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Do the questions on Jones regard sharing time in general, or is it more to do with the fact that he shared the backfield with arguably the top talented RB in this year's draft and seemed able to rip off huge chunks of yards whenever Mcfadden played decoy running the other way, taking the defense with him?
I think the main difference between these two players isn't the moves. I believe that Forte is surprizingly shifty. But the difference is Jones is quicker after the cut and Forte runs with more power.Actually the short shuttle doesn't really relate well to quickness. But I believe others have already pointed that out earlier in this thread. Bottom line is when you watch the tape, Forte is not shifty, does not make great cuts, and does not explode out of his cuts, not get low in his cuts.I understand you like Forte, and I like Jones, and so we are probably going to have differing views of these players forever. That's cool, I have no problem with other people liking players and even highlighting their strengths or the reasons why they like a certain player. Well reasoned arguments add knowledge to this board.Short Shuttle.....I should've pointed that out, but I figured it would be a given for someone as great as you Switz.Which one of those measurables do you think relates to quickness? (Answer: none)
I totally agree with you about Jones and about size. This is why I am wondering if it isn't a better bet for those with mid first picks to look at Forte and Smith, who do have decent size (217 pounts)? I wonder if they may not have a higher ceiling (to go with a lower floor or lower overall chance of seeing signficant time). I would rather gamble on a guy who has a chance to be a featured back rather than get the next great change of pace or third down back. Other than Westbrook and in the past Dunn and Tiki, not too many guys less than 205 have made it as featured backs. I wonder if it isn't a better bet to take a tier three RB with decent size or take the first WR off the board rather than take a chance on a guy with a small frame?
It's definitely an interesting dilemma. Matt Forte offers a nice combination of size, production, pedigree, and combine numbers. He could be a good option for teams looking for a bigger back. I know I said in this very thread that I think he's probably a fringe starter talent. I still believe that, but he's certainly capable of performing. I'm beginning to align with the masses who think you should try your luck on a RB if you have a top 10 pick and then look at the receivers in the second round. Devin Thomas is worth a top 10 pick and is justifiable as early as the top 5 in PPR leagues. I also think James Hardy is worth a shot in the top 10 in most formats. But with Kelly's slow time and my doubts about Sweed, I don't see any other receiver out there who demands a top 10 rookie pick. As far as the RBs go, keep in mind that some of these guys could add some weight. I wouldn't assume that any of them will, but it's certainly possible for guys like Jones and Johnson.
Thanks. Where do you think these 4 guys go in rook draft non ppr and 12 team leagues? Ray Rice, Kevin Smith, Jamal Charles, Forte Rice 1.03-1.06,K.Smith 1.10-2.12(I think He will be drafted all over the place), Jamal Charles 1.03-1.09,Forte 1.07-2.05. I know were there drafted matters, I here Jamal Charles is moving up the draft boards.The eyeball test is the most important factor. I would say Rice and Charles score the highest on that metric. I've liked Rice since the first time I watched him play. He runs low, has fluid hips, adequate burst, and good power. He looks and runs like an NFL RB should. The only issue with him is size. He has good thickness, but he's short. That keeps his weight down to a less than ideal level. It could limit his role in the NFL. He certainly has the talent to be effective though. There's no doubt in my mind about that. Charles is the most dynamic and explosive of the bunch. He makes the most "wow" type plays with his shiftiness and his burst of speed. He has a big upside. My main concern with him is a skinny frame that might not be suited for the rigors of 300 carries. If he was a little bit heavier then he would be a legit top 25 prospect. As it stands now he will probably be selected in the 25-45 range. Forte gets the third best marks on the eyeball test. Go back and do a search and you'll see that I was hyping him before his public profile really blew up, so I'm far from a hater. He has good overall athletic ability and football skills. What I like best about him is his quick stutter step and his shiftiness. He can be effective at the next level. However, his frame is not as good as Rice's. Forte is heavier, but he's built a lot taller with skinny legs that will be injury magnets in the NFL. Also, his overall athleticism is solid but unspectacular. He is like a poor man's ADP. Smith is an odd duck. I watched his whole bowl game this past season and came away pretty unimpressed. At times I'm intrigued by his slashing running style and his gliding stride in the open field. At other times I think he looks awkward running the football. His combine was a notch below the other players on this list. I still think he's an interesting prospect worth a shot in your rookie draft. He has the bulk to be a starter and the more you watch him run, the more you like him. But I'd probably rank him at the bottom of this quartet as of today.I have to call you out on this. You only spoke of Combine numbers. Nothing about on field or how they looked on tape. My question to you is Combine numbers 100% in how you rate a player? Or 50%? What is the % you put on the Combine? Of course this means you should be high on McFadden beacuse He did very good at the Combine, but I'm sure you will say He didn't. Thanks, I'll wait to see what you have to say.
