Pro Bowl voting - fan voting over (1 Viewer)

I started this thread in the Shark Pool last week. I'm hoping a post here generates some more discussion on the defensive side of the ball.

My defensive selections, so far:

AFC

DE: Jared Allen, Dwight Freeney, Jason Taylor

DT: Albert Haynesworth, Amobi Okoye, Marcus Stroud

OLB: Donnie Edwards, James Harrison, Shawn Merriman

ILB: Ray Lewis, DeMeco Ryans

CB: Champ Bailey, Leigh Bodden, Terrence McGee

SS: Bob Sanders

FS: Madieu Williams

NFC

DE: Trent Cole, Aaron Kampman, Osi Umenyiora

DT: Darnell Dockett, Tommie Harris, Pat Williams

OLB: Julian Peterson, Ernie Sims, Demarcus Ware

ILB: London Fletcher, Barrett Ruud

CB: Nate Clements, Marcus Trufant, Charles Woodson

SS: Adrian Wilson

FS: Sean Taylor

As an IDPer, most of these guys are seen with FF-colored glasses. What players am I missing that are better "NFL" players, and more deserving of a Pro Bowl vote than the guys I've picked?

ETA: Week 10 updates

Jason Taylor is a fixture at AFC DE and this year is no different.

Dwight Freeney probably has had underwhelming numbers for his contributions.

Julian Peterson and Brian Urlacher deserve to stay on the squad.

Gold Dragon said:

Jason Taylor is a fixture at AFC DE and this year is no different.

Dwight Freeney probably has had underwhelming numbers for his contributions.

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Granted, I haven't watched Taylor play much this year, but I was under the impression that Miami's D as a whole was underperforming this year. Is Taylor absolutely a top 3 AFC DE this year? Freeney?Jared Allen, Dwight Freeney and Jason Taylor? It sounds good, but is that because of what they're doing this year or because of what they've done in the past?

Gold Dragon said:

Julian Peterson and Brian Urlacher deserve to stay on the squad.

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I've heard conflicting opinions on Urlacher now. At the moment I think Ruud and Barnett (at least) are more deserving.Peterson doesn't look like a bad candidate, and I'll admit my current NFC OLB selections don't look quite right, but there seem to be a lot of good NFC OLBs. Sims, Brooks and Briggs all probably deserve consideration as well.

Awesome topic Sidewinder. You're exactly right that this forum will probably err on the side of statistics, while the player/fan voting will err on the side of names and reputation. I tried to put a nice mix of both on my team, with the "rep" guys those that are still performing at a high level.

The NFC is clearly better than the AFC right now and it's interesting that I really didn't consider anyone on the Pats defense. Samuel, Warren, Wilfork and Thomas have arguments, I suppose, but I couldn't see bumping anyone on my list for them. The NFC is sick. Andre Carter, Charles Grant, Marques Douglas, Ernie Sims, Lance Briggs, London Fletcher, Patrick Willis, Al Harris, Roman Harper and Atari Bigby all were strong considerations that didn't make my cut.

AFC PRO BOWL SELECTIONS

DE (3) – Jared Allen, Jason Taylor, Elvis Dumervil

DT (3) – Albert Haynesworth, Marcus Stroud, Jamal Williams (NT)

OLB (3) – Shawne Merriman, Shaun Phillips, Donnie Edwards

ILB (3) – DeMeco Ryans, Ray Lewis, Kirk Morrison

CB (3) – Champ Bailey, Leigh Bodden, Rashean Mathis

FS (2) – Bob Sanders, Madieu Williams

SS (2) – Donte Whitner, Troy Polamalu

NFC PRO BOWL SELECTIONS

DE (3) – Osi Umenyiora, Aaron Kampman, Trent Cole

DT (3) – Darnell Dockett, Tommie Harris, Pat Williams (NT)

OLB (3) – Demarcus Ware, Michael Boley, Julian Peterson

ILB (3) – Barrett Ruud, Nick Barnett, Brian Urlacher

CB (3) – Marcus Trufant, Ronde Barber, Nate Clements

FS (2) – Sean Taylor, Brian Dawkins

SS (2) – Adrian Wilson, Darren Sharper

Thanks for the input, Jene.

Just as an FYI for everyone, you can only select 2 ILB and 1 each of FS and SS on the official ballot (Link). It seems silly to have 2 ballot votes for centers but you can only select one FS and SS, but that's the way it is.

I'll probably adjust a number of my selections based on yours, but I'm hoping you might expound on a few selections.

I could be wrong, but I thought Tommie Harris has been dinged up this year and been in and out of games. If that's true, is a guy Pro Bowl worthy if he misses a significant amount of time? Or, are there just no other DTs that should replace him, injury-hampered or not.

Can you sell Elvis Dumervil to me? I haven't seen the Broncos much this year and I guess I'm missing any buzz out there re: Dumervil. I thought Denver had a pretty heavy DL rotation. Is Dumervil a situational guy or is he an every down force?

Did I go too heavy on stats guys with my CBs? I want to say that Ronde Barber is a rep guy. Is Antoine Winfield (at least) not a better selection this year?

