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Jesus (1 Viewer)

jamny

jamny

Footballguy
Who believes there was never even a preacher named Jesus during the time described?

 
I want to believe. I feel the first thing I need is to know is that an actual Jesus existed.

I'm kind of on board with it.

 
There were lots of preachers and Jesus was a common name, so odds are pretty good the two intersected at some point.

 
There was most definitely a historical person we refer to as Jesus. I believe he was the son of God, but I can easily see where many people think that the stories told about him were hyperbole, or just pumped up PR trying to get people on board with the whole Christianity thing. The man on which these stories were built undoubtedly existed.

 
'Mr. Know-It-All said:
There was most definitely a historical person we refer to as Jesus. I believe he was the son of God, but I can easily see where many people think that the stories told about him were hyperbole, or just pumped up PR trying to get people on board with the whole Christianity thing. The man on which these stories were built undoubtedly existed.
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What evidence do you base this on?I'm in the camp that a man named jesus probably existed, but I've never seen anything that one could reasonably use as a basis to make the bolded statements.

 
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'matuski said:
'Mr. Know-It-All said:
There was most definitely a historical person we refer to as Jesus. I believe he was the son of God, but I can easily see where many people think that the stories told about him were hyperbole, or just pumped up PR trying to get people on board with the whole Christianity thing. The man on which these stories were built undoubtedly existed.
Click to expand...
What evidence do you base this on?I'm in the camp that a man named jesus probably existed, but I've never seen anything that one could reasonably use as a basis to make the bolded statements.
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its in the bible ...it has to be true :rolleyes:
 
'BustedKnuckles said:
'matuski said:
'Mr. Know-It-All said:
There was most definitely a historical person we refer to as Jesus. I believe he was the son of God, but I can easily see where many people think that the stories told about him were hyperbole, or just pumped up PR trying to get people on board with the whole Christianity thing. The man on which these stories were built undoubtedly existed.
Click to expand...
What evidence do you base this on?I'm in the camp that a man named jesus probably existed, but I've never seen anything that one could reasonably use as a basis to make the bolded statements.
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its in the bible ...it has to be true :rolleyes:
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I really hope that isn't their answer.
 
I'm certain that the man known as "Jesus" existed, but I'm of the belief that most of the legends he's known for are due to stories told over and over again and embellished several times over. We'll never know what Jesus really did in his life, or why he was significant.

 
Jewish historians point to the historical Jesus. Unfortunately, at least in the case of Josephus, it appears that additions were made to his historical account that tried to answer divinity claims. However, it cannot be denied his non-edited accounts described the human Jesus. There are numerous sources - the easiest synopsis is just look up historical Jesus on Wikipedia and they cite numerous claims and counterclaims from Jewish, pagan and Roman sources concerning the historical figure of Jesus. Again, these do not in any way address the divine aspects of his nature - they just point to the existence of the historical figure.

 
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i am not a religious scholar but i think the "historical Jesus" is pretty well established as having lived.

 
'SlaX said:
I'm certain that the man known as "Jesus" existed, but I'm of the belief that most of the legends he's known for are due to stories told over and over again and embellished several times over. We'll never know what Jesus really did in his life, or why he was significant.
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Some of us disagree.
 
'Patrick Bateman said:
'pecorino said:
i am not a religious scholar but i think the "historical Jesus" is pretty well established as having lived.
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Based on what?
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some such books and documentaries. i can't quote you titles off the top of my head, but from what i recall the evidence seems to be quite convincing (although not irrefutable, iirc). pretty sure there is indeed a faction of scholars who are not sold on the existence of the historical Jesus but, again if memory serves, they are few and far between. anyone looking for absolute proof would be better served studying mathematics.
 
Dr Gobbler there was at least one Jew named Jesus. The man the Christianity is based around was Jewish.

 
'pecorino said:
'Patrick Bateman said:
'pecorino said:
i am not a religious scholar but i think the "historical Jesus" is pretty well established as having lived.
Click to expand...
Based on what?
Click to expand...
some such books and documentaries. i can't quote you titles off the top of my head, but from what i recall the evidence seems to be quite convincing (although not irrefutable, iirc). pretty sure there is indeed a faction of scholars who are not sold on the existence of the historical Jesus but, again if memory serves, they are few and far between. anyone looking for absolute proof would be better served studying mathematics.
Click to expand...
Oh, in that case... :rolleyes:
 
we talking about the guy who helped build my house, the guy who replaced my roof, or the guy who mows lawns? the roof and lawn guys did a MUCH better job... jesus the carpenter obviously never heard of a gd framing square nor a plumb...

of course, since i live in georgia, the lack of use of the square and plumb is probably attributed to the red-neck construction supervisor (damn those masonic influences)...

happy fertility day!!! just one more day (in a series) co-opted by the church to tamp down/co-opt all those pagan celebrations...

the bison steak i had today was especially fine...

