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Duke lacrosse charges to be dropped (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Soonerman
- Start date
kupcho1
Footballguy
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Don't you think they're moving a little to fast here. Maybe they should wait a few more years until these kids lives are completely and utterly destroyed. I'm not sure that some of them won't recover and actually make something of themselves.
No need to go so fast.
No need to go so fast.
When pigs fly...
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Yeah. Big shocker. I won't hold my breath for the Al Sharptons to apologize.
I would love to be an attorney in NC right now. I'd take their civil case for free and with joy.
I would love to be an attorney in NC right now. I'd take their civil case for free and with joy.
M
MelvinTScupper
Guest
Which is nothing. You can't sue public officials.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Yeah, right after Al Sharpton apologizes for Tawana Brawley and after he issues a sincere apology for his "hymietown" remarks.
M
MelvinTScupper
Guest
I've been saying these kids were innocent since the beginning. Do we really think "their lives were completely and utterly destroyed"??I don't. I feel horrible for them, and knew as a layman from the basic facts early on that it was a bull#### show.
NCCommish
Footballguy
I am not so sure. With the ethics issues I have a feeling there is a case here but you may be right.
NCCommish
Footballguy
I think they have absolutely been damaged.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
You can if there is misconduct and malicious prosecution. And I definitely think that there is a strong argument that there was in this case by Nifong.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Yep
M
MelvinTScupper
Guest
I'm not saying you couldn't bring a civil case, but proving that he was malicious is going to be next to impossible, unless someone has something on tape.
M
MelvinTScupper
Guest
I definitely think it "looks like it" but I am nearly 100% certain you couldn't prove it. I hope I'm wrong, and the ####er burns, but I'd bet against it. These kids have already spent a reported $3M defending themselves; maybe they'll find some pro bono...You can if there is misconduct and malicious prosecution. And I definitely think that there is a strong argument that there was in this case by Nifong.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I think that Nifong covering up DNA evidence that didn't agree with his case is pretty solid evidence. If I were a juror, that alone would be enough to prove malicious prosecution. It would be a civil suit so the burden is just a preponderance of the evidence. As long as you are more sure that he did it than didn't do it that's all you need.
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NCCommish
Footballguy
As we have seen once you get something in front of a civil jury the rules are different. There has been enough done here to get a win I think.I definitely think it "looks like it" but I am nearly 100% certain you couldn't prove it. I hope I'm wrong, and the ####er burns, but I'd bet against it. These kids have already spent a reported $3M defending themselves; maybe they'll find some pro bono...
kupcho1
Footballguy
Let's keep in mind for a moment that you are (as are most, if not all FFA-ers) well above average in intelligence as compared to most of our fellow man. You may have known all along that this was a "bull#### show", but there are plenty of people that didn't. There are people that either truly believed, or chose to believe, that the Duke lacrosse team was guilty as charged.Remember, there are still many people that believe (or choose to believe) that OJ didn't kill two people in cold blood.
So if you don't think the charges will follow these kids around for a long, long time you are vastly overestimating the bulk of the population. When the Duke kids were dragged through the mud, that was front page news and a big chunk of Sportscenter. The eventual outcome ... :crickets:
Never forget, in the great pie chart of American intelligence, there's a great big slice labeled "Stupid."
Bevo
Footballguy
M
MelvinTScupper
Guest
I think you two are using too much emotion here. OJ was found innocent.
In any case, I hope you're right.
In any case, I hope you're right.
M
MelvinTScupper
Guest
But, if I agree that most people are indeed "Stupid" -- and I do agree, that means 99% of the population don't even remember these kid's names.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Not in civil court.
M
MelvinTScupper
Guest
OJ is a public official?
simey
Footballguy
I would like to see Durham District Attorney Mike Nifong disbarred, or at least removed from his position as DA. His whole goal in this case was to get himself re-elected as DA.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
OJ was found not guilty. Big difference.And criminal court is different then civil court. He did lose his civil case.
M
MelvinTScupper
Guest
Yeah, whatever. The difference between innocent and not guilty is just the cost of the attorneys.And he lost his civil case because they didn't have to prove MALICIOUS intent. Please tell me you're not drawing an ACTUAL correlary between the two cases. I was merely pointing out how stupid people are when it comes to determining actual guilt or the lack thereof.
I know somebody who knows somebody. Rest assured when they're finally taken off of the defensive and get a chance to collect themselves, they will retaliate. The DA's office is a given. Nifong personally is likely as well, claiming that he so egregiously broke the law and rules of professional conduct that he pierced the immunity afforded him by his office. The City of Durham PD is likely as well. The big question is whether or not Duke is included in the suits or not. This isn't over, not by a long shot. This is simply the end of the beginning. Fully expect a "Where do I go to get my life back?" presser eventually.
By my understanding, you can if they act far enough outside the parameters of the law and their office.
NCCommish
Footballguy
I'll be rooting for them.
M
MelvinTScupper
Guest
I also heard ESPN's legal analyst, Roger Cossack saying that his team felt not enough evidence existed at this time to support any case against Nifong.
That may very well be true. I didn't say they would win a case or even get it heard. I said I thought it likely that they would try to bring one against him personally based on the argument that he pierced his immunity.
