Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Phenoms going under (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JohnW1970
- Start date
Dragon1952
Footballguy
Could be that he was telling the truth about either 1) having 20-40% left to distribute or 2) filing bankruptcy
lol @ the $3564 account balance I have on phenoms. Wonder if he's just taunting us at this point.
In other more positive news, I received letters from my cc company today that read something to the effect of "your account has been credited, and should the merchant challenge your credit request, you will be notified"
So basically my CC company is on my side and the ball is in Mike's court now to prove that he provided what I paid for.
In other more positive news, I received letters from my cc company today that read something to the effect of "your account has been credited, and should the merchant challenge your credit request, you will be notified"
So basically my CC company is on my side and the ball is in Mike's court now to prove that he provided what I paid for.
cstu
Footballguy
Dragon1952
Footballguy
I have not defended him. I am trying to keep people in reality. Wrapping up the leagues and determining payouts is a required step in determining how whatever money might be remaining is divided up. If I won a league, I would be happy he is doing that. Sure you may only get 20-40 percent, but you will get something unless he did loot all the money. But assuming he is somewhat telling the truth about bankruptcy (though I doubt the details he gave are all that accurate), this is a positive sign and not one to get all pissed off about. Unless you are totally ignorant of the process, which a lot of people are. If he did not figure out payouts, the court would likely just try use entry fees to figure out shares of any money left in the bankruptcy process.JohnnyU said:
Soaring Eagle
Footballguy
He probably had to do it before 2015 for tax filing purposes for the winners should they profit more than 600
I doubt he files 1099 on winnings he did not payout. That would be horrible as it would create a taxable income for the non- recipient. That would be something to be pissed about. It only makes sense to aid the bankruptcy.
Soaring Eagle
Footballguy
I meant profit after whatever payouts he does (the 20 to 40% he was talking about)
Any payments he makes now will be scruntinized by the court to determine if he showed any favoritism. Again, assuming he actually does file bankruptcy at some point. But Mike does not seem to be keeping people informed on what is going on, which he should be.
flapgreen
Footballguy
How much is he paying you to say this?!
Dragon1952
Footballguy
Think about it a little bit before making a statement like that. What would be the purpose of him "paying" someone to say that. Would it be to buy himself more time? If he wanted more time he would have never said a thing in the first place and just disappeared.... and people would still be scratching their heads wondering why he hasn't been responding and maybe it would be a couple more weeks until anybody even started investigating. Or would it be so that people would just possibly not hate him for a little bit longer until it all came out in the wash anyway? It can only be seen as a positive, no matter how small, that the website is still up and the posting of winnings are there. It is a logical order of things assuming either the bankruptcy or the 20-40% left story is true. For someone to state that it may be a possibility that a bankruptcy story was true and get accused a being paid to say that is so incredibly ludicrous. Explain the purpose of your statement please, meaning how would it benefit Mike to pay someone to say that the bankruptcy story could be true.
Dragon1952
Footballguy
Why would balances be included? As far as deposits go it would have to be up to the courts to decide if deposits were to be included in any settlement and we aren't even close to that yet. The balances being shown are just the normal course of events of the Phenoms site. It doesn't mean that's what anybody is or isn't going to get, if anything.
Penguin
Footballguy
I don't think anyone will get anything but since Phenoms is no longer in business accurate accounting would include next year's deposits along with winnings.
Dragon1952
Footballguy
Not only is that not programmed into the software it remains to be determined if Phenoms will even be held liable for deposits.
Dragon1952
Footballguy
That's why I said "assuming either the bankruptcy or the 20-40% left story is true", "assuming" being the operative word. But the fact is, we don't know anything to be true or untrue yet except that he used a portion of the money. Maybe some, maybe all. We don't know.
Penguin
Footballguy
The league winnings weren't "programmed" into the software either, Mike manually logged into each league to determine the Champ, runner-up, 3rd place and points leader.
ETA: I still believe no one is getting anything but why do you think 2014 prizes were automated by the system? That is not a factual account.
Last edited by a moderator:
Soaring Eagle
Footballguy
My deposit for basketball was included in my balance
Well that didn't take long. After swearing off fantasy football "forever", I've already put a few bucks down on a fanduel team for the playoff games. I think I may need some professional help. Haha. And count me in on saying that the balances now being displayed on my account page is a positive thing. Anything that neatly summarizes what debits you paid in and what credits you should have gotten paid out is a good print screen to have! Not sure if it changes anything, but it's good info to have and it at least shows he hasn't completely fell off the face of the earth.
Slider
Footballguy
Uh-oh he offered me 60% to stay quiet. One of us is getting scammed. Son of a....
Last edited by a moderator:
fatness
Footballguy
Sorry to break this to you. But this a four person scam. Each one gets a 50 percent cut.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
1099 filings are on a cash basis. He won't need to file them for 2014 if he hasn't paid anyone....
