Black
Footballguy
What's Davis' history with coaches? A little less patient than teams like the Steelers, I suppose.
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Kiffin might be out... someday (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Raider Nation
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Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
Bye Bye Lance.
Autumn Wind
Footballguy
Davis looks the fool no matter what. If you believe Kiffin has the goods to be a great coach then Al looks bad for canning him early and for the stunts he pulled in the offsesaon. If you think Kiffin never had any business being a head coach in the first place, that too rests on Al.
kaso
Footballguy
I do NOT like this move at all. Changing coaches mid season buys the team nothing but problems and confusion.
The two things that keep ringing in my head while I read through this thread are:
1. Regardless of who is brought in, or should I say moved up (Likely Lofton, possibly Ryan) to replace Kiffin, it will not be an upgrade.
2. I sure do hope this does not negatively affect the development of the young players on the roster. Kiffin did the right thing with waiting on Russell. I hope the next coach knows how to develop the youth on the team (Russell, McFadden, Bush, Higgins, Miller, etc).
The two things that keep ringing in my head while I read through this thread are:
1. Regardless of who is brought in, or should I say moved up (Likely Lofton, possibly Ryan) to replace Kiffin, it will not be an upgrade.
2. I sure do hope this does not negatively affect the development of the young players on the roster. Kiffin did the right thing with waiting on Russell. I hope the next coach knows how to develop the youth on the team (Russell, McFadden, Bush, Higgins, Miller, etc).
Autumn Wind
Footballguy
It doesn't matter what the coach knows - Al will want Russell to throw a dozen bombs a game, so he will.
BigRed
Footballguy
How about a more sane atmosphere - Kiffen near as I can tell wasn't doing a bad job. They just barely lost to a good BUF team despite not 1 but 2 top RBs either out or nursing injuries, a QB making his what 3d or 4th start, basically nothing at WR.....need I go on? IMO this is just another scapegoat move by one of the worst owners in football. Until Davis dies (since he will never relinquish even the tiniest bit of control), this team will continue to be a joke. Not that I'm complaining mind you.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Davis has done a nice job of bringing young coaches into the league for other teams. Kiffin probably hopes to go the Shanahan/Gruden route. Now, having fired the guy with talent he will hire a recycled Raider, once he fails Davis will locate the next great young coach who will excel elsewhere after he gets fired by the Raiders. Its the circle of life in Raider nation.
I'm just curious, what masochist is going to take a job coaching the Raiders. Al Davis is probably going to have to shell out another boatload of money to get somebody to come in next season. Because who in their right mind would want to deal with Al and his antics.. they're better off trying to make money out of the deal with their own reality television show... I can just see it now.
Al Davis with a comb over haircut telling people... "YOU'RE FIRED"
Al Davis with a comb over haircut telling people... "YOU'RE FIRED"
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Mungo Burrows
Footballguy
I could see Dennis Green auditioning for this show. He seems like the type who will do just about anything to get a head coaching job. And it's just what that team would need - someone to abandon the running game and chuck the ball all over the field.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
I've read rumors that Davis wants James Lofton to run the team. I don't know if there is any petty animosity between the offense and Ryan, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was. That offense played hard for Kiffin, or so it seemed, and Ryan was a jerk to Kiff, or so it seemed. Regardless, they are playing good offensive football considering the limited passing game. I had the pleasure of listening to Lofton talk football for over an hour a couple years ago when he was with the Chargers, and I thought then he should get a future head coaching gig. I also see him as the type who could subdue the media a little, whereas Ryan would incite things. Ending the circus would be good for the younger players. Lofton would also have the immediate respect of the offense and defense. I'm reading between a lot of lines here, but I would be impressed by Al and optimistic about the Raiders (whoa) if he chose Lofton to coach this team. I liked the team I saw on the field yesterday. They are a mediocre passing attack away from being a very tough out.
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T Man
Footballguy
The ESPN story is interesting. It says that the "last straw" was the fact that Oakland gave up 17 poinits in the last 8 minutes to Buffalo. That sounds like a problem to blame on Kiffin's offense. 