It really depends on who drafts them. I won't be able to answer your question until I see where these guys go.I expect the RBs to be drafted in the following order:McFadden (1)Mendenhall (1)Stewart (1-2)Johnson (1-2)Jones (1-2)Charles (1-2)Rice (2-3)Forte (2-3) Smith (3) I don't think Charles has been moving up the board, I just think he's been higher on the board than people realize. The FF community has seemingly put Felix Jones as the solid RB4 in this class, but I think we could see Johnson and/or Charles taken before Felix. It really depends on individual team preference though. Those three backs could all come off the board between late round one and late round two.Thanks. Where do you think these 4 guys go in rook draft non ppr and 12 team leagues? Ray Rice, Kevin Smith, Jamal Charles, Forte Rice 1.03-1.06,K.Smith 1.10-2.12(I think He will be drafted all over the place), Jamal Charles 1.03-1.09,Forte 1.07-2.05. I know were there drafted matters, I here Jamal Charles is moving up the draft boards.The eyeball test is the most important factor. I would say Rice and Charles score the highest on that metric. I've liked Rice since the first time I watched him play. He runs low, has fluid hips, adequate burst, and good power. He looks and runs like an NFL RB should. The only issue with him is size. He has good thickness, but he's short. That keeps his weight down to a less than ideal level. It could limit his role in the NFL. He certainly has the talent to be effective though. There's no doubt in my mind about that. Charles is the most dynamic and explosive of the bunch. He makes the most "wow" type plays with his shiftiness and his burst of speed. He has a big upside. My main concern with him is a skinny frame that might not be suited for the rigors of 300 carries. If he was a little bit heavier then he would be a legit top 25 prospect. As it stands now he will probably be selected in the 25-45 range. Forte gets the third best marks on the eyeball test. Go back and do a search and you'll see that I was hyping him before his public profile really blew up, so I'm far from a hater. He has good overall athletic ability and football skills. What I like best about him is his quick stutter step and his shiftiness. He can be effective at the next level. However, his frame is not as good as Rice's. Forte is heavier, but he's built a lot taller with skinny legs that will be injury magnets in the NFL. Also, his overall athleticism is solid but unspectacular. He is like a poor man's ADP. Smith is an odd duck. I watched his whole bowl game this past season and came away pretty unimpressed. At times I'm intrigued by his slashing running style and his gliding stride in the open field. At other times I think he looks awkward running the football. His combine was a notch below the other players on this list. I still think he's an interesting prospect worth a shot in your rookie draft. He has the bulk to be a starter and the more you watch him run, the more you like him. But I'd probably rank him at the bottom of this quartet as of today.I have to call you out on this. You only spoke of Combine numbers. Nothing about on field or how they looked on tape. My question to you is Combine numbers 100% in how you rate a player? Or 50%? What is the % you put on the Combine? Of course this means you should be high on McFadden beacuse He did very good at the Combine, but I'm sure you will say He didn't. Thanks, I'll wait to see what you have to say.
