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Javon Walker (1 Viewer)

AnonymousBob

AnonymousBob

Footballguy
I'm issuing a buy low on Javon Walker. Judging from the posts in the various threads, people are really, really low on the guy.

But let's go over some things. When healthy, he's been very good. He got hurt in Cheeseland and was kicked out to the Mile High City. He had a good year in Denver before suffering another injury.

He came back too soon and was essentially shut down for the season.

Denver cuts the guy and Oakland signs him to a very large deal. A report comes out and is totally misinterpreted talking about Walker being out of shape (another report had Kiffin saying good things about Javon but is ignored because it doesn't fit into the group think). Considering fitness has yet to be an issue in Green Bay or in Denver, I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Also considering he's coming off surgery and it's only June, I believe he'll be in shape for the season.

His current ADP is wr 29 (imo that will continue to drop until Vegas blows over). Last year's #29 had 970 yards and 4 touchdowns. Walker is the #1 option on a team whose quarterback has a cannon of an arm. Jerry Porter had 705 yards and 6 touchdowns for the Raiders in 2007. I do believe Porter is better than his time in Oakland has shown but I also believe Walker >>>>> Porter. Walker is also a GREAT redzone threat.

I can understand if somebody was hesitant to snag Walker because of health concerns. But his value isn't dropping just because of those concerns. The misinterpreted reports are being twisted even further just so people can justify avoiding him...

I generally conduct my draft with an emphasis on PPG rather than season totals so injury fears don't bother me. If somebody misses some time I'll enjoy the ride while they're healthy. And if healthy, I don't see how Walker doesn't easily topple 1,000 yards and 5 touchdowns. And that's his floor. When you can draft a guy as the #29 wr and his FLOOR should put him no lower than #20, that is some very good value.

 
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AnonymousBob said:
I'm issuing a buy low on Javon Walker. Judging from the posts in the various threads, people are really, really low on the guy. But let's go over some things. When healthy, he's been very good. He got hurt in Cheeseland and was kicked out to the Mile High City. He had a good year in Denver before suffering another injury. He came back too soon and was essentially shut down for the season.Denver cuts the guy and Oakland signs him to a very large deal. A report comes out and is totally misinterpreted talking about Walker being out of shape (another report had Kiffin saying good things about Javon but is ignored because it doesn't fit into the group think). Considering fitness has yet to be an issue in Green Bay or in Denver, I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Also considering he's coming off surgery and it's only June, I believe he'll be in shape for the season. His current ADP is wr 29 (imo that will continue to drop until Vegas blows over). Last year's #29 had 970 yards and 4 touchdowns. Walker is the #1 option on a team whose quarterback has a cannon of an arm. Jerry Porter had 705 yards and 6 touchdowns for the Raiders in 2007. I do believe Porter is better than his time in Oakland has shown but I also believe Walker >>>>> Porter. Walker is also a GREAT redzone threat.I can understand if somebody was hesitant to snag Walker because of health concerns. But his value isn't dropping just because of those concerns. The misinterpreted reports are being twisted even further just so people can justify avoiding him...I generally conduct my draft with an emphasis on PPG rather than season totals so injury fears don't bother me. If somebody misses some time I'll enjoy the ride while they're healthy. And if healthy, I don't see how Walker doesn't easily topple 1,000 yards and 5 touchdowns. And that's his floor. When you can draft a guy as the #29 wr and his FLOOR should put him no lower than #20, that is some very good value.Javon Walker has been certified as an AnonymousBob steal of the draft.
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I bought low on Ron Curry and I think i'll stay with him. :confused:
 
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Ketamine Dreams said:
A lot of the the time the 'Buy Lows' are appropriately priced.
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And some of the time there is an irrational fear based upon nothing but speculation that causes a player's stock to fall. It seems his value is falling for reasons more than just his offseason surgery. IMO, the only reason to be low on him is because he was hurt last year or the fact he's on such a terrible team. But people aren't just lowering him for those reasons. They're lowering him because of mass speculation of him spraying champagne, buying drugs, paying for hookers, soliciting for gay sex and being an immature party animal. Give it a few weeks/months and people won't be so fantatical about these alleged issues. But for now, BUY LOW!
 
gregjcross said:
I bought low on Ron Curry and I think i'll stay with him. :confused:
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Curry isn't a bad buy low but you're missing out on Walker. Curry and Walker are the same age and Javon has accomplished a lot more in his career than Ronald has. Javon, if healthy, has shown he can play at an elite level. Curry, if healthy, has shown he can play at a good level.There's nothing wrong with grabbing Curry but I can't understand why you'd be high on him and not Walker.
 
AnonymousBob said:
gregjcross said:
I bought low on Ron Curry and I think i'll stay with him. :confused:
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Curry isn't a bad buy low but you're missing out on Walker. Curry and Walker are the same age and Javon has accomplished a lot more in his career than Ronald has. Javon, if healthy, has shown he can play at an elite level. Curry, if healthy, has shown he can play at a good level.There's nothing wrong with grabbing Curry but I can't understand why you'd be high on him and not Walker.
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they are both injury prone, the true value play is Drew Carter, but you can probably wait to grab him on the WW
 
The only way Drew Carter becomes a steal is if Walker AND Curry get hurt. Even then I wouldn't be overly optimistic that Oakland wouldn't simply run the ball every snap. He's been in the league five seasons and had a career high 38 receptions and 517 yards in 2007. He hasn't done much nor has he shown much. He'll probably snag a few bombs but I just don't see value here.