M
MelvinTScupper
Guest
I agree they'll file a case. Why wouldn't they? That alone isn't too expensive, plus it at least accuses him of being malicioius, and hopefully puts a further stain on his life and career.He's a dirtbag scumbag POS.
What I really want to know is if he's still paying for the accuser's college as he promised to do when she made these accusations.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Interesting that the arguement seems to be that Nifong should suffer the same fate he inflicted on the young men. That though the likelihood of success is minimal, and against the letter of the law and the apparent weight of the evidence, that those matters should be ignored and the matter pursued. Further interesting, to me at least, that any attorney handling the matter will essentially be doing so for the same reasons as did Nifong, because it will initially be percieved as being good for one's career.
Did Nifong have probable cause to file with a victim statement, some initially corroborating testimony, and some physical evidence-yes. Should he have, as a cautious and prudent prosecutor done a more thourough initial investigation before filing-ideally. Was he then reckless, I would say so. Was he malicious thereby abrogating his protections under governmental immunity, very unlikely. Is there some record that as the evidence developed futher that he amended charges, yes. Will that help him in avoiding a civil suit that already looks weak, yes.
Ultimately, as a legal matter he is sitting in a pretty good position. That said if the judge allows the matter past summary judgment, and some just might, you never know what a jury will do.
Did Nifong have probable cause to file with a victim statement, some initially corroborating testimony, and some physical evidence-yes. Should he have, as a cautious and prudent prosecutor done a more thourough initial investigation before filing-ideally. Was he then reckless, I would say so. Was he malicious thereby abrogating his protections under governmental immunity, very unlikely. Is there some record that as the evidence developed futher that he amended charges, yes. Will that help him in avoiding a civil suit that already looks weak, yes.
Ultimately, as a legal matter he is sitting in a pretty good position. That said if the judge allows the matter past summary judgment, and some just might, you never know what a jury will do.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
As a further practical matter I suspect Nifong is more or less judgment proof. Few prosecutors have that kind of bank. These families are already on the hook for massive legal fees, the last thing they need is more. It would take quite a commitment to proceed. Of course their sense of having been wronged may give them that commitment, and others, with their own agendas may be willing to help financially to pursue the matter.
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Nilfong purposely withheld exculpatory evidence from the defense and made inflammatory and as it turns out completely incorrect statements to the media. The first is illegal and the second is unethical and not allowed by the BAR. That it why the BAR has charges against him. I don't think he's in a good legal position at all. If the BAR levies any type of penalty against him whatsoever, even just a public reprimand, I think it will pretty much guarantee a victory in a civil case from the accused players.
They'll go after not just Nilfong but the county and Duke as well. They'll get good money from the other two. And they can get a judgement against Nilfong even if he can't pay it and then pursue him forever just for fun, like the Goldman's have done against O.J.
Bogeys
Footballguy
DW, Didn't he file the charges without ever talking to the victim? I had read it was months and he didn't interview her and that he hid DNA evidence that didn't agree with his case. Wouldn't that be enough to prove misconduct, or to at least get it to a jury in a civil case? As an aside, I love you lawyers types to discuss these issues on here....very interesting.I realize there is probably a thread that discusses all this, but I do have to actually work occassionally.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
The sanction for the withholding of exculpatory evidence is the exclusion of the same. Yes, he is answerable to the Bar. I believe he is a disgrace and should be disbarred. The question in a civil suit, at least legally will not be is he an unworthy jackass and a political opportunist. The question is does his immunity stand.StrikeS2k said:
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I haven't followed this much. Does this mean a) the DA knows the woman wasn't raped; b) the DA in unsure of the rape but can't prove it either way; c) thinks the woman was raped but has absolutely no chance of figuring out who was the rapist; or d) something else?
Noone thinks a raped occurred anymore, except maybe Jesse Jackson. There is 0 proof that anything resembling rape occurred. There never was.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I would go after the university as well without hesitation. I would also personally name the professors personally from the university that jumped on the cause and carried the pitchforks. Basically, I'm carpet bombing.Genedoc said:
Clearly that's the question. And I'll admit I have no idea what the level of egregiousness in his actions is before the immunity is nullified. I'm just saying that IMO if the BAR sanctions him, and especially if they disbar him as they should, it will do a lot to overturning the immunity. I could be wrong.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Just seeing the public part of this I think he was malicious. In the end, the chances of them getting him on a verdict is slim, no doubt, but I would bet that they survive sumjudge on all these, shall we say, questionable complaints.Ditkaless Wonders said:
M
MelvinTScupper
Guest
See, that's just plain wrong. The medical examination concluded that there was evidence supporting a claim of physical assault.Whether it was the lacrosse team or some random guy she slept with earlier that night, THAT is where there is no proof.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Is that what the woman said?
Do you believe a Duke Lacrosse player raped her, based upon the DNA evidence, the testimony of the other stripper, and all the other evidence that has come to light? yes or no?
NCCommish
Footballguy
Exactly. Go after everbody. I would want my 3 mil back and a little satisfaction.
Fla\/\/ed
Footballguy
Which time? She changed her story more times than the number of Imus threads here.
Fla\/\/ed
Footballguy
The DA= Tool of the highest proportions.
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