. It's the national media that is jumping the shark here and getting on the bandwagon, but I doubt anyone close to the team is really tooting their horns at all yet.I also think spanning back over the Patriot years that one of the knocks on these very boards was that sure, the Pats won a lot (and many games in a row) but they were BARELY winning. The argument back in the day was that if they were really a great team they would be blowing people out by 2 TD every game. Now that they are beating teams by THREE TD. the knock is their competition isn't very good.I say, whatever. But they can only play the teams on their schedule . . .
 
Bankerguy said:
Colin Dowling said:
Evilgrin 72 said:
I think it's stemming from the fact that :a) They've won every game by 21+ pointsb) They beat the Chargers and bengals, whom many believe are better than their records would indicate.c) They've done this without Seymour and Harrison, who are difference makers (per the Pats) on defense.
Click to expand...
All good points. I think that the shine is off the Chargers and Bengals though.
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Frig even the Browns "scored at will" against the Bengals and more then the Pats did.
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Good point!So, how can the Pats be the best ever? They aren't even as good as the Browns when it comes to playing the Bengals! :shrug:
 
I say, whatever. But they can only play the teams on their schedule . .
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Certainly. THey are a great 4-0. I'm really looking forward to seeing if the Cowboys can slow them down. I have little doubt, IMO, that the Cowboys can score with them. Should be a good one.
 
They're good, but the 89 or 94 Niners would have their way with them. As far as dynasties rank, they still have a way to go.

Also, *

 
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The_Man said:
To be honest, I'm starting to get a little bummed out by the NFL. Feels like the mid to late 90s when the only games that mattered all season long were Dallas-SF and the entire rest of the season was window dressing. NE-Indy might be the only game that matters now.
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Which is why we invented fantasy football. We don't care about these teams, how the game has become hybrid basketball where injurious hitting is more important than fundamental tackling -- where single players (most likely quarterback) are the make or break -- where every week some different unknown wide receiver puts up multiple TDs and hundreds of yards -- where its mostly RBBC because the running games don't really matter that much -- where the neutral zone doesn't exist any more...need I go on?
 
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Colin Dowling said:
I say, whatever. But they can only play the teams on their schedule . .
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Certainly. THey are a great 4-0. I'm really looking forward to seeing if the Cowboys can slow them down. I have little doubt, IMO, that the Cowboys can score with them. Should be a good one.
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Actually, as a Cowboys fan, I have A LOT of doubt that Dallas can keep up with them. I suspect that Romo will be like many other young QB and get hoodwinked by the Belichick scheming that Manning fell prey to early on. My guess would be that Dallas will be held to 21-24 points with a late TD getting them that many. And I don't see the Dallas defense keeping the Pats under 30.IMO, the Cowboys are playing a bit over their heads right now, and the same exact arguments people are making against the Pats hold true to Dallas. IIRC, they've beaten all Bottom 10 defenses in terms of points allowed.
 
The_Man said:
To be honest, I'm starting to get a little bummed out by the NFL. Feels like the mid to late 90s when the only games that mattered all season long were Dallas-SF and the entire rest of the season was window dressing. NE-Indy might be the only game that matters now.
Click to expand...
The "parity" brought about by the salary cap is an illusion. Instead of 1 or 2 dominant teams, now we have a handful with a small amount of turnover in the upstart pretenders every once in a while. One could argue that the NE-Indy game was the only game that really mattered for the last couple of years.Still it's way better than the system that was in place before.
 
Colin Dowling said:
David Yudkin said:
Colin Dowling said:
I think it's a little early to talk about them being the greatest of all time, etc.
Click to expand...
As I mentioned in one of the other threads, all this banter and debate is wasted as NOTHING matters in September/October.I'll start getting hyped over stuff like this when they play the Super Bowl on Halloween.
Click to expand...
I guess the reason it grates on me is that I read everything NFL that I can find during the season (as I'm sure most of you do too). It just gets a little tiresome for the first 400 column words to be the same story week in and week out. They're awesome, I get it. But let's let the season play out a little before we forget there are a handful of other teams playing really great football as well.
Click to expand...
So the real problem isn't so much whether NE's success this year is outshining every other team's success, it's whether the media is too blindly focused on following one another's lead in terms of the stories they think people want to read, and then beating that horse to death, rather than insightful, balanced, and all-inclusive reporting.
 
After 5 weeks last season the Bears were 5-0 and had won 4 of there 5 games by more than 25 points. They had outscored their opponent by a margin of 156/36. That Bears team did go on to the SB, but they looked quite beatable later in the season and certainly didn't look like a team for the ages.

New England looks awesome right now. But it's still just 4 weeks into a long season.