When you have to count on not one but TWO guys getting hurt in front of him AND you need a career year out of the guy to get any useful fantasy stats out of him I just don't think he's a guy you should waste a spot on. But if you have big rosters there are worse players you could burn a spot on.

 
AnonymousBob said:
Ketamine Dreams said:
A lot of the the time the 'Buy Lows' are appropriately priced.
Click to expand...
And some of the time there is an irrational fear based upon nothing but speculation that causes a player's stock to fall. It seems his value is falling for reasons more than just his offseason surgery. IMO, the only reason to be low on him is because he was hurt last year or the fact he's on such a terrible team. But people aren't just lowering him for those reasons. They're lowering him because of mass speculation of him spraying champagne, buying drugs, paying for hookers, soliciting for gay sex and being an immature party animal. Give it a few weeks/months and people won't be so fantatical about these alleged issues. But for now, BUY LOW!
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Fair enough, but a lot of these are appropriately based. Being out of shape, not interested in football, playing on a lousy team, being a high injury risk with bad knees etc. are legitimate concerns and do affect value.
 
AnonymousBob said:
The only way Drew Carter becomes a steal is if Walker AND Curry get hurt. Even then I wouldn't be overly optimistic that Oakland wouldn't simply run the ball every snap. He's been in the league five seasons and had a career high 38 receptions and 517 yards in 2007. He hasn't done much nor has he shown much. He'll probably snag a few bombs but I just don't see value here.When you have to count on not one but TWO guys getting hurt in front of him AND you need a career year out of the guy to get any useful fantasy stats out of him I just don't think he's a guy you should waste a spot on. But if you have big rosters there are worse players you could burn a spot on.
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I disagree. He only needs one of Walker or Curry to get hurt or significantly underperform, not both. Carter has already exhibited the most chemistry with Russell during OTAs and minicamp and he could be a nice surprise this year.Injuries have been Carter's main detriment thus far in his career. A torn ACL caused his stock to significantly drop in the draft and he's had knee problems in the pros too. If healthy he has potential as he is big, fast and has decent ball skills. But he too needs to prove that he can stay healthy and grab hold of a starting role.
 
AnonymousBob said:
gregjcross said:
I bought low on Ron Curry and I think i'll stay with him. :sadbanana:
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Curry isn't a bad buy low but you're missing out on Walker. Curry and Walker are the same age and Javon has accomplished a lot more in his career than Ronald has. Javon, if healthy, has shown he can play at an elite level. Curry, if healthy, has shown he can play at a good level.There's nothing wrong with grabbing Curry but I can't understand why you'd be high on him and not Walker.
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I get rather jaded about players like Boston, Javon Walker etc. who are highly talented but start exhibiting erratic behavior month after month. People are what they are. I won't put much stock in ANY of Oakland's WRs right now to be frank. Javon is kind of a brand name these days so its hard not to overpay for him. So, my Curry being the "buy low" comment is more so saying that Javon is actually overrated considering just how stupid he seeems to be. Now, can he physically go get 75 yards and 5 receptions per game, yes (he is more talented than Curry). But its looking less likely that he will.
 
AnonymousBob said:
The only way Drew Carter becomes a steal is if Walker AND Curry get hurt. Even then I wouldn't be overly optimistic that Oakland wouldn't simply run the ball every snap. He's been in the league five seasons and had a career high 38 receptions and 517 yards in 2007. He hasn't done much nor has he shown much. He'll probably snag a few bombs but I just don't see value here.

When you have to count on not one but TWO guys getting hurt in front of him AND you need a career year out of the guy to get any useful fantasy stats out of him I just don't think he's a guy you should waste a spot on. But if you have big rosters there are worse players you could burn a spot on.
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Wait, are you saying if Walker or Curry got hurt? That never happens. The question is WHEN Walker or Curry gets hurt.I'll wrap up Carter before they get hurt cause just like the sun rising, it will happen.

 
LawFitz said:
AnonymousBob said:
The only way Drew Carter becomes a steal is if Walker AND Curry get hurt. Even then I wouldn't be overly optimistic that Oakland wouldn't simply run the ball every snap. He's been in the league five seasons and had a career high 38 receptions and 517 yards in 2007. He hasn't done much nor has he shown much. He'll probably snag a few bombs but I just don't see value here.When you have to count on not one but TWO guys getting hurt in front of him AND you need a career year out of the guy to get any useful fantasy stats out of him I just don't think he's a guy you should waste a spot on. But if you have big rosters there are worse players you could burn a spot on.
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I disagree. He only needs one of Walker or Curry to get hurt or significantly underperform, not both. Carter has already exhibited the most chemistry with Russell during OTAs and minicamp and he could be a nice surprise this year.Injuries have been Carter's main detriment thus far in his career. A torn ACL caused his stock to significantly drop in the draft and he's had knee problems in the pros too. If healthy he has potential as he is big, fast and has decent ball skills. But he too needs to prove that he can stay healthy and grab hold of a starting role.
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this is good posting.but to be honest with you guys, Im not "buying" any of them.
 
