Orgazmo
Footballguy
He would have to be an amputee to get past Denver.
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Andy D's 2nd annual Super-Mega, 3 Round, Post-Combine, (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Andy Dufresne
- Start date
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
True dat.
A lot of people were REALLY wrong last year when they called him a 1st round caliber pick.Hes a mediocre 2nd day pick, deserves to be a UDFA.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Getting more convinced. Harvey is probably going to go top 10.I would say the Vikes may trade up for him, but now I think they really may dump Bryant McKinnie, which means they need to replace the LT and DE position, so I don't think they'd want to give up the picks.I'm pretty sure the Patriots would trade out of that #7 spot if they got a decent offer.
I starting to think someone may indeed trade up to that spot to select Derrick Harvey. If he lasts that long.
Carolina and Jacksonville both seem to be very, very interested in Harvey.
In other news, I think Chris Long is going #1 to the Fins. If they keep the pick.
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FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
I would bet the Vikings trade McKinnie for a pick(s). He would probably bring something good in return, just not sure what.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
With the way the Panthers are sniffing around Harvey and Chris Williams, it really wouldn't surprise me to see that Peppers deal get done.Vikes give their #1 and McKinnie for Peppers and something. Panthers trade up for Harvey and still have an extra #1 for whatever plus they have their new left tackle.Win-win. Unlikely though.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Looks like you're slowly coming to terms with my mock.Getting more convinced. Harvey is probably going to go top 10.I would say the Vikes may trade up for him, but now I think they really may dump Bryant McKinnie, which means they need to replace the LT and DE position, so I don't think they'd want to give up the picks.I'm pretty sure the Patriots would trade out of that #7 spot if they got a decent offer.
I starting to think someone may indeed trade up to that spot to select Derrick Harvey. If he lasts that long
Carolina and Jacksonville both seem to be very, very interested in Harvey.
In other news, I think Chris Long is going #1 to the Fins. If they keep the pick.
Seriously, Harvey is beasty. I couldn't form a mock this year without him in the top 10, but I understand you dreaming him to the Vikes.And Long is going to the Phins. I locked in Jamarcus to the Raiders last February and wouldn't change my mind no matter how much smoke blew. I feel the same way about Howie's kid and Parcells. It is obvious to me. The only other player I could see possibly in the spot is Gholston, but Parcells has been very predictable and Long is just a perfect fit for him and his drafting style.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
NE does appear to want to trade out of #7 but there are rumors in Boston that if they stay at #7 they really like Harvey. Belichick is on his yearly scouting trip in Florida and Harvey is one of the main guys he is looking at.Getting more convinced. Harvey is probably going to go top 10.I would say the Vikes may trade up for him, but now I think they really may dump Bryant McKinnie, which means they need to replace the LT and DE position, so I don't think they'd want to give up the picks.I'm pretty sure the Patriots would trade out of that #7 spot if they got a decent offer.
I starting to think someone may indeed trade up to that spot to select Derrick Harvey. If he lasts that long.
Carolina and Jacksonville both seem to be very, very interested in Harvey.
In other news, I think Chris Long is going #1 to the Fins. If they keep the pick.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I would think that's called "driving up the value." "Hey guys, look at us! We're interested in Harvey!
"Although he wouldnt be a bad pick for the Pats.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Yeah, since I agreed with moderated back when he yelled at us for not seeing the obvious about Hardy, I haven't been able to convince myself he isn't the best prospect in this thing. Kelly could convince me, but he has his work cut out for him. I suspect some of what scout.com is reporting here has to do with the uncertainty surrounding Kelly and Thomas, and Hardy being more impressive physically than Sweed. I suspect all four of those names appear #1 on some teams WR board though. Fun year.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
I don't think those questions have reasonable answers without making huge assumptions. Like WR, I bet each of the top 3 RBs appear atop some teams' RB boards. So, I have a feeling the perceived value of McFadden is higher than the real value. And I'm one of those who thinks McFadden is going to be great. McFadden falling out of the top 10 seems like the best scenario to generate some trade activity.Yenrub said:
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I think the #5 spot is too high for someone to consider moving up to to get McFadden.
EBF
Footballguy
I agree and I think Jackson might even be the top guy for a few teams if they're looking for speed and a return guy. For all the talk about this WR class being weak, there may be 5 receivers picked in the first round. Maybe more if someone falls in love with Manningham or Caldwell.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Peter King had an interesting mock posted today - had Long, Gholston, Dorsey, McFadden, Ryan - leaving the Jets with Jake Long.
