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Linebacker Tiers [early camp update 8/2] (1 Viewer)

Bracie Smathers said:
Any thoughts on Buffalo Bills rookie 3rd round draft pick LB Preston Brown as a potential dynasty stash?

Wondering since recent reports that projected starting MLB Brandon Spikes is being used on special teams for the first time in is career possibly hinting he wont be a full time starter leaving open some PT for Brown who has been getting 'decent' mention from the coaching staff.

Solidly built at 6'1 251 lbs, looks the part of a strong run defender but other than that I don't know much about him.

Just wondering your thoughts on Bills 3rd round rookie LB Preston Brown since he's not listed even as a dynsasty stash.
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I have him listed in the dynasty stash category. Brown caught the eye of some draft analysts as a potential mid-round linebacker who could compete for an ILB role. He's a developmental prospect behind Spikes, but I don't see him as more than a base defense, between-the-tackles player in the long term.


Bracie Smathers said:
SIDE NOTE: I originally thought the buzz given to Browns rookie LB Christian Kirksey was premature because I felt it was based on Pettine's work last year with Kiko Alonzo moreso than any talent Kirksey brough to the table but in a suprise Christian has been getting solid reports from recent OTAs and first day of mandatory mini camp.

Add reports came out that his college coach has had trouble finding a replacement for his leadership on the recruiting trail at Iowa.

I won't compare Kiko with Kirksey but it is possible that Christian 'might possibly' wind up starting or earning decent playing time in his rookie season.
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I'm not a big fan of Kirksey, but it's hard to ignore a third round pick in today's draft value, especially one tabbed by an aggressive coach like Pettine who wants to put his stamp on the Cleveland defense. And Craig Robertson is nowhere near talented enough to keep a priority rookie in a developmental role. Unless Kirksey completely flops in the preseason or misses lots of developmental time to injury, he has an excellent chance to start right away and play every down.

 
Jene Bramel said:
cr8f said:
Any thoughts on Carl Bradford Green Bay moving to ILB opposite Hawk or replacing him?
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Whole lot of speculation about that among beat guys on Twitter during the draft. I didn't see Bradford as a fit there and the team said then that he would be looked at as an OLB. Anything changed in OTAs? I haven't seen any reports that he's taking snaps inside.

I don't think the Packers care that much about the depth at ILB right now. They know what they have in Hawk and Jones. They didn't see an obvious fit this offseason and ended up bringing back Lattimore -- another known commodity -- late. I think they'd be comfortable using a 6-7 DB package on non-base downs this year. That assumes the corners are (and stay) healthy, of course, but I think that may be part of the reason they didn't make an ILB upgrade a higher priority.

Long term, I suppose it's possible that Bradford transitions inside, but I wouldn't count on it being a statistically successful move.
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Nothing at OTA's, I have seen a couple of reporters speculating he could be inside and Mayock said he didn't think he was long enough outside so he thought he was best suited inside in a 3-4. Will keep monitoring it. Thanks.

 
I'm relatively new to IDP, so I just wanted to clarify what is meant by a "rush LB." Is this an OLB that's more likely to excel in big play leagues as opposed to tackle-heavy leagues? Or is the other way around? I'm in what I believe is a tackle-light league (1/tackle, 0.5/assist, 3/FF, 3/FR, 5/INT, 4/sack, 2/PD) and wanted to make sure I was using your tiers correctly.

 
SelenaCat said:
I'm relatively new to IDP, so I just wanted to clarify what is meant by a "rush LB." Is this an OLB that's more likely to excel in big play leagues as opposed to tackle-heavy leagues? Or is the other way around? I'm in what I believe is a tackle-light league (1/tackle, 0.5/assist, 3/FF, 3/FR, 5/INT, 4/sack, 2/PD) and wanted to make sure I was using your tiers correctly.
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Typically a 3-4 OLB whose strength is rushing the QB (Von Miller, Aldon Smith, Clay Matthews, etc.). And while the great ones can be productive in tackle-heavy leagues, they are much more valuable in big play leagues.

 
CLE LB K.Kirksey or JAX LB T.Smith?

Looks like T.Smith has the higher upside, all thou his body frame right now scares me, he's up to 219. He just looks tiny for a LB. Was talk of him moving to S, but i don't see that happening.

