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[DYNASTY] 2009 Top 12 Rookie Rankings (1 Viewer)

Cookiemonster said:
teamroc said:
I'd wager Micheal Crabtree will get insane hype. Calvin was taken 1.01 in a lot of leagues, 1.02 in a bunch more and at worst 1.03 (ppr, which is all I play).

I don't think there is anyway he falls to 1.05 or 1.06. 1.03-1.04 seems like a good bet. The combine will tell most of the story on that end. Calvin went to the Lions and that didn't hurt his stock, so I'm not sure Crabtree could land in a spot that actually knocks him out of the top 5.

Beyond that, some good lists.
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Crabtree won't come out and run a 4.3 at Calvin's size. The hype on Calvin was justified, but based as much on potential as his athleticism. Braylon Edwards (before he got the dropsies this year) would have made a good comparison to Crabtree as well, but Braylon is faster too. I like the Bowe comparison very much, but I'm betting with the 40 times Macklin, Harvin & DHB are expected to put up, they will make Crabtree a little forgotten come draft day. Not saying they will go before him, but either one of them could (remember Avery last year). Add to this, there are likely 4 elite WR rookies and a very nice looking 2nd & 3rd tier. WR value in the draft will likely hurt itself by teams needing a WR waiting 'till later to get one "about as good." If he slips out of the top 5 in the NFL draft and Macklin goes 3 spots later, with Harvin & DHB in the following 5 picks... there is certainly a chance that a fantasy draft could see Crabtree go after a homer pick to 1.04 or 1.05. Especially if he lands in say - Oakland.
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Yeah Oakland is the black hole. Anywhere else, I think he's top 3 ppr dynasty rookie. He's a once in 5-6 year type WR. He's the best WR I've seen this year. Maybe I'm a little too high on the guy, but I see him cracking the top 3 in dynasty drafts. The Raiders of course kill his value. The combine always shakes things up. But at this moment, there's only a few RBs I'd take over him, and no other WRs.

 
Crippler said:
Since so many leagues are different, I thought I would get your thoughts on a 16 team league that starts 11 O players with lots of flex including 2 QB's which get 6 pts and 3 for picks. Basically 1 per 20 and .5 per reception with TE's getting 1 per 10. K also has some value as can start 2 and they get 4 points for 40 plus FB's and 5 for 50. So TD heavy in the endI know if you did a mock of last year that Ryan would have the #1 pick(he went 6th) and Flacco would be the #2(he went 16th). Keller would be top 16 also. We do our draft the day before the NFL draft for just round 1 so always interesting to read this stuffMy mock which could be based on need also.1. Sam Bradford2. Matthew Stafford3. Chris Wells4. Micheal Crabtree5. Knowshown Moreno6. Graham Harrell7. Jeremy Macklin8. Shonne Greene9. Leshon McCoy10. D H Bey11. Percy Harvin12. Jermaine Grisham13. Sam Swank PK14. DeMarco Murray15. CJ Spiller16. Kenny Britt
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It's hard for me to make suggestions about that type of league since I'm not familiar with the format. The main thing I would do is split the players up in rankings by position. That would look something like:QB1. Sam Bradford2. Matt Stafford3. Nate Davis (haven't seen him play, so I don't have an opinion yet)RB1. Knowshon Moreno2. Shonn Greene3. Chris Wells4. LeSean McCoy5. CJ Spiller6. DeMarco MurrayWR1. Michael Crabtree2. Jeremy Maclin3. Percy Harvin4. Darrius Heyward-Bey5. Jarett Dillard6. Kenny BrittTE1. Brandon Pettigrew2. Jermaine GreshamYou sort of have to "feel" where the talent dropoff is. For example, if QB is the most valuable position and you think Bradford is an elite QB prospect then he should be at the top of your list. But if you think Stafford is merely a "good" prospect and you think someone like Crabtree or Moreno is an elite prospect then you should probably pass on Stafford for Moreno or Crabtree (even though QB is the most valuable position in your league). A good general rule is to always take the best player available. In the long run, I think it usually works out. Many of my worst draft picks happened when I passed on elite WRs/QBs/LBs for a low round RB.
 
DeMarco Murray will be the Chris Johnson/Matt Forte of this class

the one who'll you'll be kicking yourself for passing up

 
Max Power said:
Overall: Wells is the biggest enigma in this draft class. He shows flashes of greatness , but I think he's a much bigger boom-or-bust proposition than his reputation would indicate. He might ultimately become the best FF player from this class, but there's enough risk here for me to let someone else take that gamble.
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:goodposting: So he might have the highest ceiling of any prospect in the class, but could also bust the same as anyone else in the class. I'm just trying to understand this quote. Personally he seems like he might have one of the highest "floors" in this class.
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It's all about uncertainty. Think of it this way, going into the season did you have Dwayne Bowe or Hines Ward ranked higher on your draft board? With Ward you basically knew what you were getting, but with Bowe there was probably a little less certainty. You probably thought he had more upside, but also that he had a little more risk. Sometimes you have a great read on a prospect. Your degree of certainty is high. Other times you're not so sure. You can see scenarios where he thrives and scenarios where he flops. That's how I feel about Wells. He has a lot of upside, but I also think there's considerable risk of him disappointing due to injuries or outright busting. I think the guys ranked ahead of him have comparable upside with less risk. That doesn't mean I don't think Wells can become a star. It just means I'd probably rather place my bets elsewhere.

 
With the exception of Moreno our rankings are very similar at this time.

I think Beanie has the most upside in this class but between his injury risk and him being (allegedly) soft I prefer all of the WR's to him.

