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Illegal Immigrant sues firefighters who saved his life (1 Viewer)

lawguys, this attorney claims that, in essence, mistakes=negligence. that's not right, is it? A mere mistake doesn't rise to the level of legal negligence.
It can, but it doesn't necessarily. Negligence is generally a mistake that evidences the failure to use reasonable care. If I drop my keys without realizing it and leave them there, that's a mistake. If I do it while I'm standing over an open surgery patient, that's negligence.
What are the odds this guy gets money?

Can immigration come and give him the boot?
This is what I don't get. If we know he is illegal, why is he still here? :confused:
We've decided not to worry about those laws and instead respect the rights of illegal immigrants to file frivolous lawsuits against those who defend and protect them!

 
lawguys, this attorney claims that, in essence, mistakes=negligence. that's not right, is it? A mere mistake doesn't rise to the level of legal negligence.
It can, but it doesn't necessarily. Negligence is generally a mistake that evidences the failure to use reasonable care. If I drop my keys without realizing it and leave them there, that's a mistake. If I do it while I'm standing over an open surgery patient, that's negligence.
What are the odds this guy gets money?

Can immigration come and give him the boot?
1. Depends on how greedy he is. If he's willing to take a small amount to help with his medical bills, probably a reasonable chance.

2. I don't see why not. But based on my experience it's unlikely to happen. Especially while he's embroiled in a lawsuit against the State. It starts to look like the State is using criminal prosecution to gain an advantage in a civil case, which is an ethical violation for attorneys.

 
The thing that troubles me most about this is simply that someone, anyone, is suing a first responder for the way they did their job in a pretty hazardous situation, and especially in a situation where they were not injured but simply had to wait too long. There are legal immunities for police and firefighters so that you essentially can't sue them for police or firefighting "malpractice", simply complaining that they should have done their job "better".

If they injure you through out and out negligence, that's different, but suing because they weren't working fast enough, especially in this situation, seems pretty specious to me.
This is exactly right. What if this leads to individual firefighters or paramedics being sued? Who would want that job with that risk? Their jobs are already tough enough.
A lot of states even have good samaritan laws that will protect people who are assisting others in an emergency. Here's California's version:

California Health and Safety Code Section 1799.1021799.102. (a) No person who in good faith, and not for compensation, renders emergency medical or nonmedical care at the scene of an emergency shall be liable for any civil damages resulting from any act or omission. The scene of an emergency shall not include emergency departments and other places where medical care is usually offered. This subdivision applies only to the medical, law enforcement, and emergency personnel specified in this chapter.
 
I'm kinda hoping the lawyer gets disbarred for this
Seems unlikely.
What about kicked out of the country? Then, when he's traveling with all of his belongings in Mexico, he's swept up by a horrible flood. It takes the Mexican firemen over 4 hours to get to him before he's rescued. So he sues them. But it turns out he is an illegal immigrant to Mexico. Can his Mexican lawyer be disbarred in this highly likely scenario?

 
lawguys, this attorney claims that, in essence, mistakes=negligence. that's not right, is it? A mere mistake doesn't rise to the level of legal negligence.
It can, but it doesn't necessarily. Negligence is generally a mistake that evidences the failure to use reasonable care. If I drop my keys without realizing it and leave them there, that's a mistake. If I do it while I'm standing over an open surgery patient, that's negligence.
What are the odds this guy gets money?

Can immigration come and give him the boot?
1. Depends on how greedy he is. If he's willing to take a small amount to help with his medical bills, probably a reasonable chance.

2. I don't see why not. But based on my experience it's unlikely to happen. Especially while he's embroiled in a lawsuit against the State. It starts to look like the State is using criminal prosecution to gain an advantage in a civil case, which is an ethical violation for attorneys.
:goodposting:

In California, a veritable hotbed for the immigration debate, people involved in civil disputes don't get deported because of the civil disputes. It's the idiots who get into the criminal system who start getting deported.