 
'nephilim said:
we talking about the guy who helped build my house, the guy who replaced my roof, or the guy who mows lawns? the roof and lawn guys did a MUCH better job... jesus the carpenter obviously never heard of a gd framing square nor a plumb...of course, since i live in georgia, the lack of use of the square and plumb is probably attributed to the red-neck construction supervisor (damn those masonic influences)...happy fertility day!!! just one more day (in a series) co-opted by the church to tamp down/co-opt all those pagan celebrations...the bison steak i had today was especially fine...
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Solid! :thumbup:
 
'babydemon90 said:
'jamny said:
Who believes there was never even a preacher named Jesus during the time described?
Click to expand...
I think even most atheists would concede there was a historical Jesus
Click to expand...
What counts as a historical Jesus?Anyone named Yeshua who lived between 100 BC and 100 AD? There were lots and lots of historical Jesuses.

Or anyone who died and rose again three days later to be seated at the right and of the creator of the universe? I don't think any atheists would concede that such a person existed.

Or something in between? What does it take?

 
'pecorino said:
'Patrick Bateman said:
'pecorino said:
i am not a religious scholar but i think the "historical Jesus" is pretty well established as having lived.
Click to expand...
Based on what?
Click to expand...
some such books and documentaries. i can't quote you titles off the top of my head, but from what i recall the evidence seems to be quite convincing (although not irrefutable, iirc). pretty sure there is indeed a faction of scholars who are not sold on the existence of the historical Jesus but, again if memory serves, they are few and far between. anyone looking for absolute proof would be better served studying mathematics.
Click to expand...
Even if there really was a historical Jesus, there wouldn't be very good evidence of his existence. We're talking 2,000 years ago, when written records were mostly non-existent, and whatever records did exist are nearly all lost.No, there's no good evidence of a historical Jesus. Which doesn't tell us much one way or the other, since the lack of evidence is consistent with both scenarios — that there was such a person, and that there wasn't.
 
'Maurile Tremblay said:
'babydemon90 said:
'jamny said:
Who believes there was never even a preacher named Jesus during the time described?
Click to expand...
I think even most atheists would concede there was a historical Jesus
Click to expand...
What counts as a historical Jesus?Anyone named Yeshua who lived between 100 BC and 100 AD? There were lots and lots of historical Jesuses.

Or anyone who died and rose again three days later to be seated at the right and of the creator of the universe? I don't think any atheists would concede that such a person existed.

Or something in between? What does it take?
Click to expand...
I think the point is that the person known as Jesus Christ, of which the Christian religion is focused on, was indeed a very real person. There is only a very small minority of individuals who say that there was never such a person. Now, the nature of that person and what He did and said etc is where everyone mostly disagrees. From just some Jewish guy who had a fanatical following to being the Son of God- and all in between.
 
'Maurile Tremblay said:
'pecorino said:
'Patrick Bateman said:
'pecorino said:
i am not a religious scholar but i think the "historical Jesus" is pretty well established as having lived.
Click to expand...
Based on what?
Click to expand...
some such books and documentaries. i can't quote you titles off the top of my head, but from what i recall the evidence seems to be quite convincing (although not irrefutable, iirc). pretty sure there is indeed a faction of scholars who are not sold on the existence of the historical Jesus but, again if memory serves, they are few and far between. anyone looking for absolute proof would be better served studying mathematics.
Click to expand...
Even if there really was a historical Jesus, there wouldn't be very good evidence of his existence. We're talking 2,000 years ago, when written records were mostly non-existent, and whatever records did exist are nearly all lost.No, there's no good evidence of a historical Jesus. Which doesn't tell us much one way or the other, since the lack of evidence is consistent with both scenarios — that there was such a person, and that there wasn't.
Click to expand...
That's why it's so absurd that it has such an influence over many Americans. Most Americans, are too ignorant to research. They just believe what they are told.
 
Maurile is right. Any evidence we've got at this point is completely unreliable. It was just too long ago. If we didn't write much down and in 2k years someone picked up the Harry Potter series and believed it, well, imagine the calamity. This could just be that.