I usually rank my RB's before WR's, but not this year; there are simply no elite prospects. There's a very good chance my top 5 doesn't have a RB in it (PPR) when all is said and done, depends where everyone goes but it is certainly a possibility.

 
offdee said:
Uruk-Hai said:
EBF said:
Doctor Detroit said:
I would compare Darrius Heyward-Bey to Joey Galloway and not Andre Johnson although he is taller than Galloway and has the potential to have a frame like Johnson's. But the pure speed and the acceleration reminds me of Joey Galloway and I hope they don't make him put on 15 pounds. He is one of those few guys that you watch in college who when he gets into the secondary you're sure he's gone and you're sure he can do it on the next level. He's gonna be a pretty good weapon for someone right away.
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He's a nice prospect. Galloway makes some sense, but DHB is bigger. This is really a nice group of wideouts coming out this year. The odds say 1-2 of these guys will bust, but I haven't been this enamored of a WR group since the Fitz/Roy/Reggie/Evans class. Crabtree, Maclin, Harvin, and DHB are all players that I'd feel comfortable using a first round rookie pick on in PPR. And then you have some nice prospects in the second tier who could be players.
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I think DHB will be much better suited to the pro game than college. Of course, the MD QB play has been horrific that last few years so his numbers have been severely depressed. He's got just about everything you want - good burst, can get off the line, world-class top end speed, and good hands. He can catch the ball in traffic & can leap to get the ball (something he unfortuately had to do more than he should). My only concern with him may be his attitude. I don't want to overstate this because there's zero documented evidence that he's a bad guy or teammate. But I've seen him look very frustrated sometimes on the field (not that I blame him) & some of his quotes after bad games have been a little iffy. But again, there's no evidence of buttholeishness & my vague worry on this may not mean anything - could be he's just a great competitor.
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How does DHB compare to Chad Jackson (Florida/Patriots)? For some reason I can't shake that he's going to be Chad Jackson v2.0....passes the eye test, great measurables, looks to have everything you want in a WR, etc. but just doesn't produce on the next level.
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For one thing, Jackson was dumb as a bag of rocks. It might not be polite to put it so bluntly, but I do think his mental shortcomings prevented him from maximizing his ability. I also think he was more of an underachiever than DHB. For all of his combine measurables, he never really dominated in college. DHB doesn't have great stats either, but I think in his case it's largely because the coaching staff just doesn't know how to use him (see Eddie Royal at Virginia Tech last year).I can see why you'd make the comparison and I do think there's some risk of DHB disappointing, but I'm definitely higher on him than I was on Jackson. I can't necessarily articulate why. I just think he's a better looking prospect.
 
Unlike prior years, I think there will be a huge amount of trading in rookie drafts (dynasty and keeper) among the top half dozen (or so) picks.

Some people will have to have Beanie...

...or Crabtree...

...or Moreno...

...or Macklin...

...but there's no clear-cut consensus between them. At least, not right now.

 
Chachi said:
Team Legacy said:
McCoy announced he was staying in school.
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This is well known and the OP commented on it in the very first post and I happen to agree with his comments, Money talks and yaknowwhat walks.
EBF said:
- LeSean McCoy, CJ Spiller, and Sam Bradford are returning to school. That's what they say, but until it's official I'm assuming that they'll be in the draft. It's hard to turn down millions of dollars when the clock is ticking on your body. Bradford will probably be back in school, but I expect Spiller and McCoy to bail.
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Texas radio said today McCoy will explore his options to try and figure out where he might be selected in the draft. Although he says he has plans to return for his senior season, I think he's going to see where he might land if he comes out early. If it's the first round, I think he's gonna leave. Spiller I would guess will do the same and McCoy I have no idea.
 
EBF said:
offdee said:
Uruk-Hai said:
EBF said:
Doctor Detroit said:
I would compare Darrius Heyward-Bey to Joey Galloway and not Andre Johnson although he is taller than Galloway and has the potential to have a frame like Johnson's. But the pure speed and the acceleration reminds me of Joey Galloway and I hope they don't make him put on 15 pounds. He is one of those few guys that you watch in college who when he gets into the secondary you're sure he's gone and you're sure he can do it on the next level. He's gonna be a pretty good weapon for someone right away.
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He's a nice prospect. Galloway makes some sense, but DHB is bigger. This is really a nice group of wideouts coming out this year. The odds say 1-2 of these guys will bust, but I haven't been this enamored of a WR group since the Fitz/Roy/Reggie/Evans class. Crabtree, Maclin, Harvin, and DHB are all players that I'd feel comfortable using a first round rookie pick on in PPR. And then you have some nice prospects in the second tier who could be players.
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I think DHB will be much better suited to the pro game than college. Of course, the MD QB play has been horrific that last few years so his numbers have been severely depressed. He's got just about everything you want - good burst, can get off the line, world-class top end speed, and good hands. He can catch the ball in traffic & can leap to get the ball (something he unfortuately had to do more than he should). My only concern with him may be his attitude. I don't want to overstate this because there's zero documented evidence that he's a bad guy or teammate. But I've seen him look very frustrated sometimes on the field (not that I blame him) & some of his quotes after bad games have been a little iffy. But again, there's no evidence of buttholeishness & my vague worry on this may not mean anything - could be he's just a great competitor.
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How does DHB compare to Chad Jackson (Florida/Patriots)? For some reason I can't shake that he's going to be Chad Jackson v2.0....passes the eye test, great measurables, looks to have everything you want in a WR, etc. but just doesn't produce on the next level.
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For one thing, Jackson was dumb as a bag of rocks. It might not be polite to put it so bluntly, but I do think his mental shortcomings prevented him from maximizing his ability. I also think he was more of an underachiever than DHB. For all of his combine measurables, he never really dominated in college. DHB doesn't have great stats either, but I think in his case it's largely because the coaching staff just doesn't know how to use him (see Eddie Royal at Virginia Tech last year).I can see why you'd make the comparison and I do think there's some risk of DHB disappointing, but I'm definitely higher on him than I was on Jackson. I can't necessarily articulate why. I just think he's a better looking prospect.
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Funk, it's not coaching that's held him back - it's QB play (well, I guess you can blame that on coaching also but I mean play-calling). They do a lot to get him the ball (see: DHB's production on reverses).As for intelligence, I've heard him interviewed & he sounds like a smart guy. But smart guys can bust as easily as dumb ones. Again, I don't want to label him as a problem child because I really don't have evidence for that. I'm just looking for flaws & his frustration on the field is what I've come up with so far - and that could well be a positive once he's playing with athletic peers.
 
