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Patriots being investigated after Colts game (3 Viewers)

Percent of NFL teams actively trying to steal play sheets?

  • 0%

    Votes: 90 33.0%
  • 25%

    Votes: 91 33.3%
  • 50%

    Votes: 19 7.0%
  • 75%

    Votes: 16 5.9%
  • 100%

    Votes: 57 20.9%

  • Total voters
    273
It does seem rather interesting that the league

offices run by Goodell had little to no credibility coming out of the Rice scandal and the majority of posters on this board wanted him fired. However, now the vast majority of this board

take anonymous leaks from Goodell's office to the press as absolute proof the Pats cheated.
Well....that's not very interesting actually unless you believe RG secretly wants to throttle his bestest buddy Bob Kraft.
I highly doubt Roger is making the leaks to King and Mort. It is pretty well known that most in the league offices dislike Belichick and I'm not sure many outside of Goodell have a close relationship with Kraft. However, I think you fail to see my point. Almost nobody believed the NFL when they made official statements on the Rice scandal. Are you denying that? Yet, almost everyone is taking as gospel anonymous leaks from this same office to two reporters.

As a Pats fan, I am not closing off any scenario at this point. Honestly, anything in the full spectrum of blatant, arrogant and deliberate cheating with full knowledge by Belichick and Brady to this being the most overblown story of the decade. I think anyone on this board thinking with certainty they know what happened is forming that opinion while being uninformed.

 
Why is the NFL dragging their feet on reporting their findings?

I suspect they are not sure how to tell the public that their ref in charge didn't pressure test the footballs with a gauge before the game.

People would be up in arms .... Patriot haters would cry "fix".

Or is it my theory (yes, mine :thumbup: ) of the Pats using hot air to inflate the balls would be another scenario that would explain pressure loss without "altering" the footballs.

If this if found to be the case, what can the NFL do?

a) The Patriots supplied balls that met league specifications and were approved for play by NFL officials.

b) The balls were not altered at any time.

How could the NFL penalize a team for this?

 
Why is the NFL dragging their feet on reporting their findings?

I suspect they are not sure how to tell the public that their ref in charge didn't pressure test the footballs with a gauge before the game.

People would be up in arms .... Patriot haters would cry "fix".

Or is it my theory (yes, mine :thumbup: ) of the Pats using hot air to inflate the balls would be another scenario that would explain pressure loss without "altering" the footballs.

If this if found to be the case, what can the NFL do?

a) The Patriots supplied balls that met league specifications and were approved for play by NFL officials.

b) The balls were not altered at any time.

How could the NFL penalize a team for this?
Where has it been stated that the refs didn't use a gauge to test the balls? How else could they confirm the pressure, or is that the main issue for the Pats, that the refs didn't property check the balls pressure?

 
Why is the NFL dragging their feet on reporting their findings?

I suspect they are not sure how to tell the public that their ref in charge didn't pressure test the footballs with a gauge before the game.

People would be up in arms .... Patriot haters would cry "fix".

Or is it my theory (yes, mine :thumbup: ) of the Pats using hot air to inflate the balls would be another scenario that would explain pressure loss without "altering" the footballs.

If this if found to be the case, what can the NFL do?

a) The Patriots supplied balls that met league specifications and were approved for play by NFL officials.

b) The balls were not altered at any time.

How could the NFL penalize a team for this?
I'd say they are dragging their feet for one of two reasons

Either they've got the Patriots nailed and are trying to figure out how to punish them or what to do

Or

They have spent all this time, interviewed everyone, looked at videotape, and have nothing, and are trying to figure out what to do.

 
So to basically summarize . . .

The NFL is conducting an investigation into potential wrong doing by New England and the league hired the law firm Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe.

The league either has no evidence or a mountain of evidence depending upon individual opinions.

People trust or do not trust the media reports.

The penalty could range from nothing to a small fine . . . to the Colts playing in the SB, Belicick out as NE head coach or suspended for a year, Brady with a long term suspension, millions of dollars in fines, and the loss of years worth of Patriots draft picks.

Either way, 3/4 of the country thinks the Patriots bear the Scarlett Letter and are branded as CHEATERS either way?

Is that pretty much accurate?

 
So to basically summarize . . .

The NFL is conducting an investigation into potential wrong doing by New England and the league hired the law firm Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe.

The league either has no evidence or a mountain of evidence depending upon individual opinions.

People trust or do not trust the media reports.

The penalty could range from nothing to a small fine . . . to the Colts playing in the SB, Belicick out as NE head coach or suspended for a year, Brady with a long term suspension, millions of dollars in fines, and the loss of years worth of Patriots draft picks.

Either way, 3/4 of the country thinks the Patriots bear the Scarlett Letter and are branded as CHEATERS either way?

Is that pretty much accurate?
Prolly closer to 95% of the country, but yeah.
 
Why is the NFL dragging their feet on reporting their findings?

I suspect they are not sure how to tell the public that their ref in charge didn't pressure test the footballs with a gauge before the game.

People would be up in arms .... Patriot haters would cry "fix".

Or is it my theory (yes, mine :thumbup: ) of the Pats using hot air to inflate the balls would be another scenario that would explain pressure loss without "altering" the footballs.

If this if found to be the case, what can the NFL do?

a) The Patriots supplied balls that met league specifications and were approved for play by NFL officials.

b) The balls were not altered at any time.

How could the NFL penalize a team for this?
Where has it been stated that the refs didn't use a gauge to test the balls? How else could they confirm the pressure, or is that the main issue for the Pats, that the refs didn't property check the balls pressure?
i read somewhere that the refs just squeeze the balls ...they have been doing this for so long they can just feel the right weight...i work on fire extinguishers and we are supposed to weigh each extinguisher with a hand held scale...but nobody does that ...you just heft it and by years of experience we just know if its underweight or over by a few pounds by feel ...im sure that`s what goes on all the time

 
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Why is the NFL dragging their feet on reporting their findings?