Kirksey might have the chance to start sooner, but not as talented as Smith.

If Polouszny leaves in couple years, wouldn't Smith become a stud then.

Thoughts?

 
J Giles Band said:
SelenaCat said:
I'm relatively new to IDP, so I just wanted to clarify what is meant by a "rush LB." Is this an OLB that's more likely to excel in big play leagues as opposed to tackle-heavy leagues? Or is the other way around? I'm in what I believe is a tackle-light league (1/tackle, 0.5/assist, 3/FF, 3/FR, 5/INT, 4/sack, 2/PD) and wanted to make sure I was using your tiers correctly.
Click to expand...
Typically a 3-4 OLB whose strength is rushing the QB (Von Miller, Aldon Smith, Clay Matthews, etc.). And while the great ones can be productive in tackle-heavy leagues, they are much more valuable in big play leagues.
Click to expand...
Thank you.

Am I correct in assuming that with my 4:1 sack to tackle ratio (what most would considered a "balanced" scoring level?), I should consider them as high risk/high reward type players and drop them a half tier compared to the players with more consistent tackles?

 
SelenaCat said:
J Giles Band said:
SelenaCat said:
I'm relatively new to IDP, so I just wanted to clarify what is meant by a "rush LB." Is this an OLB that's more likely to excel in big play leagues as opposed to tackle-heavy leagues? Or is the other way around? I'm in what I believe is a tackle-light league (1/tackle, 0.5/assist, 3/FF, 3/FR, 5/INT, 4/sack, 2/PD) and wanted to make sure I was using your tiers correctly.
Click to expand...
Typically a 3-4 OLB whose strength is rushing the QB (Von Miller, Aldon Smith, Clay Matthews, etc.). And while the great ones can be productive in tackle-heavy leagues, they are much more valuable in big play leagues.
Click to expand...
Thank you.

Am I correct in assuming that with my 4:1 sack to tackle ratio (what most would considered a "balanced" scoring level?), I should consider them as high risk/high reward type players and drop them a half tier compared to the players with more consistent tackles?
Click to expand...
Balanced scoring is typically 2:1, I believe

 
SelenaCat said:
J Giles Band said:
SelenaCat said:
I'm relatively new to IDP, so I just wanted to clarify what is meant by a "rush LB." Is this an OLB that's more likely to excel in big play leagues as opposed to tackle-heavy leagues? Or is the other way around? I'm in what I believe is a tackle-light league (1/tackle, 0.5/assist, 3/FF, 3/FR, 5/INT, 4/sack, 2/PD) and wanted to make sure I was using your tiers correctly.
Click to expand...
Typically a 3-4 OLB whose strength is rushing the QB (Von Miller, Aldon Smith, Clay Matthews, etc.). And while the great ones can be productive in tackle-heavy leagues, they are much more valuable in big play leagues.
Click to expand...
Thank you.

Am I correct in assuming that with my 4:1 sack to tackle ratio (what most would considered a "balanced" scoring level?), I should consider them as high risk/high reward type players and drop them a half tier compared to the players with more consistent tackles?
Click to expand...
Yes to both questions.Yours is absolutely a balanced scoring system. An example of tackle-heavy is FBG's - 1.5, 0.75, 4.0.

And I would say you have it about right in terms of how you adjust for rush LB's. The other factor in determining their value is how many LB's you start in your league. Generally speaking, the very best rush LB's (like Justin Houston and those I mentioned previously) are valuable in any scoring system. But as you suggest, tend to be more hit or miss than LB's who rack up consistent tackle totals every week.

 
J Giles Band said:
SelenaCat said:
J Giles Band said:
SelenaCat said:
I'm relatively new to IDP, so I just wanted to clarify what is meant by a "rush LB." Is this an OLB that's more likely to excel in big play leagues as opposed to tackle-heavy leagues? Or is the other way around? I'm in what I believe is a tackle-light league (1/tackle, 0.5/assist, 3/FF, 3/FR, 5/INT, 4/sack, 2/PD) and wanted to make sure I was using your tiers correctly.
Click to expand...
Typically a 3-4 OLB whose strength is rushing the QB (Von Miller, Aldon Smith, Clay Matthews, etc.). And while the great ones can be productive in tackle-heavy leagues, they are much more valuable in big play leagues.
Click to expand...
Thank you.