McCoy: 'I'm not going anywhere'By Kevin GormanTRIBUNE-REVIEWWednesday, November 26, 2008

Trying to squash speculation that the 101st Backyard Brawl will be his last game at Heinz Field in a Pitt uniform, sophomore tailback LeSean McCoy said he "definitely" plans to return for his junior season next fall.McCoy on Tuesday dismissed discussion that he will petition for early entry to the NFL Draft after only two seasons of college football, following a path pioneered by former Pitt All-America receiver Larry Fitzgerald."Everybody keeps trying to push that, my last game at Heinz Field," McCoy said. "I'm not going anywhere. There's a lot of stuff I've got to prove. I don't think I did enough at this university. There's a lot left to achieve here."McCoy, 20, is eligible to declare hardship for the NFL Draft because he spent a year-and-a-half at Milford Academy, a prep school in New Berlin, N.Y., and is three years removed from the graduation of his class at Harrisburg's Bishop McDevitt High School. Yet McCoy claims he isn't ready to make playing football a full-time profession."When you look at the pros, you've got to look at guys like Ray Lewis and (Brian) Urlacher. That's what they do. That's their job. When you come out in college, you just play ball and have fun," McCoy said. "There's a lot I have to do on my end to get better. Coach (Dave) Wannstedt will let me know when it's time. And I feel myself that I'm not ready yet."Wannstedt said he had "no reaction" to McCoy's assertion he will return and said that they will talk about it at the "appropriate time," presumably after the Panthers' bowl game. Wannstedt doesn't want it to become a distraction for Pitt (7-3, 3-2), which plays West Virginia (7-3, 4-1) at noon Friday."The way LeSean responded was the way he should have responded," Wannstedt said. "He has been nothing but outstanding in everything he has said and done. My focus, as is LeSean's, is only on West Virginia."The Backyard Brawl showcased McCoy on a national stage, as he rushed for 148 yards on 38 carries in Pitt's 13-9 victory at West Virginia last year. He had five consecutive 100-yard games this season, including 169 yards in a nationally televised quadruple-overtime victory at Notre Dame, but hasn't rushed for 100 or more yards in Pitt's past two games.McCoy has 1,125 rushing yards and 18 touchdowns on 227 carries this season, and ranks second among active NCAA rushers at 111.5 yards per game and seventh among Pitt rushers with 2,453 career yards.Yet the 5-foot-11, 210-pound McCoy insisted that he's not ready to make the jump to pro football, adding that he wants to become bigger and stronger and would like to first attempt to accomplish some individual achievements.If he returns, Pitt would likely be highly ranked and considered a favorite to win the Big East Conference and its BCS berth, and McCoy would be considered a candidate for All-America honors and the Heisman Trophy."That would be cool," McCoy said. "When you're younger, you talk about those things and, playing video games, you can see yourself one day winning this award, but definitely a BCS game and Big East championship."You talk to a lot of guys who had a chance to go to the pros and came back (to college), a lot of their reasons are how good their team will be the next year. I look at the team next year, and we'll be stacked. All I do is go to school and practice and hang out with my friends. Most of my friends are on this team. This is fun. That's the real world, once you get into the league."Wannstedt spent 15 years as an NFL coach and can rely on his vast network of associates to determine whether it's in McCoy's best interest to go pro or return and improve his stock. Five running backs were selected in the NFL first round last April, including Rashard Mendenhall by the Steelers.Pittsburgh-based sports agent Ralph Cindrich is not permitted to talk about underclassmen, but played with Wannstedt at Pitt in the early 1970s and believes that the Panthers coach has the best interest of his players at heart."What I know of Dave Wannstedt is he's a guy who will use every contact he has -- and he has one on every team -- and will do what's right for the player," said Cindrich, exclusive consultant to DeBartolo Sports and Entertainment. "He's going to tell him to declare if he's going to go in the first round. A guy can place his confidence in Wannstedt."NFL draft analyst Todd McShay, of ESPN's Scouts, Inc., believes McCoy can develop with another season but said most running backs leave early for fear of taking too much wear and tear. McShay said McCoy is viewed as a versatile weapon with impressive cutting ability and a fluid style."I would be surprised if he didn't go in the first round," McShay said. "I don't think he's a top 10 or 15 pick, but I expect him to get a late first- or second-round grade back from the NFL advisory committee."McShay warned that McCoy might be speaking out of frustration following the 28-21 loss to Cincinnati that cost the Panthers a chance to win the Big East title and a BCS bowl berth, and out of disappointment for a sophomore season that has been "inconsistent.""Is he willing to forgo a chance to make a run at the Heisman and be an absolute star at Pitt?" McShay said. "I expected more, and I'm sure he did, too. The longer you are away from the loss and the more you hear from agents and advisors, the easier it is to leave. As for Pitt, you want him back, but it doesn't hurt recruiting to have an NFL first-round draft pick."McCoy left open the possibility that things could change if he receives feedback telling him that he's a first-round lock, but said even word from Wannstedt or others in the know won't determine his decision."Only time will tell," McCoy said. "For right now, I'm in school and I'm looking to stay here. I'm not really pushing going anywhere. The thing is, they say that or he says that, but I'm the one that has to do it. I'm the one that has to take the hits. I'm a young kid." Kevin Gorman can be reached at kgorman@tribweb.com or 412-320-7812.
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FUBAR said:
Cookiemonster said:
FUBAR said:
Harrell isn't a good prospect.
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What don't you like about Harrell? He's got a live arm, and is laser accurate. I like what I've seen, but if you pressure him a lot, he does fold a little. What QB doesn't when getting the kind of pressure he was under last game?
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System mostly, it doesn't translate to the NFL. He'll need more time to acclimate to the NFL than most owners are willing to give a top 10 pick (FF). He's accurate with time, but will he have that time in the NFL? He isn't mobile. His prospects for eventual success are ok, but there's no way I take him #6. Top of the 2nd maybe. No chance would I take him above Nate Davis (ok, maybe if he heads to Arizona)
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Rivals.com:1 Colt McCoy QB Texas 6-3/210 Tuscola, TX He has thrown 30 TD passes and leads his team in rushing. 2 Sam Bradford QB Oklahoma 6-4/218 Oklahoma City, OK He has 19 TD passes and one INT in his last five games. 3 Tim Tebow QB Florida 6-3/240 Jacksonville, FL He has accounted for 16 TDs without an INT in his last four games. 4 Graham Harrell QB Texas Tech 6-3/205 Ennis, TX He looked overmatched in a head-to-head battle with Sam Bradford. 5 Chase Daniel QB Missouri 6-0/225 Southlake, TX 6 Pat White QB West Virginia 6-2/185 Daphne, AL He set the NCAA record for career rushing yards by a QB last week. 7 Zac Robinson QB OK State 6-3/210 Littleton, CO 8 Mark Sanchez QB USC 6-3/225 Mission Viejo, CA 9 Matthew Stafford QB Georgia 6-3/237 Dallas, TX 9 10 Nate Davis QB Ball State 6-2/217 Bellaire, OH
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twocents
 