I would actually have no problem with this - they play him at RT for a year and if Brick still struggles they can flip flop the two - Long is a stud and I would rather have a dominating line than reaching or trading down for below value.
I know its not the best pick for the JEts as you usually don't draft 2 top OL like this so close - but As a Jet fan an OL of Brick, Fanacea, Mangold, Moore/Woody, Long? Where do I sign up!!!!
I would actually have no problem with this - they play him at RT for a year and if Brick still struggles they can flip flop the two - Long is a stud and I would rather have a dominating line than reaching or trading down for below value.
I know its not the best pick for the JEts as you usually don't draft 2 top OL like this so close - but As a Jet fan an OL of Brick, Fanacea, Mangold, Moore/Woody, Long? Where do I sign up!!!!
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
This talk of Long being "just" a RT makes me want to fight.
He and Brohm are bordering on being criminally underrated at this point.
He and Brohm are bordering on being criminally underrated at this point.
Reaper
Footballguy
Settle down.In my case, The talk is of D'Brick being "just" a LT and Long being able to play either spot.
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Kiddnets
Footballguy
Jets met with Brohm for 4 hrs the other day - any chance he falls to the 2nd rd to them at #5? Maybe they are thinking trade down....
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
That wasn't really directed at you. I know you weren't saying that. Regardless, I think Long would be a great pick for the Jets even if it IS for the right side.It was more of a general expression of displeasure many people are just parroting what some are saying - that he isn't a fit for the left side. That's just not true.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I think there's a chance. It might be slim, but it's still there. I would think the more likely scenario is that if he does fall, you'll see a situation like Quinn's last year where someone trades back up into the first to nab him.But then I can see Ryan going to the Falcons and the Ravens then taking Brohm at #9. So who knows? What a fun draft this is going to be to watch!
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
I haven't picked up on this, Andy. But I agree with you if people are rating Long as RT material, they are sadly mistaken.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Because I'm bored...
Call this the "What if the Pats traded UP" draft
1. Miami - Chris Long
2. St. Louis - Glenn Dorsey
3. Atlanta - Jake Long
4. New England (from Oakland) - Vernon Gholston
5. Kansas City - Matt Ryan
6. New York Jets - Darren McFadden
7. Oakland (from New England, from San Francisco) - Derrick Harvey
8. Baltimore - Leodis McKelvin
9. Cincinnati - Sedrick Ellis
10. New Orleans - Keith Rivers
11. Buffalo - Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
12. Denver - Limas Sweed
13. Carolina - Chris Williams
14. Chicago - Ryan Clady
15. Detroit - Jeff Otah
16. Arizona - Mike Jenkins
17. Minnesota - Phillip Merling
18. Houston - Sam Baker
19. Philadelphia - Malcolm Kelly
20. Tampa Bay - Rashard Mendenhall
21. Washington - Kenny Phillips
22. Dallas (from Cleveland) - James Hardy
23. Pittsburgh - Gosder Cherilus
24. Tennessee - Quentin Groves
25. Seattle - Branden Albert
26. Jacksonville - Antoine Cason
27. San Diego - Aqib Talib
28. Dallas - Dan Connor
29. San Francisco (from Indianapolis) - DeSean Jackson
30. Green Bay - Jonathan Stewart
31. New York Giants - Reggie Smith
Note that the Patriots trade the third rounder back to Oakland that they traded in the 2007 draft.
It frustrates me that I can't find room for Brian Brohm. I think he's a franchise QB but with the "win now" attitude in the NFL, it's a crapshoot as to which team will take the chance on developing a fine young QB.
Call this the "What if the Pats traded UP" draft
1. Miami - Chris Long
2. St. Louis - Glenn Dorsey
3. Atlanta - Jake Long
4. New England (from Oakland) - Vernon Gholston
5. Kansas City - Matt Ryan
6. New York Jets - Darren McFadden
7. Oakland (from New England, from San Francisco) - Derrick Harvey
8. Baltimore - Leodis McKelvin
9. Cincinnati - Sedrick Ellis
10. New Orleans - Keith Rivers
11. Buffalo - Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
12. Denver - Limas Sweed
13. Carolina - Chris Williams
14. Chicago - Ryan Clady
15. Detroit - Jeff Otah
16. Arizona - Mike Jenkins
17. Minnesota - Phillip Merling
18. Houston - Sam Baker
19. Philadelphia - Malcolm Kelly
20. Tampa Bay - Rashard Mendenhall
21. Washington - Kenny Phillips
22. Dallas (from Cleveland) - James Hardy
23. Pittsburgh - Gosder Cherilus
24. Tennessee - Quentin Groves
25. Seattle - Branden Albert
26. Jacksonville - Antoine Cason
27. San Diego - Aqib Talib
28. Dallas - Dan Connor
29. San Francisco (from Indianapolis) - DeSean Jackson
30. Green Bay - Jonathan Stewart
31. New York Giants - Reggie Smith
Note that the Patriots trade the third rounder back to Oakland that they traded in the 2007 draft.