For now before the draft it seems to be for a FF rookie draft:Tier 1Thanks. Where do you think these 4 guys go in rook draft non ppr and 12 team leagues? Ray Rice, Kevin Smith, Jamal Charles, Forte Rice 1.03-1.06,K.Smith 1.10-2.12(I think He will be drafted all over the place), Jamal Charles 1.03-1.09,Forte 1.07-2.05. I know were there drafted matters, I here Jamal Charles is moving up the draft boards.The eyeball test is the most important factor. I would say Rice and Charles score the highest on that metric. I've liked Rice since the first time I watched him play. He runs low, has fluid hips, adequate burst, and good power. He looks and runs like an NFL RB should. The only issue with him is size. He has good thickness, but he's short. That keeps his weight down to a less than ideal level. It could limit his role in the NFL. He certainly has the talent to be effective though. There's no doubt in my mind about that. Charles is the most dynamic and explosive of the bunch. He makes the most "wow" type plays with his shiftiness and his burst of speed. He has a big upside. My main concern with him is a skinny frame that might not be suited for the rigors of 300 carries. If he was a little bit heavier then he would be a legit top 25 prospect. As it stands now he will probably be selected in the 25-45 range.I have to call you out on this. You only spoke of Combine numbers. Nothing about on field or how they looked on tape. My question to you is Combine numbers 100% in how you rate a player? Or 50%? What is the % you put on the Combine? Of course this means you should be high on McFadden beacuse He did very good at the Combine, but I'm sure you will say He didn't. Thanks, I'll wait to see what you have to say.
Forte gets the third best marks on the eyeball test. Go back and do a search and you'll see that I was hyping him before his public profile really blew up, so I'm far from a hater. He has good overall athletic ability and football skills. What I like best about him is his quick stutter step and his shiftiness. He can be effective at the next level. However, his frame is not as good as Rice's. Forte is heavier, but he's built a lot taller with skinny legs that will be injury magnets in the NFL. Also, his overall athleticism is solid but unspectacular. He is like a poor man's ADP.
Smith is an odd duck. I watched his whole bowl game this past season and came away pretty unimpressed. At times I'm intrigued by his slashing running style and his gliding stride in the open field. At other times I think he looks awkward running the football. His combine was a notch below the other players on this list. I still think he's an interesting prospect worth a shot in your rookie draft. He has the bulk to be a starter and the more you watch him run, the more you like him. But I'd probably rank him at the bottom of this quartet as of today.
You my friend are correct. Charles is Higher on NFL boards then most realize here. If Dallas moves up, which I think they will and get McFadden. Than F.Jones may slip more than most realize as well. Rice will I think go no later than the 2nd round. Smith may go in the 4th same as Forte. But nice break down.It really depends on who drafts them. I won't be able to answer your question until I see where these guys go.I expect the RBs to be drafted in the following order:McFadden (1)Mendenhall (1)Stewart (1-2)Johnson (1-2)Jones (1-2)Charles (1-2)Rice (2-3)Forte (2-3) Smith (3) I don't think Charles has been moving up the board, I just think he's been higher on the board than people realize. The FF community has seemingly put Felix Jones as the solid RB4 in this class, but I think we could see Johnson and/or Charles taken before Felix. It really depends on individual team preference though. Those three backs could all come off the board between late round one and late round two.Thanks. Where do you think these 4 guys go in rook draft non ppr and 12 team leagues? Ray Rice, Kevin Smith, Jamal Charles, Forte Rice 1.03-1.06,K.Smith 1.10-2.12(I think He will be drafted all over the place), Jamal Charles 1.03-1.09,Forte 1.07-2.05. I know were there drafted matters, I here Jamal Charles is moving up the draft boards.The eyeball test is the most important factor. I would say Rice and Charles score the highest on that metric. I've liked Rice since the first time I watched him play. He runs low, has fluid hips, adequate burst, and good power. He looks and runs like an NFL RB should. The only issue with him is size. He has good thickness, but he's short. That keeps his weight down to a less than ideal level. It could limit his role in the NFL. He certainly has the talent to be effective though. There's no doubt in my mind about that. Charles is the most dynamic and explosive of the bunch. He makes the most "wow" type plays with his shiftiness and his burst of speed. He has a big upside. My main concern with him is a skinny frame that might not be suited for the rigors of 300 carries. If he was a little bit heavier then he would be a legit top 25 prospect. As it stands now he will probably be selected in the 25-45 range. Forte gets the third best marks on the eyeball test. Go back and do a search and you'll see that I was hyping him before his public profile really blew up, so I'm far from a hater. He has good overall athletic ability and football skills. What I like best about him is his quick stutter step and his shiftiness. He can be effective at the next level. However, his frame is not as good as Rice's. Forte is heavier, but he's built a lot taller with skinny legs that will be injury magnets in the NFL. Also, his overall athleticism is solid but unspectacular. He is like a poor man's ADP. Smith is an odd duck. I watched his whole bowl game this past season and came away pretty unimpressed. At times I'm intrigued by his slashing running style and his gliding stride in the open field. At other times I think he looks awkward running the football. His combine was a notch below the other players on this list. I still think he's an interesting prospect worth a shot in your rookie draft. He has the bulk to be a starter and the more you watch him run, the more you like him. But I'd probably rank him at the bottom of this quartet as of today.I have to call you out on this. You only spoke of Combine numbers. Nothing about on field or how they looked on tape. My question to you is Combine numbers 100% in how you rate a player? Or 50%? What is the % you put on the Combine? Of course this means you should be high on McFadden beacuse He did very good at the Combine, but I'm sure you will say He didn't. Thanks, I'll wait to see what you have to say.