The story goes on to say that Kiffin had asked Davis to make a coaching change at defensive coordinator, but Davis said no. (And, in fact, Davis told all the coaches that Kiffin wanted to change about Kiffin's desires - something that I am sure has been great for team chemistry).
It would not be surprising to ssee Ryan or Lofton as the coach - but Davis would have to see them as true head coach material. WHY? Because if they do fairly well, they will want the job to keep.
As such, it may be more likely that Davis looks to someone like Dennis Green or Jim Fassel agree to be caretakers of the team for the next 13 games - while Davis uncovers another young coach. HE does have talent in that respect.
The story goes on to say that Kiffin had asked Davis to make a coaching change at defensive coordinator, but Davis said no. (And, in fact, Davis told all the coaches that Kiffin wanted to change about Kiffin's desires - something that I am sure has been great for team chemistry).
It would not be surprising to ssee Ryan or Lofton as the coach - but Davis would have to see them as true head coach material. WHY? Because if they do fairly well, they will want the job to keep.
As such, it may be more likely that Davis looks to someone like Dennis Green or Jim Fassel agree to be caretakers of the team for the next 13 games - while Davis uncovers another young coach. HE does have talent in that respect.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
I'd like to join those who place all the blame on Al, but I think the initial mistake was hiring Kiffin who wasn't ready for a top spot. I felt at the time that it was crazy Al's way of trying to hire Pete Carrol by proxy, and out of spite to Pete for turning down the job. Kiffin always seemed over his head to me. I don't think he's the bright young candidate so many of you seem to see. Who knows? He needs a decade behind he scenes, imo. No doubt it was an awful situation for someone so green, but the blame does go both ways. Has he officially been canned yet?
fatness
Footballguy
It's somewhat negated by "having Al Davis hire you in the first place".
massraider
Footballguy
Who the heck are you arguing with?Yeah, who here wants to defend Kiffin for wanting to leave that coaching Garden of Eden that is the Oakland Raiders? The irony of Al getting his Depends in a twist of coaches' lack of faithfulness is astounding and, I'm sure, completely lost on Al.
massraider
Footballguy
Shanahan and Gruden seem to have shaken this horrible label nicely.
LarryAllen'sJockstrap
Footballguy
*** Conspiracy theory alert ***I was thinking about this yesterday. What if Kiffin knew he was out either way (win/loss) and as one last shot to stick it to Davis, he doesn't call the time outs, helping Buffalo get the win. He couldn't do something blatantly obvious like subbing in a practice squad player at QB, but that was a perfect opportunity to not help his team out, which he took. And afterwards, no one could say he tanked it, he just made a bone-headed mistake by not using his timeouts.
Broncoholic
Footballguy
How long till the Broncos pick him up as an "advisor"?
If this is even possible, I really have no idea.
If this is even possible, I really have no idea.
massraider
Footballguy
Kiffin's answer was that he didn't want the Bills to get it any closer. He said if he had called the timeouts, the Bills would have run another play, and the defense was letting them move the ball, so he wanted the field goal as far away as possible. He said he was afraid if he called the timeouts, it would be a "chip shot" field goal. Lack of faith in his defense was his "reason".Apparently he wanted to hope that Lindell miss it, and wasn't interested in Johnnie Lee Higgins getting a shot at a return.
Chaka
Footballguy
Nope, Kiffin has not been fired...yet.
T Bell
Footballguy
Al's trying to remember what it was he wanted to do today after he came into the office. Give him some time, please.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Yes, but ESPN'S CHRIS MORTENSEN just reiterated that it's about to happen, according to his sources..........