LawFitz said:
AnonymousBob said:
The only way Drew Carter becomes a steal is if Walker AND Curry get hurt. Even then I wouldn't be overly optimistic that Oakland wouldn't simply run the ball every snap. He's been in the league five seasons and had a career high 38 receptions and 517 yards in 2007. He hasn't done much nor has he shown much. He'll probably snag a few bombs but I just don't see value here.When you have to count on not one but TWO guys getting hurt in front of him AND you need a career year out of the guy to get any useful fantasy stats out of him I just don't think he's a guy you should waste a spot on. But if you have big rosters there are worse players you could burn a spot on.
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I disagree. He only needs one of Walker or Curry to get hurt or significantly underperform, not both. Carter has already exhibited the most chemistry with Russell during OTAs and minicamp and he could be a nice surprise this year.Injuries have been Carter's main detriment thus far in his career. A torn ACL caused his stock to significantly drop in the draft and he's had knee problems in the pros too. If healthy he has potential as he is big, fast and has decent ball skills. But he too needs to prove that he can stay healthy and grab hold of a starting role.
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Fair enough and good points. I know he's really been connecting with Russell so I'll move him onto my sleeper list.
 
Buy low? Buy dead.

Walker has rarely been healthy, he's on a run first team, with an inexperience and unproven QB. He has a piss poor attitude, and WRs with questionable attitudes rarely succeed in Oakland.

His upside is very very very low.

 
AnonymousBob said:
The only way Drew Carter becomes a steal is if Walker AND Curry get hurt. Even then I wouldn't be overly optimistic that Oakland wouldn't simply run the ball every snap. He's been in the league five seasons and had a career high 38 receptions and 517 yards in 2007. He hasn't done much nor has he shown much. He'll probably snag a few bombs but I just don't see value here.When you have to count on not one but TWO guys getting hurt in front of him AND you need a career year out of the guy to get any useful fantasy stats out of him I just don't think he's a guy you should waste a spot on. But if you have big rosters there are worse players you could burn a spot on.
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Doesn't Drew Carter need to grow a pair of hands before any of that happens?
 
switz said:
Buy low? Buy dead.Walker has rarely been healthy, he's on a run first team, with an inexperience and unproven QB. He has a piss poor attitude, and WRs with questionable attitudes rarely succeed in Oakland.His upside is very very very low.
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Walker has been healthy in four of his six seasons. Link to piss poor attitude? WR's with loads of talent tend to succeed. Questionable attitude or not. The Oakland Raiders had McNown and Culpepper throwing them the ball. JaMarcus may turn out to be lousier but neither of those other guys sets a high bar.What would you say is his upside? If healthy, do you believe it's quite possible for him to duplicate 2007 Jerry Porter's numbers?
 
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AnonymousBob said:
Ketamine Dreams said:
A lot of the the time the 'Buy Lows' are appropriately priced.
Click to expand...
And some of the time there is an irrational fear based upon nothing but speculation that causes a player's stock to fall. It seems his value is falling for reasons more than just his offseason surgery. IMO, the only reason to be low on him is because he was hurt last year or the fact he's on such a terrible team. But people aren't just lowering him for those reasons. They're lowering him because of mass speculation of him spraying champagne, buying drugs, paying for hookers, soliciting for gay sex and being an immature party animal. Give it a few weeks/months and people won't be so fantatical about these alleged issues. But for now, BUY LOW!
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Seems your reasons to buy him low are based on speculation.The reasons he is low to begin with...-health concerns-attitude concerns-1st year starter at QB
 
AnonymousBob said:
switz said:
Buy low? Buy dead.

Walker has rarely been healthy, he's on a run first team, with an inexperience and unproven QB. He has a piss poor attitude, and WRs with questionable attitudes rarely succeed in Oakland.

His upside is very very very low.
Click to expand...
Walker has been healthy in four of his six seasons. Link to piss poor attitude?

WR's with loads of talent tend to succeed. Questionable attitude or not.

The Oakland Raiders had McNown and Culpepper throwing them the ball. JaMarcus may turn out to be lousier but neither of those other guys sets a high bar.

What would you say is his upside? If healthy, do you believe it's quite possible for him to duplicate 2007 Jerry Porter's numbers?
Click to expand...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/stor...mp;lid=tab3pos1
 
AnonymousBob said:
switz said:
Buy low? Buy dead.

Walker has rarely been healthy, he's on a run first team, with an inexperience and unproven QB. He has a piss poor attitude, and WRs with questionable attitudes rarely succeed in Oakland.

His upside is very very very low.
Click to expand...
Walker has been healthy in four of his six seasons. Link to piss poor attitude?

WR's with loads of talent tend to succeed. Questionable attitude or not.

The Oakland Raiders had McNown and Culpepper throwing them the ball. JaMarcus may turn out to be lousier but neither of those other guys sets a high bar.

What would you say is his upside? If healthy, do you believe it's quite possible for him to duplicate 2007 Jerry Porter's numbers?
Click to expand...
Are you in that much denial about his attitude?Ok...lets see, threatens a hold out begging for more money from a cash strapped team that was about to cut 2 pro-bowl Olinemen...then stating he would never again play for the Green Bay Packers.

Gets traded...pulls a similar stunt with saying he would want a trade if the Broncos asked him to take a pay cut. This after being hurt yet again.

Latest deal in Vegas...no matter what part you want to believe is not a good thing.

As to who the Raiders had throwing the WRs the ball..and they did what with McNown and Cpep? Little.

Porter...ummm...if he puts up 705 and 6 TDs...why would you want him on your team in the first place?

 
sho nuff said:
AnonymousBob said:
switz said:
Buy low? Buy dead.

Walker has rarely been healthy, he's on a run first team, with an inexperience and unproven QB. He has a piss poor attitude, and WRs with questionable attitudes rarely succeed in Oakland.

His upside is very very very low.
Click to expand...
Walker has been healthy in four of his six seasons. Link to piss poor attitude?