It frustrates me that I can't find room for Brian Brohm. I think he's a franchise QB but with the "win now" attitude in the NFL, it's a crapshoot as to which team will take the chance on developing a fine young QB.
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Burning Sensation
Footballguy
Be prepared to have Grant owners attack you like you just assaulted their mother.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
You mean the fumbler?Grant was a nice story in the 2nd half of the season, but I have doubts he's a season-long starter for the Pack. He'd make a nice 1-2 with Stewart though, wouldn't he? Plus, it would take some pressure of of not-Favre guy.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
I agree with you, i think there is a better chance than most think the Packers take a RB in the first, particularly if Stewart slides that far. I am just waiting for Grant owners to show up and persecute you for suggesting it. After all, the harder they deny it publicly, the less likely it is to happen.
Jiggyonthehut
Footballguy
Damn, you really put the Jags in a brutal situation. At that point, they're staring at realistic option #5 or 6. I'd hope they trade down here.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Yeah. I think they'd love to get Groves at that spot. But I can't see the Titans relying on a broken down Kearse.Wouldn't surprise me to see them take an offensive tackle. Someone like Anthony Collins perhaps.
Getinthemix
Footballguy
I think the Pat's trade up idea is a very real possibility. Good job Andy.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Thanks!
I think they learned the same lesson that everyone else did - pressuring the QB is a really great idea.And while Gholston might not be the complete and experienced backer that the Pats like, he would obviously improve the pass rush. And dispite their Super Bowl setback, their window of opportunity is still wide open. I've read plenty of their draft philosophy lately, which is to target guys that fit their scheme and I think Gholston does much better than trying to shoehorn someone like Harvey into the role.
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Getinthemix
Footballguy
I also really would not be overly happy with Sam Baker. I would much prefer Quentin Groves or Reggie Smith.
Ridgelake
Footballguy
Andy, you and I have been friends for a long time. Ok, so i know you won't take this the wrong way.
WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU THINKING PUTTING CONNOR TO DALLAS AT 28????????????
Hardy at 22. Ok, I guess. Passing over Cason and Talib to do so? Probably not.
Connor over Stewart at 28???? A snowball's chance in hell of that happening. Thank god you didn't put Felix in there again. I would have REALLY had a coniption then!
WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU THINKING PUTTING CONNOR TO DALLAS AT 28????????????
Hardy at 22. Ok, I guess. Passing over Cason and Talib to do so? Probably not.
Connor over Stewart at 28???? A snowball's chance in hell of that happening. Thank god you didn't put Felix in there again.
I would have REALLY had a coniption then!
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I understand. But I think that Baker and Brohm have fallen victim to overanalysis paralysis. Baker is really underrated at this point.I like Reggie Smith a lot. But after re-signing Demps and signing Ferguson, I think they go another direction (even though neither are all that great).
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
1) I'm assuming they get Pac Man.2) I callAndy, you and I have been friends for a long time. Ok, so i know you won't take this the wrong way.WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU THINKING PUTTING CONNOR TO DALLAS AT 28????????????Hardy at 22. Ok, I guess. Passing over Cason and Talib to do so? Probably not.Connor over Stewart at 28???? A snowball's chance in hell of that happening. Thank god you didn't put Felix in there again.I would have REALLY had a coniption then!
on the Cowboys taking RB in the first.3) Zach Thomas is only signed for one year. Carpenter is a bust. And Dan Connor is really, really good.Interseptopus
Footballguy
Intresting. Being a GB homer and a Grant lover, I'm all about this. Grant was awesome in the 2nd half of the season, but Stewart has the potential to be the best back of this draft. Pairing him with Grant woudl be amazing. I for one don't like our depth behind Grant, and Stewart would be awesome. Woudl definately take pressure off Rodgers. I wouldn't be surprised to see Grant-lovers bash you for this. But the reality is, GB doesn't have THAT many holes. So it's not far fetched that TT would just go ahead and take the best player availible while going after depth on D and OL in the rest of the first day. The best player could be Stewart! Another possibility is Brohm. This name has been thrown around a lot lately. GB has the cap space and the picks to take a QB as well with their first pick.I agree with you, i think there is a better chance than most think the Packers take a RB in the first, particularly if Stewart slides that far. I am just waiting for Grant owners to show up and persecute you for suggesting it. After all, the harder they deny it publicly, the less likely it is to happen.