T Bell
Footballguy
You seem to be arguing that both sides are to blame here. I partially disagree with you.Who the heck are you arguing with?Yeah, who here wants to defend Kiffin for wanting to leave that coaching Garden of Eden that is the Oakland Raiders? The irony of Al getting his Depends in a twist of coaches' lack of faithfulness is astounding and, I'm sure, completely lost on Al.
massraider
Footballguy
I think anyone who has been following the situation would surmise that Kiffin was looking for a way out since the first season ended. And my only point is that I don't think anyone is looking too much into it, they are just laying all the blame at Al's feet. The facts seem to show that Kiffin is not blameless. Which is a small point. I still want Kiffin, and wish Al would give him complete control of the staff. but it isn't going to happen, and Kiffin KNEW it wasn't going to happen. Al didn't change, Kiffin knew he wasn't going to be given carte blanche. And really, a 31 year old with no pro experience shouldn't expect that.You seem to be arguing that both sides are to blame here. I partially disagree with you.Who the heck are you arguing with?Yeah, who here wants to defend Kiffin for wanting to leave that coaching Garden of Eden that is the Oakland Raiders? The irony of Al getting his Depends in a twist of coaches' lack of faithfulness is astounding and, I'm sure, completely lost on Al.
He didn't snuff out the Arkansas rumors, which is telling. Especially considering how candid he was on almost every other interview. He threw his defense under the bus, he bad-mouthed his roster all summer, he basically shifted any responsibility for bad performance to anyone other than himself.
With all that, I DO wish Davis had given Kiffin the green light to fire Ryan. Kiffin has impressed me with what he has done with the offense, his hires of Knapp and Cable were strong, the ZBS has been a homerun. and their ability to protect the QB through misdirection is commendable.
I was just warning against the kind of mis-informed, blanket statements that come from lack of knowledge. The kind of statement you made.
Chaka
Footballguy
He isn't really attributing it to his sources, he is merely letting us all know that he is getting his learn on.
T Bell
Footballguy
I think you and I are in agreement. My apologies for misunderstanding your position. The way I would state this is that Al has made his own bed (and frankly he's been pooping in it for 20 years), and he's lying in it. I refuse to blame the poop for smelling bad.I think anyone who has been following the situation would surmise that Kiffin was looking for a way out since the first season ended. And my only point is that I don't think anyone is looking too much into it, they are just laying all the blame at Al's feet. The facts seem to show that Kiffin is not blameless. Which is a small point. I still want Kiffin, and wish Al would give him complete control of the staff. but it isn't going to happen, and Kiffin KNEW it wasn't going to happen. Al didn't change, Kiffin knew he wasn't going to be given carte blanche. And really, a 31 year old with no pro experience shouldn't expect that.You seem to be arguing that both sides are to blame here. I partially disagree with you.Who the heck are you arguing with?Yeah, who here wants to defend Kiffin for wanting to leave that coaching Garden of Eden that is the Oakland Raiders? The irony of Al getting his Depends in a twist of coaches' lack of faithfulness is astounding and, I'm sure, completely lost on Al.
He didn't snuff out the Arkansas rumors, which is telling. Especially considering how candid he was on almost every other interview. He threw his defense under the bus, he bad-mouthed his roster all summer, he basically shifted any responsibility for bad performance to anyone other than himself.
With all that, I DO wish Davis had given Kiffin the green light to fire Ryan. Kiffin has impressed me with what he has done with the offense, his hires of Knapp and Cable were strong, the ZBS has been a homerun. and their ability to protect the QB through misdirection is commendable.
I was just warning against the kind of mis-informed, blanket statements that come from lack of knowledge. The kind of statement you made.
massraider
Footballguy
Yes, we are definitely on the same page. He is going to wind up with Yes-men on both sides of the line, and they'll continue to spoil on the vine.I think you and I are in agreement. My apologies for misunderstanding your position. The way I would state this is that Al has made his own bed (and frankly he's been pooping in it for 20 years), and he's lying in it. I refuse to blame the poop for smelling bad.I think anyone who has been following the situation would surmise that Kiffin was looking for a way out since the first season ended. And my only point is that I don't think anyone is looking too much into it, they are just laying all the blame at Al's feet. The facts seem to show that Kiffin is not blameless. Which is a small point. I still want Kiffin, and wish Al would give him complete control of the staff. but it isn't going to happen, and Kiffin KNEW it wasn't going to happen. Al didn't change, Kiffin knew he wasn't going to be given carte blanche. And really, a 31 year old with no pro experience shouldn't expect that.You seem to be arguing that both sides are to blame here. I partially disagree with you.Who the heck are you arguing with?Yeah, who here wants to defend Kiffin for wanting to leave that coaching Garden of Eden that is the Oakland Raiders? The irony of Al getting his Depends in a twist of coaches' lack of faithfulness is astounding and, I'm sure, completely lost on Al.