WR's with loads of talent tend to succeed. Questionable attitude or not.

The Oakland Raiders had McNown and Culpepper throwing them the ball. JaMarcus may turn out to be lousier but neither of those other guys sets a high bar.

What would you say is his upside? If healthy, do you believe it's quite possible for him to duplicate 2007 Jerry Porter's numbers?
Click to expand...
Are you in that much denial about his attitude?Ok...lets see, threatens a hold out begging for more money from a cash strapped team that was about to cut 2 pro-bowl Olinemen...then stating he would never again play for the Green Bay Packers.

Gets traded...pulls a similar stunt with saying he would want a trade if the Broncos asked him to take a pay cut. This after being hurt yet again.

Latest deal in Vegas...no matter what part you want to believe is not a good thing.

As to who the Raiders had throwing the WRs the ball..and they did what with McNown and Cpep? Little.

Porter...ummm...if he puts up 705 and 6 TDs...why would you want him on your team in the first place?
Click to expand...
C'mon now. Business is business. Contracts are negotiated all the time. Players constantly threaten to hold out/never again play for the same city/etc. It's not how I want things to run but it's the way the NFL has designed things. So it's okay for Denver to want to pay him less if he underperforms his contract but it's not okay for Walker to want more from Green Bay if he overperforms his contract? Huh? How does that make any sense?

Yes, the Raiders did little with Cpep/McNown/Porter. Porter ranked as the #36 wr. If you play in an 8 team league or a league where you start only 2 wr's then he shouldn't have been on your roster. Otherwise he was a fine #3.

 
Zoomanji said:
AnonymousBob said:
switz said:
Buy low? Buy dead.

Walker has rarely been healthy, he's on a run first team, with an inexperience and unproven QB. He has a piss poor attitude, and WRs with questionable attitudes rarely succeed in Oakland.

His upside is very very very low.
Click to expand...
Walker has been healthy in four of his six seasons. Link to piss poor attitude?

WR's with loads of talent tend to succeed. Questionable attitude or not.

The Oakland Raiders had McNown and Culpepper throwing them the ball. JaMarcus may turn out to be lousier but neither of those other guys sets a high bar.

What would you say is his upside? If healthy, do you believe it's quite possible for him to duplicate 2007 Jerry Porter's numbers?
Click to expand...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/stor...mp;lid=tab3pos1
Click to expand...
And the point of that article was...? That he's a really nice and caring guy (which doesn't fit in with the piss poor attitude)? That he's seeking professional help to deal with the death of Williams? Isn't that a good thing?
 
AnonymousBob said:
Zoomanji said:
AnonymousBob said:
switz said:
Buy low? Buy dead.

Walker has rarely been healthy, he's on a run first team, with an inexperience and unproven QB. He has a piss poor attitude, and WRs with questionable attitudes rarely succeed in Oakland.

His upside is very very very low.
Click to expand...
Walker has been healthy in four of his six seasons. Link to piss poor attitude?

WR's with loads of talent tend to succeed. Questionable attitude or not.

The Oakland Raiders had McNown and Culpepper throwing them the ball. JaMarcus may turn out to be lousier but neither of those other guys sets a high bar.

What would you say is his upside? If healthy, do you believe it's quite possible for him to duplicate 2007 Jerry Porter's numbers?
Click to expand...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/stor...mp;lid=tab3pos1
Click to expand...
And the point of that article was...? That he's a really nice and caring guy (which doesn't fit in with the piss poor attitude)? That he's seeking professional help to deal with the death of Williams? Isn't that a good thing?
Click to expand...
He is?I think I missed that part. It read to me that he wasn't dealing with it very well and that all this could end very badly. Its already started. Who car did he get in and why is he now claiming that he was abducted when he wasn't. The guy has issues and until he deals with them his life will be a wreck.

As long as that's the case I don't want him on my team or my fantasy team.

Sure I'd buy low on him but it would have to be pretty low.

 
AnonymousBob said:
sho nuff said:
AnonymousBob said:
switz said:
Buy low? Buy dead.

Walker has rarely been healthy, he's on a run first team, with an inexperience and unproven QB. He has a piss poor attitude, and WRs with questionable attitudes rarely succeed in Oakland.

His upside is very very very low.
Click to expand...
Walker has been healthy in four of his six seasons. Link to piss poor attitude?

WR's with loads of talent tend to succeed. Questionable attitude or not.

The Oakland Raiders had McNown and Culpepper throwing them the ball. JaMarcus may turn out to be lousier but neither of those other guys sets a high bar.

What would you say is his upside? If healthy, do you believe it's quite possible for him to duplicate 2007 Jerry Porter's numbers?
Click to expand...
Are you in that much denial about his attitude?Ok...lets see, threatens a hold out begging for more money from a cash strapped team that was about to cut 2 pro-bowl Olinemen...then stating he would never again play for the Green Bay Packers.

Gets traded...pulls a similar stunt with saying he would want a trade if the Broncos asked him to take a pay cut. This after being hurt yet again.

Latest deal in Vegas...no matter what part you want to believe is not a good thing.

As to who the Raiders had throwing the WRs the ball..and they did what with McNown and Cpep? Little.

Porter...ummm...if he puts up 705 and 6 TDs...why would you want him on your team in the first place?
Click to expand...
C'mon now. Business is business. Contracts are negotiated all the time. Players constantly threaten to hold out/never again play for the same city/etc. It's not how I want things to run but it's the way the NFL has designed things. So it's okay for Denver to want to pay him less if he underperforms his contract but it's not okay for Walker to want more from Green Bay if he overperforms his contract? Huh? How does that make any sense?