I suspect they are not sure how to tell the public that their ref in charge didn't pressure test the footballs with a gauge before the game.

People would be up in arms .... Patriot haters would cry "fix".

Or is it my theory (yes, mine :thumbup: ) of the Pats using hot air to inflate the balls would be another scenario that would explain pressure loss without "altering" the footballs.

If this if found to be the case, what can the NFL do?

a) The Patriots supplied balls that met league specifications and were approved for play by NFL officials.

b) The balls were not altered at any time.

How could the NFL penalize a team for this?
Where has it been stated that the refs didn't use a gauge to test the balls? How else could they confirm the pressure, or is that the main issue for the Pats, that the refs didn't property check the balls pressure?
Someone from the Bears (former equipment manager?) stated that the refs routinely did not check psi with a gauge.

 
Still no new evidence and I am seeing lots of testimonials and videos that show the PSI in the balls drop big time when you take them from a 70 degree room to a 48 degree field. I'm not going to get into semantics but there are plenty of plausible scientific scenarios being made out there by physics professors that know a hell of a lot more about this than you or I do that exonerate the Pats. I believe these guys over Peter King.

The more I see about the lack of evidence and the temperature factor the more I see the Pats skating. I am not saying they are innocent but I don't see the smoking inflating needle. Most likely they filled the balls in some 80 degree room to 12.5 psi or so prior to inspection before the game and the Colts balls were inflated outside to most likely 14 psi or so because they knew they wanted them to be up to pressure when the testing started and stay within limits at halftime (f'ing rats but who cares). The Pats wanted the opposite and knew they would drop a couple of psi when they hit the colder air.

Gamesmanship yes, but cheating no. There is no rule that says you have to fill the ball with a specific temp of air. Anyone who refutes this scenario is either a blind hater or just ignorant. It has already been proven to be possible on plenty of youtube videos, just do your own search.

I think the likelihood of human involvement of deflating after the initial refs inspection is far less likely than the scenario I posted above. And I think Brady and possibly BB had complete knowledge of how to manipulate the balls for the given conditions.There is no way they are dumb enough to have someone manipulate them with a needle after the fact.

Call them cheaters or whatever you wish but they are not stupid and they found a way around another rule .Problem is that it's not against the rules. Either way even if they are exonerated we all know they will be guilty in the court of public opinion forever. And of course I'm sure they are the only ones in the league who have ever figured out how to do this as it's so difficult to come up with.

Short of some hard physical evidence or confession there isn't going to be any penalty. The league will have to start filling up and furnishing the balls themselves like they should have been doing all along. Much ado about nothing.

 
Why is the NFL dragging their feet on reporting their findings?

I suspect they are not sure how to tell the public that their ref in charge didn't pressure test the footballs with a gauge before the game.

People would be up in arms .... Patriot haters would cry "fix".

Or is it my theory (yes, mine :thumbup: ) of the Pats using hot air to inflate the balls would be another scenario that would explain pressure loss without "altering" the footballs.

If this if found to be the case, what can the NFL do?

a) The Patriots supplied balls that met league specifications and were approved for play by NFL officials.

b) The balls were not altered at any time.

How could the NFL penalize a team for this?
I'd say they are dragging their feet for one of two reasons

Either they've got the Patriots nailed and are trying to figure out how to punish them or what to do

Or

They have spent all this time, interviewed everyone, looked at videotape, and have nothing, and are trying to figure out what to do.
3rd option is they have them nailed but want to wait until after the SB to not have more outrage over the cheater playing in the Super Bowl.

My initial thought after reading the release was they are describing how detailed an investigation they have undertaken as a way to mitigate the outrage when they claim no evidence of direct tampering could be found... no penalty ( or modest fine for the balls that were found to be under )

My second thought was this was a delay tactic to hold any findings until after the SB so they don't have to allow a team they've just punished for skirting rules play in the biggest game.

 
Another question would be...

Do the Patriots find this to be a distraction?

... or motivation?

Last time they were acused of cheating the went on to an undefeated regular season, rolling over opponents and "running up" the score.

 
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All I can picture is the Pats equipment manager with a 50' air hose attached to a compressor that is sitting a small 8' x 8' room that has been heated to about 80 degrees. He is in an equipment room which is a normal 65-70 degrees. He inflates the balls to 12 psi and puts them back one by one into the hot 8' x 8' room. Then about 10 minutes before inspection he takes them out so they don't appear to be hot to the touch.

They then are tested in the nice cozy confines of the stadium by the refs ( you know they don't want to do it out in the cold) and are left there til right before game time. Then by the time Brady uses them they drop down a couple psi. The only question is if the NFL will rule this as a rules infraction? I don't see how they can and I bet they won't even be able to prove that the compressor room was hot or how hot as all someone has to do is turn up a thermostat in the room to heat it up and turn it back down to 65 when they are done.

Also did anyone notice that the league has hired a forensics team as part of the investigation? Hmm, I wonder what scientific angles they are investigating? We're onto Seattle.

 
Another question would be...

Do the Patriots find this to be a distraction?

... or motivation?

Last time they were acused of cheating the went on to an undefeated regular season, rolling over opponents and "running up" the score.
I don't think you can assume that this is going to help the Pats. It could do the opposite? I just hope it doesn't effect the game either way and the best team wins.

 
I wish the league would just say they are continuing to peruse their investigation but will have no further comment until after the SB so we all can move on to enjoying what should be a good game.

 
I wish the league would just say they are continuing to peruse their investigation but will have no further comment until after the SB so we all can move on to enjoying what should be a good game.
I'm already at that point. We all know this will be settled after the SB. I'm enjoying debunking the bs condemnation of the Pats by a slanted media who has no clue as to what happened. I can't wait til the whole thing is resolved and they look like the fools that they are.

 
Personally I doubt the ref actually took a gage to all the balls. It's a mundane task that nobody cared about till now. If it was really important, they'd have records for every ball measured and they could produce those records in 5 minutes and the Rodgers quote on national TV would have prompted at least some action.