Am I correct in assuming that with my 4:1 sack to tackle ratio (what most would considered a "balanced" scoring level?), I should consider them as high risk/high reward type players and drop them a half tier compared to the players with more consistent tackles?
Click to expand...
Yes to both questions.Yours is absolutely a balanced scoring system. An example of tackle-heavy is FBG's - 1.5, 0.75, 4.0.

And I would say you have it about right in terms of how you adjust for rush LB's. The other factor in determining their value is how many LB's you start in your league. Generally speaking, the very best rush LB's (like Justin Houston and those I mentioned previously) are valuable in any scoring system. But as you suggest, tend to be more hit or miss than LB's who rack up consistent tackle totals every week.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

 
J Giles Band said:
SelenaCat said:
J Giles Band said:
SelenaCat said:
I'm relatively new to IDP, so I just wanted to clarify what is meant by a "rush LB." Is this an OLB that's more likely to excel in big play leagues as opposed to tackle-heavy leagues? Or is the other way around? I'm in what I believe is a tackle-light league (1/tackle, 0.5/assist, 3/FF, 3/FR, 5/INT, 4/sack, 2/PD) and wanted to make sure I was using your tiers correctly.
Click to expand...
Typically a 3-4 OLB whose strength is rushing the QB (Von Miller, Aldon Smith, Clay Matthews, etc.). And while the great ones can be productive in tackle-heavy leagues, they are much more valuable in big play leagues.
Click to expand...
Thank you.

Am I correct in assuming that with my 4:1 sack to tackle ratio (what most would considered a "balanced" scoring level?), I should consider them as high risk/high reward type players and drop them a half tier compared to the players with more consistent tackles?
Click to expand...
Yes to both questions.Yours is absolutely a balanced scoring system. An example of tackle-heavy is FBG's - 1.5, 0.75, 4.0.

And I would say you have it about right in terms of how you adjust for rush LB's. The other factor in determining their value is how many LB's you start in your league. Generally speaking, the very best rush LB's (like Justin Houston and those I mentioned previously) are valuable in any scoring system. But as you suggest, tend to be more hit or miss than LB's who rack up consistent tackle totals every week.
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We start 2 LB + a flex, so it looks like I'll be contemplating at least a player or two from these tiers for my LB2 and/or flex position.

Once again, thank you for your answers!

 
KellysHeroes said:
jonboltz said:
Shane Falco said:
jonboltz said:
KellysHeroes said:
guess Cole is going to go down, wayyyyyy down
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How so?
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Maybe the guy that they reached for in the first round will put Cole to bench? Yeah, I;m not seeing it either. I'm not even sure if he's better than Brandon Graham
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This is the IDP forums. Please educate yourself on difference between ILBs, OLBs, Sam, Mike, Will, etc...
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Cole will be 2 downer, competing for tackles with the Greenway & Barr. Barr and Cole will cancel each other out; hows that
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here's an article about greenway from a few weeks ago

http://msn.foxsports.com/north/story/greenway-accepting-challenge-of-learning-new-spots-in-zimmer-s-defense-053014

 
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Any thoughts on Jason Worilds?

Started the season slowly as he was behind Woodley, but through the last 6 games (when he averaged 94% of snaps vs 64% before that) he had the following line:

29 tackles, 8 assists, 6 TFL & 5 sacks.

Pro-rated over an entire season that's:

77 tackles, 21 assists, 16 TFL & 13 sacks.

Now he obviously isn't going to get those stats because that would be outrageous but if he stays healthy I can see 40 tackle/10 sacks with upside for more, which I'd say put him in the Matchup Rush LB tier at worst. Woodley is gone so he's the clear starter in that spot and he had great production when given regular playing time last year.

He's someone I'm trying to acquire in all my big-play leagues, as I find people haven't woken up to his value yet.