Yes, the Raiders did little with Cpep/McNown/Porter. Porter ranked as the #36 wr. If you play in an 8 team league or a league where you start only 2 wr's then he shouldn't have been on your roster. Otherwise he was a fine #3.
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Yes...it is ok. Why? Because that is the deal the players have signed on for in the collective bargaining agreement.People concerned only with end of year ranks make me laugh.

He was a bad #3 (even by his ranking...in a 12 team league with 3 WRs he was the last one supposedly by your ranking). He was a bench player and nothing more.

So why buy low on a guy whose possible upside you are giving him here is a bench player?

 
Zoomanji said:
AnonymousBob said:
Zoomanji said:
AnonymousBob said:
switz said:
Buy low? Buy dead.

Walker has rarely been healthy, he's on a run first team, with an inexperience and unproven QB. He has a piss poor attitude, and WRs with questionable attitudes rarely succeed in Oakland.

His upside is very very very low.
Click to expand...
Walker has been healthy in four of his six seasons. Link to piss poor attitude?

WR's with loads of talent tend to succeed. Questionable attitude or not.

The Oakland Raiders had McNown and Culpepper throwing them the ball. JaMarcus may turn out to be lousier but neither of those other guys sets a high bar.

What would you say is his upside? If healthy, do you believe it's quite possible for him to duplicate 2007 Jerry Porter's numbers?
Click to expand...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/stor...mp;lid=tab3pos1
Click to expand...
And the point of that article was...? That he's a really nice and caring guy (which doesn't fit in with the piss poor attitude)? That he's seeking professional help to deal with the death of Williams? Isn't that a good thing?
Click to expand...
He is?I think I missed that part. It read to me that he wasn't dealing with it very well and that all this could end very badly. Its already started. Who car did he get in and why is he now claiming that he was abducted when he wasn't. The guy has issues and until he deals with them his life will be a wreck.

As long as that's the case I don't want him on my team or my fantasy team.

Sure I'd buy low on him but it would have to be pretty low.
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"Sherman said Walker recently told him he is seeking professional counseling to deal with his memories of Williams."This HBO interview was conducted for August 2008? Is that a typo?

He has not claimed he was abducted. The only place to make that claim was a tabloid website. That alleged claim has not been backed anywhere else or by anyone else.

 
Let's take a look at what we have here . . .

- Missed almost all of 2 of the past 3 seasons

- Cut from a team without a ton of WR depth for health reasons

- Threatened hold outs for more money at two franchises and not thought to have the best of attitudes

- Going to a team that the past few years has been a mess where even Randy Moss did very little (although much of that had to do with Moss)

- Playing for a very inexperienced QB on a team that seems better suited to running the football

- He recently got his clocked cleaned in a robbery

Could he match Porter's output from last year . . . sure if he's healthy enough to play in enough games to get there. And Porter ranked 37th last season. His ADP is currently WR 29. Even if he were to outrank his ADP, you're only gaining around 20 fantasy points on a full season if he ranked 19th. That's basically 1 point per game over the course of a season. Yet his floor is VERY low.

I personally would rather go in another direction at that point in the draft. There are a lot of "ifs" to Walker's success, and if I am going to play the "if healthy, if things go right, if everything clicks," I'd be more inclined to go fishing for his replacement than Walker (D-Jax at WR 55 based on ADP). Jackson has averaged 9 ppg over his career vs 8 ppg for Walker (9.5 over his past 5 years).

 
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David Yudkin said:
Let's take a look at what we have here . . .- Missed almost all of 2 of the past 3 seasons- Cut from a team without a ton of WR depth for health reasons- Threatened hold outs for more money at two franchises and not thought to have the best of attitudes- Going to a team that the past few years has been a mess where even Randy Moss did very little (although much of that had to do with Moss)- Playing for a very inexperienced QB on a team that seems better suited to running the football- He recently got his clocked cleaned in a robberyCould he match Porter's output from last year . . . sure he he's healthy enough to play in enough games to get there. And Porter ranked 37th last season. His ADP is currently WR 29. Even if he were to outrank his ADP, you're only gaining around 20 fantasy points on a full season if he ranked 19th. That's basically 1 point per game over the course of a season. Yet his floor is VERY low.I personally would rather go in another direction at that point in the draft. There are a lot of "ifs" to Walker's success, and if I am going to play the "if healthy, if things go right, if everything clicks," I'd be more inclined to go fishing for his replacement than Walker (D-Jax at WR 55 based on ADP). Jackson has averaged 9 ppg over his career vs 8 ppg for Walker (9.5 over his past 5 years).
Click to expand...
:wall:
 
sho nuff said:
Yes...it is ok. Why? Because that is the deal the players have signed on for in the collective bargaining agreement.People concerned only with end of year ranks make me laugh.He was a bad #3 (even by his ranking...in a 12 team league with 3 WRs he was the last one supposedly by your ranking). He was a bench player and nothing more.So why buy low on a guy whose possible upside you are giving him here is a bench player?
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Let's leave the collective bargaining agreement out of this since we'll have to agree to disagree.Using your line of thought, his floor is where he's being drafted. So...at a minimum he's going to perform exactly where he's being drafted?
 