I think the ref only checked one (1) ball and the Patriots knew that's what he would ask for and he would just ask them to hand him a ball, which meant they could cherry pick the only in-spec ball. Nobody tampered with the balls after because they didn't need to. Brady had 11 balls he liked. Whether he did or didn't know they were out of spec, I doubt we'll ever know.

 
Another question would be...

Do the Patriots find this to be a distraction?

... or motivation?

Last time they were acused of cheating the went on to an undefeated regular season, rolling over opponents and "running up" the score.
Yeah....but they lost the one that REALLY counted.

 
Pretty obvious the league is not going to come out with their findings until after the Super Bowl. I suspect they do think something serious happened only because the league could have made this go away rather quickly had they wanted to. And although record numbers will likely still turn into the game, I doubt the league likes this cloud over the game (and the continued media circus that will be part of all the Q and A sessions).

 
This is such a huge national story the league will have to act on it somehow. The fact remains that all of the Patriot's balls were inflated improperly while the Colt balls were not.

 
Still no new evidence and I am seeing lots of testimonials and videos that show the PSI in the balls drop big time when you take them from a 70 degree room to a 48 degree field. I'm not going to get into semantics but there are plenty of plausible scientific scenarios being made out there by physics professors that know a hell of a lot more about this than you or I do that exonerate the Pats. I believe these guys over Peter King.

The more I see about the lack of evidence and the temperature factor the more I see the Pats skating. I am not saying they are innocent but I don't see the smoking inflating needle. Most likely they filled the balls in some 80 degree room to 12.5 psi or so prior to inspection before the game and the Colts balls were inflated outside to most likely 14 psi or so because they knew they wanted them to be up to pressure when the testing started and stay within limits at halftime (f'ing rats but who cares). The Pats wanted the opposite and knew they would drop a couple of psi when they hit the colder air.

Gamesmanship yes, but cheating no. There is no rule that says you have to fill the ball with a specific temp of air. Anyone who refutes this scenario is either a blind hater or just ignorant. It has already been proven to be possible on plenty of youtube videos, just do your own search.

I think the likelihood of human involvement of deflating after the initial refs inspection is far less likely than the scenario I posted above. And I think Brady and possibly BB had complete knowledge of how to manipulate the balls for the given conditions.There is no way they are dumb enough to have someone manipulate them with a needle after the fact.

Call them cheaters or whatever you wish but they are not stupid and they found a way around another rule .Problem is that it's not against the rules. Either way even if they are exonerated we all know they will be guilty in the court of public opinion forever. And of course I'm sure they are the only ones in the league who have ever figured out how to do this as it's so difficult to come up with.

Short of some hard physical evidence or confession there isn't going to be any penalty. The league will have to start filling up and furnishing the balls themselves like they should have been doing all along. Much ado about nothing.
So smart enough to be up front and make Harbaugh look bad on the in- eligible player thing but not smart enough to just come out and say, " hey, filled ours to spec indoors....within the rules"? Don't buy it
 
Here's the official rules on the ball:

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/5_2013_Ball.pdf

Rule 2 The Ball
Section 1
BALL DIMENSIONS
The Ball must be a “Wilson,” hand selected, bearing the signature of the Commissioner of the League, Roger Goodell.
The ball shall be made up of an inflated (12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case
(natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind. It shall have the form of a prolate spheroid and the size and weight
shall be: long axis, 11 to 11 1/4 inches; long circumference, 28 to 28 1/2 inches; short circumference, 21 to 21 1/4 inches;
weight, 14 to 15 ounces.
The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications. A pump is to be
furnished by the home club, and the balls shall remain under the supervision of the Referee until they are delivered to the
ball attendant just prior to the start of the game.

Section 2
BALL SUPPLY
Each team will make 12 primary balls available for testing by the Referee two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of
the game to meet League requirements. The home team will also make 12 backup balls available for testing in all
stadiums. In addition, the visitors, at their discretion, may bring 12 backup balls to be tested by the Referee for games
held in outdoor stadiums. For all games, eight new footballs, sealed in a special box and shipped by the manufacturer to
the Referee, will be opened in the officials’ locker room two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game.
These balls are to be specially marked by the Referee and used exclusively for the kicking game.
In the event a home team ball does not conform to specifications, or its supply is exhausted, the Referee shall secure a proper
ball from the visitors and, failing that, use the best available ball. Any such circumstances must be reported to the
Commissioner.
In case of rain or a wet, muddy, or slippery field, a playable ball shall be used at the request of the offensive team’s center.
The Game Clock shall not stop for such action (unless undue delay occurs).
Note: It is the responsibility of the home team to furnish playable balls at all times by attendants from either side of the playing
field.
I'd like to point out that nowhere does this state that the referee is obliged to use a meter to confirm compliance. I would think that the meter would often, or even mostly, be for when the ref thought the ball was borderline too hard or too soft.

That the league is letting this hang over their championship game is bad. Which would you say could have more of an effect the outcome of a game? Footballs underinflated by a pound or two, or a great big honking scandal looming over one of the teams?

They could still shut it down right quick if they would just say that unless the referee thinks they feel wrong, the balls aren't put on a meter. Why? Because it's just not that big of a deal, despite what Mark frigging Brunell says.

I found the rule while searching through this big bloody thread to find a link to where a former referee says it was normal to not use a meter in the pregame test. If anyone can help me out with that, or the name of the referee I would still appreciate it.

Edit: Also, given what we've learned about how ball pressure seems to go up and down like a yo-yo based on temperature, how much good does it even do to meter them pregame?


 
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Why is the NFL dragging their feet on reporting their findings?

I suspect they are not sure how to tell the public that their ref in charge didn't pressure test the footballs with a gauge before the game.

People would be up in arms .... Patriot haters would cry "fix".

Or is it my theory (yes, mine :thumbup: ) of the Pats using hot air to inflate the balls would be another scenario that would explain pressure loss without "altering" the footballs.

If this if found to be the case, what can the NFL do?

a) The Patriots supplied balls that met league specifications and were approved for play by NFL officials.

b) The balls were not altered at any time.

