What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Defensive Line Tiers [early camp update 8/2] (1 Viewer)

Jene Bramel

Footballguy
Defensive Line Tiers (early camp update) ~ posted 8/2

Defensive Line Tiers (post-OTA/minicamp update) ~ posted 7/5

Defensive Line Tiers (post-draft update) ~ posted 6/1

Defensive Line Tiers ~ posted 4/17

Appreciate everyone's patience this offseason. Still playing catchup.

No major modification to the tier process this year but I have made one major modification to the presentation process. The tier features will be presented in table format, which will allow me to include a one-liner for every player tiered.

I'll open a separate discussion thread for each position as I roll them out, but feel free to send me emails and tweets if you like. I'll answer in all formats as quickly as I can.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Did Derrick Morgan take a tumble?
I'm not sure his current situation is any clearer than than of Umenyiora or Peppers, but Rotoworld has him listed at linebacker so that's where I'll tier him for now. I'd probably slot him in the DL3 with matchup value tier if he stays at defensive end and the Titans are mostly 3-4 base.

 
From what you know right now, where would you put Clowney and Mack?
Always leery about slotting prospects before scheme and depth chart opportunity known. Dion Jordan is the latest cautionary tale there. I like Clowney and Mack, so both will get tier jumper grades at worst for redraft leagues if drafted into reasonable situations.

 
How about Andre Branch after his good 2nd half of season last year?
May be some leftover fussiness because I was high on him before he was drafted, but I'm not a fan of Branch's fantasy upside. He didn't play as well as his numbers suggest and the depth chart is more crowded with Clemons and Bryant on board as previously trusted Bradley players in Seattle. I wouldn't roster him until he proves last year's numbers are sustainable.

 
Jags also brought in Hood too(although I'd assume he'd be playing inside, but who knows?). Not very many reps to go around for Branch.

 
How confident are you that Casey will get a DE distinction?
90+% confident the Titans will release a depth chart with a 3-4 base. 60+% confident Casey will play end.

Greg Cosell went on a Tennessee radio station and argued that Casey would be a better fit as a penetrating nose. That's not been Horton's usual alignment, however, as he's tended to use more traditional big bodies there.

Casey is too good to make any rash roster decisions before the first Tennessee depth chart is released, but I think it's very reasonable to prepare for a reclassification here.

 
Thanks, Jene. I like the new table format. The brief one-liner makes for a nice summary/reminder of why some players are where they are or where they're headed.

 
Any LB'ers being moved to DE this year( I keep losing them to LB).
The tier list includes Mario Williams, LaMarr Woodley and Jerry Hughes. I'm not sure I see any obvious other candidates and definitely no one else I'm ready to tier right now.

 
lyon812 said:
Thanks, Jene. I like the new table format. The brief one-liner makes for a nice summary/reminder of why some players are where they are or where they're headed.
Glad you like the format. Unfortunately, it makes it difficult to edit when I...

fruity pebbles said:
No Kyle Williams with the DTs?
...miss a player that should be included in a given table.

Williams remains a top five caliber DT. Last year was a ceiling year for him, but he definitely should be rostered in all DT-specific leagues. Thanks for the note.

 
Defensive Line Tiers ~ posted 4/17

Appreciate everyone's patience this offseason. Still playing catchup.

No major modification to the tier process this year but I have made one major modification to the presentation process. The tier features will be presented in table format, which will allow me to include a one-liner for every player tiered.

I'll open a separate discussion thread for each position as I roll them out, but feel free to send me emails and tweets if you like. I'll answer in all formats as quickly as I can.
I will be taking Cameron Jordon over everyone in "elite dl1 upside" tier especially in dynasty.

 
Donnybrook said:
Defensive Line Tiers ~ posted 4/17

Appreciate everyone's patience this offseason. Still playing catchup.

No major modification to the tier process this year but I have made one major modification to the presentation process. The tier features will be presented in table format, which will allow me to include a one-liner for every player tiered.

I'll open a separate discussion thread for each position as I roll them out, but feel free to send me emails and tweets if you like. I'll answer in all formats as quickly as I can.
I will be taking Cameron Jordon over everyone in "elite dl1 upside" tier especially in dynasty.
I agree with this.