BigTex said:
FUBAR said:
Cookiemonster said:
FUBAR said:
Harrell isn't a good prospect.
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What don't you like about Harrell? He's got a live arm, and is laser accurate. I like what I've seen, but if you pressure him a lot, he does fold a little. What QB doesn't when getting the kind of pressure he was under last game?
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System mostly, it doesn't translate to the NFL. He'll need more time to acclimate to the NFL than most owners are willing to give a top 10 pick (FF). He's accurate with time, but will he have that time in the NFL? He isn't mobile. His prospects for eventual success are ok, but there's no way I take him #6. Top of the 2nd maybe. No chance would I take him above Nate Davis (ok, maybe if he heads to Arizona)
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Rivals.com:1 Colt McCoy QB Texas 6-3/210 Tuscola, TX He has thrown 30 TD passes and leads his team in rushing. 2 Sam Bradford QB Oklahoma 6-4/218 Oklahoma City, OK He has 19 TD passes and one INT in his last five games. 3 Tim Tebow QB Florida 6-3/240 Jacksonville, FL He has accounted for 16 TDs without an INT in his last four games. 4 Graham Harrell QB Texas Tech 6-3/205 Ennis, TX He looked overmatched in a head-to-head battle with Sam Bradford. 5 Chase Daniel QB Missouri 6-0/225 Southlake, TX 6 Pat White QB West Virginia 6-2/185 Daphne, AL He set the NCAA record for career rushing yards by a QB last week. 7 Zac Robinson QB OK State 6-3/210 Littleton, CO 8 Mark Sanchez QB USC 6-3/225 Mission Viejo, CA 9 Matthew Stafford QB Georgia 6-3/237 Dallas, TX 9 10 Nate Davis QB Ball State 6-2/217 Bellaire, OH
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twocents
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Is that a ranking of NFL prospects or current production?Chase being #5 tells me it's more based on how they're currently doing rather than a prediction on their success.
 
FUBAR said:
BigTex said:
FUBAR said:
Cookiemonster said:
FUBAR said:
Harrell isn't a good prospect.
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What don't you like about Harrell? He's got a live arm, and is laser accurate. I like what I've seen, but if you pressure him a lot, he does fold a little. What QB doesn't when getting the kind of pressure he was under last game?
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System mostly, it doesn't translate to the NFL. He'll need more time to acclimate to the NFL than most owners are willing to give a top 10 pick (FF). He's accurate with time, but will he have that time in the NFL? He isn't mobile. His prospects for eventual success are ok, but there's no way I take him #6. Top of the 2nd maybe. No chance would I take him above Nate Davis (ok, maybe if he heads to Arizona)
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Rivals.com:1 Colt McCoy QB Texas 6-3/210 Tuscola, TX He has thrown 30 TD passes and leads his team in rushing. 2 Sam Bradford QB Oklahoma 6-4/218 Oklahoma City, OK He has 19 TD passes and one INT in his last five games. 3 Tim Tebow QB Florida 6-3/240 Jacksonville, FL He has accounted for 16 TDs without an INT in his last four games. 4 Graham Harrell QB Texas Tech 6-3/205 Ennis, TX He looked overmatched in a head-to-head battle with Sam Bradford. 5 Chase Daniel QB Missouri 6-0/225 Southlake, TX 6 Pat White QB West Virginia 6-2/185 Daphne, AL He set the NCAA record for career rushing yards by a QB last week. 7 Zac Robinson QB OK State 6-3/210 Littleton, CO 8 Mark Sanchez QB USC 6-3/225 Mission Viejo, CA 9 Matthew Stafford QB Georgia 6-3/237 Dallas, TX 9 10 Nate Davis QB Ball State 6-2/217 Bellaire, OH
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twocents
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Is that a ranking of NFL prospects or current production?Chase being #5 tells me it's more based on how they're currently doing rather than a prediction on their success.
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It's Rivals. Not bad for ranking HS recruits. Worthless for rankning NFL prospects.
 
moderated said:
EBF said:
BigTex said:
McCoy: 'I'm not going anywhere'
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Actions > Words
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:( underclassman always try to claim they are staying in school and once the seasons over and the draft process starts it's a different story.

