We are downsizing our long standing league from 12 to 10 owners this year due to unforeseen events. We keep 6 players and use the auction format with a $100 cap. Minimum roster of 16 players. My question is has anyone done this before, and if so, what observations can you share with me to help strategize a winning draft? drop highly paid players and get them back for cheap due to the amount of players in the draft?
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Downsizing from 12 to 10 teams, keeper, auction...anyone done this? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter digphish
- Start date
Silver & Black
Footballguy
Several years ago, my league went from 12 to 10 also for unplanned reasons. Before answering your question about strategy, let me just say you should really try to find new owners and keep the league at 12. I found 12 teams is FAR better, albeit, more difficult. With 10 teams, every team is going to have several stud players and the free agent pool will have significantly more good players and diamonds in the rough than with 12. Overall, I found 12 teams to be a far better format and much more fun than 10.
That said, if you have to stay at 10, your draft strategy should definitely change. My league is an auction/dynasty league. With 10 teams, you don't have to overspend early in the draft for star players. You also don't have to overspend on depth because there are so many good players available and 2 less teams competing for their services.
Overall, with 10 teams, you can be selective, wait for other teams to blow their cash early and still get a few studs and several quality value players and field a super team.
That said, if you have to stay at 10, your draft strategy should definitely change. My league is an auction/dynasty league. With 10 teams, you don't have to overspend early in the draft for star players. You also don't have to overspend on depth because there are so many good players available and 2 less teams competing for their services.
Overall, with 10 teams, you can be selective, wait for other teams to blow their cash early and still get a few studs and several quality value players and field a super team.
Varmint
Footballguy
Our league has never downsized but we did try to implement "Keepers" into the auction format....and it didn't go well.
The main attraction of the auction format is the fact that you can get ANY player that you want....just bid another buck.
With the implementation of "keepers" into the mix...it totally ruined the auction and it's appeal.
Just tellin' ya.
The main attraction of the auction format is the fact that you can get ANY player that you want....just bid another buck.
With the implementation of "keepers" into the mix...it totally ruined the auction and it's appeal.
Just tellin' ya.
Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
Yeah, have to agree with this.
OP, think of it this way: In a normal year in your league, most owners are going to keep their 6 best players (absent other considerations such as salary cap, etc., which you didn't specify). Obviously, talent isn't ever evenly divided among teams which means you won't be missing the top 72 guys, but even so, the "studs" in your auction draft are probably going to be the 50th-60th best players in the league.
Now, if all of a sudden two owners are out and their rosters get thrown back into the auction pool, that pool now consists of (on average) 2 of the best 12 players in the league, ~2 of the second 12 best, ~2 of the third 12 best, and so on until you get to the 50-60 range, where there will now be a (relatively) massive glut of guys. That sort of skew in the available talent has the potential to really screw up an auction, and I'd recommend that if you really can't find owners for the other 2 teams, that rosters get scrubbed and everyone goes back into the auction pool this time around.
If you can't convince the other owners of that, your auction strategy needs to be 100% "studs and duds" focused. Spend whatever it takes to get as many of the top 24-36 guys as you can, because the quality gap between them and the rest of the available names will be just so enormous. And by "whatever it takes" I mean I'd literally blow my entire auction budget; if the top 24 guys were going for $50 on average, I'd get two. If they were going for $33, I'd get three. $25 each, I'd get four. And so on.
Good luck whatever you decide.
JimmyJames
Footballguy
This exactly as Silver & Black stated. We downsized to 10 players in one league and it was never the same. Do your best to keep it at 12 ownersSilver & Black said:
Thanks for the replies guys. We are really trying for 12, but it is looking like it will be 10. I'm wondering if we can avoid some of the issues you all of mentioned if we are proactive with some rule changes before the draft. I was thinking if we increase the minimum bench from 16 to 19 and max from 18 to 21 that will help inflation, and then add one more flex position to accomodate the extra bench. Thoughts?
Coach3K
Footballguy
It's not specifically on-topic, but I did want to offer a counter view on your point. Our league transitioned about 5 years ago from a standard draft to an auction/keeper format. We had concerns about them working well together, but we found a great system that has made our league work really well.
We limit teams to 3 keepers max each year, and players can only be kept a maximum of 3 years in a row before they have to go back into the pool. I think 2 keeper years would be better (3 years of total ownership), but 3 works out OK. To address "economy" issues, keeper costs escalate by 10% yearly, rounded up.