How could the NFL penalize a team for this?
The balls would have to be very hot and maintain that temperature for that to happen, so it's highly implausible. That being said, the Patriots would be just as guilty because they would be violating the spirit of the rule.

 
the Patriots would be just as guilty because they would be violating the spirit of the rule.
Especially since if they did it they've now lied about it.

Love how people are completely ignoring reports that the refs checked the balls with a gauge this time in favor of all kinds of other reports not related to this game.

IMO the Colts and/or Ravens figured out what the Pats were doing with the balls. Tipped the league off and now they've been caught red-handed. Only question left is how much evidence they can gather and who takes the fall. But they aren't going to skate at this point.

 
the Patriots would be just as guilty because they would be violating the spirit of the rule.
Especially since if they did it they've now lied about it.

Love how people are completely ignoring reports that the refs checked the balls with a gauge this time in favor of all kinds of other reports not related to this game.

IMO the Colts and/or Ravens figured out what the Pats were doing with the balls. Tipped the league off and now they've been caught red-handed. Only question left is how much evidence they can gather and who takes the fall. But they aren't going to skate at this point.
There are no reports confirming that and even if they did check them with a guage it has already been proven that the PSI can drop from the temp outside. Were the balls inflated with the same temp of air, and were they all inflated to the same exact PSI? Were the Colts balls 1psi higher going in? You know that is within the rules? And what were the psi's of the balls at half time?

Lots of speculation and no proof. Go ahead and believe all the mediots that have it all figured out. They could easily skate, and yes they could be charged. No one knows, not you, me or the idiots on tv. Slow your roll til you actually have some verification of evidence and not just a bunch of speculation.

 
Still no new evidence and I am seeing lots of testimonials and videos that show the PSI in the balls drop big time when you take them from a 70 degree room to a 48 degree field. I'm not going to get into semantics but there are plenty of plausible scientific scenarios being made out there by physics professors that know a hell of a lot more about this than you or I do that exonerate the Pats. I believe these guys over Peter King.

The more I see about the lack of evidence and the temperature factor the more I see the Pats skating. I am not saying they are innocent but I don't see the smoking inflating needle. Most likely they filled the balls in some 80 degree room to 12.5 psi or so prior to inspection before the game and the Colts balls were inflated outside to most likely 14 psi or so because they knew they wanted them to be up to pressure when the testing started and stay within limits at halftime (f'ing rats but who cares). The Pats wanted the opposite and knew they would drop a couple of psi when they hit the colder air.

Gamesmanship yes, but cheating no. There is no rule that says you have to fill the ball with a specific temp of air. Anyone who refutes this scenario is either a blind hater or just ignorant. It has already been proven to be possible on plenty of youtube videos, just do your own search.

I think the likelihood of human involvement of deflating after the initial refs inspection is far less likely than the scenario I posted above. And I think Brady and possibly BB had complete knowledge of how to manipulate the balls for the given conditions.There is no way they are dumb enough to have someone manipulate them with a needle after the fact.

Call them cheaters or whatever you wish but they are not stupid and they found a way around another rule .Problem is that it's not against the rules. Either way even if they are exonerated we all know they will be guilty in the court of public opinion forever. And of course I'm sure they are the only ones in the league who have ever figured out how to do this as it's so difficult to come up with.

Short of some hard physical evidence or confession there isn't going to be any penalty. The league will have to start filling up and furnishing the balls themselves like they should have been doing all along. Much ado about nothing.
first of all, there is hard evidence of cheating. 11 of 12 patriots balls were found to be at least 2 psi below the acceptable limit. That's hard evidence of cheating.

Second of all, room temperature is a pretty standard assumption. The rule books shouldn't have to spell this out.

Thirdly, if they were to inflate the balls to 12.5 psi at 80 dF, the balls would have to maintain this temperature throughout the entire measuring process. If their temp dropped to abmient room temp over the course of filling, delivering to officials, and and waiting for the officials to do their job, the pressure of the balls would have dropped to 11.9 psi, below the legal limit. Per all reports, that's not what was observed.

Fourth, if they did find some way to deliver warmed balls to the refs with the intent to provide deflated balls in-game, that is purposefully tampering the balls and is cheating. Ultimately, it's EXACTLY the same as having a guy with a needle deflating post-inspection. The end result is exactly the same (deflated balls in game), your intent was the same, and both balls would have passed inspection. If that's what they did, it takes just as much cover-up, and just as much fore-thought.

 
the Patriots would be just as guilty because they would be violating the spirit of the rule.
Especially since if they did it they've now lied about it.

Love how people are completely ignoring reports that the refs checked the balls with a gauge this time in favor of all kinds of other reports not related to this game.

IMO the Colts and/or Ravens figured out what the Pats were doing with the balls. Tipped the league off and now they've been caught red-handed. Only question left is how much evidence they can gather and who takes the fall. But they aren't going to skate at this point.
There are no reports confirming that and even if they did check them with a guage it has already been proven that the PSI can drop from the temp outside. Were the balls inflated with the same temp of air, and were they all inflated to the same exact PSI? Were the Colts balls 1psi higher going in? You know that is within the rules? And what were the psi's of the balls at half time?

Lots of speculation and no proof. Go ahead and believe all the mediots that have it all figured out. They could easily skate, and yes they could be charged. No one knows, not you, me or the idiots on tv. Slow your roll til you actually have some verification of evidence and not just a bunch of speculation.
yesterdays Boston Globe. I've already posted the link and pertinent parpagraphs at least 3 times in this thread, I'm not going to do it again.

 
the Patriots would be just as guilty because they would be violating the spirit of the rule.
Especially since if they did it they've now lied about it.

Love how people are completely ignoring reports that the refs checked the balls with a gauge this time in favor of all kinds of other reports not related to this game.