I give him a 2% chance of staying as long as he finishes the season healthy. A major injury could change that, but that's about it.
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UT’s McCoy will review his NFL draft potential - Unless a 1st, 2nd round pick, QB to return to Texas

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6136056.htmlI don't see anyway that he wouldn't be a 1st or 2nd round pick.

 
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Kleck said:
moderated said:
EBF said:
BigTex said:
McCoy: 'I'm not going anywhere'
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Actions > Words
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:thumbdown: underclassman always try to claim they are staying in school and once the seasons over and the draft process starts it's a different story.

I give him a 2% chance of staying as long as he finishes the season healthy. A major injury could change that, but that's about it.
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UT’s McCoy will review his NFL draft potential - Unless a 1st, 2nd round pick, QB to return to Texas

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6136056.htmlI don't see anyway that he wouldn't be a 1st or 2nd round pick.
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Looks like we need to figure out which McCoy we're discussing. Anyone have nicknames that can help us keep them straight?
 
Kleck said:
moderated said:
EBF said:
BigTex said:
McCoy: 'I'm not going anywhere'
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Actions > Words
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:lmao: underclassman always try to claim they are staying in school and once the seasons over and the draft process starts it's a different story.

I give him a 2% chance of staying as long as he finishes the season healthy. A major injury could change that, but that's about it.
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UT’s McCoy will review his NFL draft potential - Unless a 1st, 2nd round pick, QB to return to Texas

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6136056.htmlI don't see anyway that he wouldn't be a 1st or 2nd round pick.
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LeSean McCoy
 
I dont think anyone is questioning whether Colt McCoy is going to stay. He's a LOCK to stay, and really doesn't need to be talked about in this thread.

When people are talking about McCoy leaving for the draft, they are talking about LeSean McCoy from Pitt. Just a heads up for everyone.

 
awesomeness said:
Doctor Detroit said:
awesomeness said:
I dont think anyone is questioning whether Colt McCoy is going to stay. He's a LOCK to stay, and really doesn't need to be talked about in this thread.

When people are talking about McCoy leaving for the draft, they are talking about LeSean McCoy from Pitt. Just a heads up for everyone.
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Colt is not a lock to stay, he said so himself.
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You think he's going to get a first or 2nd round grade?
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I don't but I'm not a scout or an NFL GM. Who knows. :shrug:
 
FUBAR said:
Cookiemonster said:
FUBAR said:
Harrell isn't a good prospect.
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What don't you like about Harrell? He's got a live arm, and is laser accurate. I like what I've seen, but if you pressure him a lot, he does fold a little. What QB doesn't when getting the kind of pressure he was under last game?
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System mostly, it doesn't translate to the NFL. He'll need more time to acclimate to the NFL than most owners are willing to give a top 10 pick (FF). He's accurate with time, but will he have that time in the NFL? He isn't mobile. His prospects for eventual success are ok, but there's no way I take him #6. Top of the 2nd maybe. No chance would I take him above Nate Davis (ok, maybe if he heads to Arizona)
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Harrell is extremely intelligent and very accurate and can make a lot of throws. He's not a first round pick but he is a guy that will play somewhere and probably grow into a nice back-up qb who could surprise if given a chance.
 
1. moreno

2. maclin

3. crabtree

4. stafford

5. wells

6. harvin

7. mccoy

thats how i would draft them... i drafted matt ryan at 1.5, and would draft stafford around the same... some people have wells ranked above moreno, but they are making a mistake...

the only thing i question about moreno is his long speed. if he runs a good 40, i think hes the #1 pick.

wells reminds me of a j lewis type... might be productive, but not the type of runner that i like... i dont really like big bowling ball types, but he more than likely will be a good NFL running back. he produced against LSU in the national champ game last year, and looked well, but im pretty sure unless i was starving at RB i would draft those 4 guys ahead of him. expecally in a PPR league.

even though i was right about ryan, so far iv been wrong about mendenhall. but i drafted mendenhall to help me in year 2, so we will see what he does next year... if forte would have fell to 1.5 where i drafted ryan i would have went with forte there, but ryan reminded me alot of that guy called manning. so i didnt take the chance of drafting CJ >.< . either way now my two QB's are big ben and matty ice, so im happy.

 
moderated said:
Kleck said:
moderated said:
EBF said:
BigTex said:
McCoy: 'I'm not going anywhere'
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Actions > Words
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:( underclassman always try to claim they are staying in school and once the seasons over and the draft process starts it's a different story.

I give him a 2% chance of staying as long as he finishes the season healthy. A major injury could change that, but that's about it.
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UT’s McCoy will review his NFL draft potential - Unless a 1st, 2nd round pick, QB to return to Texas

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6136056.htmlI don't see anyway that he wouldn't be a 1st or 2nd round pick.
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LeSean McCoy
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oh :bag:
 
twr said:
1. moreno2. maclin3. crabtree4. stafford5. wells6. harvin7. mccoythats how i would draft them...
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The thing that stands out to me this year is how big the first tier is. This is not like the ADP/Calvin/Lynch class where you had three rock solid prospects and a huge dropoff at the 1.04. This class goes 8-10 deep in obvious potential impact players. I think we could see a repeat of the 2008 class where the lesser-hyped players actually produce as well or better than the top picks. The gap between Moreno --> Spiller and Crabtree --> Harvin isn't necessarily huge. So if you're in a PPR league and you have one of the top 2-3 picks, you might want to see what kind of package you can get to trade down. That said, I'd hold off before making that decision since we don't know which underclassmen will declare. The RB depth could take a massive hit if Spiller, Greene, and McCoy return to school (but I'll be surprised if 2-3 of them aren't in the draft).
 