Sidewinder16 said:

I could be wrong, but I thought Tommie Harris has been dinged up this year and been in and out of games. If that's true, is a guy Pro Bowl worthy if he misses a significant amount of time? Or, are there just no other DTs that should replace him, injury-hampered or not.

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My philosophy here was to vote for the best players with a slight skewing toward this season's play or an established career in close situations. Dockett was an easy first choice at DT, where I think it's reasonable to consider him eligible, and I like Harris "healthy" game better than the short resume of a guy like Jovan Haye or an inconsistent guy like Shaun Rogers.

Sidewinder16 said:

Can you sell Elvis Dumervil to me? I haven't seen the Broncos much this year and I guess I'm missing any buzz out there re: Dumervil. I thought Denver had a pretty heavy DL rotation. Is Dumervil a situational guy or is he an every down force?

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That was the toughest position for me to fill. Dumervil isn't an every down force, but he's elevated his game this year. In the category of stud edge rusher, which always seems to get the love, Dumervil beats out guys like Freeney for me thus far. Freeney would've been as reasonable a pick I guess. I'm just not seeing any of the 3-4 ends (and that's a fair amount of the AFC at this point) having a Pro Bowl impact on the field.

Sidewinder16 said:

Did I go too heavy on stats guys with my CBs? I want to say that Ronde Barber is a rep guy. Is Antoine Winfield (at least) not a better selection this year?

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Barber is a rep guy this year. But he's still among the best run supporting, ball hawking corners in the league. Winfield's coverage skills aren't nearly that of Barber. Winfield makes his name on his physical style of play more than raw talent. He's in the discussion, but not a clear Pro Bowler to me.

If picking based on form shown this season Howard Thomas OAK LB deserves some consideration. He leads our league in average scoring per game for for all IDPs. His year to date line of 31 solos, 4 interceptions, 1 sack and 7 pass defensed is a solid line.

Sidewinder16 said:

Granted, I haven't watched Taylor play much this year, but I was under the impression that Miami's D as a whole was underperforming this year. Is Taylor absolutely a top 3 AFC DE this year? Freeney?

Jared Allen, Dwight Freeney and Jason Taylor? It sounds good, but is that because of what they're doing this year or because of what they've done in the past?

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The Miami D is underperforming but from what I understand, Taylor has been his usual self. Dumervil was my other consideration for AFC DE but I was under the impression that Freeney was still being his dominant disruptive self while not really getting the stats to show it. Being in Australia, I've only been reading and listening to a few games so I can't really say with too much certainty.

Sidewinder16 said:

I've heard conflicting opinions on Urlacher now. At the moment I think Ruud and Barnett (at least) are more deserving.

Peterson doesn't look like a bad candidate, and I'll admit my current NFC OLB selections don't look quite right, but there seem to be a lot of good NFC OLBs. Sims, Brooks and Briggs all probably deserve consideration as well.

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You may be right about Urlacher but I think a player of his level needs a significant drop in production to get kicked out of the Probowl. Jene, I don't think Brian Dawkins deserves to be considered this year from all his injuries and lack of production.

Jene Bramel said:

DE (3) – Jared Allen, Jason Taylor, Elvis Dumervil

DT (3) – Albert Haynesworth, Marcus Stroud, Jamal Williams (NT)

OLB (3) – Shawne Merriman, Shaun Phillips, Donnie Edwards

ILB (3) – DeMeco Ryans, Ray Lewis, Kirk Morrison

CB (3) – Champ Bailey, Leigh Bodden, Rashean Mathis

FS (2) – Bob Sanders, Madieu Williams

SS (2) – Donte Whitner, Troy Polamalu

NFC PRO BOWL SELECTIONS

DE (3) – Osi Umenyiora, Aaron Kampman, Trent Cole

DT (3) – Darnell Dockett, Tommie Harris, Pat Williams (NT)

OLB (3) – Demarcus Ware, Michael Boley, Julian Peterson

ILB (3) – Barrett Ruud, Nick Barnett, Brian Urlacher

CB (3) – Marcus Trufant, Ronde Barber, Nate Clements

FS (2) – Sean Taylor, Brian Dawkins

SS (2) – Adrian Wilson, Darren Sharper

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I agree that Allen is deserving, in fact he's the most dominant defensive lineman in football right now - but is he ineligble? I remember after the whole Merriman thing from last year, isn't there a rule about the pro-bowl and suspensions?

An update to my selections:

AFC

DE: Jared Allen, Dwight Freeney, Jason Taylor

DT: Albert Haynesworth, Amobi Okoye, Marcus Stroud

OLB: Angelo Crowell, Donnie Edwards, Shawn Merriman

ILB: Ray Lewis, DeMeco Ryans

CB: Champ Bailey, Leigh Bodden, Terrence McGee

SS: Bob Sanders

FS: Madieu Williams

NFC

DE: Aaron Kampman, Trent Cole, Osi Umenyiora

DT: Darnell Dockett, Tommie Harris, Pat Williams

OLB: Michael Boley, Rocky McIntosh, Demarcus Ware

ILB: Barrett Ruud, Nick Barnett

CB: Marcus Trufant, Ronde Barber, Nate Clements

SS: Atari Bigby

FS: Sean Taylor

Anybody think any of these really stands out as undeserving, or considerably less deserving than someone else?