IMO the Colts and/or Ravens figured out what the Pats were doing with the balls. Tipped the league off and now they've been caught red-handed. Only question left is how much evidence they can gather and who takes the fall. But they aren't going to skate at this point.
Love how Brady and Bellichicks reports (uh...not reports, actual statements) that they didn't mess with the balls are completely ignored. Love how people make this into an enormous deal when it's not, and make judgement of guilt, at this point, with no proof. Haters will hate the Pats no matter what, proof or not. The "only question" left is how the Colts were beat 28-0 in the 2nd half with the "good" footballs, it's a true mystery!

 
It bothers me that we are all using such generic measurements here.

The balls were all 12.5. All of them were? Really?

The Patriots balls were found to be 2 pounds under spec. All of them were exactly 2 pounds? Seriously?

It's a makeshift, non-technical measurement done to provide a basic level of air pressure inside the footballs. The NFL obviously doesn't keep records of it or keep track of what exactly is done.

If you throw in the weather potentially causing significant changes in PSI, you have the makings of the NFL being in a situation where they can't prove ANYTHING....yet they've allowed a story to blow up bigger than any NFL story in years.
lets not bring numbers, facts, and logic into this.
In all seriousness, you could make the case that the control of the footballs was monitored the entire time because of previous complaints and that's why the refs and the league have a firm grasp on exactly what went down.
Very possible. Been thinking that myself. If it was an elaborate sting operation, then the NFL undoubtedly would have been watching the ball boys like a hawk, perhaps even filming them the entire time. It doesn't sound like that happened, or else the NFL is just playing dumb in an attempt to trap someone.
 
the Patriots would be just as guilty because they would be violating the spirit of the rule.
Especially since if they did it they've now lied about it.

Love how people are completely ignoring reports that the refs checked the balls with a gauge this time in favor of all kinds of other reports not related to this game.

IMO the Colts and/or Ravens figured out what the Pats were doing with the balls. Tipped the league off and now they've been caught red-handed. Only question left is how much evidence they can gather and who takes the fall. But they aren't going to skate at this point.
Love how Brady and Bellichicks reports (uh...not reports, actual statements) that they didn't mess with the balls are completely ignored. Love how people make this into an enormous deal when it's not, and make judgement of guilt, at this point, with no proof. Haters will hate the Pats no matter what, proof or not. The "only question" left is how the Colts were beat 28-0 in the 2nd half with the "good" footballs, it's a true mystery!
I believe neither Brady nor Belichick tampered with the balls. I believe someone in the Pats organization did, and has been doing so for years.

 
Why is the NFL dragging their feet on reporting their findings?

I suspect they are not sure how to tell the public that their ref in charge didn't pressure test the footballs with a gauge before the game.

People would be up in arms .... Patriot haters would cry "fix".

Or is it my theory (yes, mine :thumbup: ) of the Pats using hot air to inflate the balls would be another scenario that would explain pressure loss without "altering" the footballs.

If this if found to be the case, what can the NFL do?

a) The Patriots supplied balls that met league specifications and were approved for play by NFL officials.

b) The balls were not altered at any time.

How could the NFL penalize a team for this?
The balls would have to be very hot and maintain that temperature for that to happen, so it's highly implausible.
Exactly. That hot air would cool down REAL quick.

 
Still no new evidence and I am seeing lots of testimonials and videos that show the PSI in the balls drop big time when you take them from a 70 degree room to a 48 degree field. I'm not going to get into semantics but there are plenty of plausible scientific scenarios being made out there by physics professors that know a hell of a lot more about this than you or I do that exonerate the Pats. I believe these guys over Peter King.

The more I see about the lack of evidence and the temperature factor the more I see the Pats skating. I am not saying they are innocent but I don't see the smoking inflating needle. Most likely they filled the balls in some 80 degree room to 12.5 psi or so prior to inspection before the game and the Colts balls were inflated outside to most likely 14 psi or so because they knew they wanted them to be up to pressure when the testing started and stay within limits at halftime (f'ing rats but who cares). The Pats wanted the opposite and knew they would drop a couple of psi when they hit the colder air.

Gamesmanship yes, but cheating no. There is no rule that says you have to fill the ball with a specific temp of air. Anyone who refutes this scenario is either a blind hater or just ignorant. It has already been proven to be possible on plenty of youtube videos, just do your own search.

I think the likelihood of human involvement of deflating after the initial refs inspection is far less likely than the scenario I posted above. And I think Brady and possibly BB had complete knowledge of how to manipulate the balls for the given conditions.There is no way they are dumb enough to have someone manipulate them with a needle after the fact.

Call them cheaters or whatever you wish but they are not stupid and they found a way around another rule .Problem is that it's not against the rules. Either way even if they are exonerated we all know they will be guilty in the court of public opinion forever. And of course I'm sure they are the only ones in the league who have ever figured out how to do this as it's so difficult to come up with.

Short of some hard physical evidence or confession there isn't going to be any penalty. The league will have to start filling up and furnishing the balls themselves like they should have been doing all along. Much ado about nothing.
first of all, there is hard evidence of cheating. 11 of 12 patriots balls were found to be at least 2 psi below the acceptable limit. That's hard evidence of cheating.

Second of all, room temperature is a pretty standard assumption. The rule books shouldn't have to spell this out.

Thirdly, if they were to inflate the balls to 12.5 psi at 80 dF, the balls would have to maintain this temperature throughout the entire measuring process. If their temp dropped to abmient room temp over the course of filling, delivering to officials, and and waiting for the officials to do their job, the pressure of the balls would have dropped to 11.9 psi, below the legal limit. Per all reports, that's not what was observed.

Fourth, if they did find some way to deliver warmed balls to the refs with the intent to provide deflated balls in-game, that is purposefully tampering the balls and is cheating. Ultimately, it's EXACTLY the same as having a guy with a needle deflating post-inspection. The end result is exactly the same (deflated balls in game), your intent was the same, and both balls would have passed inspection. If that's what they did, it takes just as much cover-up, and just as much fore-thought.
No sorry, it may be bad, and could still be considered cheating, but no it is not exactly the same thing as modifying the ball after it has been checked. Its all bad, just different degrees imho.