 
Jene Bramel said:
If Suggs were able to be used as a DL (which my league allows), top 5?
Yes.

That top tier is reserved for players with 50-12 upside (or better) and a floor expectation in the 40-10 range. Suggs fits there for sure.
What about Jamie Collins should he get a designation change? Any real chance of that?

 
How confident are you that Casey will get a DE distinction?
90+% confident the Titans will release a depth chart with a 3-4 base. 60+% confident Casey will play end.

Greg Cosell went on a Tennessee radio station and argued that Casey would be a better fit as a penetrating nose. That's not been Horton's usual alignment, however, as he's tended to use more traditional big bodies there.

Casey is too good to make any rash roster decisions before the first Tennessee depth chart is released, but I think it's very reasonable to prepare for a reclassification here.
Ugh. This makes me horribly sad, as I play in a DT required league and we start 3. (I would lose him to DE, where I already have "plenty".)

I do love IDP, but losing DEs to LB. (Hi Dumervil).. and possibly DT to DE. (Hi Casey.) Makes me question my loyalty to IDP intense or IDP only leagues.

Trying to think of this at a philosophical level, but it does seem like a further element of chance, that we don't really have in offensive based football assets. (Arguably Jimmy Graham WR/TE, but much more rare of an instance in terms of impact on higher ranked players.)

 
If Suggs were able to be used as a DL (which my league allows), top 5?
Yes.

That top tier is reserved for players with 50-12 upside (or better) and a floor expectation in the 40-10 range. Suggs fits there for sure.
What about Jamie Collins should he get a designation change? Any real chance of that?
Outside chance if the Patriots attack the linebacker depth chart hard during the draft, but doubtful. Collins is a better fit at outside linebacker in the current scheme and Jones/Ninkovich have been durable enough that the Patriots haven't needed a deep DE rotation recently.

 
If Suggs were able to be used as a DL (which my league allows), top 5?
Yes.

That top tier is reserved for players with 50-12 upside (or better) and a floor expectation in the 40-10 range. Suggs fits there for sure.
What about Jamie Collins should he get a designation change? Any real chance of that?
Outside chance if the Patriots attack the linebacker depth chart hard during the draft, but doubtful. Collins is a better fit at outside linebacker in the current scheme and Jones/Ninkovich have been durable enough that the Patriots haven't needed a deep DE rotation recently.
I was just excited at the most recent rotoworld blub about him:

Patriots OLB/DE Jamie Collins is expected to be a Week 1 starter in 2014.

 
If Suggs were able to be used as a DL (which my league allows), top 5?
Yes.

That top tier is reserved for players with 50-12 upside (or better) and a floor expectation in the 40-10 range. Suggs fits there for sure.
What about Jamie Collins should he get a designation change? Any real chance of that?
Outside chance if the Patriots attack the linebacker depth chart hard during the draft, but doubtful. Collins is a better fit at outside linebacker in the current scheme and Jones/Ninkovich have been durable enough that the Patriots haven't needed a deep DE rotation recently.
I was just excited at the most recent rotoworld blub about him:

Patriots OLB/DE Jamie Collins is expected to be a Week 1 starter in 2014.
That blurb is another way of saying: "We aren't really sure what Collins is and Belichick could use him anywhere. We think he'll start though." Don't misunderstand. I like Rotoworld and they are light years better than they used to be with defensive analysis, but there's still a lot of "we're not sure here, but this sounds good for now" analysis on defenders. Other than Evan Silva, I think most of their other blurb writers consider defense through the lens of offense / fantasy football.

Belichick pretty much declared that Collins would play linebacker last year when he stuck with a 4-3 front and didn't use any funky subpackages. He's using both Collins and Hightower more as swing OLBs than edge setting base players and nickel pass rushers. That could change this year, but my take on the current depth chart is that the need for Collins to develop at OLB is much higher than the need for him to learn base defensive DE duties and hybrid pass rush skills.

If the Patriots draft multiple traditional OLB talents, that could signal a change in thinking and we might see Collins in a rotation at DE. I think that's unlikely, however.