AnonymousBob said:
sho nuff said:
Yes...it is ok. Why? Because that is the deal the players have signed on for in the collective bargaining agreement.People concerned only with end of year ranks make me laugh.He was a bad #3 (even by his ranking...in a 12 team league with 3 WRs he was the last one supposedly by your ranking). He was a bench player and nothing more.So why buy low on a guy whose possible upside you are giving him here is a bench player?
Click to expand...
Let's leave the collective bargaining agreement out of this since we'll have to agree to disagree.Using your line of thought, his floor is where he's being drafted. So...at a minimum he's going to perform exactly where he's being drafted?
Click to expand...
So you want to leave facts out of this? Because it is factual that the players, through their union, have agreed to the collective bargaining agreement which outlines their contracts and what teams can do.Where did I claim his floor is where he is being drafted?I have not discussed his floor except for a :goodposting: to DY who in part of his post stated his floor is very low.
 
AnonymousBob said:
sho nuff said:
Yes...it is ok. Why? Because that is the deal the players have signed on for in the collective bargaining agreement.People concerned only with end of year ranks make me laugh.He was a bad #3 (even by his ranking...in a 12 team league with 3 WRs he was the last one supposedly by your ranking). He was a bench player and nothing more.So why buy low on a guy whose possible upside you are giving him here is a bench player?
Click to expand...
Let's leave the collective bargaining agreement out of this since we'll have to agree to disagree.Using your line of thought, his floor is where he's being drafted. So...at a minimum he's going to perform exactly where he's being drafted?
Click to expand...
ok, you win .... Walker is going to be a steal!! Enough already
 
David Yudkin said:
Let's take a look at what we have here . . .- Missed almost all of 2 of the past 3 seasons- Cut from a team without a ton of WR depth for health reasons- Threatened hold outs for more money at two franchises and not thought to have the best of attitudes- Going to a team that the past few years has been a mess where even Randy Moss did very little (although much of that had to do with Moss)- Playing for a very inexperienced QB on a team that seems better suited to running the football- He recently got his clocked cleaned in a robberyCould he match Porter's output from last year . . . sure if he's healthy enough to play in enough games to get there. And Porter ranked 37th last season. His ADP is currently WR 29. Even if he were to outrank his ADP, you're only gaining around 20 fantasy points on a full season if he ranked 19th. That's basically 1 point per game over the course of a season. Yet his floor is VERY low.I personally would rather go in another direction at that point in the draft. There are a lot of "ifs" to Walker's success, and if I am going to play the "if healthy, if things go right, if everything clicks," I'd be more inclined to go fishing for his replacement than Walker (D-Jax at WR 55 based on ADP). Jackson has averaged 9 ppg over his career vs 8 ppg for Walker (9.5 over his past 5 years).
Click to expand...
:shrug:I want no part of Walker, Curry, or Carter this year. One of them may emerge, but I think I'm more likely to be able to find better WR value elsewhere.
 
- Missed almost all of 2 of the past 3 seasons
Click to expand...
And that one year, after coming back from injury, he managed to put up 1,000 + and 8 td's. So he's shown he can come back after getting hurt, having surgery and still perform at a high level.
- Cut from a team without a ton of WR depth for health reasons
Click to expand...
Yet if he had agreed to a pay cut they would have kept him around. So he obviously wasn't so damaged that Sherman and company never thought he'd be able to play again.
- Threatened hold outs for more money at two franchises and not thought to have the best of attitudes
Click to expand...
Lots of players threaten to hold out for more money. They have to make it while they can. Your point?
- Going to a team that the past few years has been a mess where even Randy Moss did very little (although much of that had to do with Moss)
Click to expand...
You admit the wr's fared poorly yet admit in the same post that was largely due to the receiver himself. And are we really comparing Art Shell and his bed and breakfast offense to ANYBODY else? Remember, this offense was terrible on a historic level. Kiffin at least appears to be competent. But taking any stats from the :unsure: part 2 era is setting up a straw man.
- Playing for a very inexperienced QB on a team that seems better suited to running the football
Click to expand...
Kiffin took a team that was lousy on a historic level and turned them into a respectable offense. That's a bad thing? I don't believe will be any worse than last year.
- He recently got his clocked cleaned in a robbery
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That might be cause for concern if he wasn't expected to be fine (as in 100%) for Training Camp.I understand your hesitation with Walker. But DJax isn't going to become the #1 option on the Broncos - that's Marshall's job. I'd much rather gamble with a team's #1 than a team's #2 or 3.
 
sho nuff said:
AnonymousBob said:
sho nuff said:
Yes...it is ok. Why? Because that is the deal the players have signed on for in the collective bargaining agreement.People concerned only with end of year ranks make me laugh.He was a bad #3 (even by his ranking...in a 12 team league with 3 WRs he was the last one supposedly by your ranking). He was a bench player and nothing more.So why buy low on a guy whose possible upside you are giving him here is a bench player?
Click to expand...
Let's leave the collective bargaining agreement out of this since we'll have to agree to disagree.Using your line of thought, his floor is where he's being drafted. So...at a minimum he's going to perform exactly where he's being drafted?
Click to expand...
So you want to leave facts out of this? Because it is factual that the players, through their union, have agreed to the collective bargaining agreement which outlines their contracts and what teams can do.Where did I claim his floor is where he is being drafted?I have not discussed his floor except for a :unsure: to DY who in part of his post stated his floor is very low.
Click to expand...
It's factual that players hold out for more money. It's a fact teams sign players for x amount but rarely pay them what they signed for. It's a fact of business in the NFL. It doesn't stop and it doesn't help a player perform and better or any worse.If he does what Porter did he's not far off from meeting his ADP. He could get injured but injury concerns are with every player. I don't see injury concerns stopping many people from snagging AJ early and often. I don't believe the Raiders would have grabbed him if they didn't believe he was healthy.
 