Gold Dragon said:

You may be right about Urlacher but I think a player of his level needs a significant drop in production to get kicked out of the Probowl.

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I think a lot is dependent on the play of others. Urlacher may not be the suck this year, but there are enough MLBs in the NFC that are playing better than him this year. I think it would be more of a travesty for some of the other guys to miss than for Urlacher to miss.

radiohead417 said:

I agree that Allen is deserving, in fact he's the most dominant defensive lineman in football right now - but is he ineligble? I remember after the whole Merriman thing from last year, isn't there a rule about the pro-bowl and suspensions?

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Allen is on the ballot, so I'd hope he was eligible. It would suck if the NFL allowed the fans to vote in a player then say "Nope, you can't go".

Sidewinder16 said:

An update to my selections:AFCDE: Jared Allen, Dwight Freeney, Jason TaylorDT: Albert Haynesworth, Amobi Okoye, Marcus StroudOLB: Angelo Crowell, Donnie Edwards, Shawn MerrimanILB: Ray Lewis, DeMeco RyansCB: Champ Bailey, Leigh Bodden, Terrence McGeeSS: Bob SandersFS: Madieu WilliamsNFCDE: Aaron Kampman, Trent Cole, Osi UmenyioraDT: Darnell Dockett, Tommie Harris, Pat WilliamsOLB: Michael Boley, Rocky McIntosh, Demarcus WareILB: Barrett Ruud, Nick BarnettCB: Marcus Trufant, Ronde Barber, Nate ClementsSS: Atari BigbyFS: Sean TaylorAnybody think any of these really stands out as undeserving, or considerably less deserving than someone else?

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I think Crowell and McIntosh are debatable. In the discussion, but I don't think McIntosh has a slot over Peterson among others.

Sidewinder16 said:

An update to my selections:AFCDE: Jared Allen, Dwight Freeney, Jason TaylorDT: Albert Haynesworth, Amobi Okoye, Marcus StroudOLB: Angelo Crowell, Donnie Edwards, Shawn MerrimanILB: Ray Lewis, DeMeco RyansCB: Champ Bailey, Leigh Bodden, Terrence McGeeSS: Bob SandersFS: Madieu WilliamsNFCDE: Aaron Kampman, Trent Cole, Osi UmenyioraDT: Darnell Dockett, Tommie Harris, Pat WilliamsOLB: Michael Boley, Rocky McIntosh, Demarcus WareILB: Barrett Ruud, Nick BarnettCB: Marcus Trufant, Ronde Barber, Nate ClementsSS: Atari BigbyFS: Sean TaylorAnybody think any of these really stands out as undeserving, or considerably less deserving than someone else?

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Ive been less than impressed with Barber this year - if anyone on the Bucs deserves to make it at CB, it's actually Philip Buchanon! Sheldon Brown, Sam Madison, Antoine Winfield, and Anthony Henry (pre-injury) are all playing very well this year.

Jene Bramel said:

Barber is a rep guy this year. But he's still among the best run supporting, ball hawking corners in the league. Winfield's coverage skills aren't nearly that of Barber. Winfield makes his name on his physical style of play more than raw talent. He's in the discussion, but not a clear Pro Bowler to me.

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Sigmund Bloom said:

Ive been less than impressed with Barber this year - if anyone on the Bucs deserves to make it at CB, it's actually Philip Buchanon! Sheldon Brown, Sam Madison, Antoine Winfield, and Anthony Henry (pre-injury) are all playing very well this year.

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Now I'm conflicted. I originally had Henry and Winfield in, before Bramel's postings. I also agree that Buchanon should be considered.Since I originally had reservations about making Barber a selection this year, and Bloom has provided some validation for those reservations, maybe I'll make a(nother) switch.

Sidewinder16 said:

Jene Bramel said:

Barber is a rep guy this year. But he's still among the best run supporting, ball hawking corners in the league. Winfield's coverage skills aren't nearly that of Barber. Winfield makes his name on his physical style of play more than raw talent. He's in the discussion, but not a clear Pro Bowler to me.

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Sigmund Bloom said:

Ive been less than impressed with Barber this year - if anyone on the Bucs deserves to make it at CB, it's actually Philip Buchanon! Sheldon Brown, Sam Madison, Antoine Winfield, and Anthony Henry (pre-injury) are all playing very well this year.

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Now I'm conflicted. I originally had Henry and Winfield in, before Bramel's postings. I also agree that Buchanon should be considered.Since I originally had reservations about making Barber a selection this year, and Bloom has provided some validation for those reservations, maybe I'll make a(nother) switch.

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Nobody, other than Marcus Trufant, has really impressed me this year. I wanted to consider guys like Aaron Ross and Anthony Henry, but Ross has too little of a resume and Henry, while having nice ball skills gets burned way too often in man coverage.I've no argument with Winfield; I chose Barber and Clements more on their history of solid cover play and run support than their current play. The entire list of NFC CBs is meh for me.