He didn't snuff out the Arkansas rumors, which is telling. Especially considering how candid he was on almost every other interview. He threw his defense under the bus, he bad-mouthed his roster all summer, he basically shifted any responsibility for bad performance to anyone other than himself.
With all that, I DO wish Davis had given Kiffin the green light to fire Ryan. Kiffin has impressed me with what he has done with the offense, his hires of Knapp and Cable were strong, the ZBS has been a homerun. and their ability to protect the QB through misdirection is commendable.
I was just warning against the kind of mis-informed, blanket statements that come from lack of knowledge. The kind of statement you made.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Didn't Al forfeit any real credibility in this situation when he wrote up a resignation for Kiffin to sign and thus cut off the pay spigot? Oh, Al is so gonna stiff Kiffin here.
First thing that came to my mind:Finally, Roberts decided something. He said, "All right, Westley, I've never had a valet. You can try it for tonight. I'll most likely kill you in the morning." Three years he said that. "Good night, Westley. Good work. Sleep well. I'll most likely kill you in the morning." It was a fine time for me. I was learning to fence, to fight, anything anyone would teach me. And Roberts and I eventually became friends. And then it happened.
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T Bell
Footballguy
So are you saying that Kiffin will be the next Al Davis, sitting up in the booth in a jumpsuit with a just-in-case towel and a leer for everyone?
Gr00vus
Footballguy
That was the worst clock management I've ever seen. I'd want to fire the guy if I was the owner after seeing that.Mark it down!So are you saying that Kiffin will be the next Al Davis, sitting up in the booth in a jumpsuit with a just-in-case towel and a leer for everyone?
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
T Bell
Footballguy
I already responded to it, but this was very well played.
Aerial Assault
Footballguy
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I'd said from the start it was a bad idea, and here we are today.However the reason Davis hires guys like this is pretty simple - they work cheap and Davis thinks they'll be happy being under his thumb. Davis refuses to pay for coaches, and the results show on the field.If he was at all interested in getting this team going in the right direction he should try and work out some unholy alliance with Marty - he'd be the perfect coach for this situation. But Al will never do that because a) Marty will want 
and b) Marty would want more control over the team and the staff than Al can handle.So the next coach will be more of the same - working for cheap and beholden to Al for all decisions.Things don't get better until Al kicks it - it's the same old refrain.
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T Bell
Footballguy
My brother just now emailed me this, which seems pertinent in light of these last comments:
However the reason Davis hires guys like this is pretty simple - they work cheap and Davis thinks they'll be happy being under his thumb. Davis refuses to pay for coaches, and the results show on the field.
If he was at all interested in getting this team going in the right direction he should try and work out some unholy alliance with Marty - he'd be the perfect coach for this situation. But Al will never do that because a) Marty will want
So the next coach will be more of the same - working for cheap and beholden to Al for all decisions.
Things don't get better until Al kicks it - it's the same old refrain.
switz
Footballguy
Davis apparently thinks Ryan is good... he just doesn't realize he has Rob, not Buddy on staff...Watch Ryan get the HC job LOL
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Big Score
Footballguy
Who will be his OC?
Hue G
Footballguy
Stewart Scott
yellowdog
Footballguy
Twilight
Footballguy
Davis like Ryan because Ryan is willing to play the Man to Man D that Davis wants. Likewise one reason he dislikes Kiffin is that Kiffin doesn't want to run the "throw the long bomb" offense that Davis wants.
Autumn Wind
Footballguy
Also, Lane keeps landing his frisbee in Al's lawn and tramples Al's garden to get to it.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I like a good Al Davis joke as much as the next guy, but all of you need to work on your material.
It's at Carrot Top level right now. Let's at least shoot for Bob Saget.
It's at Carrot Top level right now. Let's at least shoot for Bob Saget.
Autumn Wind
Footballguy
Hey, I resent that. Now if I pulled out a mummy with a microphone and called it an Al Davis press conference, then I'd be Carrot Top.