ETA: Shame on me for not going to the source first. The analysis blurb has more depth to it at Rotoworld. Though primarily statistics based, they do note that Collins' "expectation" is that he'll start with Mayo and Hightower. Agree 100%.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Anyone else think its strange the Bucs aren't picking up this option? Seems like it's a pretty safe way to guarantee them keeping a talented young player. I'm puzzled. The only thing I can think of would be the fact that he was drafted so high, so his # might be too much for a guy only picking up 13.5 sacks in two years. IMHO I think he is a talented young player whose sack numbers will only go up as he gets more experience.

Buccaneers | Not picking up Adrian Clayborn option Fri Apr 25, 02:14 AM

Updating a previous item, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers are not picking up the fifth-year option on DE Adrian Clayborn.

 
pyite76 said:
Anyone else think its strange the Bucs aren't picking up this option?
Hasn't Clayborn been hurt alot? Maybe they don't think he's going to be healthy enough to be worth his contract.

What do people think about Tyrone Crawford in Dallas? Their line has been gutted, any chance he's a sneaky option this season?

 
pyite76 said:
Anyone else think its strange the Bucs aren't picking up this option?
Hasn't Clayborn been hurt alot? Maybe they don't think he's going to be healthy enough to be worth his contract.

What do people think about Tyrone Crawford in Dallas? Their line has been gutted, any chance he's a sneaky option this season?
He started 16 as a rookie, missed year 2 with an ACL (I think), and started 16 in year 3.

 
pyite76 said:
Anyone else think its strange the Bucs aren't picking up this option? Seems like it's a pretty safe way to guarantee them keeping a talented young player. I'm puzzled. The only thing I can think of would be the fact that he was drafted so high, so his # might be too much for a guy only picking up 13.5 sacks in two years. IMHO I think he is a talented young player whose sack numbers will only go up as he gets more experience.

Buccaneers | Not picking up Adrian Clayborn option Fri Apr 25, 02:14 AM

Updating a previous item, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers are not picking up the fifth-year option on DE Adrian Clayborn.
Probably a budgetary component to it, but may also be a sign that Lovie Smith doesn't see Clayborn as a cornerstone fit in his scheme. Would be curious to know how much the Bucs would be saving if they decide he's not the answer (fifth year option number - owing him nothing) vs how much additional money they'll have to lay out if they choose to franchise tag him if he proves himself vital to the defense (franchise tag - fifth year option number).

 
Where would you slot Aaron Donald this season Jene?
Going to depend on draft slot, team fit, OTAs, but I think he'll find his way onto the redraft DT list. Dynasty owners with a DT requirement might need to start considering him in the third round. That will depend on WR fits, LB fits, etc.

 
sorry if this is off topic, but am i missing something, or are there no DB tiers yet?
Looking unlikely I'll get to this until after the draft. Over the next three weeks, I'll have pre-draft draft reviews by position, a pre-draft medical review of draft risks, post-draft reviews of drafted players and their prospective fits and upside, and the combined draft board. Next set of updated tiers at all positions will come shortly after those articles.

 
Defensive Line Tiers ~ posted 4/17

Appreciate everyone's patience this offseason. Still playing catchup.

No major modification to the tier process this year but I have made one major modification to the presentation process. The tier features will be presented in table format, which will allow me to include a one-liner for every player tiered.

I'll open a separate discussion thread for each position as I roll them out, but feel free to send me emails and tweets if you like. I'll answer in all formats as quickly as I can.
I will be taking Cameron Jordon over everyone in "elite dl1 upside" tier especially in dynasty.
So is everyone else. His value in all my dynasty drafts this offseason is beyond what he has produced which means no value. I've passed on that price in auctions every time.

 
Is J. Massaquoi (ATL) still worth stashing on my taxi squad? I've heard mixed reviews. I have the opportunity to acquire him or V. Williams (PIT LB).

 
Is J. Massaquoi (ATL) still worth stashing on my taxi squad? I've heard mixed reviews. I have the opportunity to acquire him or V. Williams (PIT LB).
Massaquoi will likely be reclassified as a LB, with the Falcons looking more like a 3-4 front. Lots of rumors about the Falcons looking at trading up for Clowney. That seems unlikely, but if that interest extends to other potential rush LBs in the draft, Massaquoi may not see enough snaps to have value at any classification.