Jene Bramel said:

Sidewinder16 said:

Jene Bramel said:

Barber is a rep guy this year. But he's still among the best run supporting, ball hawking corners in the league. Winfield's coverage skills aren't nearly that of Barber. Winfield makes his name on his physical style of play more than raw talent. He's in the discussion, but not a clear Pro Bowler to me.

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Sigmund Bloom said:

Ive been less than impressed with Barber this year - if anyone on the Bucs deserves to make it at CB, it's actually Philip Buchanon! Sheldon Brown, Sam Madison, Antoine Winfield, and Anthony Henry (pre-injury) are all playing very well this year.

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Now I'm conflicted. I originally had Henry and Winfield in, before Bramel's postings. I also agree that Buchanon should be considered.Since I originally had reservations about making Barber a selection this year, and Bloom has provided some validation for those reservations, maybe I'll make a(nother) switch.

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Nobody, other than Marcus Trufant, has really impressed me this year. I wanted to consider guys like Aaron Ross and Anthony Henry, but Ross has too little of a resume and Henry, while having nice ball skills gets burned way too often in man coverage.I've no argument with Winfield; I chose Barber and Clements more on their history of solid cover play and run support than their current play. The entire list of NFC CBs is meh for me.

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Agreed on Trufant... how could I leave him out

Polamalu is not playing at a pro bowl level this year IMO.

AhrnCityPahnder said:

Polamalu is not playing at a pro bowl level this year IMO.

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Always appreciate a homer's insight. As important as it is to identify who to vote in, it's also pretty important to mark the guys that should not be considered.As I mentioned before, the ballot only allows for 1 SS and 1 FS selection, which is pretty silly IMO. I think Bob Sanders really stands out for the AFC at SS. Jene had listed Donte Whitner at SS (he had Sanders at FS; not sure who he would give precedence at SS) who probably deserves to be thought about, but I don't see a more dominant SS in the game right now than Sanders.

Kevin and Pat Williams both deserve to make it.

Sidewinder16 said:

AhrnCityPahnder said:

Polamalu is not playing at a pro bowl level this year IMO.

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Always appreciate a homer's insight. As important as it is to identify who to vote in, it's also pretty important to mark the guys that should not be considered.As I mentioned before, the ballot only allows for 1 SS and 1 FS selection, which is pretty silly IMO. I think Bob Sanders really stands out for the AFC at SS. Jene had listed Donte Whitner at SS (he had Sanders at FS; not sure who he would give precedence at SS) who probably deserves to be thought about, but I don't see a more dominant SS in the game right now than Sanders.

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I think Sanders is the best defensive player in the NFL right now.

Updated OP with week 8 updates.

Which players am I glaringly missing and/or stubbornly keeping in?

Bigby's PI calls diminished him in my mind - probably go with Adrian Wilson at this point.

Sigmund Bloom said:

Bigby's PI calls diminished him in my mind - probably go with Adrian Wilson at this point.

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Yeah, I keep forgetting about him. Does he definitely get in over Jermaine Phillips, IYO?

Sidewinder16 said:

Sigmund Bloom said:

Bigby's PI calls diminished him in my mind - probably go with Adrian Wilson at this point.

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Yeah, I keep forgetting about him. Does he definitely get in over Jermaine Phillips, IYO?

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Phillips hasnt been bringing the lumber the way he was earlier in the year. I prefer Wilson.

man, i need to hang out in the IDP forum more.

Atari is playing his way out of contention for any post-season honors. unless other SS' are having the same trouble covering the TE week in and week out and are getting flagged 2-3 times per game.... he has to be getting consideration based on tackles alone.

Sidewinder16 said:

AFCDE: Jared Allen, Dwight Freeney, Jason TaylorDT: Albert Haynesworth, Amobi Okoye, Marcus StroudOLB: Donnie Edwards, Shawn Merriman, Shaun PhillipsILB: Ray Lewis, DeMeco RyansCB: Champ Bailey, Leigh Bodden, Terrence McGeeSS: Bob SandersFS: Madieu WilliamsNFCDE: Trent Cole, Aaron Kampman, Osi UmenyioraDT: Darnell Dockett, Tommie Harris, Pat WilliamsOLB: Julian Peterson, Ernie Sims, Demarcus WareILB: London Fletcher, Barrett RuudCB: Marcus Trufant, Ronde Barber, Nate ClementsSS: Adrian WilsonFS: Sean Taylor

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Week 9 update. Atari out, Wilson in.Barnett and Willis both have a strong case for NFC ILB, but I'm staying with Fletcher and Ruud for the moment (I own them both ).David Harris now has more tackles than Ray-Ray. I'm not advocating Harris for Pro Bowl over Lewis (yet ), just thought that was impressive.I really want to get Barber out. To be honest, I haven't seen him play this year, but something tells me his Pro Bowl days are over. I really want to put Winfield and/or Henry in there (probably remove Clements, too). Tell me I'm right/wrong.