Bought Megatron at $60 (out of $200) and want to keep him all 3 years? It'll cost you $66/73/81 for the next 3 years to hold on to him.
You still get situations where people pile up really good value for years on end by getting cheap players at auction whose eventual values far outpace their actual costs, but it adds a REALLY nice level of strategy to the auction. If you can spot talent early and get ahead of the market, it can really pay off.
Just don't swear off Keepers entirely if you enjoy the auction format...There are tweaks to make it more than viable.
Varmint
Footballguy
We tried exactly the same thing....
Limited number of keepers....contract limited to three years.....on an escalating pay scale.
Sure, it happened where a player got too expensive to keep but the franchise would just substitute a cheaper player that year and that was a player that was untouchable for everyone else.
It looked good on paper but the bottom line was that you KNEW at the beginning of the auction....just like a draft.... there were players that you had absolutely NO CHANCE of obtaining
...only it was worse.
We have a 14-team league so if I was picking 14th in a draft, there were 13 players that I KNEW that I had no chance to get.
Although I didn't know exactly who those 13 players were going to be....I could probably guess at least ten of them.
When we implemented the "3 keeper max" rule....there were up to THIRTY NINE players that I didn't have a chance to get.
Although I could keep three players myself...it simply wasn't worth the price and it totally killed the concept of the "get any player you want" auction format.
Not only that...but the increase in the "level of strategy" that you said increases is also just another level of "luck" when a backup RB that you got for $1 in year 1 gets traded to a team where he becomes a starter during the off-season and his value increases.
This wasn't strategy, it was an unforeseen circumstance that a franchise benefits from through no foresight on their behalf.
The strategy in an auction format comes from everyone bidding on a player under the same circumstances.
I highly recommend that you drop the keepers and keep the auction format pure...."if you want a player...bid another buck"
After all....that was the reason that you switched to the auction format in the first place...wasn't it?
Limited number of keepers....contract limited to three years.....on an escalating pay scale.
Sure, it happened where a player got too expensive to keep but the franchise would just substitute a cheaper player that year and that was a player that was untouchable for everyone else.
It looked good on paper but the bottom line was that you KNEW at the beginning of the auction....just like a draft.... there were players that you had absolutely NO CHANCE of obtaining
...only it was worse.
We have a 14-team league so if I was picking 14th in a draft, there were 13 players that I KNEW that I had no chance to get.
Although I didn't know exactly who those 13 players were going to be....I could probably guess at least ten of them.
When we implemented the "3 keeper max" rule....there were up to THIRTY NINE players that I didn't have a chance to get.
Although I could keep three players myself...it simply wasn't worth the price and it totally killed the concept of the "get any player you want" auction format.
Not only that...but the increase in the "level of strategy" that you said increases is also just another level of "luck" when a backup RB that you got for $1 in year 1 gets traded to a team where he becomes a starter during the off-season and his value increases.
This wasn't strategy, it was an unforeseen circumstance that a franchise benefits from through no foresight on their behalf.
The strategy in an auction format comes from everyone bidding on a player under the same circumstances.
I highly recommend that you drop the keepers and keep the auction format pure...."if you want a player...bid another buck"
After all....that was the reason that you switched to the auction format in the first place...wasn't it?
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Silver & Black
Footballguy
In my league, if you win the championship, you can keep 1 guy, the runner up can keep 2, the other playoff teams can keep 3 and non-playoff teams can keep 4. I found this system works nicely. This year is a perfect example. Both super bowl teams were stacked, and as a result, the top 3 rb's will be available in the draft. It's true, not everyone is available each year, but that's what makes it so much fun. You have to plan and strategize with what's available. Also, I found this system helps bolster late season trades. Teams that are out of it look to trade their big name players who usually have large salaries for young/cheaper players to protect for next season. Overall, I really like this system and I can't imagine doing a regular snake draft.
Also, draft day is up there with Christmas day and Thanksgiving as one of my favorite days of the year. There's just nothing like beer, food and an auction on a beautiful day. I love watching and trying to make other people over pay for players.
Good luck bro
Also, draft day is up there with Christmas day and Thanksgiving as one of my favorite days of the year. There's just nothing like beer, food and an auction on a beautiful day. I love watching and trying to make other people over pay for players.