Dragon1952
Footballguy
Because there are how many leagues? A couple thousand maybe? It would be moronic to not have that automated. Regardless of how it is computed, the fact remains that he hasn't been found liable for deposits.Maybe he will or maybe he won't, but do you really expect him to just add that on because he's a nice guy without knowing if he's even liable??
cstu
Footballguy
Dragon1952
Footballguy
You can laugh all you want but until a court says so, then it ain't so. Does the OP really expect him to add on money he hasn't been mandated to give back yet? Good griefcstu said:Dragon1952 said:
cstu
Footballguy
It doesn't take a court to mandate for him to know he owes money to people who paid for unprovided services.You can laugh all you want but until a court says so, then it ain't so. Does the OP really expect him to add on money he hasn't been mandated to give back yet? Good griefcstu said:Dragon1952 said:
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Does he owe money, or does his corporate entity owe the money? The veil doesn't pierce itself, it takes some action by creditors or the state.It doesn't take a court to mandate for him to know he owes money to people who paid for unprovided services.You can laugh all you want but until a court says so, then it ain't so. Does the OP really expect him to add on money he hasn't been mandated to give back yet? Good griefcstu said:Dragon1952 said:
cstu
Footballguy
http://www.rjmintz.com/misc/asset-protection-articles/piercing-the-llc-veil/Does he owe money, or does his corporate entity owe the money? The veil doesn't pierce itself, it takes some action by creditors or the state.It doesn't take a court to mandate for him to know he owes money to people who paid for unprovided services.You can laugh all you want but until a court says so, then it ain't so. Does the OP really expect him to add on money he hasn't been mandated to give back yet? Good griefcstu said:Dragon1952 said:
Dragon1952
Footballguy
Unfortunately that's not how our world works.It doesn't take a court to mandate for him to know he owes money to people who paid for unprovided services.You can laugh all you want but until a court says so, then it ain't so. Does the OP really expect him to add on money he hasn't been mandated to give back yet? Good griefcstu said:Dragon1952 said:
Pure speculation, but I am guessing his lawyer advised him not to file bankruptcy for the LLC. He is probably proceeding with league payouts to the extent that funds allow and paying himself 10 percent. He probably will not file unless forced too.
Unfortunately you can not pierce the corporate veil in small claims. You could easily get judgements against the LLC in small claims, but if it has no assets, it is kind of pointless.
Mike will probably escape this without even having to file a personnel bankruptcy, unless someone wants to spend the money to go after him. I doubt if Mike has assets to go after, so the whole point to go after him would be to force Mike into filing a personal bankruptcy.
Perhaps Utah will go after him, but that is their call.
Unfortunately you can not pierce the corporate veil in small claims. You could easily get judgements against the LLC in small claims, but if it has no assets, it is kind of pointless.
Mike will probably escape this without even having to file a personnel bankruptcy, unless someone wants to spend the money to go after him. I doubt if Mike has assets to go after, so the whole point to go after him would be to force Mike into filing a personal bankruptcy.
Perhaps Utah will go after him, but that is their call.
fatness
Footballguy
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
There's likely no reason to file a corporate bankruptcy, incur all that expense and bring a trustee into things just to liquidate an insolvent company. The most likely scenario for a corporate bankruptcy would be an involuntary proceeding, which would require at least three creditors to hire a lawyer. That can be expensive and personally disruptive to the filing creditors if he fights it. If successful, a trustee would come in, freeze the accounts and sort things out. The economics are difficult, because you need people with enough skin in the game to step up, and there's a huge risk they'd be throwing good money after bad.
Similar economic issues apply to a personal lawsuit to pierce the veil.
fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
Any lawyers or those who have dug deeper into this know if the prize money on hand was free to be used to fund operations without any tax or legal adverse affects?
Last edited by a moderator:
Dragon1952
Footballguy
Or to have him criminally charged. There is a huge constituency that wants just that.jon_mx said:
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Buddy of mine got an email from Mike. Per Mike:
1. Account balances have been updated for the purpose of conveyance to the bankruptcy attorneys who will dole out whatever is left to dole.
2. Keeper/Dynasty deposits are not included in account balances. (doesn't mention where those accounts are kept)
3. No timeline for dispersal of funds nor percentage of settlement is known at this time.
4. Mike's really sorry FWIW
I'm just passing along info here. Don't shoot the messenger.
1. Account balances have been updated for the purpose of conveyance to the bankruptcy attorneys who will dole out whatever is left to dole.
2. Keeper/Dynasty deposits are not included in account balances. (doesn't mention where those accounts are kept)
3. No timeline for dispersal of funds nor percentage of settlement is known at this time.
4. Mike's really sorry FWIW
I'm just passing along info here. Don't shoot the messenger.
thatguy
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
He can't even get this part right. I was supposed to get $970 back, yet my account balance says $624. 
Maybe he plans on paying out 64%. Can always dream.He can't even get this part right. I was supposed to get $970 back, yet my account balance says $624.
cstu
Footballguy
Jello_Biafra
Footballguy
Everyone will be receiving a nice round number as payment. 0.
Warrior
Footballguy
I'm picturing Fatness as an enraged sumo wrestler, just running around in circles biting off the heads of anyone that disagrees with him.
Seriously, man. Everyone who disagrees with you isn't necessarily defending Mike. They're more likely just defending common sense.
Seriously, man. Everyone who disagrees with you isn't necessarily defending Mike. They're more likely just defending common sense.
Last edited by a moderator:
My Phenoms account now shows both and Account Balance and Dynasty Deposits.
I also know that in a few select cases, he has worked to try to keep the MFL contract league sites intact and transferred comminioner status to longtime owners.
I choose to interpret this as a positive sign that at least some money will be paid out.
If Unlucky were just some thief who was purely scamming people, I know of no reason he would have done these things as recently as this weekend.
I also know that in a few select cases, he has worked to try to keep the MFL contract league sites intact and transferred comminioner status to longtime owners.
I choose to interpret this as a positive sign that at least some money will be paid out.
If Unlucky were just some thief who was purely scamming people, I know of no reason he would have done these things as recently as this weekend.
cstu
Footballguy
If I had scammed all of you I'd be doing the same thing. Keep people believing I'm being honest as long as possible and hope I can drag it out until that three year statute of limitations is over.