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I've heard that too. I think Rogers can make it. But Brohm would be hard to pass up. Especially since it doesn't look like there's a #2 on the roster.
Ridgelake
Footballguy
Yes, lets assume they do get Pac. I think thats a fair decision. So their CBs now become: 1) Newman, entering the last year of his contract and looking for an Asante deal next season. Oh, and he'll be 30 at season start 2) Anthony Henry, also over 30. He hasnt finished a season since he came to Dallas because of injuries. 3) Pacman. He's one temptation to one of Dallas' 9,364,897 strip clubs away from a lifetime ban. 4) Guys who were on a practice squad last year.I'd kind of like to have someone else with some ability if you don't mind.1) I'm assuming they get Pac Man.2) I callAndy, you and I have been friends for a long time. Ok, so i know you won't take this the wrong way.WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU THINKING PUTTING CONNOR TO DALLAS AT 28????????????Hardy at 22. Ok, I guess. Passing over Cason and Talib to do so? Probably not.Connor over Stewart at 28???? A snowball's chance in hell of that happening. Thank god you didn't put Felix in there again.I would have REALLY had a coniption then!
RB. Given the RB depth, I would not be surprised if they waited until the 2nd or 3rd to take one. But from the accounts I've read, Stewart is one of about 21 guys Dallas has placed a 1st round grade on. Its a position of need. I would be shocked if they passed on the value that he represents at 28. LB: Yes, Thomas is signed for 1 year. And he may not even play much this year given his injury history. Kevin Burnett was the LB on the field at crunch time in place of Akin Ayodele. And don't give up on Carpenter yet. He's just entering his 3rd year. He's been jerked around by both staffs and he was injured most of last year. There's a reason he was a 1st rounder. He's not hopeless. Yet.
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Chaos Commish
Footballguy
It's not worth it, GB. Andy is dead to me now.ps... Jason are you coming back to Goid? I'm filling it early and you earned an invite despite my disgust with you.Andy, you and I have been friends for a long time. Ok, so i know you won't take this the wrong way.WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU THINKING PUTTING CONNOR TO DALLAS AT 28????????????Hardy at 22. Ok, I guess. Passing over Cason and Talib to do so? Probably not.Connor over Stewart at 28???? A snowball's chance in hell of that happening. Thank god you didn't put Felix in there again.
The Texans are difficult to mock right now. They've added some depth to both RB, corner and safety and while those areas are not addressed longterm and could easily use an upgrade, they aren't as super critical as they were before the start of FA. The Texans are truly in a spot to just see who is available and take the guy they think is head and shoulders above the rest regardless of position.Put me in the camp that says this is the year we finally get a LT. We've got to keep Schaub upright and healthy, and we've addressed the DL enough for now, let's address the O'line.
I agree with this 100% however i think there is better talent in the draft at other positions when it comes time to make a selection, so do you go based on need or by talent. I dont know, I sure want them to take Stewart but most likely they wont.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Okay. But in this "I'm bored" mock, McKelvin, Jenkins, DRC, Cason, and Talib are all gone by the 'Boys' second pick. Who do you want them to take in that case?Yes, lets assume they do get Pac. I think thats a fair decision. So their CBs now become: 1) Newman, entering the last year of his contract and looking for an Asante deal next season. Oh, and he'll be 30 at season start 2) Anthony Henry, also over 30. He hasnt finished a season since he came to Dallas because of injuries. 3) Pacman. He's one temptation to one of Dallas' 9,364,897 strip clubs away from a lifetime ban. 4) Guys who were on a practice squad last year.I'd kind of like to have someone else with some ability if you don't mind.
If Stewart represents value at that point, then so does Connor. I think you're selling Connor short. I also think all Cowboys fans are selling Barber short. Like I said, I call
on RB in the first.