 
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Still no new evidence and I am seeing lots of testimonials and videos that show the PSI in the balls drop big time when you take them from a 70 degree room to a 48 degree field. I'm not going to get into semantics but there are plenty of plausible scientific scenarios being made out there by physics professors that know a hell of a lot more about this than you or I do that exonerate the Pats. I believe these guys over Peter King.

The more I see about the lack of evidence and the temperature factor the more I see the Pats skating. I am not saying they are innocent but I don't see the smoking inflating needle. Most likely they filled the balls in some 80 degree room to 12.5 psi or so prior to inspection before the game and the Colts balls were inflated outside to most likely 14 psi or so because they knew they wanted them to be up to pressure when the testing started and stay within limits at halftime (f'ing rats but who cares). The Pats wanted the opposite and knew they would drop a couple of psi when they hit the colder air.

Gamesmanship yes, but cheating no. There is no rule that says you have to fill the ball with a specific temp of air. Anyone who refutes this scenario is either a blind hater or just ignorant. It has already been proven to be possible on plenty of youtube videos, just do your own search.

I think the likelihood of human involvement of deflating after the initial refs inspection is far less likely than the scenario I posted above. And I think Brady and possibly BB had complete knowledge of how to manipulate the balls for the given conditions.There is no way they are dumb enough to have someone manipulate them with a needle after the fact.

Call them cheaters or whatever you wish but they are not stupid and they found a way around another rule .Problem is that it's not against the rules. Either way even if they are exonerated we all know they will be guilty in the court of public opinion forever. And of course I'm sure they are the only ones in the league who have ever figured out how to do this as it's so difficult to come up with.

Short of some hard physical evidence or confession there isn't going to be any penalty. The league will have to start filling up and furnishing the balls themselves like they should have been doing all along. Much ado about nothing.
first of all, there is hard evidence of cheating. 11 of 12 patriots balls were found to be at least 2 psi below the acceptable limit. That's hard evidence of cheating. Second of all, room temperature is a pretty standard assumption. The rule books shouldn't have to spell this out.

Thirdly, if they were to inflate the balls to 12.5 psi at 80 dF, the balls would have to maintain this temperature throughout the entire measuring process. If their temp dropped to abmient room temp over the course of filling, delivering to officials, and and waiting for the officials to do their job, the pressure of the balls would have dropped to 11.9 psi, below the legal limit. Per all reports, that's not what was observed.

Fourth, if they did find some way to deliver warmed balls to the refs with the intent to provide deflated balls in-game, that is purposefully tampering the balls and is cheating. Ultimately, it's EXACTLY the same as having a guy with a needle deflating post-inspection. The end result is exactly the same (deflated balls in game), your intent was the same, and both balls would have passed inspection. If that's what they did, it takes just as much cover-up, and just as much fore-thought.
What a joke you are. I suppose then you have the same indignation against Aaron Rodgers for knowingly submitting balls above legal spec knowing that some of them would get past inspection into the game? You Pats haters are hypocrites of the highest order.
 
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Mark Brunell, Jerome Bettis, and other former NFL players have said they do not believe the balls were tampered with without Brady's knowledge.

Brady gained a competitive advantage by using balls below the legal inflation level. Brady is not a unbiased party. He very much has a tremendous incentive to be dishonest. So, his statements really don't matter. By far, the preponderance of the evidence indicates that the footballs were intentionally deflated with Brady's knowledge.

The punishment should reflect deflation of the footballs with Brady's knowledge.

 
the Patriots would be just as guilty because they would be violating the spirit of the rule.
Especially since if they did it they've now lied about it.

Love how people are completely ignoring reports that the refs checked the balls with a gauge this time in favor of all kinds of other reports not related to this game.

IMO the Colts and/or Ravens figured out what the Pats were doing with the balls. Tipped the league off and now they've been caught red-handed. Only question left is how much evidence they can gather and who takes the fall. But they aren't going to skate at this point.
Because there is NO such report as yet that the balls were checked pregame with a gauge. King reported that the balls were checked at halftime with a gauge...and that they were checked post game with a gauge but all he says about the pregame inspection is that they are within the psi range. I realize that the only way to know that they are within range is to use a gauge so I know this is gonna be seen as splitting hairs but the reality is all we have for known facts are what is on the deflategate wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeflateGate. I strongly recommend anyone posting to read that page and compare it to the 67 pages in this thread since its instructive of the vast diff between facts and rumor/conjecture/theories/misinformation that is contained within these 67 pages (and counting). Nothing wrong with rumor, conjecture and theories but we all need to be careful about what we are ALL passing off as "facts" because the fact is we just don't have that many.

 
If i'm the Pats, I play hardball. I come out swinging after the super bowl. The NFL needs to prove it. Pretty shameful the way they've allowed Brady to be treated. If you asked most people last Sunday who the greatest QB in NFL history was, you'd get a lot of analysts who would say Brady. Yet they are letting his legacy potentially be seriously damaged, and have yet to provide a single bit of proof of anything.
Unless of course, we are asked to just believe everything the NFL says. Which....I think we've learned is a bad idea.
Say what now?

 
Still no new evidence and I am seeing lots of testimonials and videos that show the PSI in the balls drop big time when you take them from a 70 degree room to a 48 degree field. I'm not going to get into semantics but there are plenty of plausible scientific scenarios being made out there by physics professors that know a hell of a lot more about this than you or I do that exonerate the Pats. I believe these guys over Peter King.

The more I see about the lack of evidence and the temperature factor the more I see the Pats skating. I am not saying they are innocent but I don't see the smoking inflating needle. Most likely they filled the balls in some 80 degree room to 12.5 psi or so prior to inspection before the game and the Colts balls were inflated outside to most likely 14 psi or so because they knew they wanted them to be up to pressure when the testing started and stay within limits at halftime (f'ing rats but who cares). The Pats wanted the opposite and knew they would drop a couple of psi when they hit the colder air.