Sidewinder16 said:

I really want to get Barber out. To be honest, I haven't seen him play this year, but something tells me his Pro Bowl days are over. I really want to put Winfield and/or Henry in there (probably remove Clements, too).

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Charles Woodson?

dgreen said:

Sidewinder16 said:

I really want to get Barber out. To be honest, I haven't seen him play this year, but something tells me his Pro Bowl days are over. I really want to put Winfield and/or Henry in there (probably remove Clements, too).

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Charles Woodson?

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Hmmmm, yes, another good consideration I've been forgetting. Better than Henry? Clements?

As a Bills fan, I pride myself in never over valuing the players on their roster when it comes to complaining about seeing them named to or left off any post season All Pro or Pro Bowl teams,....but this year, there may be a few equal, but I don't think you can leave Donte Whitner off the AFC Pro Bowl roster.

I think I read correctly the other day that he hasn't missed a down yet.

In only his second season, he has become the leader of a young and improving defense.

Statisically his tackle and sack numbers aren't screaming for post season accolades and he will probably be left off the Pro Bowl team, but I really hope he gets some serious consideration.

On The Rocks said:

As a Bills fan, I pride myself in never over valuing the players on their roster when it comes to complaining about seeing them named to or left off any post season All Pro or Pro Bowl teams,....but this year, there may be a few equal, but I don't think you can leave Donte Whitner off the AFC Pro Bowl roster.I think I read correctly the other day that he hasn't missed a down yet.In only his second season, he has become the leader of a young and improving defense.Statisically his tackle and sack numbers aren't screaming for post season accolades and he will probably be left off the Pro Bowl team, but I really hope he gets some serious consideration.

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I don't disagree that Whitner is performing at a Pro Bowl level, but unfortunately, the way the ballot is set up, I believe you have to leave Whitner off. You're only allowed to vote for one SS in each conference, and I just can't see voting for Whitner over Bob Sanders.They really, really need to allow two votes at SS and FS, but they don't.

Two and a half weeks later. Changes in RED. Okay, okay, I'll play by the rules... .

AFC PRO BOWL SELECTIONS

DE (3) – Jared Allen, Jason Taylor, Dwight Freeney

DT (3) – Albert Haynesworth, Haloti Ngata, Jamal Williams (NT)

OLB (3) – Shawne Merriman, Mike Vrabel, James Harrison

ILB (2) – DeMeco Ryans, Ray Lewis

CB (3) – Champ Bailey, Leigh Bodden, Rashean Mathis

FS (1) – Madieu Williams

SS (1) – Bob Sanders

NFC PRO BOWL SELECTIONS

DE (3) – Osi Umenyiora, Aaron Kampman, Trent Cole

DT (3) – Darnell Dockett, Tommie Harris, Pat Williams (NT)

OLB (3) – Demarcus Ware, Michael Boley, Julian Peterson

ILB (2) – Barrett Ruud, Patrick Willis

CB (3) – Marcus Trufant, Charles Woodson, Nate Clements

FS (1) – Sean Taylor

SS (1) – Adrian Wilson

Jene Bramel said:

FS (2) – Bob Sanders

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Why do you list Sanders at FS (you did it previously, too)?

Sidewinder16 said:

Jene Bramel said:

FS (2) – Bob Sanders

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Why do you list Sanders at FS (you did it previously, too)?

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Edited my post to play by the rules.

Jene Bramel said:

Sidewinder16 said:

Jene Bramel said:

FS (2) – Bob Sanders

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Why do you list Sanders at FS (you did it previously, too)?

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Edited my post to play by the rules.

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I don't care about the extra players. I was just curious about the FS designation for Sanders. IIRC, I've always seen him listed as a SS. I wasn't sure if your listing was just a slip up, or if there was another reason you considered him a FS. If the latter, I wanted to hear more. When Jene Bramel speaks, IDPers listen.

Sidewinder16 said:

Jene Bramel said:

Sidewinder16 said:

Jene Bramel said:

FS (2) – Bob Sanders

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Why do you list Sanders at FS (you did it previously, too)?

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Edited my post to play by the rules.

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I don't care about the extra players. I was just curious about the FS designation for Sanders. IIRC, I've always seen him listed as a SS. I wasn't sure if your listing was just a slip up, or if there was another reason you considered him a FS. If the latter, I wanted to hear more.

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It was a little of both. Sanders played a lot of FS before Bethea was drafted (Mike Doss at SS) and I still think of him in that vein despite the Colts clearly moving him in the box this season more than they ever have in the past. I didn't look at the NFL.com voting ballot until tonight, so I was skirting the question a bit to recognize Whitner in some respects as well.