I agree, Walker is a great buy low. Unfortunately for me none of his current owner seem to agree and aren't selling..... I've been trying to trade for Walker for almost 2 months now.

 
burd said:
AnonymousBob said:
sho nuff said:
Yes...it is ok. Why? Because that is the deal the players have signed on for in the collective bargaining agreement.People concerned only with end of year ranks make me laugh.He was a bad #3 (even by his ranking...in a 12 team league with 3 WRs he was the last one supposedly by your ranking). He was a bench player and nothing more.So why buy low on a guy whose possible upside you are giving him here is a bench player?
Click to expand...
Let's leave the collective bargaining agreement out of this since we'll have to agree to disagree.Using your line of thought, his floor is where he's being drafted. So...at a minimum he's going to perform exactly where he's being drafted?
Click to expand...
ok, you win .... Walker is going to be a steal!! Enough already
Click to expand...
I see this kind of posting in a lot of threads where somebody has a belief and doesn't change their mind at the drop of a hat. And I have to ask you the following question: why did you waste your time and mine? Just leave the thread and be done with it. I don't believe I've been obnoxious. I haven't attacked anyone nor has anyone attacked me. Let's be civil, okay? It's nothing personal, I just really despise these kind of posts.
 
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jurb26 said:
I agree, Walker is a great buy low. Unfortunately for me none of his current owner seem to agree and aren't selling..... I've been trying to trade for Walker for almost 2 months now.
Click to expand...
That's too bad. Out of curiousity, what were you offering?
 
jurb26 said:
I agree, Walker is a great buy low. Unfortunately for me none of his current owner seem to agree and aren't selling..... I've been trying to trade for Walker for almost 2 months now.
Click to expand...
Hmmm.....Maybe it's because you offered nothing for him. Offer up the lint in your pockets and you should get him....He's worth a very low offer or draft pick. But he'll be LONG gone before I pull the trigger on him.
 
jurb26 said:
AnonymousBob said:
jurb26 said:
I agree, Walker is a great buy low. Unfortunately for me none of his current owner seem to agree and aren't selling..... I've been trying to trade for Walker for almost 2 months now.
Click to expand...
That's too bad. Out of curiousity, what were you offering?
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I think the best I've offered thus far is a 2nd round dynasty pick.
Click to expand...
That's about what I think he's worth, but I can't see any owner trading him for that.
 
AnonymousBob said:
switz said:
Buy low? Buy dead.Walker has rarely been healthy, he's on a run first team, with an inexperience and unproven QB. He has a piss poor attitude, and WRs with questionable attitudes rarely succeed in Oakland.His upside is very very very low.
Click to expand...
Walker has been healthy in four of his six seasons.
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Fair enough, but he wasn't used much as a WR his first two seasons. His third he exploded, played on game the following season. Went to the Broncos and was very good again, but then missed a lot of time last season. The guys knee just doesn't seem intent on holding up.
AnonymousBob said:
Link to piss poor attitude?
Click to expand...
Hard to link to an attitude... but I've heard reports from multiple sources that he was not team oriented.
AnonymousBob said:
WR's with loads of talent tend to succeed. Questionable attitude or not.
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Randy Moss in Oakland? Jerry Porter in Oakland? Name the last exceptional Oak WR....
AnonymousBob said:
The Oakland Raiders had McNown and Culpepper throwing them the ball. JaMarcus may turn out to be lousier but neither of those other guys sets a high bar.
Click to expand...
Agreed, but IMO it's more of the same until Russell learns the pro game. And the team is built to run run run run run right now.
AnonymousBob said:
What would you say is his upside? If healthy, do you believe it's quite possible for him to duplicate 2007 Jerry Porter's numbers?
Click to expand...
Yep, that's probably where I'd put my expectations for him. If he's available at that slot I'd take him, but I have the feeling he will go higher in most drafts. I guess I just don't see his value plummeting long term.
 
switz said:
AnonymousBob said:
switz said:
Buy low? Buy dead.

Walker has rarely been healthy, he's on a run first team, with an inexperience and unproven QB. He has a piss poor attitude, and WRs with questionable attitudes rarely succeed in Oakland.

His upside is very very very low.
Click to expand...
Walker has been healthy in four of his six seasons.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, but he wasn't used much as a WR his first two seasons. His third he exploded, played on game the following season. Went to the Broncos and was very good again, but then missed a lot of time last season. The guys knee just doesn't seem intent on holding up.The knee is an understandable concern. I'm not ready to say he has some chronic condition and while I like to ridicule Al Davis, I don't believe the Raiders would have signed him if they didn't believe he was going to be healthy. If the Broncos didn't think he was going to be healthy I believe they would have simply cut him instead asking him to take a pay cut.

AnonymousBob said:
Link to piss poor attitude?
Click to expand...
Hard to link to an attitude... but I've heard reports from multiple sources that he was not team oriented.There have been numerous reports he kept to himself and was a loner in Denver, especially after Williams died. I don't consider being a loner a bad source. By multiple sources he's a very nice guy and very caring for those around him.

AnonymousBob said:
WR's with loads of talent tend to succeed. Questionable attitude or not.
Click to expand...
Randy Moss in Oakland? Jerry Porter in Oakland? Name the last exceptional Oak WR....Let's not mention any player from the Art Shell era. They have a new coach from yesteryear. The never had so never can argument is one I don't agree with.