Gamesmanship yes, but cheating no. There is no rule that says you have to fill the ball with a specific temp of air. Anyone who refutes this scenario is either a blind hater or just ignorant. It has already been proven to be possible on plenty of youtube videos, just do your own search.

I think the likelihood of human involvement of deflating after the initial refs inspection is far less likely than the scenario I posted above. And I think Brady and possibly BB had complete knowledge of how to manipulate the balls for the given conditions.There is no way they are dumb enough to have someone manipulate them with a needle after the fact.

Call them cheaters or whatever you wish but they are not stupid and they found a way around another rule .Problem is that it's not against the rules. Either way even if they are exonerated we all know they will be guilty in the court of public opinion forever. And of course I'm sure they are the only ones in the league who have ever figured out how to do this as it's so difficult to come up with.

Short of some hard physical evidence or confession there isn't going to be any penalty. The league will have to start filling up and furnishing the balls themselves like they should have been doing all along. Much ado about nothing.
first of all, there is hard evidence of cheating. 11 of 12 patriots balls were found to be at least 2 psi below the acceptable limit. That's hard evidence of cheating. Second of all, room temperature is a pretty standard assumption. The rule books shouldn't have to spell this out.

Thirdly, if they were to inflate the balls to 12.5 psi at 80 dF, the balls would have to maintain this temperature throughout the entire measuring process. If their temp dropped to abmient room temp over the course of filling, delivering to officials, and and waiting for the officials to do their job, the pressure of the balls would have dropped to 11.9 psi, below the legal limit. Per all reports, that's not what was observed.

Fourth, if they did find some way to deliver warmed balls to the refs with the intent to provide deflated balls in-game, that is purposefully tampering the balls and is cheating. Ultimately, it's EXACTLY the same as having a guy with a needle deflating post-inspection. The end result is exactly the same (deflated balls in game), your intent was the same, and both balls would have passed inspection. If that's what they did, it takes just as much cover-up, and just as much fore-thought.
What a joke you are. I suppose then you have the same indignation against Aaron Rodgers for knowingly submitting balls above legal spec knowing that some of them would get past inspection into the game? You Pats haters are hypocrites of the highest order.
Actually, I find that to be the only pickle the NFL finds itself in--if you are going to enforce this on one team it needs to be evenly applied across all teams, period.

Side note, if I were you I wouldn't be calling anyone a "joke". I don't always agree with moleculo but I find him to have well-rounded thoughts, which is much better than I can say for a vast majority of posters here.

 
Mark Brunell, Jerome Bettis, and other former NFL players have said they do not believe the balls were tampered with without Brady's knowledge.

Brady gained a competitive advantage by using balls below the legal inflation level. Brady is not a unbiased party. He very much has a tremendous incentive to be dishonest. So, his statements really don't matter. By far, the preponderance of the evidence indicates that the footballs were intentionally deflated with Brady's knowledge.

The punishment should reflect deflation of the footballs with Brady's knowledge.
oh, well if they said it then it must be true. No need for further information.

 
the Patriots would be just as guilty because they would be violating the spirit of the rule.
Especially since if they did it they've now lied about it.

Love how people are completely ignoring reports that the refs checked the balls with a gauge this time in favor of all kinds of other reports not related to this game.

IMO the Colts and/or Ravens figured out what the Pats were doing with the balls. Tipped the league off and now they've been caught red-handed. Only question left is how much evidence they can gather and who takes the fall. But they aren't going to skate at this point.
Because there is NO such report as yet that the balls were checked pregame with a gauge. King reported that the balls were checked at halftime with a gauge...and that they were checked post game with a gauge but all he says about the pregame inspection is that they are within the psi range. I realize that the only way to know that they are within range is to use a gauge so I know this is gonna be seen as splitting hairs but the reality is all we have for known facts are what is on the deflategate wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeflateGate. I strongly recommend anyone posting to read that page and compare it to the 67 pages in this thread since its instructive of the vast diff between facts and rumor/conjecture/theories/misinformation that is contained within these 67 pages (and counting). Nothing wrong with rumor, conjecture and theories but we all need to be careful about what we are ALL passing off as "facts" because the fact is we just don't have that many.
yesterdays boston globe story.

 
Why is the NFL dragging their feet on reporting their findings?

I suspect they are not sure how to tell the public that their ref in charge didn't pressure test the footballs with a gauge before the game.

People would be up in arms .... Patriot haters would cry "fix".

Or is it my theory (yes, mine :thumbup: ) of the Pats using hot air to inflate the balls would be another scenario that would explain pressure loss without "altering" the footballs.

If this if found to be the case, what can the NFL do?

a) The Patriots supplied balls that met league specifications and were approved for play by NFL officials.

b) The balls were not altered at any time.

How could the NFL penalize a team for this?
The balls would have to be very hot and maintain that temperature for that to happen, so it's highly implausible.
Exactly. That hot air would cool down REAL quick.
You realize they could fill the balls 5 mins before the refs checked them and they were most likely checked inside the stadium where the temp would be warm. To dismiss the possibility of the elements being the reason for this is wishful thinking.

It has already been proven possible.

Like it or not the psi is very much effected by temp. and we don't even know the pressures of any of the balls going into the game or the temp of the air they were filled with? Do you really think they are going to be able to prove the Pats filled them with hot air? What, did they take the air temp of the balls too?

They were within limits, so the Pats could have been 12.5 and the Colts 13.5 at the refs test.

The bottom line is no one knows sheit and there is no guarantee of anything at this point. I like how people have already come up with absolutes regarding guilt and involvement when there is no evidence besides some under inflated balls. Oh that's right that is the only evidence we need for conviction. GL with that.

If they are convicted there will be more evidence forthcoming and that will be the deciding factor. There has been nothing as of yet that proves guilt regardless of the masses wanting it. There may or may not be enough evidence down the road for punishment but no one as of today knows either way. Not Peter King, Jay Glazer , Bill O'Reilly or most of all you the internet,know it all, wise guy.