 
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if I remember right I think worilds was the one that had a pretty stark contrast in production from the right and left sides.

you might want to look into that.

 
if I remember right I think worilds was the one that had a pretty stark contrast in production from the right and left sides.
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He absolutely does, but he's slated to be the starting Sam(Woodley's old spot, where he actually produces) not the Will(that's Jarvis Jones' territory). When you look at his career game-by-game production when getting to play the Sam he's basically put up numbers almost identical to Woodley's production in his "valuable" years. Of course, it's not like Woodley was a "dead nuts, top 20 FF type" in those years, but he was certainly startable.

That all said, I wouldn't touch Worilds as anything other than a LB4 in tackle heavy leagues. I'd bump him some in big play leagues, sure, but the Sam just isn't a big time spot for tackles in LeBeau's scheme(maybe even less so now with a a second athletic freak playing in the middle next to Timmons), so a lot/most of his scoring is going to be reliant on splash plays.

He'll be in a situation where he probably will have a few weeks that he novas and wins your match up on D for you almost by himself. He'll also probably have just as many where he only gets a couple of QB hits and an assist or two. I expect he'll be pretty high variance, even compared to other 3-4 rush OLB types.

If he winds up playing the Will, for whatever reason, he's almost not worth owning. It's almost been like a switch is flipped from "on" to "off" if he's moved to the right side of the defense for long stretches.

 
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Any thoughts on Emmanuel Lamur? Glowing reports from OTA's so far and mention that he would be a 3 down LB. Not sure how much upside is really there with Burfict tackling anything that moves though, and while I'm still fairly new to IDP it doesn't seem like SLB's give much production historically in a 4-3. I own him in a 32 team league, and while any starting LB can have value in that format, I'm wondering if I should sell while the buzz is high.

 
I'd like to know that too, SLB's have done well at times, so wonder what Jene thinks since he will be on the field 3 downs.

 
Maynard046 said:
Any thoughts on Emmanuel Lamur? Glowing reports from OTA's so far and mention that he would be a 3 down LB. Not sure how much upside is really there with Burfict tackling anything that moves though, and while I'm still fairly new to IDP it doesn't seem like SLB's give much production historically in a 4-3. I own him in a 32 team league, and while any starting LB can have value in that format, I'm wondering if I should sell while the buzz is high.
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Any time a backer is a 3 down guy he has some value. I've taken a chance on Lamur in all leagues I can. It's a low risk, high upside. I would say my fear is that Rey and him negate each other's value but I don't have a lot invested to be fearful. We'll see how the camp plays out.
 
Bojang0301 said:
saintfool said:
Bojang0301 said:
What are the thoughts on Sio Moore with Burnett out of the picture?
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interesting question because i have read some chatter from observers about burris starting at WLB.
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Might have to double down. Kinda hoping Bramel has an opinion on the matter.
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Not much to add unfortunately. Moore is more athletic, has more range and is a better pass rusher. Burris is a veteran player who won't blow a run fit. I don't think Burris can put up enough numbers to be more than a bye week replacement. Even that's questionable. Moore may not win the job and could disappoint if he does, but he has upside that Burris does not.

 
Jene Bramel said:
Bojang0301 said:
saintfool said:
Bojang0301 said:
What are the thoughts on Sio Moore with Burnett out of the picture?
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interesting question because i have read some chatter from observers about burris starting at WLB.
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Might have to double down. Kinda hoping Bramel has an opinion on the matter.
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Not much to add unfortunately. Moore is more athletic, has more range and is a better pass rusher. Burris is a veteran player who won't blow a run fit. I don't think Burris can put up enough numbers to be more than a bye week replacement. Even that's questionable. Moore may not win the job and could disappoint if he does, but he has upside that Burris does not.
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Thanks for the advice. Sounds like holding Moore is the play then. I'm kinda hoping his pass rush ability leads to a 3 down role as the WLB. Burnett put up decent #'s last year.
 
I'm kinda hoping his pass rush ability leads to a 3 down role as the WLB.
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I'm holding out a shred of hope that Moore supplants Roach within the next couple of years. He's got enough speed to reach all levels from the middle and is a pretty strong tackler. Could still be used on interior blitzes, dropped into coverage on TEs, etc.

Roach has always struck me as "just a guy." He was pretty solid last year, but feel Moore could be a decent bit better than that if given the same reps.