IN PPR leagues, I really like Harvin. He has sick athletic ability. In HS, he scored 7 TD's in one game...in every way you can. (Rushing, receiving, throwing, punt and KR, and I think even one on defense!)

He could very easily become the WR version of Reggie Bush....technically a WR but used in a thousand different ways. Not even the most conservative NFL coach could ignore the flexibility and athleticism he could bring to the table.

 
awesomeness said:
Doctor Detroit said:
awesomeness said:
I dont think anyone is questioning whether Colt McCoy is going to stay. He's a LOCK to stay, and really doesn't need to be talked about in this thread.

When people are talking about McCoy leaving for the draft, they are talking about LeSean McCoy from Pitt. Just a heads up for everyone.
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Colt is not a lock to stay, he said so himself.
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You think he's going to get a first or 2nd round grade?
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I'm not real high on him as an NFL Prospect, but I could see a team taking a chance with him on day 1. Accurate, smart and a good leader. Average height/weight. Below average arm strength.

Reminds me of Pennington.

 
renesauz said:
IN PPR leagues, I really like Harvin. He has sick athletic ability. In HS, he scored 7 TD's in one game...in every way you can. (Rushing, receiving, throwing, punt and KR, and I think even one on defense!)He could very easily become the WR version of Reggie Bush....technically a WR but used in a thousand different ways. Not even the most conservative NFL coach could ignore the flexibility and athleticism he could bring to the table.
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As an FSU fan, i'm ready for Harvin to leave UF. ;)
 
renesauz said:
IN PPR leagues, I really like Harvin. He has sick athletic ability. In HS, he scored 7 TD's in one game...in every way you can. (Rushing, receiving, throwing, punt and KR, and I think even one on defense!)He could very easily become the WR version of Reggie Bush....technically a WR but used in a thousand different ways. Not even the most conservative NFL coach could ignore the flexibility and athleticism he could bring to the table.
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DING DING DING. he is sick.... im a UGA fan... and really really really hate playing the gators just because of him... one of the fastest kids iv seen... hes sick. in my dynasty league im going to lobby hard to try and get a middle pick.... our league accounts for punt return yards... which makes leon washington the #1 running back... lol get that. this kid will be sick in this league.its looking like i will have a 2-4 pick... so im hoping on the #2 choice. that lets me choose from moreno, maclin, and crabtree.
 
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Klecker said:
Kleck said:
moderated said:
EBF said:
BigTex said:
McCoy: 'I'm not going anywhere'
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Actions > Words
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:lmao: underclassman always try to claim they are staying in school and once the seasons over and the draft process starts it's a different story.

I give him a 2% chance of staying as long as he finishes the season healthy. A major injury could change that, but that's about it.
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UT’s McCoy will review his NFL draft potential - Unless a 1st, 2nd round pick, QB to return to Texas

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6136056.htmlI don't see anyway that he wouldn't be a 1st or 2nd round pick.
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Looks like we need to figure out which McCoy we're discussing. Anyone have nicknames that can help us keep them straight?
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:lmao:
McCoy has 1,125 rushing yards and 18 touchdowns on 227 carries this season, and ranks second among active NCAA rushers at 111.5 yards per game and seventh among Pitt rushers with 2,453 career yards.

Yet the 5-foot-11, 210-pound McCoy insisted that he's not ready to make the jump to pro football, adding that he wants to become bigger and stronger and would like to first attempt to accomplish some individual achievements.
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LOL
 
7. WR Darrius Heyward-Bey *, MarylandPositives: Has possibly the best deep speed in this class. Big frame. Athletic. Dangerous runner before and after the catch. Has a huge ceiling and could become a superstar in the NFL.Negatives: A little bit of an enigma. Production hasn't matched his talent.Overall: "DHB" has Pro Bowl potential, but there are other wideouts in this class who offer the same potential with seemingly less risk. He's been the victim of a weak college system that hasn't fully exploited his talents, which makes him harder to evaluate than most of the other receivers in this class.NFL Comparison: Andre Johnson
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Much of what you say here is exactly why this guy is the #1 or #2 (at worst) rated WR in this class. College production is just one part of being an elite NFL player, but not the most significant for a WR. Some players play with horrible QBs and/or weak systems (for example, DHB) while others enjoy very favorable systems (for example, Crabtree) to skew the overall production. But for what DHB has to work with, I'd say his production is certainly good enough. But it comes back to talent and NFL coaches/coordinators will utilize this guy and get the most out of him, unlike a middle of the road college program.IMO, Harvin isn't in the conversation with DHB, Maclin, and Crabtree as far as an NFL WR prospect, he's a little too raw as a WR and doesn't have a defined position.
 
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kremenull said:
7. WR Darrius Heyward-Bey *, MarylandPositives: Has possibly the best deep speed in this class. Big frame. Athletic. Dangerous runner before and after the catch. Has a huge ceiling and could become a superstar in the NFL.Negatives: A little bit of an enigma. Production hasn't matched his talent.Overall: "DHB" has Pro Bowl potential, but there are other wideouts in this class who offer the same potential with seemingly less risk. He's been the victim of a weak college system that hasn't fully exploited his talents, which makes him harder to evaluate than most of the other receivers in this class.NFL Comparison: Andre Johnson
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Much of what you say here is exactly why this guy is the #1 or #2 (at worst) rated WR in this class. College production is just one part of being an elite NFL player, but not the most significant for a WR. Some players play with horrible QBs and/or weak systems (for example, DHB) while others enjoy very favorable systems (for example, Crabtree) to skew the overall production. But for what DHB has to work with, I'd say his production is certainly good enough. But it comes back to talent and NFL coaches/coordinators will utilize this guy and get the most out of him, unlike a middle of the road college program.
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I agree with this and I like DHB. He just has the misfortune of entering the league with three other WRs that I like a lot (Crabtree, Maclin, and Harvin). Any one of these four would've been the WR1 on my rookie board if they had come out with the 2008 class. It's just a really loaded draft at WR.
 
