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Karma? Atlanta has no obligation to Louisville, just like Arkansas has none to Atlanta.
I've seen you question this several times. All is says is "the contact" started Monday. I take that to mean that's when Jerry Jones called Arthur Blank, not when Petrino was talking to anybody. I could be wrong, but that's how I read it. Doesn't make it any more right or wrong though.I'm not sure I get the point of your post, but I do have a question about one of the bulletsetrino called UA AD Jeff Long between 7 and 8 this morning and the process took off from there. (TRUE)Define this morning, as there are documented discrepencies as to when Petrino was contacted and when he SAID he was contacted.
The timing is crucial in how damning it is for Petrino, IMO. We now know that there were more rumblings than we initially thought about Petrino jumping ship. Blank asked for a second confirmation on Monday. Petrino claims discussions didn't start until Tuesday. If Petrino WAS in communications with Arkansas, either directly or through his agent, we have a situation where he shook Blank's hand, looked him dead in the eye and told him that he would be there in 2008, knowing damn well he was leaving the next day. Which I think it clearly the case, but it'd be nice to know for sure.I've seen you question this several times. All is says is "the contact" started Monday. I take that to mean that's when Jerry Jones called Arthur Blank, not when Petrino was talking to anybody. I could be wrong, but that's how I read it. Doesn't make it any more right or wrong though.I'm not sure I get the point of your post, but I do have a question about one of the bullets
Maybe karma for Arthur Blank firing Dan Reeves with three games remaining in the 2003 season.Maybe karma for Arthur Blank hiring GM Rich McKay from Tampa Bay before the end of that same season.
If thats true then it isnt KARMA, just common sense and a basic understanding of people which Blank really should have expected as a successfull businessman who chooses business managers all the time. If someone will screw over someone else for you when it's in their interest, they will do the same to you when its in their interest to do so. Not saying Blank is the bad guy here -- far from it. And Petrino is a piece of &$#^%. But if you deal with people like that you're putting yourself in a position to be screwed.
I don't see how you can fault Blank or Petrino for him moving from college to the NFL.
Perhaps I'm wrong here but as I recall:1) Blank wanted to put HIS organization into place, and a new coach would be part of that. Vick had a broken leg and it was widely known that Reeves was going to be fired. Backed into a corner it was stated publicly. Reeves hurt - decided not to finish out the season. I don't think you can call it bad karma when a new team owner desires his team to be in sync with his ideals of an organization going forward.
If there was no permission granted, then the Falcons could actually sue the university for tortiously interfering in a contractual relationship. That would be highly amusing.
As always, there'll be no suit, but geez, it'd be nice if a team could sign a coach, then turn away for five minutes.
One of these days an owner or college president will get angry enough to do it, and I get the sense Blank's close to that point. Someone will want to set a precedent, and frankly it probably needs to be sent given how much power coaches now have to play teams/universities against each other to get what they want, all with assistants and recruits and players relying upon those coaches being left to watch.
Pretty good summary. I don't think people think karma means what they think it means. Or whatever Andre the Giant said. However there's one thing I disagree with. Vick's sentence is absolutely warranted. Yo have to remember that the brutality to animals is the public face Vick's crimes, but it is not the government's main beef with Vick. He was sentenced for running a dog fighting ring which involves interstate transport in commission of felonies, gambling and the untaxed income involved and other issues with less public outcry. If Vick was sentenced to two years simply for animal cruelty then I would agree that all in all it would be a harsh punishment. But if there's one thing the gov't hates, it's people making money without the IRS getting their share. That's what they got Capone with and it's a big part of the dog fighting ring charges. The brutality overshadows the dtrength of the charge and Vick got less than half of the possible penalty of 5 years, so all in all he got off fairly easy.
Not to
...but...You compare this to Saban's situation in your sig. I've seen many comparisons on this board. But, Saban's situation did not hurt his recruiting at Alabama AT ALL.They are very different situations. Saban lied to the press, but finished out the season and sat down with his owner. He didn't lose the respect from his boss or team...which obviously Petrino did.The question is whether Petrino can get past this when sitting in living rooms with parents. Saban did easily. It should be tougher for Petrino.