It's interesting that you see the 3 "outside" RBs being drafted before the 3 "inside" RBs. I wonder in the NFL teams will really see it that way? Maybe just because you can't teach speed?It really depends on who drafts them. I won't be able to answer your question until I see where these guys go.I expect the RBs to be drafted in the following order:McFadden (1)Mendenhall (1)Stewart (1-2)Johnson (1-2)Jones (1-2)Charles (1-2)Rice (2-3)Forte (2-3) Smith (3) I don't think Charles has been moving up the board, I just think he's been higher on the board than people realize. The FF community has seemingly put Felix Jones as the solid RB4 in this class, but I think we could see Johnson and/or Charles taken before Felix. It really depends on individual team preference though. Those three backs could all come off the board between late round one and late round two.Thanks. Where do you think these 4 guys go in rook draft non ppr and 12 team leagues? Ray Rice, Kevin Smith, Jamal Charles, Forte Rice 1.03-1.06,K.Smith 1.10-2.12(I think He will be drafted all over the place), Jamal Charles 1.03-1.09,Forte 1.07-2.05. I know were there drafted matters, I here Jamal Charles is moving up the draft boards.The eyeball test is the most important factor. I would say Rice and Charles score the highest on that metric. I've liked Rice since the first time I watched him play. He runs low, has fluid hips, adequate burst, and good power. He looks and runs like an NFL RB should. The only issue with him is size. He has good thickness, but he's short. That keeps his weight down to a less than ideal level. It could limit his role in the NFL. He certainly has the talent to be effective though. There's no doubt in my mind about that. Charles is the most dynamic and explosive of the bunch. He makes the most "wow" type plays with his shiftiness and his burst of speed. He has a big upside. My main concern with him is a skinny frame that might not be suited for the rigors of 300 carries. If he was a little bit heavier then he would be a legit top 25 prospect. As it stands now he will probably be selected in the 25-45 range. Forte gets the third best marks on the eyeball test. Go back and do a search and you'll see that I was hyping him before his public profile really blew up, so I'm far from a hater. He has good overall athletic ability and football skills. What I like best about him is his quick stutter step and his shiftiness. He can be effective at the next level. However, his frame is not as good as Rice's. Forte is heavier, but he's built a lot taller with skinny legs that will be injury magnets in the NFL. Also, his overall athleticism is solid but unspectacular. He is like a poor man's ADP. Smith is an odd duck. I watched his whole bowl game this past season and came away pretty unimpressed. At times I'm intrigued by his slashing running style and his gliding stride in the open field. At other times I think he looks awkward running the football. His combine was a notch below the other players on this list. I still think he's an interesting prospect worth a shot in your rookie draft. He has the bulk to be a starter and the more you watch him run, the more you like him. But I'd probably rank him at the bottom of this quartet as of today.I have to call you out on this. You only spoke of Combine numbers. Nothing about on field or how they looked on tape. My question to you is Combine numbers 100% in how you rate a player? Or 50%? What is the % you put on the Combine? Of course this means you should be high on McFadden beacuse He did very good at the Combine, but I'm sure you will say He didn't. Thanks, I'll wait to see what you have to say.
Not too surprising. The speed guys will likely be drafted sooner and make an immediate impact even if in a limited role. The power guys look like they can be drafted in the 2nd to 4th rounds and likely will be depth behind an established starter.It would be nice to draft talent over situation but this year opinions on talent are all over the map, so situation is getting an edge, no?.