If this case wasn't in the news, the attorney might have been able to pry a small settlement out of this simply (from the state's persepective) to avoid expenditure of a greater amount of legal fees and costs, at least if he'd survived an early dispositive motion. In truth this shouldn't even survive demurrer or judgment on the pleadings.

 
lawguys, this attorney claims that, in essence, mistakes=negligence. that's not right, is it? A mere mistake doesn't rise to the level of legal negligence.
It can. If the mistake made breached a duty to another and caused damage.
 
I'm kinda hoping the lawyer gets disbarred for this
Unlikely that he'd get disbarred for just this. If it's not a colorable claim he could be subject to other disciplinary sanctions such as public reprimand, suspension, etc.
 
Lawyerguys, help me out here. The article says court papers were filed. Does there have to be any real chance that this lawsuit is successful in order for that step to take place, or is that pretty much a step anyone can accomplish regardless of merit?
We aren't supposed to file complaints that we know are frivolous so the attorney in filing the complaint is standing by the claim that it is viable.

 
Walking Boot said:
TheIronSheik said:
fantasycurse42 said:
Henry Ford said:
oso diablo said:
lawguys, this attorney claims that, in essence, mistakes=negligence. that's not right, is it? A mere mistake doesn't rise to the level of legal negligence.
It can, but it doesn't necessarily. Negligence is generally a mistake that evidences the failure to use reasonable care. If I drop my keys without realizing it and leave them there, that's a mistake. If I do it while I'm standing over an open surgery patient, that's negligence.
What are the odds this guy gets money?

Can immigration come and give him the boot?
This is what I don't get. If we know he is illegal, why is he still here? :confused:
You're not allowed to deport someone just because they're here illegally. You been living in a cave the last 20 years?
I obviously haven't been paying attention. This seems odd to me, though.

 
Henry Ford said:
tommyboy said:
I'm kinda hoping the lawyer gets disbarred for this
Seems unlikely.
I know but I'd still like it. These are the type of frivolous lawsuits that waste a lot of time and money, discourage future beneficial behavior and generally should be thrown out of court on arrival. I would like to see lawyers hold their industry up a bit higher, and when fellow lawyers get sanctioned for this type of behavior I'd think it would deter future frivolous litigation. I know, its a pipe dream.

 
Wasn't there a thread on here from a while ago where a local fire department let some guy's house burn down because that particular owner hadn't paid his bill in forever? If they can do that, why can't they tell this illegal alien, who obviously hasn't contributed a cent toward the fire department, to f*** off?

 
Wasn't there a thread on here from a while ago where a local fire department let some guy's house burn down because that particular owner hadn't paid his bill in forever? If they can do that, why can't they tell this illegal alien, who obviously hasn't contributed a cent toward the fire department, to f*** off?
Fire companies send out bills? Crap. I might be in trouble.

 
TheIronSheik said:
Henry Ford said:
tommyboy said:
I'm kinda hoping the lawyer gets disbarred for this
Seems unlikely.
What about kicked out of the country? Then, when he's traveling with all of his belongings in Mexico, he's swept up by a horrible flood. It takes the Mexican firemen over 4 hours to get to him before he's rescued. So he sues them. But it turns out he is an illegal immigrant to Mexico. Can his Mexican lawyer be disbarred in this highly likely scenario?
Seems highly unlikely.

 
TheIronSheik said:
Henry Ford said:
tommyboy said:
I'm kinda hoping the lawyer gets disbarred for this
Seems unlikely.
What about kicked out of the country? Then, when he's traveling with all of his belongings in Mexico, he's swept up by a horrible flood. It takes the Mexican firemen over 4 hours to get to him before he's rescued. So he sues them. But it turns out he is an illegal immigrant to Mexico. Can his Mexican lawyer be disbarred in this highly likely scenario?
Seems highly unlikely.
Which part? :confused:

 
Wasn't there a thread on here from a while ago where a local fire department let some guy's house burn down because that particular owner hadn't paid his bill in forever? If they can do that, why can't they tell this illegal alien, who obviously hasn't contributed a cent toward the fire department, to f*** off?
Fire companies send out bills? Crap. I might be in trouble.
hah, it was some sort of tax issue maybe? it was definitely a thing...