If Spiller can put on 10 pounds, I think he has the potential to be a big time player. Especially after seeing Chris Johnson and Steve Slaton have success this year. I question whether or not a team will give him 15 carries a game in the NFL, but Johnson and Slaton have been so that should help his case.

Personally i like him more than Harvin. He does everything Harvin does but is more electric, imo. I really hope he comes out this year.

 
awesomeness said:
If Spiller can put on 10 pounds, I think he has the potential to be a big time player. Especially after seeing Chris Johnson and Steve Slaton have success this year. I question whether or not a team will give him 15 carries a game in the NFL, but Johnson and Slaton have been so that should help his case.
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Definitely possible. Moreno, Wells, and Greene are nice prospects, but they don't make "wow" type plays like Spiller and McCoy. The latter two are the most dynamic runners in this class. Spiller is easily the fastest and most explosive. The big question mark that you touched on is usage. These guys need to go to teams that will give them an opportunity to thrive. One thing Slaton, CJ, and Forte all have in common is the fact that they went to teams with a severe shortage of RB talent. That's part of the reason why they've been able to have instant success. On the flipside you have a guy like Felix Jones. He made a lot of standout plays when given opportunities, but he was never startable in FF leagues because MB3 was hogging all the touches. If a team drafts Spiller strictly as a change of pace and return man, he could suffer the same fate.He's definitely a "plus" athlete though. If he lands in a nice spot on draft day, he could move several spots up my board. He's actually the only RB on this list who's already on one of my dynasty teams. I traded McNabb straight up to get him a few weeks back, so I'm definitely hoping he declares for the draft and makes an immediate impact next season.
 
As for Harvin vs. Spiller, that's an apples vs. oranges situation. Harvin is a WR and Spiller is a RB. I don't see a huge overlap aside from the fact that they're both hyper-athletic speedster types. It's like comparing Santana Moss and Chris Johnson. They're both good players, but they're two entirely different creatures.

 
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EBF said:
4. RB Shonn Greene *, Iowa

Positives: Great frame. Built low and strong. Runs on a swivel with fluid hips and quick feet for a big man. Very productive.

Negatives: Lacks elite speed and explosiveness. Limited involvement in the passing game.

Overall: Greene doesn't have the flashy upside of some of the other backs in this draft, but he's a low risk prospect whose game should translate very well to the NFL level. I look for him to become a 300+ carry back at the next level and an ideal RB2 for FF teams.

NFL Comparison: Michael Turner, Rudi Johnson

Highlights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KaN3ARrfiU
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First, excellent list EBF. Since I'm a Hawkeye homer I thought I would chime in on Greene. You are correct in that he won't catch a lot of passes. But I think he's going to surprise some people at the NFL Combine with his speed. In my opinion he will end up being closer to Michael Turner rather than Rudi Johnson. As a freshman he was one of the two fastest players on the team. And this season, after he got back into shape, he wasn't caught from behind. I'm really excited to see how he does in the Bowl game.
 
Mooks77 said:
EBF said:
4. RB Shonn Greene *, Iowa

Positives: Great frame. Built low and strong. Runs on a swivel with fluid hips and quick feet for a big man. Very productive.

Negatives: Lacks elite speed and explosiveness. Limited involvement in the passing game.

Overall: Greene doesn't have the flashy upside of some of the other backs in this draft, but he's a low risk prospect whose game should translate very well to the NFL level. I look for him to become a 300+ carry back at the next level and an ideal RB2 for FF teams.

NFL Comparison: Michael Turner, Rudi Johnson

Highlights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KaN3ARrfiU
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First, excellent list EBF. Since I'm a Hawkeye homer I thought I would chime in on Greene. You are correct in that he won't catch a lot of passes. But I think he's going to surprise some people at the NFL Combine with his speed. In my opinion he will end up being closer to Michael Turner rather than Rudi Johnson. As a freshman he was one of the two fastest players on the team. And this season, after he got back into shape, he wasn't caught from behind. I'm really excited to see how he does in the Bowl game.
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Thanks for the info on Greene. A lot of people have been making the Turner comparison. Turner doesn't have great timed speed and he doesn't look very fast on the field, but he's an efficient runner and he makes a surprisingly high number of big plays. Greene could definitely be that type of player in the NFL. I think his game translates very well to the next level and I see his value falling somewhere on the gradient between Ladell Betts and Turner. He's definitely rocketing up the draft boards this season. If he's as fast as you say he is, he could be a first round pick.

 
EBF said:
Mooks77 said:
EBF said:
4. RB Shonn Greene *, Iowa

Positives: Great frame. Built low and strong. Runs on a swivel with fluid hips and quick feet for a big man. Very productive.

Negatives: Lacks elite speed and explosiveness. Limited involvement in the passing game.

Overall: Greene doesn't have the flashy upside of some of the other backs in this draft, but he's a low risk prospect whose game should translate very well to the NFL level. I look for him to become a 300+ carry back at the next level and an ideal RB2 for FF teams.