Individual teams will have their own preferences and anything can happen on draft day. It's pretty likely that one of the "inside" backs like Forte or Rice will be taken inside the top 50-60 by a team looking for a potential starter, but I think Johnson/Charles/Jones are collectively higher on the board than Rice/Forte/Smith. I think the FF community it sleeping on Johnson and Charles a little bit. Johnson had a ridiculous combine. Couple that with a good senior season and you have a guy who will probably be taken in the 25-50 range. He's this year's Chris Henry with the big difference being that he can actually play football.
Maybe, but Johnson also is painfully bad, IMHO, at blocking. In fact he looks disinterested on plays that don't go to him. Don't we hear every year about a RB that we think should be seeing more action but is held back due to protection problems? That's my worry with him.
Three words:FourTwoFourAs in 4.24. I don't care if the guy is turnstile as a blocker. With his receiving skills and his ridiculous speed, teams are going to covet him in the early portion of the draft. He's a freakish athlete who shows a lot of potential and pulls away from defenders on the field. That's going to excite the scouts. Blocking is something that can be taught. He might not have ideal bulk for the task, but teams can teach him to throw his weight around and be adequate. Honestly, I don't think there are many RBs who fail in the long-term because of their blocking.
Both these posts are in line with what I was going to bring out in reply to whomever posted the question about rather drafting Forte or Smith, over Jones, because they are more NFL size. The problem is that size can be added, talent cannot. Jones looks far more talented than Forte or Smith, and that's not meant as a negative toward Forte or Smith, who both could be starters at the NFL level, just not long term solutions IMO.Jones has speed, quicks, vision, etc. that Forte and Smith do not. And where he lacks strength is mostly in his upper body. Adding 10 pounds there (easily done in one offseason) is not going to diminish his talent.EBF has probably put out the most balanced, and well informed info in this thread about all these RBs.And in line with what he's said, isn't it true that size is the easiest of the issues to change?
I'm not so sure that situation should ever drastically change your pre-draft rankings. Historically, when a player is bumped up purely on situation, it generally does not turn out well. There are of course exceptions to ever rule, but I'm looking at guys like Tatum/Mike Bell in Denver, Michael Bennett in MIN, Bradnon Jackson in GB... guys that were not as well thought of prospects (Bennett was thought of as a possible star purely on track speed) but landed in GREAT situations.Anyway - the likelihood is that with the depth of talent, most people will be able to get a guy in their draft that they really have high hopes for. Win win
If you watch some film of him, there are a LOT of plays that Jones ran when McFadden was NOT on the field, and he still ripped off huge chunks of yardage.Here's an example: Jones Highlights - I paused the film at play starts to see who the QB was, how the play started, etc. I only saw McFadden at QB once, and one of the plays was a KR.
Johnson has a gear that you don't often see. He also shows good balance and good power for his size. I doubt he'll be a bell cow type at the NFL, but if you give him 10-15 touches per game then he can hit some home runs for the offense. He's definitely one of the more interesting skill position prospects in the draft. He crushed the combine in just about every drill. Ridiculous 40 time. Very good vertical leap. Elite broad jump. It was a performance reminiscent of Justin Fargas' workout a few years back. Like Fargas, Johnson accomplished enough on the field to make you think he's more than just a workout wonder. I think he has a chance to be a top 25-35 pick, possibly even the RB3 if teams are worried about Stewart. That could be one of the "surprises" of the draft.
Yeah I hear you, but I wonder if we're talking different things here. I agree that 4.24 may get him drafted higher, but I think he's still not a lock to be successful long term. I think you will agree that his non-game body of work (aka 4.24) is stronger than his game body of work and although that may get him drafted higher, it doesn't mean he'll be more successful. At least in my eyes. You still have him at 5 on your list?EBF said:
Just saw this after I posted. Not calling him a workout wonder, but I do think there is much more of a gap between his workout rank, if you will, and his game film rank than most the other RBs in this class.EBF said:
One of the real challenges for me with this year's draft is trying to sort through the Chris Johnson/Jamaal Charles/Felix Jones cluster of value. These guys are scat back types who lack the ideal size you look for in a 300 carry franchise RB. Yet I suspect at least one of them will emerge as a pretty good FF option. There's no easy way for me to rank these guys. Charles is the most dynamic open field runner. He resembles elite pro RB's in terms of running style, but he has the slightest frame of these three rookies and weaker overall combine numbers than the other two. Jones is the biggest of the three, but he's the least accomplished as a lead back and he shows the least power.That brings me to Johnson. He doesn't have the lateral running skills of Charles or Jones, but he has the best workout numbers by a pretty wide margin. He also shows underrated balance and power. He's probably the least instinctive of the three, yet his physical gifts are so exceptional that they could still propel him to success. He's not a bad football player like Chris Henry. He had a very solid season in 2007. My current attitude is that all of these guys are clustered pretty tightly together in terms of FF value. If you believe that combine numbers are a big part of success, Johnson is your guy. If you believe strictly in running talent, Charles is your guy. If you believe in a combination of the two, Jones is your guy. There are reasons to like all of them. I think they're all worth a pick in the 4-10 range. I honestly don't know which of the three I'd take first right now. They're very close in my mind and I'm still in the process of sorting them out.
