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Okay, maybe the EPA isn't such a bad thing (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Christo
- Start date
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Well, yes, that's what happens when you don't regulate pollution enough and it costs less to pollute.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Yeah Jon_mx you've always been the voice of moderation in here.
igbomb
Footballguy
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Looks like red wine to me. I mean, as long as we don't let little kids drink it, this could be a good thing.
pantagrapher
Footballguy
pantagrapher
Footballguy
Thinking either the free market has all the answers or thinking that government has all the answers are the extreme views. HTH.
pantagrapher
Footballguy
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Of course the crazy thing about China is they are communist which is the ultimate, maximum amount of "regulation" you can have.
I love the EPA, they just seem to spend more time (or get more press) on idealistic causes and species protection than actually forcing companies to clean up waterways. We could use some help down here.
I love the EPA, they just seem to spend more time (or get more press) on idealistic causes and species protection than actually forcing companies to clean up waterways. We could use some help down here.
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igbomb
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
So, nothing that was brought up in this thread. And nothing that's relevant to this discussion. Good job, Mr. Irrelevant Tangent.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Really have to flip through those pictures in the OP.
Unbelievable.
http://www.businessinsider.com/china-water-pollution-photos-2014-7#in-may-of-last-year-chinese-premier-li-keqiang-declared-war-on-pollution-the-government-dedicated-2-trillion-yuan-specifically-to-water-conservation-in-china-7
Unbelievable.
http://www.businessinsider.com/china-water-pollution-photos-2014-7#in-may-of-last-year-chinese-premier-li-keqiang-declared-war-on-pollution-the-government-dedicated-2-trillion-yuan-specifically-to-water-conservation-in-china-7
It was a relevant response to "The free market will protect our environment". That was a hyperbole. No one suggest that there should be no government regulation on keeping the water clean.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Huh? Idealistic causes? They're a federal agency administering statutes, they don't take up causes. And the EPA doesn't even do species protection. The Fish and Wildlife Service administers the Endangered Species Act.
Sounds like someone's been watching too much Fox News.
Parrothead
Footballguy
well it is Red China
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
The destruction of the Three Gorges Dam, unbelievable environmental damage caused by this monstrosity.
http://phys.org/news/2011-05-china-gorges-host-ills.html
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~vanti20m/classweb/website/environmentalimpact.html
http://phys.org/news/2011-05-china-gorges-host-ills.html
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~vanti20m/classweb/website/environmentalimpact.html
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I said "(or get more press)". Take that as you will.
I just know we have a ton of unenforced, unregulated pollution down here, from the bayous being ripped up by the oil companies to whatnot in the air and water. I think the EPA is just as affected by insider influence as our other agencies.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
But you have no idea what EPA even does. You just said they spend too much time doing things they literally don't do at all. That's probably not a sound foundation from which to launch criticism.
Also, all air and water pollution is regulated, so I don't know what you mean by unregulation pollution. Enforcement? That's budgeting issue. You want more, vote out the Republicans who slash the agency's budget. Simple as that.
And I don't even know what "insider influence" is. Who's an EPA insider, and who are they influencing? 99% of the people who work there are lifetime civil servants.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Tobias - I can tell you we had a major flood protection project that was delayed and practically stopped back in teh 90s or so by demands by the EPA for an environmental protection study. It prevented a sea wall being built which would have hopefully blocked water going straight up the MRGO and into St. Bernard and NO.
Something similar is going on in Imperial Valley in CA.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052970204731804574384731898375624
Yes we should have agencies that do good things. No they shouldn't do a crappy job.
Something similar is going on in Imperial Valley in CA.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052970204731804574384731898375624
Yes we should have agencies that do good things. No they shouldn't do a crappy job.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Tobias the EPA has enough money to do their job ethically and well. That is a sorry and pathetic excuse.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Helpful hint- don't trust the Wall Street Journal opinions page when it comes to understanding the EPA and what it does. That's probably how you ended up thinking they spend too much time on something they don't do at all.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Yeah, I guess you're right. I mean you clearly understand the intricacies of the agency's work. If only that darn Endangered Species Act wasn't distracting them from their regulation of offshore oil and gas operations!
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
WSJ knows a little bit about business and right now the Imperial Valley economy is a disaster.
The Imperial Valley drought is a real thing.
If you want to talk EPA failures, let's look at Super Fund. Just a horrible program which spent almost all of the time and effort trying to extract money out of the current property owners (which is many cases were not the real polluter). It was mostly a power grab/legal stuggle and in many cases delayed or prevented the cleanup of nasty sites. Made more lawyers rich was it biggest accomplishment.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
No, I mean the EPA. Since you seem to understand their work and their budget well enough to determine that they "have enough money to do their job ethically and well," how would you suggest they reallocate the time and money you think they're currently wasting on "idealistic causes and species protection"?
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
The problems you identify here are mostly in the operation of the statutory scheme, not its administration.
It's amazing how many people feel qualified to criticize things they know absolutely nothing about.
It's amazing that people use an example of failures from communist China as a soap box against free markets.
BTW. My biggest point was not against the EPA, but against the idea that the arguement is an all for or all against debate. The debate is about the level of government and we are at the point where our government is too big, not that it needs to be completely eliminated.
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timschochet
Footballguy
Tobias, what Saints posted is an article from the WSJ and not the opinions page. I subscribe to the WSJ for business reasons, and I believe that, though their editorials are certainly partisan, their articles can generally be trusted as a good source of business information.
Rather than disparaging the WSJ, what specifically about that article do you believe to be incorrect?
Rather than disparaging the WSJ, what specifically about that article do you believe to be incorrect?
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
They have over 8 billion in budget and almost 20,000 employees, they can start by cleaning up the 20 or so LA sites here that have been awaiting cleanup as far back as the 1980's. Enforce penalties against the corporations who are supposed to be paying for this stuff, largely oil and chemical companies here. We have one of the highest cancer rates in America. To me that's why they were created and that's what they should be doing.
I will add that our bayous have been ripped up by canals created by the oil companies over the years, it would be nice if someone in the federal government did something about that. It's called the wetlands, ie part of the "Environment."
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timschochet
Footballguy
Sp what are the reasons, in your opinion, that this is not being done?SaintsInDome2006 said:
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
So I just read this WSJ piece- there is literally not one mention of the EPA.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
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