 
Hey Jene, Cam Heyward really came on once he got the start last year. I know he has the ability, just look at his last bowl game. You seem a bit down on him and I was wondering why. You do great work!

 
Great work as always Jene.

Read today that the Bengals plan to move Carlos Dunlap to right end this season. Does that move the needle for you in terms of improving his value?

 
Hey Jene, Cam Heyward really came on once he got the start last year. I know he has the ability, just look at his last bowl game. You seem a bit down on him and I was wondering why. You do great work!
He made the matchup tier as a 5-technique so I think there's high enough ceiling to consider him rosterable. Just not sure I see too much more than the 35-5 from last year.

Any thoughts on Kroy Biermann with the scheme change in ATL?
Has yet to prove he'll put up enough tackles or sacks in any role to hold value as a linebacker, which is where I expect he'll be classified with the Falcons tipping their hand on moving to a 3-4 during free agency.

Great work as always Jene.

Read today that the Bengals plan to move Carlos Dunlap to right end this season. Does that move the needle for you in terms of improving his value?
Dunlap's value is tied to his consistency and durability. I'm not sure the move the RDE makes much difference in that regard. It may give him a few more single blocking chances per game, but I don't feel strongly that he'll make a Robert Quinn like jump.

 
follow up to Cam Heyward response Jene,

he did the

Hey Jene, Cam Heyward really came on once he got the start last year. I know he has the ability, just look at his last bowl game. You seem a bit down on him and I was wondering why. You do great work!
He made the matchup tier as a 5-technique so I think there's high enough ceiling to consider him rosterable. Just not sure I see too much more than the 35-5 from last year.
Thanks Jene, great stuff and insight as always but I'm wondering if maybe you might be sleeping on Cam (you aren't a closet Buckeye hater are you ; )

He put up 35 and 5 after starting week 8 on which gives him 7 more games to improve on those numbers. 45-8 seems like a distinct possibility i would think. Or maybe I've got on my rose colored glasses.

 
BuckeyeChaos said:
follow up to Cam Heyward response Jene,

he did the

Jene Bramel said:
Hey Jene, Cam Heyward really came on once he got the start last year. I know he has the ability, just look at his last bowl game. You seem a bit down on him and I was wondering why. You do great work!
He made the matchup tier as a 5-technique so I think there's high enough ceiling to consider him rosterable. Just not sure I see too much more than the 35-5 from last year.
Thanks Jene, great stuff and insight as always but I'm wondering if maybe you might be sleeping on Cam (you aren't a closet Buckeye hater are you ; )

He put up 35 and 5 after starting week 8 on which gives him 7 more games to improve on those numbers. 45-8 seems like a distinct possibility i would think. Or maybe I've got on my rose colored glasses.
I had forgotten that he hadn't started during the first month of the season. He still had nearly 850 snaps last year, though he was clearly more productive later. I'll go back and review some of his later games and reconsider his ranking. Thanks for the followup.

 
Updated DL tiers now live. Not much movement here as the majority of edge rushing talents in the draft will be classified as linebackers.

DL tiers

If you see a possible omission or table error, my love and appreciation in advance for noting it in this thread, by email or via Twitter. And thanks in advance for any discussion and feedback you've got for the thread.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Updated DL tiers now live. Not much movement here as the majority of edge rushing talents in the draft will be classified as linebackers.

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=14bramel_defensive_line_tiers_2

If you see a possible omission or table error, my love and appreciation in advance for noting it in this thread, by email or via Twitter. And thanks in advance for any discussion and feedback you've got for the thread.
Dr., the above link leads to the LBs.

 
Updated DL tiers now live. Not much movement here as the majority of edge rushing talents in the draft will be classified as linebackers.

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=14bramel_defensive_line_tiers_2

If you see a possible omission or table error, my love and appreciation in advance for noting it in this thread, by email or via Twitter. And thanks in advance for any discussion and feedback you've got for the thread.
Dr., the above link leads to the LBs.
In the interim if you scroll to the bottom of the LB tier article there are several links to other articles one of which is a link to the updated DL tiers which does work.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top