I agree the ideal is 220, and yes LT was 221 at the combine, Portis was 204, Lee Suggs 202, Brian Westbrook 200, Frank Gore 210, Bush 201, MJD 207 (though he's shorter so his BMI is higher), Addai 214, Ahmad Bradshaw 198, Lynch 213, ADP 217.At 5'10" and 207, adding 5-10 pounds immediately puts Jones at a respectable NFL RB size. Add 15 pounds and he's almost perfect.
ahh I forgot about Lee Suggs....I loved him and Kevin Jones coming out....in the NFL is a different story.I think the size issue is a good point in that they COULD add weight.....but another factor is CAN they add weight? We don't know that...so I don't think we can assume Ray Rice, Chris Johnson, Felix Jones, Jamaal Charles...etc.
Not to mention Portis was down to 185 after his first year's work. At the time, I thought his current build was unattainable. Some of these others may get smaller before they get bigger.
I don't know the answer to this - it's not meant to be sarcastic at all. Is there any "light" RB that hasn't put on weight when he hit the NFL?I mean Portis is listed at 223 now, Suggs is like 213 last time I checked, Norwood has put on like 10 pounds.I think Westbrook is listed at 203 only, so maybe that's a good example, as that's only a 3 pound increase.But it seems from what I have seen, that nearly every RB puts on about 10 pounds between college and the NFL.
With a gun to my head, I think I'd rank them like this:JonesJohnsonCharles
I don't know, but I guess anyone could add weight(could be fat)....but will it effect their performance is the ultimate issue.I don't know the answer to this - it's not meant to be sarcastic at all. Is there any "light" RB that hasn't put on weight when he hit the NFL?I mean Portis is listed at 223 now, Suggs is like 213 last time I checked, Norwood has put on like 10 pounds.I think Westbrook is listed at 203 only, so maybe that's a good example, as that's only a 3 pound increase.But it seems from what I have seen, that nearly every RB puts on about 10 pounds between college and the NFL.
Great points. I lean toward the running talent side, so I favor Charles and Jones. But I can see the case for Johnson. I know when I watched the Bowl Game against Boise St I was surprised to see that he ran in traffic and between the tackles better than I had heard he did. But still not as good as Charles, IMO.
Stop picking on LenDale
What exactly was he supposed to do last year?I see about 275 touches from scrimmage, just short of 2000 total yards and 23 td's- plus he is a dynamite return man. This seems more like you are simply skeptical of a player you didn't know very much about before the buzz started.
That's not fair rabidfiire. Contrux was very familiar with Johnson all along. He may be wrong in his assessment, but not ignorant of the player. Good conversation, btw. Like I have been saying for a couple months: cut the deck and shuffle the cards. You can make arguments for and against all of them in an orderly list, but it seems like splitting hairs until we find out a little more. Rice is probably going to fall in the draft, btw.
40 time, then vert.. sounds like Football Outsiders is just a hair behind EBF in this research. They too quickly dismiss the value of the broadjump.eta - I'm on the Chris Johnson bandwagon. It's like Reggie Bush is a poor man's Chris Johnson.
LOL, somebody has a mancrush. I've seen Johnson enough. We get Pirate games in CLT on occasion and I've watched the Bowl Game twice. May watch it again before my rookie drafts.
I've been seeing that. Why?
I wrote a pretty long post about this this morning but decided not to post it because I want you or EBF to draft him.
What have you been seeing?