AnonymousBob said:
The Oakland Raiders had McNown and Culpepper throwing them the ball. JaMarcus may turn out to be lousier but neither of those other guys sets a high bar.
Click to expand...
Agreed, but IMO it's more of the same until Russell learns the pro game. And the team is built to run run run run run right now.I don't think the Raiders plan to throw LESS than last year. In 2007 they ranked as the #31 passing team. For as much of a rushing team as they were, they only ranked as #21 rushing team.

AnonymousBob said:
What would you say is his upside? If healthy, do you believe it's quite possible for him to duplicate 2007 Jerry Porter's numbers?
Click to expand...
Yep, that's probably where I'd put my expectations for him. If he's available at that slot I'd take him, but I have the feeling he will go higher in most drafts. I guess I just don't see his value plummeting long term.
Click to expand...
So if healthy, you believe Walker will live up to his ADP or come darned close to it. So the downside is obviously his health. Or lack thereof. But if he doesn't get hurt I just don't see JaMarcus being any lousier than what they had last season. The Raiders of last year only looked good because what they had the year before was truly horrific. Lots of players are being drafted on risks. AJ just had his knee scoped. Chad Johnson may hold out and he hasn't been a force in most of his games the past two years despite not being hurt. T.O. really slowed down at the end of last year - is age finally hitting him? What happens to Steve Smith if Delhomme goes down or isn't totally healthy?

There are questions about all kinds of guys - and Walker may or may not be a flop. But if he's healthy I don't see him landing right around where his ADP currently has him ranked - and that's if the Raiders do not improve their second to last rating in any way, shape or form.

I guess I just don't see his value plummeting long term.
Click to expand...
I completely agree. But it's plummeted short term which is why imo he's a BUY LOW.
 
Been trying to deal this bum since he signed in Oakland. I can't get a nibble for him!

At this point I'd move him for virtually anything, if only there was a taker.

 
For the record, I expect Carter to easily be Oakland's best receiver this year, and I want no part of Walker. I would not be surprised if Carter's numbers are something like 1,200 & 9. And don't wait to pick him up on waivers. Draft him before someone else does.

Don't say I didn't tell you.

My 3 "do-over" wishes for Oakland's offseason:

- Don't pay Tommy Kelly as if he was Tommie Harris

- Don't sign Walker

- Draft Dorsey over McFadden

Time will tell on all of this, I guess. Even still, I think we're the second-best team in the division.

 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
AnonymousBob said:
gregjcross said:
I bought low on Ron Curry and I think i'll stay with him. :popcorn:
Click to expand...
Curry isn't a bad buy low but you're missing out on Walker. Curry and Walker are the same age and Javon has accomplished a lot more in his career than Ronald has. Javon, if healthy, has shown he can play at an elite level. Curry, if healthy, has shown he can play at a good level.There's nothing wrong with grabbing Curry but I can't understand why you'd be high on him and not Walker.
Click to expand...
they are both injury prone, the true value play is Drew Carter, but you can probably wait to grab him on the WW
Click to expand...
:popcorn:
 
ThePittbully said:
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
AnonymousBob said:
gregjcross said:
I bought low on Ron Curry and I think i'll stay with him. :popcorn:
Click to expand...
Curry isn't a bad buy low but you're missing out on Walker. Curry and Walker are the same age and Javon has accomplished a lot more in his career than Ronald has. Javon, if healthy, has shown he can play at an elite level. Curry, if healthy, has shown he can play at a good level.There's nothing wrong with grabbing Curry but I can't understand why you'd be high on him and not Walker.
Click to expand...
they are both injury prone, the true value play is Drew Carter, but you can probably wait to grab him on the WW
Click to expand...
:popcorn:
Click to expand...
Good luck with that. He is worth a roster spot in deep leagues, but I would temper expectations.
 
fwiw, I just acquired him for a 2008 mid 3rd round rookie pick, and a 2009 2nd round rookie pick. 12 team IDP, we are currently drafting.

 
Even though I am not high on Walker, I did explore a buy low with his owner in MOX VI. I offered Clemens and 2.6 (the 20th pick in the rookie draft) for Walker. The Walker owner's QBs are Kitna, O'Sullivan, and Josh McCown and no rookie draft picks. He rejected it immediately.

(Edited because I confused this with a different trade offer the first time.)

 
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Raider Nation said:
For the record, I expect Carter to easily be Oakland's best receiver this year, and I want no part of Walker. I would not be surprised if Carter's numbers are something like 1,200 & 9. And don't wait to pick him up on waivers. Draft him before someone else does.

Don't say I didn't tell you.

My 3 "do-over" wishes for Oakland's offseason:

- Don't pay Tommy Kelly as if he was Tommie Harris

- Don't sign Walker

- Draft Dorsey over McFadden

Time will tell on all of this, I guess. Even still, I think we're the second-best team in the division.
Click to expand...
those numbers are a tad high.i certainly think in 12 man start 3WR he's draftable. but odds are he's off of most people's radars.

 
QUEZILLA said:
fwiw, I just acquired him for a 2008 mid 3rd round rookie pick, and a 2009 2nd round rookie pick. 12 team IDP, we are currently drafting.
Click to expand...
Even though I am not a Walker fanboy (despite what the other thread may suggest), that seems to confirm him as a buy low.EDIT: Well, in one league anyway. Good deal for you, IMO.
 
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