Sidewinder16 said:

AFCDE: Jared Allen, Dwight Freeney, Jason TaylorDT: Albert Haynesworth, Amobi Okoye, Marcus StroudOLB: Donnie Edwards, James Harrison, Shawn MerrimanILB: Ray Lewis, DeMeco RyansCB: Champ Bailey, Leigh Bodden, Terrence McGeeSS: Bob SandersFS: Madieu WilliamsNFCDE: Trent Cole, Aaron Kampman, Osi UmenyioraDT: Darnell Dockett, Tommie Harris, Pat WilliamsOLB: Julian Peterson, Ernie Sims, Demarcus WareILB: London Fletcher, Barrett RuudCB: Nate Clements, Marcus Trufant, Charles WoodsonSS: Adrian WilsonFS: Sean Taylor

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Week 10 updates.If Sean Taylor misses significant time, who might get the nod over him? Or should he stay in, even if he's out for a long time?

Jene Bramel said:

Sidewinder16 said:

Can you sell Elvis Dumervil to me? I haven't seen the Broncos much this year and I guess I'm missing any buzz out there re: Dumervil. I thought Denver had a pretty heavy DL rotation. Is Dumervil a situational guy or is he an every down force?

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That was the toughest position for me to fill. Dumervil isn't an every down force, but he's elevated his game this year. In the category of stud edge rusher, which always seems to get the love, Dumervil beats out guys like Freeney for me thus far. Freeney would've been as reasonable a pick I guess. I'm just not seeing any of the 3-4 ends (and that's a fair amount of the AFC at this point) having a Pro Bowl impact on the field.

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Jene, with Freeney on IR now, would you put Dumervil back on your ballot? His big play numbers are pretty impressive. 8 sacks, 1 INT, 4 PDs, 3 FFs, 1 FR.

Two more weeks -- season flies by.

Changes in red.

AFC: I suppose I have to remove Freeney due to injury -- I'll put Dumervil back in there since I had him there before. I'd really like to get Ed Johnson into the DT rotation, but the league has historically had a NT in the mix and I still think Ngata is underappreciated. I'm very close to booting Merriman in favor of Bulluck. Some of his decline is scheme, but he's being blocked much easier than last year and the argument that 19 of my 20 drug tests were clean is looking more suspicious by the week. Mike Peterson is pushing Ray Lewis again. I'm still waiting for someone to challenge Mathis at corner, but can't get behind Samuel or McGee or McAlister yet. And I can't support Madieu any longer so we'll go with the best talent regardless of play.

AFC PRO BOWL SELECTIONS

DE (3) – Jared Allen, Jason Taylor, Elvis Dumervil

DT (3) – Albert Haynesworth, Haloti Ngata, Jamal Williams (NT)

OLB (3) – Shawne Merriman, Mike Vrabel, James Harrison

ILB (2) – DeMeco Ryans, Ray Lewis

CB (3) – Champ Bailey, Leigh Bodden, Rashean Mathis

FS (1) – Ed Reed

SS (1) – Bob Sanders

NFC: Essentially standing pat here, although both LB positions are wide open. Brian Dawkins may have something to say about it by year's end, but Gibril Wilson has been playing well enough to push Taylor out due to injury for now. Clements is still shaky at corner.

NFC PRO BOWL SELECTIONS

DE (3) – Osi Umenyiora, Aaron Kampman, Trent Cole

DT (3) – Darnell Dockett, Tommie Harris, Pat Williams (NT)

OLB (3) – Demarcus Ware, Michael Boley, Julian Peterson

ILB (2) – Barrett Ruud, Patrick Willis

CB (3) – Marcus Trufant, Charles Woodson, Nate Clements

FS (1) – Gibril Wilson

SS (1) – Adrian Wilson

Sidewinder16 said:

DT: Albert Haynesworth, Amobi Okoye, Marcus Stroud

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For those playing at home, Stroud is off the ballot, most likely because of his recent suspension.

Jene Bramel said:

Gibril Wilson has been playing well enough to push Taylor out due to injury for now.

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I think Taylor's value has been evident since he left against Philly. The Skins D has given up 6 passing TDs since he left and most of those were thrown to an area Taylor vacated.I know PBs aren't given for such reasons, but the value of Taylor's play this year is being shown in his absence. I think it would be a shame for him to lose a PB bid because of a couple missed games.As mentioned, though, allowing only one vote for each safety spot is creating some hard decisions here.

dgreen said:

Jene Bramel said:

Gibril Wilson has been playing well enough to push Taylor out due to injury for now.

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I think Taylor's value has been evident since he left against Philly. The Skins D has given up 6 passing TDs since he left and most of those were thrown to an area Taylor vacated.I know PBs aren't given for such reasons, but the value of Taylor's play this year is being shown in his absence. I think it would be a shame for him to lose a PB bid because of a couple missed games.As mentioned, though, allowing only one vote for each safety spot is creating some hard decisions here.

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Certainly would've been very interesting to see how Taylor chose to defend the Cowboy passing game yesterday. Pinch down on Witten, cheat toward Owens or stay home and use your recovery speed to get to wherever Romo chose to throw the ball. My post was recognizing Wilson's play more than anything else. Wilson has been nearly the big play threat Taylor was and better in run support -- though scheme has something to do with that. If Taylor can return healthy, he'll move back in by year's end.

Jene Bramel said:

dgreen said:

Jene Bramel said:

Gibril Wilson has been playing well enough to push Taylor out due to injury for now.