 
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the Patriots would be just as guilty because they would be violating the spirit of the rule.
Especially since if they did it they've now lied about it.

Love how people are completely ignoring reports that the refs checked the balls with a gauge this time in favor of all kinds of other reports not related to this game.

IMO the Colts and/or Ravens figured out what the Pats were doing with the balls. Tipped the league off and now they've been caught red-handed. Only question left is how much evidence they can gather and who takes the fall. But they aren't going to skate at this point.
Because there is NO such report as yet that the balls were checked pregame with a gauge. King reported that the balls were checked at halftime with a gauge...and that they were checked post game with a gauge but all he says about the pregame inspection is that they are within the psi range. I realize that the only way to know that they are within range is to use a gauge so I know this is gonna be seen as splitting hairs but the reality is all we have for known facts are what is on the deflategate wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeflateGate. I strongly recommend anyone posting to read that page and compare it to the 67 pages in this thread since its instructive of the vast diff between facts and rumor/conjecture/theories/misinformation that is contained within these 67 pages (and counting). Nothing wrong with rumor, conjecture and theories but we all need to be careful about what we are ALL passing off as "facts" because the fact is we just don't have that many.
yesterdays boston globe story.
If the balls were checked at halftime with a gauge and all the Pats ball were underinflated, then someone still tampered with them.

 
Why is the NFL dragging their feet on reporting their findings?

I suspect they are not sure how to tell the public that their ref in charge didn't pressure test the footballs with a gauge before the game.

People would be up in arms .... Patriot haters would cry "fix".

Or is it my theory (yes, mine :thumbup: ) of the Pats using hot air to inflate the balls would be another scenario that would explain pressure loss without "altering" the footballs.

If this if found to be the case, what can the NFL do?

a) The Patriots supplied balls that met league specifications and were approved for play by NFL officials.

b) The balls were not altered at any time.

How could the NFL penalize a team for this?
They have no problem admitting wrong calls on the field....why would this be any different? Why would the NFL want this story around the week before and leading into the SuperBowl? If they wanted to put the kibosh on it...they'd just say that they did a cursory look before the game, things appeared right and they did a more in depth look at halftime. The level of griping and complaining about "fixes" being in would be miniscule to the level of griping and complaining that fix is in after this past week if the Pats are exonerated.

Per a local radio station, the analysist thought that the NFL's silence more mirrored that of the Bountygate situation; where the NFL wanted to collected more info before it confronted Sean Peyton.

 
You realize they could fill the balls 5 mins before the refs checked them and they were most likely checked inside the stadium where the temp would be warm.
that is still tampering with an intent to deceive. IDENTICAL to using a needle to deflate post inspection. Same intent, same result.

 
the Patriots would be just as guilty because they would be violating the spirit of the rule.
Especially since if they did it they've now lied about it.

Love how people are completely ignoring reports that the refs checked the balls with a gauge this time in favor of all kinds of other reports not related to this game.

IMO the Colts and/or Ravens figured out what the Pats were doing with the balls. Tipped the league off and now they've been caught red-handed. Only question left is how much evidence they can gather and who takes the fall. But they aren't going to skate at this point.
Because there is NO such report as yet that the balls were checked pregame with a gauge. King reported that the balls were checked at halftime with a gauge...and that they were checked post game with a gauge but all he says about the pregame inspection is that they are within the psi range. I realize that the only way to know that they are within range is to use a gauge so I know this is gonna be seen as splitting hairs but the reality is all we have for known facts are what is on the deflategate wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeflateGate. I strongly recommend anyone posting to read that page and compare it to the 67 pages in this thread since its instructive of the vast diff between facts and rumor/conjecture/theories/misinformation that is contained within these 67 pages (and counting). Nothing wrong with rumor, conjecture and theories but we all need to be careful about what we are ALL passing off as "facts" because the fact is we just don't have that many.
yesterdays boston globe story.
If the balls were checked at halftime with a gauge and all the Pats ball were underinflated, then someone still tampered with them.
Yes, because we all know by now they couldn't have lost psi from any other way. You know all the NFL forensics people that were hired have already confirmed this. Oh wait,they haven't released that statement yet but just the same you are assuming that as fact. I believe you as I know you are a physics major and have already spent countless hours debunking the possibility. Thanks for your efforts.

 
Believe I read this right on the ESPN crawl yesterday. Was a summary from NFL saying they have talked to about 40 people but no NFL players. When they talk to an NFL player a union rep would need to be present. If that's right no way this gets settled until way after the Super Bowl.

 
Why is the NFL dragging their feet on reporting their findings?

I suspect they are not sure how to tell the public that their ref in charge didn't pressure test the footballs with a gauge before the game.

People would be up in arms .... Patriot haters would cry "fix".

Or is it my theory (yes, mine :thumbup: ) of the Pats using hot air to inflate the balls would be another scenario that would explain pressure loss without "altering" the footballs.

If this if found to be the case, what can the NFL do?

a) The Patriots supplied balls that met league specifications and were approved for play by NFL officials.

b) The balls were not altered at any time.

How could the NFL penalize a team for this?
They have no problem admitting wrong calls on the field....why would this be any different? Why would the NFL want this story around the week before and leading into the SuperBowl? If they wanted to put the kibosh on it...they'd just say that they did a cursory look before the game, things appeared right and they did a more in depth look at halftime. The level of griping and complaining about "fixes" being in would be miniscule to the level of griping and complaining that fix is in after this past week if the Pats are exonerated.

Per a local radio station, the analysist thought that the NFL's silence more mirrored that of the Bountygate situation; where the NFL wanted to collected more info before it confronted Sean Peyton.
Well that settles it, you know if a local radio station analyst said it then it must be true.

 
Because there is NO such report as yet that the balls were checked pregame with a gauge. King reported that the balls were checked at halftime with a gauge...and that they were checked post game with a gauge but all he says about the pregame inspection is that they are within the psi range.
The Boston Globe reported that the balls were checked with a gauge pre-game and were all within range.

 

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