NFL Comparison: Michael Turner, Rudi Johnson

Highlights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KaN3ARrfiU
Click to expand...
First, excellent list EBF. Since I'm a Hawkeye homer I thought I would chime in on Greene. You are correct in that he won't catch a lot of passes. But I think he's going to surprise some people at the NFL Combine with his speed. In my opinion he will end up being closer to Michael Turner rather than Rudi Johnson. As a freshman he was one of the two fastest players on the team. And this season, after he got back into shape, he wasn't caught from behind. I'm really excited to see how he does in the Bowl game.
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Thanks for the info on Greene. A lot of people have been making the Turner comparison. Turner doesn't have great timed speed and he doesn't look very fast on the field, but he's an efficient runner and he makes a surprisingly high number of big plays. Greene could definitely be that type of player in the NFL. I think his game translates very well to the next level and I see his value falling somewhere on the gradient between Ladell Betts and Turner. He's definitely rocketing up the draft boards this season. If he's as fast as you say he is, he could be a first round pick.
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james davis and spiller kind of remind me of the ronnie brown and caddy situation. i think both are pretty good backs with differnt running styles, if all the players declare that are suppost to... this could be another rookie draft that has alot of talent, like the 2008 one.
 
twr said:
EBF said:
Mooks77 said:
EBF said:
4. RB Shonn Greene *, Iowa

Positives: Great frame. Built low and strong. Runs on a swivel with fluid hips and quick feet for a big man. Very productive.

Negatives: Lacks elite speed and explosiveness. Limited involvement in the passing game.

Overall: Greene doesn't have the flashy upside of some of the other backs in this draft, but he's a low risk prospect whose game should translate very well to the NFL level. I look for him to become a 300+ carry back at the next level and an ideal RB2 for FF teams.

NFL Comparison: Michael Turner, Rudi Johnson

Highlights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KaN3ARrfiU
Click to expand...
First, excellent list EBF. Since I'm a Hawkeye homer I thought I would chime in on Greene. You are correct in that he won't catch a lot of passes. But I think he's going to surprise some people at the NFL Combine with his speed. In my opinion he will end up being closer to Michael Turner rather than Rudi Johnson. As a freshman he was one of the two fastest players on the team. And this season, after he got back into shape, he wasn't caught from behind. I'm really excited to see how he does in the Bowl game.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info on Greene. A lot of people have been making the Turner comparison. Turner doesn't have great timed speed and he doesn't look very fast on the field, but he's an efficient runner and he makes a surprisingly high number of big plays. Greene could definitely be that type of player in the NFL. I think his game translates very well to the next level and I see his value falling somewhere on the gradient between Ladell Betts and Turner. He's definitely rocketing up the draft boards this season. If he's as fast as you say he is, he could be a first round pick.
Click to expand...
james davis and spiller kind of remind me of the ronnie brown and caddy situation. i think both are pretty good backs with differnt running styles, if all the players declare that are suppost to... this could be another rookie draft that has alot of talent, like the 2008 one.
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I've always thought James Davis is a complete pig. Don't see him ever doing anything at the NFL level.
 
My quick list...

I think the top tier is the 3 RBs and Crabtree...

1. Moreno

2. Crabtree

3. McCoy (appears I am higher on him than most)

4. Wells

5. Maclin

6. Howard-Bey

7. Greene

8. Bradford

9. Murray

10. Spiller

11. Harvin

12. Dillard

 
First off, thanks to all the guys who put so much work into informing the rest of us. Clearly, you are informed and bring information that is hard to get anywhere else. I have picks 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, and 1.6 in my dynasty league's draft. (The result of a 2 year rebuilding project)...so this draft is critical for me. I have pitiful RBs and need to come out of this draft with a minimum of two top level prospects. Given that there are still so many unkowns, I understand that it may be difficult to answer this question; What are the chances that this RB class can come close to the '08 class, which has been excellent?

Does anyone think the potential for a rookie salary cap after the next CBA will push any and all top prospects to declare?

 
Ack88 said:
First off, thanks to all the guys who put so much work into informing the rest of us. Clearly, you are informed and bring information that is hard to get anywhere else. I have picks 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, and 1.6 in my dynasty league's draft. (The result of a 2 year rebuilding project)...so this draft is critical for me. I have pitiful RBs and need to come out of this draft with a minimum of two top level prospects. Given that there are still so many unkowns, I understand that it may be difficult to answer this question; What are the chances that this RB class can come close to the '08 class, which has been excellent?

Does anyone think the potential for a rookie salary cap after the next CBA will push any and all top prospects to declare?
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Not difficult at all, the chances are as close to zero as they can be without actually being zero.
 
Ack88 said:
First off, thanks to all the guys who put so much work into informing the rest of us. Clearly, you are informed and bring information that is hard to get anywhere else. I have picks 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, and 1.6 in my dynasty league's draft. (The result of a 2 year rebuilding project)...so this draft is critical for me. I have pitiful RBs and need to come out of this draft with a minimum of two top level prospects. Given that there are still so many unkowns, I understand that it may be difficult to answer this question; What are the chances that this RB class can come close to the '08 class, which has been excellent?
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Well if you draft the best available RB will all four of your picks then the odds say you'll probably get a couple solid players. There could be 4-5 RBs picked in the first round this year, so I think it's a pretty strong group.
Does anyone think the potential for a rookie salary cap after the next CBA will push any and all top prospects to declare?
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There's been some speculation on this. I don't know how huge the impact will be since I think most of the top underclassmen will leave either way. Not many players pass up first day money. Just look at last year's class.
 
Wu-banger said:
My quick list... I think the top tier is the 3 RBs and Crabtree...1. Moreno2. Crabtree3. McCoy (appears I am higher on him than most)4. Wells5. Maclin6. Howard-Bey7. Greene8. Bradford9. Murray10. Spiller11. Harvin12. Dillard
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You're not higher on McCoy than I am. He's my #1 RB in this class.I have a big three of:1) Crabtree2) L. McCoy3) Kn. Morenogap4) J. Maclin5) C. Wellsgap
 
Here's a 10 minute video of Shonn Greene highlights:

Unfortunately its also a 10 minute video with ####ty music.

 
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Nice video. You can see that he doesn't make a lot of jaw-dropping plays, but he's got a compact frame, he runs hard, he falls forward, and he has good feet for a power back.

 
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