 
'Patrick Bateman said:
'Maurile Tremblay said:
'pecorino said:
'Patrick Bateman said:
'pecorino said:
i am not a religious scholar but i think the "historical Jesus" is pretty well established as having lived.
Click to expand...
Based on what?
Click to expand...
some such books and documentaries. i can't quote you titles off the top of my head, but from what i recall the evidence seems to be quite convincing (although not irrefutable, iirc). pretty sure there is indeed a faction of scholars who are not sold on the existence of the historical Jesus but, again if memory serves, they are few and far between. anyone looking for absolute proof would be better served studying mathematics.
Click to expand...
Even if there really was a historical Jesus, there wouldn't be very good evidence of his existence. We're talking 2,000 years ago, when written records were mostly non-existent, and whatever records did exist are nearly all lost.No, there's no good evidence of a historical Jesus. Which doesn't tell us much one way or the other, since the lack of evidence is consistent with both scenarios — that there was such a person, and that there wasn't.
Click to expand...
That's why it's so absurd that it has such an influence over many Americans. Most Americans, are too ignorant to research. They just believe what they are told.
Click to expand...
There is an element of that to be sure. I have wavered from belief to non-belief to reserved belief over the course of my 43 years, but there is evidence that the man existed despite Maurile's protestation that no evidence exists. His argument that it is 2000 years so untrustworthy flies in the face of knowing anything that didn't happen in your observable existence. Do we then trust nothing that was passed down to us by historians? I think the better route is to take any historical accounts with discernment until we locate the youtube videos of the goings on around in the area around the time in question. From a historical perspective, do people just decide what they find acceptable if it lines up with their preconcieved ideas of what they want it to be? This cuts both ways - beleivers should look for sources outside their holy texts, just as disbelievers should honestly assess whether they trust the extra-biblical texts that describe the historical figure of Jesus. To say none exists as Maurile stated is willful ignorance of historical record. Yes, there is a paucity of records, but they do exist.
 
If a guy came and knocked on your door and said he was Jesus and came back to save you, would the believers let 'him' in?

 
'Mr. Know-It-All said:
Jewish historians point to the historical Jesus. Unfortunately, at least in the case of Josephus, it appears that additions were made to his historical account that tried to answer divinity claims. However, it cannot be denied his non-edited accounts described the human Jesus. There are numerous sources - the easiest synopsis is just look up historical Jesus on Wikipedia and they cite numerous claims and counterclaims from Jewish, pagan and Roman sources concerning the historical figure of Jesus. Again, these do not in any way address the divine aspects of his nature - they just point to the existence of the historical figure.
Click to expand...
Having looked at wiki, it remains true that I've never seen anything to allow for a definitive claim. I see no concrete evidence. :shrug:
 
You'd think a guy who raised people from the dead, and who himself reappeared after dying, would've received a little more press at the time.

 
'Chadstroma said:
'Maurile Tremblay said:
'babydemon90 said:
'jamny said:
Who believes there was never even a preacher named Jesus during the time described?
Click to expand...
I think even most atheists would concede there was a historical Jesus
Click to expand...
What counts as a historical Jesus?Anyone named Yeshua who lived between 100 BC and 100 AD? There were lots and lots of historical Jesuses.

Or anyone who died and rose again three days later to be seated at the right and of the creator of the universe? I don't think any atheists would concede that such a person existed.

Or something in between? What does it take?
Click to expand...
I think the point is that the person known as Jesus Christ, of which the Christian religion is focused on, was indeed a very real person. There is only a very small minority of individuals who say that there was never such a person. Now, the nature of that person and what He did and said etc is where everyone mostly disagrees. From just some Jewish guy who had a fanatical following to being the Son of God- and all in between.
Click to expand...
And a very large majority are basing their opinion on what evidence again?
 
'jomar said:
You'd think a guy who raised people from the dead, and who himself reappeared after dying, would've received a little more press at the time.
Click to expand...
Right. Or left some art, scientific writings, or JESUS WAS HERE graffiti maybe...something to let people down the road know that he had their backs.
 
Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews was written around 94 AD. It's not like we don't have writings from those times, Herodotus dates back to 5th century BC. Who were some of the known scholors/writers from the time of Christ?

 
'Apple Jack said:
'jomar said:
You'd think a guy who raised people from the dead, and who himself reappeared after dying, would've received a little more press at the time.
Click to expand...
Right. Or left some art, scientific writings, or JESUS WAS HERE graffiti maybe...something to let people down the road know that he had their backs.
Click to expand...
you think he could have bent the rules and used a camera phone at least.. why wait 2000 years till stupid mortals invent it?
 
Why does it upset people that some choose to believe in Jesus?

The timing of this thread and some posts that read like attacks really makes me :rolleyes:

 
'Apple Jack said:
'jomar said:
You'd think a guy who raised people from the dead, and who himself reappeared after dying, would've received a little more press at the time.
Click to expand...
Right. Or left some art, scientific writings, or JESUS WAS HERE graffiti maybe...something to let people down the road know that he had their backs.
Click to expand...
Well he is the main character in the most widely read book for nearly 2000 years straight.
 
'Ilov80s said:
'Apple Jack said:
'jomar said:
You'd think a guy who raised people from the dead, and who himself reappeared after dying, would've received a little more press at the time.
Click to expand...
Right. Or left some art, scientific writings, or JESUS WAS HERE graffiti maybe...something to let people down the road know that he had their backs.
Click to expand...
Well he is the main character in the most widely read book for nearly 2000 years straight.
Click to expand...
The Bible reads like bad fiction. I'm talking about something he wrote to be passed through the ages. Like, listen, I know it sounds ridiculous, but seriously, I'm son the God.
 
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