Then PM it to me. I don't draft in our league until 2.11. You guys can share all your secrets with me.I wrote a pretty long post about this this morning but decided not to post it because I want you or EBF to draft him.What have you been seeing?
I was seeing people say heavy workload plus small stature = bad.
Thanks for posting this, Switz. I am also a fan of Felix, and had not seen the long highlight video. It did nothing to change my mind, as of right now I see Felix in the second tier (alone) behind McFadden, Stewart, and Mendenhall.switz said:
I like him too, but then I like 'em all, don't I? No PMs Contrux. I just think he fails a little in key comparisons with many who are impressing, primarily my main man Matt Forte. The scat back types are the same size as him, but more explosive, better big playmakers, and better receivers. I'm not totally against what massraider said in this thread about him playing slow and not showing great vision. He is a very natural runner, built nice and low, and he could be the 4th or 5th best in this class, but in side by side comparisons I suspect he is falling a little. Also, and not that I put much emphasis on this, there is very little praise coming from the beat writers closest to teams. The do tend to get some good bits every year, and Forte has been gettingg good comments here and there. Finally, he is drawing very little attention (so far) on the scheduled visit circuit. His body of work over three years is expansive and maybe that creates less desire to bring him in, but as far as I know only Atlanta and Washington are having a closer look. Most of these backs have five to seven visits scheduled already. Chris Johnson has 9 visits planned. He'll barely come up for air before he has a team. Rice can go the beach for a week and not be missed the way this looks.
Interesting. Well, I'll be happy to draft him in Z30 if he drops to me at 2.11.
Well, I wouldn't say that I have a man crush. There are guys I like more. I just took issue with where you said there was a gap between the combine and his game film. I just don't see where you find fault with 6.0 per carry, and insane 14+ yards per reception (6 td's on 37 catches speaks of his ability in space), first in all purpose yards per game, and 3rd in the nation in scoring. Perhaps that has him on 7 on your list- but I think you are in the minority there. That's all I'm saying. Both Mayock and Kiper had him top 5 pre-combine. He is new to the position and not a ton of carries. Last year was his first 200 carry year. I think he has a lot room for growth, like Addai (who was an option QB in high school). These guys didn't always look like natural rb's because they hadn't been doing it for 10 years.
I'm in the minority on a lot of guys, so that's no surprise, lol. I do think that I am biased toward more natural RBs, like Rice, just as an example. I'm sure that causes me to miss on some guys, but I don't think I miss more than I hit. This will be a very telling class in that regard.
Yep, and I have a terrible weakness for speeeeeed.
That's a very fair assessment that I can't argue with. I'm probably a bit overly optimistic about the guy, as I have him as the #2 behind Mendenhall (who I actually was down on earlier, but then did my research). McFadden's "skinny legs" and running style scare me, and Stewart's a "big back" with an "injury" which scares me as well. So Jones high rating is not so much merely indicative of how well I view his talent, but also representative of my concerns about the other two backs.The 4 guys that the OP asked about (and I guess I turned this into a really long hijack about Jones
) are all to me, risky prospects that I probably would not touch in the first round of my dynasty rookie draft.
From your report, it sounds like he is somewhere between Justin Fargas (great speed, great collegiate career) and Michael Bennett (great speed, raw prospect)Honestly, every time I hear a player is "learning the position" when draft time roles around, it scares the heck out of me. The learning curve for experienced backs in the NFL is hard (it used to be easier), and then to throw an inexperienced player into that?
I hear what you are saying. However, with this year's QB and WR class I think you are going to see those four go in the first round of a rookie only 12 team Dynasty league.It's an unusual year.The 4 guys that the OP asked about (and I guess I turned this into a really long hijack about Jones
From that standpoint - perhaps. I can see a number of WRs and at least Ryan going before the RBs. And someone will fall in love with Brohm - at least every year some guy grabs a rookie QB too early because, well I guess because he's a QB.... but yeah, probably one or two of the third tier RBs may creep in the 10-12 picks rangeIn that case, I'd probably take Rice - with lots of question marks.I hear what you are saying. However, with this year's QB and WR class I think you are going to see those four go in the first round of a rookie only 12 team Dynasty league.It's an unusual year.The 4 guys that the OP asked about (and I guess I turned this into a really long hijack about Jones