 
TheIronSheik said:
Henry Ford said:
tommyboy said:
I'm kinda hoping the lawyer gets disbarred for this
Seems unlikely.
What about kicked out of the country? Then, when he's traveling with all of his belongings in Mexico, he's swept up by a horrible flood. It takes the Mexican firemen over 4 hours to get to him before he's rescued. So he sues them. But it turns out he is an illegal immigrant to Mexico. Can his Mexican lawyer be disbarred in this highly likely scenario?
Seems highly unlikely.
Which part? :confused:
A lawyer who gets kicked out of the country would go to Belize.

 
Wasn't there a thread on here from a while ago where a local fire department let some guy's house burn down because that particular owner hadn't paid his bill in forever? If they can do that, why can't they tell this illegal alien, who obviously hasn't contributed a cent toward the fire department, to f*** off?
Fire companies send out bills? Crap. I might be in trouble.
hah, it was some sort of tax issue maybe? it was definitely a thing...
It was a different city FD that residents of the smaller city (or maybe it was just outside the city limits?) could pay a yearly fee to be covered. Don't remember the details...think it was Georgia?

 
Wasn't there a thread on here from a while ago where a local fire department let some guy's house burn down because that particular owner hadn't paid his bill in forever? If they can do that, why can't they tell this illegal alien, who obviously hasn't contributed a cent toward the fire department, to f*** off?
Fire companies send out bills? Crap. I might be in trouble.
hah, it was some sort of tax issue maybe? it was definitely a thing...
It was a different city FD that residents of the smaller city (or maybe it was just outside the city limits?) could pay a yearly fee to be covered. Don't remember the details...think it was Georgia?
Something like a disincorporated town where residents could pay for village coverage IIRC.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39516346/ns/us_news-life/t/no-pay-no-spray-firefighters-let-home-burn/#.VCxg-xYtpI0

 
Wasn't there a thread on here from a while ago where a local fire department let some guy's house burn down because that particular owner hadn't paid his bill in forever? If they can do that, why can't they tell this illegal alien, who obviously hasn't contributed a cent toward the fire department, to f*** off?
How is this obvious?
 
TheIronSheik said:
Henry Ford said:
tommyboy said:
I'm kinda hoping the lawyer gets disbarred for this
Seems unlikely.
What about kicked out of the country? Then, when he's traveling with all of his belongings in Mexico, he's swept up by a horrible flood. It takes the Mexican firemen over 4 hours to get to him before he's rescued. So he sues them. But it turns out he is an illegal immigrant to Mexico. Can his Mexican lawyer be disbarred in this highly likely scenario?
Seems highly unlikely.
Which part? :confused:
A lawyer who gets kicked out of the country would go to Belize.
Oh. OK. That makes sense then.

 
TheIronSheik said:
Henry Ford said:
tommyboy said:
I'm kinda hoping the lawyer gets disbarred for this
Seems unlikely.
What about kicked out of the country? Then, when he's traveling with all of his belongings in Mexico, he's swept up by a horrible flood. It takes the Mexican firemen over 4 hours to get to him before he's rescued. So he sues them. But it turns out he is an illegal immigrant to Mexico. Can his Mexican lawyer be disbarred in this highly likely scenario?
Seems highly unlikely.
Which part? :confused:
A lawyer who gets kicked out of the country would go to Belize.
Oh. OK. That makes sense then.
Women in Mexico

Women in Belize

 
What does his immigration status have to do with anything?
It depends on your position with regard to illegal immigration. I don't think we should be obligated to provide the same level of services to people who are here illegally that we provide to those who are here legally.
Good point. They should have left him there until he was able to prove his immigration status.
Of course that could go the other way too, like say jonessed was trapped neck deep in a sewer, and the only person around was an illegal to save him.

I'd tell the illegal to not bother, since jonessed is always neck deep in a sewer here in the FFA.

 
Lawyerguys, help me out here. The article says court papers were filed. Does there have to be any real chance that this lawsuit is successful in order for that step to take place, or is that pretty much a step anyone can accomplish regardless of merit?
We aren't supposed to file complaints that we know are frivolous so the attorney in filing the complaint is standing by the claim that it is viable.
The variable here is that I don't know what Colorado law says about this. Also, just because his case fails, even if it's thrown out at the pleading stage, it doesn't necessarily mean he should be reprimanded. The claim might be arguably colorable depending upon what hte law in CO is.