Good luck bro
Coach3K
Footballguy
We were coming from a straight redraft/serpentine setup and had discussed both Keeper and Auction options for several years. We didn't have one specific reason we changed from our previous format. Some people didn't like the luck involved in the drafts (one guy consistently got 11th pick several years running), some wanted the keeper aspect so they could have more than 1 year of investment in certain talents, and others were drawn to the "if you want him, you can get him" aspect of the auction format. Every motivator we had for change had multiple options to address them, but we happened to choose a system that hit each of them to some degree or another.
This system has worked out well for us, and we've already gone through at least one cycle of "max contract" guys, and the influx of talent that came with those guys being available for auction again. Every year a month or 2 prior to the draft, we put the option for adjustments on the table, and nearly everyone has consistently said they enjoy this setup and wouldn't want to change anything. Sure, some luck is involved in undervalued guys, but the same is true for any other format that involves keepers. We mitigate the "dumb luck" by having minimum keeper costs of $10/15/20 each year, so that $1/waiver RB who benefits from 2 injuries in front of him doesn't completely blow up the economy. It still rewards someone who does their homework on rookies, depth charts, and contracts, to anticipate opportunities that players will have in coming years, allowing someone to take advantage of low current value that turns into big future value. You have to take the good (strategy/planning) with the bad (outright luck).
And if you really want a certain player, we do allow trades (like nearly any other league) so you can go out and "buy" someone you specifically want, as long as you are willing to move equivalent talent from your team
If our only (or even primary) motivation for including the auction system in our league was to guarantee that an individual could buy any player they wanted, then we wouldn't have considered the keeper option...since, as you clearly point out, Team 1 keeping someone clearly means Team 2 can't "buy him at whatever cost." That wasn't really an issue for us, since we had more than that motivating us to switch our system, and we settled early on a combination keeper/auction setup.
Ultimately, your league's desired outcome is really what drives how it's set up. Your league just seems to value the "want a player, bid another buck" aspect of the auction more than our 12 owners do. To each their own.
cliffhuxtible
Footballguy
I play auction with keepers, up to three years, similar to the descriptions above. I have actually found it to be ideally balanced and the best compromise between the abundance of talent in redraft leagues and the ability to hold players for longer terms.
In our league, the players that get kept are usually the best value players. Guys worth $15 that somebody signed for $3 the year before. Once more, most owners in my league tend to want around 75-80% of their budget available for the auction. Sure, we get the occasional owner spending over 50% of his budget to retain keepers, but that has never been more than 2 out of 14 teams.
In the end, this means that most of the big name studs are available every year. This makes this league fun, because strategy tends to be about figuring out which studs you think are the ones to have each year and the talent pool is full.
It's not the most serious league but everybody seems to enjoy it and to date there haven't been any complaints. The three year contract limit keeps the system in check and assures that cheap rookies who eventually became studs inevitably end up back in the pool.
In our league, the players that get kept are usually the best value players. Guys worth $15 that somebody signed for $3 the year before. Once more, most owners in my league tend to want around 75-80% of their budget available for the auction. Sure, we get the occasional owner spending over 50% of his budget to retain keepers, but that has never been more than 2 out of 14 teams.
In the end, this means that most of the big name studs are available every year. This makes this league fun, because strategy tends to be about figuring out which studs you think are the ones to have each year and the talent pool is full.
It's not the most serious league but everybody seems to enjoy it and to date there haven't been any complaints. The three year contract limit keeps the system in check and assures that cheap rookies who eventually became studs inevitably end up back in the pool.
Varmint
Footballguy
We fought this battle over many seasons.
The league was completely split.
On one side you had those who wanted a draft format with keepers.
You had those who wanted a complete "redraft" format with no keepers
You had those who would "settle" for an auction...as long as they were able to keep some players from the previous season.
You had those who wanted a pure auction....where everyone NFL player was up for grabs and you could get anyone you wanted.
It was a disaster.
Owners had to be literally dragged into the auction format because they were basically afraid of it....(they now admit it)
We could only get to the action if concessions were made that allowed them a certain number of keepers.
Believe me...I've heard every excuse about why keepers are good....especially, the "strategy" it takes to keep the right player
Unsure of their ability to survive a "pure" auction, they felt they needed the comfort of knowing that they had at least SOME good talent on their team in case they couldn't go toe to toe with other owners in a clean auction.
So, just to get the league's footing in an auction format...other owners conceded and we ended up with keepers in an auction format....go figure.
We put in all of the same things your league did thinking that it would SOMEHOW keep talent in the pool of available NFL players.
It failed MISERABLY.
Auction purists pointed out that in most seasons, 25-30 of the projected top 50 players for the upcoming season were being kept by someone and not available for bidding.