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I think Taylor's value has been evident since he left against Philly. The Skins D has given up 6 passing TDs since he left and most of those were thrown to an area Taylor vacated.I know PBs aren't given for such reasons, but the value of Taylor's play this year is being shown in his absence. I think it would be a shame for him to lose a PB bid because of a couple missed games.

As mentioned, though, allowing only one vote for each safety spot is creating some hard decisions here.

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Certainly would've been very interesting to see how Taylor chose to defend the Cowboy passing game yesterday. Pinch down on Witten, cheat toward Owens or stay home and use your recovery speed to get to wherever Romo chose to throw the ball. My post was recognizing Wilson's play more than anything else. Wilson has been nearly the big play threat Taylor was and better in run support -- though scheme has something to do with that. If Taylor can return healthy, he'll move back in by year's end.

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The week 17 rematch should give us something to compare and contrast.

Jene Bramel said:

Certainly would've been very interesting to see how Taylor chose to defend the Cowboy passing game yesterday. Pinch down on Witten, cheat toward Owens or stay home and use your recovery speed to get to wherever Romo chose to throw the ball.

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Obviously I'm just guessing here, but I'd say you wouldn't even see Dallas take too many looks deep with Taylor in there.

Week 11 update:

AFC

DE: Jared Allen, Elvis Dumervil, Jason Taylor

DT: Albert Haynesworth, Amobi Okoye, Jamal Williams

OLB: Donnie Edwards, James Harrison, Shawn Merriman

ILB: Ray Lewis, DeMeco Ryans

CB: Champ Bailey, Leigh Bodden, Rashean Mathis

SS: Bob Sanders

FS: Ed Reed

NFC

DE: Trent Cole, Aaron Kampman, Osi Umenyiora

DT: Darnell Dockett, Tommie Harris, Pat Williams

OLB: Julian Peterson, Ernie Sims, Demarcus Ware

ILB: London Fletcher, Barrett Ruud

CB: Nate Clements, Marcus Trufant, Charles Woodson

SS: Adrian Wilson

FS: Sean Taylor

With each passing week my picks get more and more Bramel-ized.

Seriously though, I appreciate your consistent input here, Jene.

Anyone else want to chime in on what they're seeing on the field? Who do you agree/disagree with?

Changes in red.

AFC: I'm done with Merriman. Scheme and defensive coordinator aside, he's not playing at a Pro Bowl level and he doesn't have the pedigree to fall back on. Derrick Johnson is having a tremendous season, so I'm moving him into the lineup.

AFC PRO BOWL SELECTIONS

DE (3) – Jared Allen, Jason Taylor, Elvis Dumervil

DT (3) – Albert Haynesworth, Haloti Ngata, Jamal Williams (NT)

OLB (3) – Mike Vrabel, James Harrison, Derrick Johnson

ILB (2) – DeMeco Ryans, Ray Lewis

CB (3) – Champ Bailey, Leigh Bodden, Rashean Mathis

FS (1) – Ed Reed

SS (1) – Bob Sanders

NFC: Got to see Rod Hood for the second time this year -- he's having a great year -- and I've been looking for a reason to get rid of Clements anyway. The LB crop in the NFC is so deep that you have to stay consistent. With Ruud and Willis dropping off at the end of their first full seasons, Karlos Dansby has been ridiculous when healthy and Fletcher can't be denied any longer. Marques Douglas is starting to make a loud case to be included at DE.

NFC PRO BOWL SELECTIONS

DE (3) – Osi Umenyiora, Aaron Kampman, Trent Cole

DT (3) – Darnell Dockett, Tommie Harris, Pat Williams (NT)

OLB (3) – Demarcus Ware, Michael Boley, Julian Peterson

ILB (2) – London Fletcher, Karlos Dansby

CB (3) – Marcus Trufant, Charles Woodson, Rod Hood

FS (1) – Gibril Wilson

SS (1) – Adrian Wilson

I just looked in here, so I'll play along.

AFC

DE - Jared Allen, Elvis Dumervil, Jason Taylor

DT - Albert Haynesworth, Casey Hampton, Kelly Gregg (These last two guys never get any love or credit for what they do)

OLB - Derrick Johnson (could go Donnie Edwards here too), James Harrison, Angelo Crowell

ILB - DeMeco Ryans, Kirk Morrison

CB - Champ Bailey, Rashean Mathis, Ty Law (ugh, homer pick)

FS - Madieu Williams

SS - Bob Sanders (I still him as a FS)

NFC

DE - Trent Cole, Aaron Kampman, Adewale Ogunleye (I'm sure to get flack for this one)

DT - Darnell Dockett, Pat Williams, Jovan Haye (he hasn't been spectacular but consistent)

OLB - Michael Boley, Jon Beason (I picked him because of the transition to OLB and then MLB as a rookie while excelling), Ernie Sims

ILB - Nick Barnett, London Fletcher

CB - Marcus Trufant, Charles Woodson, Rod Hood

FS - Sean Taylor

SS - Adrian Wilson

The Fantasy Roundtable will be doing a Pro Bowl feature this week with fan voting now ended. Here's my final ballot and commentary:

I'll let the rest of the gurus focus on the offensive side of the ball and stick to side that really matters. I'm going to play by NFL rules and make my selections according to their ballot, which unfortunately leaves room for only two inside linebackers and two safeties (one FS and one SS). I tried to strike a reasonable balance between 2007 and career performance. Where decisions were close, I went with the more established player.