 
Colin Dowling said:
So everyone is all up in it with the Patriots. The national press is tossing on the praise. Someone on the message board here called them the best team since the '85 Bears. Bill Simmons (admitted NE homer) thinks they are "the best team in the last 15 years." I certainly can see the argument that 4 weeks in they are the best team of the 2007 NFL season. However, the notion that this is one of the best teams of all time after a mere 4 weeks is bothersome. To the numbers...The Patriots have beaten four 1-3 teams. Comparatively, the Colts four opponents are a combined 6-8. Not stellar, but the Titans and Broncos are inarguably EONS better then the Jets and Bills. (The Cowboys opponents are a combined 3-11. The Packers opponents are a combined 5-7)The Patriots are scoring 37 points per game, including a couple "the game is already decided" scores that they are most certainly entitled to. The Cowboys are scoring 37.75 points per game. The Colts are scoring 32.75 against much tougher competition defensively. The Packers lag at 26.25 per game.Tom Brady: 79.2, 9.3, 13TDs, 2 IntsTony Romo: 59.5%, 9.9ypa, 13 TDs, 3 IntsPeyton Manning: 67.2, 8.3, 9TD, 1 IntBrett Favre: 65.9, 7.2, 8 TD, 2 IntDefensively, the Patriots shake out as "excellent" as expected. But there are two 3-1 teams that have allowed fewer points. There are three teams allowing fewer points per game. THere are three teams allowing fewer pass yards per game. THere are two teams allowing fewer rush yards per game. On and on and on and on.Despite what I'm sure will be posted here, I'm not bagging on the Pats. I think they are playing wonderful football and I look forward to seeing them play the Cowboys and the Colts, among others. My big thing is that I don't see what the big deal is, at least not yet. They've dominated some bad teams and are statistically similar to a handful of other teams. Isn't this what we go throw on a regular basis?
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Billyboy is considered an alltime great coach. Billyboy is given all the credit for pushing the 2001 team with questionable talent over the top. They feel this is the best team he's ever had in New England. Now its the top coach with his best talent and there is the case. That's not an answer that will probably satisfy someone such as yourself that wants to look at the stats that closely, but that is why.
 
Colin, I see a lot of reeeeaching in your rationalization here. To me you have only solidified how good the Pats are because of it. Everyone is talking about how impressive the Pats are playing right now because it's pretty darn obvious they are dominating at a level we have not recently seen. Can they continue the pace? Not likely, just let time run its course.

 
Wadsworth said:
After 5 weeks last season the Bears were 5-0 and had won 4 of there 5 games by more than 25 points. They had outscored their opponent by a margin of 156/36. That Bears team did go on to the SB, but they looked quite beatable later in the season and certainly didn't look like a team for the ages. New England looks awesome right now. But it's still just 4 weeks into a long season.
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The thing is, the Bears' defense slipped later in the season, while the Patriots' defense looks to get Harrison and Seymour back and has a lot more playoff success than the Bears' last year. The Bears' offense started out hot, but Brady is arguably even better than Rex Grossman. Lovie Smith was a coach of the year candidate, but some would say Belichick is pretty good, too. The reason people are talking about the Patriots possibly doing this is that this is a team that has gone 14-2 more than once, won multiple Superbowls with most of the same core players, and staved off the week to week letdowns by playing every game like it's the most important one on the schedule. And yet this year's version looks like far and away the best they've had. It may be boring to people who are sick of the Patriots, and honestly, watching a 20 point blowout each week isn't nearly as fun as some of the nailbiters that the Pats used to give us, but there's really almost no limit to how good this team might be. The Patriots have punted five times this season through four games. That's insane, but we all know about that already. How about this, though: in 30 possessions, they have four turnovers, one missed field goal, one failed snap on a field goal, five completed field goals, and 19 touchdowns. In other words, they're converting 63% of their POSSESSIONS into touchdowns. 23 teams in the NFL are converting fewer than 63% of their RED ZONE OPPORTUNITIES into touchdowns. They're converting 80% of their POSSESSIONS into points, which would beat ten teams' ability to score in the red zone. Let me drive that home for a minute: if the Patriots were up against one of the bottom ten teams in the NFL, you could have them each start every possession at the Patriots 20, and the Patriots would still be favored. Brady's got 13 TDs through 4 games, and that's with Stallworth just starting to come on. The running game's dinged up but more than effective enough and the passing offense is good enough to carry the team each week. They're on pace for 52, and while they face a lot of good teams on that schedule, all of them have been beatable through the air. 50 isn't outside the realm of possibility. How great is that? On its own, maybe not very. It's still early. But add in the #2 rushing offense and the #1 defense in the NFL so far, and the fact that this team just crushed another team without Maroney, Harrison, Seymour and others, all of whom should be coming back soon. Yes, it's early. And three months from now, we may be talking about how hard the mighty have fallen or wondering what might have been if only they'd kept up the pace. But right now, after watching a perfect September, it's fun to speculate about 19-0 or 50 TDs or any of the things that this team might be capable of. It's everything you could want as a fan in the regular season.
 
Why don't we agree to talk about this when they are 14-0?

4-0 means nothing! No matter how good they look now!

This includes the Colts, Packers, Cowboys, and Patriots!!!

These threads make it difficult to come to the Shark Pool.

 
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