So, a few years ago (we are beginning our 16th season) as Commissioner, I simply stated that the upcoming season would be a "clean" auction....no keepers.
If you weren't happy with it....move on.
Well...nobody left.
Everyone stuck it out and now that they are comfortable with the pure auction, they admit that, at the time, they wanted keepers simply to ensure that their team wouldn't totally suck after they screwed up the auction.
Our owners now say that they would never want to go back to keepers simply because of the incredible number of NFL players that are available for them to bid on when nobody gets kept.
I am totally convinced that keepers in an auction format are simply a crutch for those who are unsure of their auction skills.
The lure of the auction is that everyone has the same information that everyone else has and you must assign your salary cap and bid on players based on the upcoming year.
Nobody is going to win the lottery because a $1 backup RB (M. Turner 2007) gets traded to another team (Atl. 2008) where he goes from 1 TD to 17 TD's.
Everyone saw it happen in the off-season and if you want him, you'll have to bid against the other owners for him.
The league was completely split.
On one side you had those who wanted a draft format with keepers.
You had those who wanted a complete "redraft" format with no keepers
You had those who would "settle" for an auction...as long as they were able to keep some players from the previous season.
You had those who wanted a pure auction....where everyone NFL player was up for grabs and you could get anyone you wanted.
It was a disaster.
Owners had to be literally dragged into the auction format because they were basically afraid of it....(they now admit it)
We could only get to the action if concessions were made that allowed them a certain number of keepers.
Believe me...I've heard every excuse about why keepers are good....especially, the "strategy" it takes to keep the right player
Unsure of their ability to survive a "pure" auction, they felt they needed the comfort of knowing that they had at least SOME good talent on their team in case they couldn't go toe to toe with other owners in a clean auction.
So, just to get the league's footing in an auction format...other owners conceded and we ended up with keepers in an auction format....go figure.
We put in all of the same things your league did thinking that it would SOMEHOW keep talent in the pool of available NFL players.
It failed MISERABLY.
Auction purists pointed out that in most seasons, 25-30 of the projected top 50 players for the upcoming season were being kept by someone and not available for bidding.
So, a few years ago (we are beginning our 16th season) as Commissioner, I simply stated that the upcoming season would be a "clean" auction....no keepers.
If you weren't happy with it....move on.
Well...nobody left.
Everyone stuck it out and now that they are comfortable with the pure auction, they admit that, at the time, they wanted keepers simply to ensure that their team wouldn't totally suck after they screwed up the auction.
Our owners now say that they would never want to go back to keepers simply because of the incredible number of NFL players that are available for them to bid on when nobody gets kept.
I am totally convinced that keepers in an auction format are simply a crutch for those who are unsure of their auction skills.
The lure of the auction is that everyone has the same information that everyone else has and you must assign your salary cap and bid on players based on the upcoming year.
Nobody is going to win the lottery because a $1 backup RB (M. Turner 2007) gets traded to another team (Atl. 2008) where he goes from 1 TD to 17 TD's.
Everyone saw it happen in the off-season and if you want him, you'll have to bid against the other owners for him.
Silver & Black
Footballguy
I gotta tell you, I would never thought I would consider changing how I run my league's auction, but this was a very interesting post and I have something to think about to be sure.
That said, the one thing that just jumps out at me is how keepers reward owners that draft or obtain players cheap and they turn out to be starts. Like when I drafted AJ Green as a rookie for $1. Or how my league's defending champ has Jimmy Graham at an ongodly low salary because he drafted him before he showed what a beast he is! It's just such a huge benefit to have guys like this, who you have for such a bargain salary and be able to go out and have money to spend big at the draft.
Also, having players go back to the pool and be protected really plays a big part in trades in the second half of the year. I love talking trade.
It just rubs against the grain to me to draft players and a have salary cap etc., just to start all over again the next year. I try to run the league and my team like an NFL team. Starting all over again, every year, is just not something I ever considered as part of the equation.
Coach3K
Footballguy
As I said...every situation is different. Your league had split feelings strongly camped on either side. Our 12 guys were all in general agreement on our setup and were willing to compromise to meet at a middle ground.
I'm sorry it didn't work out for you guys.
I don't think any of our guys would have it any other way.
Apparently, it's because all 12 of us suck and need the crutch that keepers add to our auction system.
Good luck with your format - I hope it continues to work as well for you as ours works for us.
The takeaway for other readers in this thread: Diff'rent Strokes, etc.
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