Defensive End (3)

AFC: Jared Allen, Jason Taylor, Elvis Dumervil

NFC: Aaron Kampman, Patrick Kerney, Trent Cole

Allen is a no brainer in the AFC. Dumervil is streaky, but having a great year. Taylor isn't playing to the back of his football card, but has still been good enough to narrowly hold off Mario Williams and Kyle Vanden Bosch, who are both having very good years. The NFC is stacked with talent and as many as six ends have a strong argument to be honored. Kampman deserves recognition and Kerney has been an unstoppable force over the past month. Cole seems to have avoided a late season slide this year and gets the nod narrowly over Osi Umenyiora and Adewale Ogunleye.

Defensive Tackle (3)

AFC: Albert Haynesworth, Haloti Ngata, Jamal Williams (NT)

NFC: Darnell Dockett, Tommie Harris, Pat Williams (NT)

Haynesworth has a legitimate argument for Defensive Player of the Year despite his recent injury struggles. Ngata has been almost as impressive and continued to improve in his second season. Williams gets the nod over Casey Hampton at NT. In the NFC, Dockett was listed at DT, so he gets the call here despite taking a number of snaps at end in the Cardinal multiple front defense. Harris is the league's premier undertackle and Williams is the best nose in the league.

Outside Linebacker (3)

AFC: Shawne Merriman, James Harrison, Mike Vrabel

NFC: Demarcus Ware, Julian Peterson, Ernie Sims

Harrison and Vrabel have been consistent in all phases of the game and are easy selections. Merriman had fallen off my ballot at one point, but has earned his way back with six sacks in his last three games. He narrowly edges out his teammate Shaun Phillips, Derrick Johnson and Terrell Suggs. Ware and Peterson are the class of the NFC's pass rushing OLBs and stud overall talents. Sims gets the nod narrowly over Michael Boley, Thomas Davis and Greg Ellis for the last spot. I'd like to cheat and get Karlos Dansby in here, but I'm playing by the NFL ballot.

Inside Linebacker (2)

AFC: DeMeco Ryans, Ray Lewis

NFC: London Fletcher, Patrick Willis

It's a crime that only two inside linebackers can be selected, especially in the NFC where I was forced to leave off Karlos Dansby, Will Witherspoon and Lofa Tatupu and still had only scratched the surface of the talent in the conference. The AFC decision was much easier, though Kirk Morrison and Gary Brackett deserve mention.

Cornerback (3)

AFC: Champ Bailey, Leigh Bodden, Antonio Cromartie

NFC: Marcus Trufant, Roderick Hood, Charles Woodson

Bailey hasn't played as well as he did in 2005 and 2006, but he's still the best all-around corner in the league. Bodden isn't far behind, though, and has finally stayed healthy enough to get some of the accolades he deserves. It's sick to select someone who only recently was promoted to the starting lineup, but Cromartie has rivaled Devin Hester as one of the most electrifying playmakers in the league. He narrowly edges Asante Samuel on my ballot. Trufant is an easy choice in the NFC. No one else stands out, however, but I'll go with Hood, who's quietly had a very good year, and Woodson.

Safeties (2)

AFC: Bob Sanders (SS), Ed Reed (FS)

NFC: Darren Sharper (SS), Ken Hamlin (FS)

Sean Taylor and Adrian Wilson had hammerlocks on the NFC positions a month ago sadly. Gibril Wilson narrowly gives way to Hamlin, who's playing like the Hamlin of 2004, at FS. The masses will vote for Hamlin's teammate, Roy Williams, at SS, but he's a liability as often as he is a playmaker. With no one standing out, I'll take the big play capability of Sharper. Sanders is an easy choice at SS in the AFC, though he shuts out a number of players who would look better than Sharper in the NFC. Reed is the only FS worth considering, but isn't the player he once was.

Thanks to everyone that contributed their input to the thread.

Fan voting is over and coaches/players should be turning in their ballots today. Selections will be announced Tues., Dec. 18 @ 4pm on the NFLN.

A few numbers from the fan voting results:

Sidewinder16 said:

Code:

Top 10 DefensivePosition 	Name, Team 			   VotesOLB 		 A.J. Hawk, Packers 	   355,420AFC leading vote-getters (defense)Position 	Name, Team 			   VotesSS 		  Troy Polamalu, Steelers   301,341NFC leading vote-getters (defense)Position 	Name, Team 			   VotesSS 		  Roy Williams, Cowboys 	271,505

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These are the most surprising/disappointing, IMO. How Bob Sanders wasn't the leading vote-getter for AFC SS is beyond me. I hope the coaches/players votes get Sanders in.