Of course. I answered in the affirmative to your PM last week.ps... Jason are you coming back to Goid? I'm filling it early and you earned an invite despite my disgust with you.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Doh. I can't keep this league organized. On the Dallas picks you threw me a nasty curve. I've been challenging the idea of Dallas taking a WR in the first. I hate it. Many Cowboy fans approve. But they have the #4 passing attack in the league. They are healthy and probably improving. They have some solid guys in hiding that have yet to earn much PT. I like Hurd. I love Austin's potential. I am intrigued by Stanbeck. I understand the idea that TO is old and Crayton is not good enough, but I disagree with both. Owens is in great shape and will be a stud for a few more years. Crayton is underrated and a fine compliment to TO. Is it perfect? Of course not. They're #4 not #1. If they were rebuilding this would be a priority area.Okay. But in this "I'm bored" mock, McKelvin, Jenkins, DRC, Cason, and Talib are all gone by the 'Boys' second pick. Who do you want them to take in that case?Yes, lets assume they do get Pac. I think thats a fair decision. So their CBs now become: 1) Newman, entering the last year of his contract and looking for an Asante deal next season. Oh, and he'll be 30 at season start 2) Anthony Henry, also over 30. He hasnt finished a season since he came to Dallas because of injuries. 3) Pacman. He's one temptation to one of Dallas' 9,364,897 strip clubs away from a lifetime ban. 4) Guys who were on a practice squad last year.
I'd kind of like to have someone else with some ability if you don't mind.
If Stewart represents value at that point, then so does Connor. I think you're selling Connor short. I also think all Cowboys fans are selling Barber short. Like I said, I callOf course. I answered in the affirmative to your PM last week.ps... Jason are you coming back to Goid? I'm filling it early and you earned an invite despite my disgust with you.
They are not rebuilding. They are trying to get over the hump with a glaring need in the secondary. A team official said if Pacman is signed they will proceed as if he wasn't. That means a couple cornerbacks early in this draft, and that's smart. Pacman solves nothing. He is a luxury, a worthwhile risk, not a reliable patch for any weakness. They have interviewed a ton of corners and it remains the fairly obvious target. Some of the corners they have brought in suggest they may be considering moving up for one -- Cormartie, McKelvin. They've interviewed 7 corners and 3 WRs.
They have looked at Hardy and a couple other WRs, and there's the curve. I really like the kid. I think they have more pressing needs and can find a very good WR later, but if they took Hardy, I would sigh and hope for the best. He's a nice prospect. If they were set at corner and RB, I would support the pick.
RBs, RBs, RBs, they are interviewing RBs, five and counting (Stewart and Mendenhall included). In an article I posted in the Cowboy thread JJ says he sees no need to move up for an RB (referencing the DMac rumors). They can find what they need right where they are (referencing the two first round picks). This was a discussion focused on the first round. It was a subtle admission that a round 1 RB is very much in play here. Dallas has shown their hand three years in a row. We all knew Ware was the guy, then Carpenter was a no brainer everyone expected, and then Spencer was another obvious projection. In all those cases little tidbits like the stuff I'm posting here led to the obvious conclusion. I have no doubt in my mind they take Stewart if he is there at either pick. I could see them move up for a corner and down to the mid to early second for an RB they target.
Another team personnel official agrees with me that this is the deepest class of quality RBs he has seen. In his case, professionally, that goes back to 1989.
These guys are predictable and this what the tea leaves say at the end of March. CB, RB... maybe some movement to get the best corner and move back for a solid RB. That could make the Felix Jones stories prophetic.
Connor is another curve for me. You do point out an area of concern just like WR. Fix it if you're rebuilding, but they aren't losing games because of ILBs. They just lack great players and patched a hole with probably a solid upgrade in FA. But yeah, you got Connor right as a player. He rocks, and like Hardy, I would sigh at the foolishness and hope for the best.
I wish more people would buy what you're selling. The DMac rumors are driving me nuts. Why would JJ - one of the savvier owners in the NFL IMO - sell out two picks + in order to draft a back when they can lie in the weeds and grab one later? It just makes no sense with this RB class.I don't see the 'boys trading up very far - certainly not to pick 5 and earlier.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Just to put it out there "on the record" -
Jerod Mayo is going to be a first rounder.
That means that Keith Rivers probably will be too.
And that also means that someone is going to get a steal in Dan Connor at the bottom of round 1/top of round 2.
Jerod Mayo is going to be a first rounder.
That means that Keith Rivers probably will be too.
And that also means that someone is going to get a steal in Dan Connor at the bottom of round 1/top of round 2.
Kegs & Eggs
Footballguy
I was hoping that Mayo would fall to the Rams in the 2nd. I hope you are wrong on that one Andy.
Orgazmo
Footballguy
ray
oubtful to get past Atlanta with all their picks.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I think they're one of the teams that could end up with Connor. If the Giants don't pounce like they should.
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