Don't get me wrong though - my personal opinion is this guy's an ####### for bringing this lawsuit. A good attorney would tell this sort of client to take a walk.
 
What does his immigration status have to do with anything?
It depends on your position with regard to illegal immigration. I don't think we should be obligated to provide the same level of services to people who are here illegally that we provide to those who are here legally.
Good point. They should have left him there until he was able to prove his immigration status.
Of course that could go the other way too, like say jonessed was trapped neck deep in a sewer, and the only person around was an illegal to save him.

I'd tell the illegal to not bother, since jonessed is always neck deep in a sewer here in the FFA.
You need to practice your put-downs. That is terrible.

 
Sand, nowhere in that article does it state that Ortiz is from Mexico.

And it doesn't matter. It's completely irrelevant how he got here. Now that he's here, he has every right to sue, and NOT to be deported. (We shouldn't deport anyone except those who have committed felonies). If he wants to be a scumbag and sue the fire department, that's his business. I hope he loses, badly. I wish he and his attorney would have to pay a fine for suing in the first place. But let's stop bringing up his legal status.
WTF are you talking about??? So as long as an illegal makes it here he has every right as legal citizens of this country? You are a clown, and are THE PROBLEM.

 
Sand, nowhere in that article does it state that Ortiz is from Mexico.

And it doesn't matter. It's completely irrelevant how he got here. Now that he's here, he has every right to sue, and NOT to be deported. (We shouldn't deport anyone except those who have committed felonies). If he wants to be a scumbag and sue the fire department, that's his business. I hope he loses, badly. I wish he and his attorney would have to pay a fine for suing in the first place. But let's stop bringing up his legal status.
WTF are you talking about??? So as long as an illegal makes it here he has every right as legal citizens of this country? You are a clown, and are THE PROBLEM.
Immigrants (even illegal ones) should have the right to sue an agency for being neglected without fear they'll be deported. That's a long ways from having every right as legal citizens of this country.

 
Sand, nowhere in that article does it state that Ortiz is from Mexico.

And it doesn't matter. It's completely irrelevant how he got here. Now that he's here, he has every right to sue, and NOT to be deported. (We shouldn't deport anyone except those who have committed felonies). If he wants to be a scumbag and sue the fire department, that's his business. I hope he loses, badly. I wish he and his attorney would have to pay a fine for suing in the first place. But let's stop bringing up his legal status.
WTF are you talking about??? So as long as an illegal makes it here he has every right as legal citizens of this country? You are a clown, and are THE PROBLEM.
Immigrants (even illegal ones) should have the right to sue an agency for being neglected without fear they'll be deported. That's a long ways from having every right as legal citizens of this country.
Wow, so the criminals run the prison huh? You are THE PROBLEM as well.

 
What does his immigration status have to do with anything?
It depends on your position with regard to illegal immigration. I don't think we should be obligated to provide the same level of services to people who are here illegally that we provide to those who are here legally.
Good point. They should have left him there until he was able to prove his immigration status.
Of course that could go the other way too, like say jonessed was trapped neck deep in a sewer, and the only person around was an illegal to save him.

I'd tell the illegal to not bother, since jonessed is always neck deep in a sewer here in the FFA.
You need to practice your put-downs. That is terrible.
I'm not putting you down. I'm just making the case that nobody has to save you. Illegal or not.

Well, unless they make a law that they have to, but since you say illegal's who broke a law don't deserve attention in an emergency, then it would be no problem breaking another by letting you drown.

I just used the sewer angle because your argument is neck deep in ####.

 
What does his immigration status have to do with anything?
Absolutely nothing.
Everything---you don't get the rights the American Judicial system affords if you are not here legally.Sorry with rights come responsibilities.

It very much like the people that file motions to appear by phone in civil lawsuits because they know they have bench warrants for their arrest in criminal cases and they know if they show up, they will be remanded. Guess what? Motion denied!! You don't get the benefit of suing someone if you are a fugitive and that applies to American citizens.
Exactly :
 
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