 
Pads on on. Browns are going with full tackle pratices and we're hearing good things about Browns rookie MLB Christian Kirksey.

Originally wasn't sure of the pick. Caught me off guard and I'm still a bit skeptical but he's quickly made up ground on incumbent starter Craig Robertson so its possible he might be able to challenge for a starting gig.

He proved that he is a fast learner and looked solid in OTAs with his pass defense and I thought maybe he'd be used in sub packages and on special teams but I guess now with the pads on he's also showing well against the run and from reports he looks better than Robinson..

Don't want to open up a thread on him yet but I'll post updates here unless he winds up grabbing a starting job.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Pads on on. Browns are going with full tackle pratices and we're hearing good things about Browns rookie MLB Christian Kirksey.

Originally wasn't sure of the pick. Caught me off guard and I'm still a bit skeptical but he's quickly made up ground on incumbent starter Craig Robertson so its possible he might be able to challenge for a starting gig.

He proved that he is a fast learner and looked solid in OTAs with his pass defense and I thought maybe he'd be used in sub packages and on special teams but I guess now with the pads on he's also showing well against the run and from reports he looks better than Robinson..

Don't want to open up a thread on him yet but I'll post updates here unless he winds up grabbing a starting job.
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sounds like he is showing good progress. niiiiiice...

 
Bojang0301 said:
Maynard046 said:
Any thoughts on Emmanuel Lamur? Glowing reports from OTA's so far and mention that he would be a 3 down LB. Not sure how much upside is really there with Burfict tackling anything that moves though, and while I'm still fairly new to IDP it doesn't seem like SLB's give much production historically in a 4-3. I own him in a 32 team league, and while any starting LB can have value in that format, I'm wondering if I should sell while the buzz is high.
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Any time a backer is a 3 down guy he has some value. I've taken a chance on Lamur in all leagues I can. It's a low risk, high upside. I would say my fear is that Rey and him negate each other's value but I don't have a lot invested to be fearful. We'll see how the camp plays out.
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any updated thoughts on Lamur?

 
Jene Bramel said:
Early Camp Update | LB Tiers

Includes notes on every player, trends between tier updates, latest ADP data and value/caution designations.
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I had a question about your placing Wesley Woodyard in the 1A (elite upside) category, when both Norton and Rudnicki have him projected 50+ (and Norton specifically lists him as an LB3/LB4 in his Eyes of the Guru). What do you see in him that makes you think he'll vault way up into this category? And would you consider him that highly in a more "balanced" scoring system, rather than the relatively tackle-heavy scoring system FBG uses as a default?

 
JoeSteeler said:
Bojang0301 said:
Maynard046 said:
Any thoughts on Emmanuel Lamur? Glowing reports from OTA's so far and mention that he would be a 3 down LB. Not sure how much upside is really there with Burfict tackling anything that moves though, and while I'm still fairly new to IDP it doesn't seem like SLB's give much production historically in a 4-3. I own him in a 32 team league, and while any starting LB can have value in that format, I'm wondering if I should sell while the buzz is high.
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Any time a backer is a 3 down guy he has some value. I've taken a chance on Lamur in all leagues I can. It's a low risk, high upside. I would say my fear is that Rey and him negate each other's value but I don't have a lot invested to be fearful. We'll see how the camp plays out.
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any updated thoughts on Lamur?
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It looks like he had a good stat line tonight. I haven't had a chance to watch the game tonight, but can anyone that has comment?

 
SelenaCat said:
Jene Bramel said:
Early Camp Update | LB Tiers

Includes notes on every player, trends between tier updates, latest ADP data and value/caution designations.
Click to expand...
I had a question about your placing Wesley Woodyard in the 1A (elite upside) category, when both Norton and Rudnicki have him projected 50+ (and Norton specifically lists him as an LB3/LB4 in his Eyes of the Guru). What do you see in him that makes you think he'll vault way up into this category? And would you consider him that highly in a more "balanced" scoring system, rather than the relatively tackle-heavy scoring system FBG uses as a default?
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I'm not trying to answer for anybody, but most of the difference of opinion I see on woody is basically just whether he keeps the job all year -- I think there are people who see a little more doubt and risk on his opportunity, as opposed to others.

i'm just guessing on that.

 
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