I think you're confusing the words PENALTY & SENTENCE here sweeney.PENALTY is all encompassing as siffoin used it...endorsements down the tubes, various law suits leaving a multi millionaire essentially broke, damage to his reputation & his family, career in jepodary & fianlly 23 months in Federal Prison of which he'll serve at least 80%.mad sweeney said:
At the risk of putting words in SSOG's mouth I will say the answer is: Because although arkansas is a good team the competition they face is just too tough. It's like the college equivalent of way the Jags will never win the AFC.
Doubtful. I believe he would make a better OC than HC in the NFL, sort of like Norv Turner.
Maybe.
This is where I disagree. I think that you certainly aren't going to learn people skills successfully under fire as an NFL coach. You either have them or you don't at that point. I think he relies upon the immense leverage college coaches enjoy, and the absence of such leverage in the NFL left him at a loss as to how to deal with his players. I think he knew this too, which is why he ran.
I agree to an extent, but let's not forget how young his soon-to-be recruits are right now. In five years, the guys he'll be recruiting will have been 12 and 13 when this happened, and this will seem like ancient history to them. I would find it amusing to hear that Blank was actively working against his recruiting efforts though (yeah, a fantasy I know).
Summation: If the owner and player has a reason to do something, it's OK. If the coach has a reason to do something, he's a snake.siffoin said:
I think you're confused a little. The statement that Vick "got" a stiffer penalty than the crime implies that the punishment came from outside sources. He brought the punishment, by your definitions, on himself by committing the crimes. The only thing he "got" was a sentence. The punishment was a by product of his actions. Hopefully you can understand without me using any big bolded italicized words.
Blank should thank Petrino for making the fried chicken questions go away.redman said:
Please. Eighteen year old kids don't care what Sean Salisbury has to say.One of the Arkansas commitments from Georgia was quoted as being more excited with Petrino as HC than he was when he committed to the Hogs months ago.
Are you fine with Petrino's actions over the past week?
He may have to answer a few more questions than Saban...but in the end this bad pub will hardly matter.
The fried chicken questions were stupid. Blank's no racist. Now Arkansas, OTOH, is thanking its lucky stars that its inept coaching search is no longer being talked about. You'll laugh at this (or be
) because of how much I've argued this issue regarding Petrino's actions, but I honestly believe this is for the best for the Falcons. Petrino appears to have had some serious flaws as an NFL head coach. It doesn't excuse the lousy way he handled this, but I do believe that Blank and the Falcons will come out ahead on this one (assuming they wisely use this opportunity to hire a good head coach).
I'm fine with everything except how he told his coaching staff and the team. That should have been handled better.Now, here's a scenario for everyone:Consider yourself to be near the top of your current field of work.You are hired by one of the top 32 firms in your field to lead a huge project. Before you really get started on that project, one of that firm's most talented employees is forced to quit work. Then, a few weeks into that project, one of your most visible workers shows public (in front of all of your other employees) disrespect to you. You discipline him, but he is still insubordinate around the other staff. As the weeks roll on, the project isn't going so well. Other respected employees speak out against you and your methods. You are basically miserable at work.A few weeks before the project (which is basically a huge cluster now) is due, you find out that another firm would love to have you head up one of their divisions. This firm is smaller than where you work now, but you've done that exact work before and seem to prefer it. You'll have to take about a 40% pay cut, but the real catch is that you have to start now. If you wait, you will likely have to continue with your present job and undertake another project.How many of the Petrino bashers will stick with their present job? Show of hands please.
I agree all around.The fried chicken questions were stupid. Blank's no racist. Now Arkansas, OTOH, is thanking its lucky stars that its inept coaching search is no longer being talked about. You'll laugh at this (or be
Clayton, I don't think the analogy of a typical workplace works in regard to team sports. The team dynamic is far different from a typcial work environment.That said, if I made promises and had obligations, and by shirking both I undercut all my subordinates and bosses alike then I would expect to be blackballed in that industry. Such actions would warrant a result whereby my company would never hire someone with such low standards and disregard for their committments. Personally, I would do a few things. One, is stick through it until the project was done, and then move on. If I did not think that could work for anyone or I really had a great opportunity, I would not just take action on my own, in a dishonest and utterly disrespectful manner.I would talk with my bosses at the least and discuss the situation. Chances are they would say "Look Koya (not my real name), if you hate being here so much and you feel that the fit is so wrong, we honestly think it is better we split ways in any case... lets work on this together to get past this as best as possible for all concerned. Would you be willing to do that? We will do what we can to assure you that you won't miss your opportunity, but let us have a unified front and as smooth a transition as possible during this difficult time"I would not just send a resignation letter and say basically, I know I made a ton of committments to you, and I know that a lot of people depend upon me for their livelihood and all... but honestly, that doesnt matter to me because I have an opportunity somewhere else that I would rather take and I couldnt care nor respect you all enough to even discuss it with you beforehand to find a solution that works for us all"That is what Petrino did. And it was utterly disgraceful, how he did it.
I don't think that is my summation.Take the Blank hiring McKay example. Blank calls Tampa and says what would it take for Rich to come to Atlanta. They reply, 3 1st rounders. Blank then says, that price is too steep, so Ill wait out the contract thank you very much. And he does. Everyone knows what is going to happen. Tampa sticks to its guns, Blank doesn't tamper. When the contract is fulfilled, he signs up McKay. That to me is honorable way to engage in a competitive business.
That's not my quote, that's something I saw in the press. You're right about the differences between Saban and Petrino, and I agree with you. But Saban did take a lot of grief and the author's point was he simply made Saban look good by comparison.Not to...but...You compare this to Saban's situation in your sig. I've seen many comparisons on this board. But, Saban's situation did not hurt his recruiting at Alabama AT ALL.They are very different situations. Saban lied to the press, but finished out the season and sat down with his owner. He didn't lose the respect from his boss or team...which obviously Petrino did.The question is whether Petrino can get past this when sitting in living rooms with parents. Saban did easily. It should be tougher for Petrino.
In regards to the Vick punishment..it is a conflicting delima. My point was that if I was engaged in dog fighting, I might get the same judgment. But upon my release I would be able to pick up the pieces of my life and re-build. I'd even be able to have my same job, be able to make the same salary, I'd be able to improve my lot in life after the conviction. To me justice is just that. You do something wrong, you pay the price, but afterwards you can move forward. Afterwards you can even have a better life than the one before. Vick will have no such opportunity. On a certain level it is unjust. Certainly to his friends and teammates it is unjust. And in Vicks darkest hour, they wanted him to know he was not deserted and alone. We all should have friends to put it on the line for us when our failures as a person become public.
I really don't know why this is so hard to understand. I've explained it no less than five times in this thread. I don't care that he left. I'm glad he left. He had every right to leave. If he was happier at college, go to college. Great, have a nice life.He told outright bold-faced lies to his owner, his GM, his players and the fans. He brought in people who came to Atlanta and gave up jobs elsewhere, and left them high and dry without even the courtesy of an explanation.He lied. People depended on him and he let them down. Do you get it now?I swear to God, I could start a thread condemning Charles Manson, and some jackass would come in here and try to post a scenario where he wasn't such a bad guy.
Your "chances are they would say" line is exactly what Blank didn't do.
"The story goes" that Petrino changed his mind after the game Monday. Of course you won't believe that.
Who said anything about Salisbury? Hell, I don't care what Sean has to say.But those 18 year olds have parents, and they WILL remember. 5 years from now, especially if he's won a lot? Sure, no impact at all. This year? After this much negative backlash? Yeah, I think it will have an impact. Time will tell.
What? Didn't Blank let him out of the contract without a fight?
But (I'm guessing) that you are not at the apex of your profession. If you were at that stage, you most likely would not be able to resume that same way of life after exiting prison.
The story goes that not keeping your word shows an extreme lack of integrity, which is what he's being ripped for. And if you truly believe he hadn't made up his mind, well, I don't see how anyone could possibly believe that."The story goes" that Petrino changed his mind after the game Monday. Of course you won't believe that.
Pretty sure things changed from between the time he brought in people who came to Atlanta and gave up jobs elsewhere and Tuesday.
Blank couldn't stop him from resigning in order to take a job at Arkansas or ESPN or Wal-Mart or anywhere else that is not the NFL.
You are very naive to think that Petrino's bailing out on teams will not enter into the decision of a family about where their son will play college football.He may have to answer a few more questions than Saban...but in the end this bad pub will hardly matter.
Clayton, your M.O. in this thread of denying one of many charges in a given response isn't flattering to you. How much changed between Monday and Tuesday (aside from what Petrino's mouth was saying)?
:golf clap:
