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QB Brian Hoyer, LV (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Dismattle
- Start date
Clearly losing my mind and lost in a time warp, thanks.
Peyton Marino
Footballguy
I will say... I'd trade Andy Dalton for him straight up.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Mr. Retukes
Footballguy
I like Hoyer but there's no way he's getting a Dalton-esque contract, especially if he can't top 18 TDs for the season.
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
Time to trade Manziel to the Jets.
Actually, if Hoyer finishes the season like he played vs Cincy, he will in fact get a Dalton type deal.
Btw, that doesn't marry the Browns to him long term, it would be a series of one year deals with about 18-20 mil guaranteed.
That's the way it's done these days.
If Hoyer lays any more Jacksonville game type eggs, that number gets reduced, but he will get some level of guaranteed money because he has proved to be somewhat competent ala Alex Smith type game manager.
Hoyer has his share of limitations, but he is QB smart, limits his wtf throws and mistakes, most of the time.
He usually doesn't try to be someone he isn't. He can work with a decent running game, he will never put up prolific passing numbers, but he can keep the team close with a chance to win.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
Well said Ojaays.
Give Brian his money, but don't trade Johnny. Keep our options open.
Give Brian his money, but don't trade Johnny. Keep our options open.
MAC_32
Footballguy
lod01
Footballguy
It would be the smart move. Get him outta there and take whatever you can get. Just call it a wash with the Richardson rip off of Indy.
One of the 3 worst WR crews in the league and they stand at the top of the division.
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Guess who just signed a long-term extension to be the starting quarterback for their team because he was coming back from an injury but was playing well and his team was winning and in first place?
Brian Hoyer?
Nope.
Carson Palmer and look what happened.
Palmer JUST INKED a contract extension.
Check out the date he signed that contract.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000424324/article/cardinals-carson-palmer-signs-3year-50m-extension
One freak'n day before he tears his ACL. The Cards were 'somewhat' protected but not for the 2015 season which was/is fully guaranteed in the contract.
I would say wait. He's not getting Andy Dalton money just because but their are reasons.
- Dalton is younger
- Dalton took his team to three consecutive playoff appearances
- Dalton has put up better numbers
- And Dalton wasn't coming off ACL surgery and was healthy
Now if the Browns do wind up eventually extending Hoyer then the obvious question about what to do with Manziel raises its ugly head and their are rumors out there.
http://www.foxsports.com/ohio/video?vid=355247171844
Brian Hoyer?
Nope.
Carson Palmer and look what happened.
Palmer JUST INKED a contract extension.
Check out the date he signed that contract.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000424324/article/cardinals-carson-palmer-signs-3year-50m-extension
Talk about timing.
One freak'n day before he tears his ACL. The Cards were 'somewhat' protected but not for the 2015 season which was/is fully guaranteed in the contract.
I would say wait. He's not getting Andy Dalton money just because but their are reasons.
- Dalton is younger
- Dalton took his team to three consecutive playoff appearances
- Dalton has put up better numbers
- And Dalton wasn't coming off ACL surgery and was healthy
Now if the Browns do wind up eventually extending Hoyer then the obvious question about what to do with Manziel raises its ugly head and their are rumors out there.
http://www.foxsports.com/ohio/video?vid=355247171844
MAC_32
Footballguy
You're under valuing a backup QB. Don't have one and the starter goes down, your season is sunk. Have one and the starter goes down, you've still got a shot.
Conversation for the offseason anyway. Hoyer's got 7+ games to show what he is and isn't. We've got a good idea, but the needle can still sway either way.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
This team is committed to the run and the defense is above average, but the fact remains the hometown boy is 9-3 as a starter. Dance with the one who brought ya.
The Dynasty
Footballguy
Hoyer ranks 18th in yards per game, 28th in completion percentage, 23rd in touchdowns, and 17th in QB rating. The only statistic he ranks in the top half of the league in is yards per attempt. Yes, the Browns are winning, but they could be winning with a host of guys under center. Does anyone believe that with those numbers, his health issues, and at 29 years old that Hoyer is going to get big money from anyone?
What is your definition of "big money"?I'm on record that Hoyer has played his way into a Dalton like deal, or something close to it , with 15-20mil guaranteed. Whatever the length, it will be a series of one yr deals and the end number will look like "big money" like Daltons did, but it really isn't crazy money.
He will have to continue to play good to get more than 2 yrs as the starter.
Hoyer is pretty well known who he is at this point. The Jacksonville game is his floor, he was horrible, but, he has been more serviceable than not.
His stat line usually never shows how he really played. Cicny was easily his best game as a Pro but his stat line was very meh.
Hoyer made zero mistakes vs Cincy, every throw was nearly perfect, the non catches were mostly great defensive plays.
His stats vs Tampa looked pretty good, but he didn't play nearly as well.
Hoyer will never be a fantasy starter, but he can win with the right Offense and Coordinator like Shanny jr.
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Winning baby. It's not like he's got great weapons. Hell, i can barely name their receivers and i play in 3 competitive fantasy football leagues. When Gordon returns, his stats will undoubtedly improve. What health issues? Does he have syphillis or something?
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LittlePhatty
Footballguy
Pettine likes Hoyer a lot. That plus winning goes a long way.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I saw a stat on FFT that I thought was pretty interesting - looking through the FF points allowed to FF defenses, (a stat FBGs does not have for some reason btw), I thought I would see the usual suspects like the Broncos and Pats, but right there at the bottom allowing the fewest FF points to opposing FF DT's was Cleveland. Cleveland has allowed fewer points to opponent FF DTs than Denver. It just seems like a testament to what a good job Hoyer has done.
MAC_32
Footballguy
If you just watch the box score you're not appreciating his game.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Well yeah and he's also coming off a game where he set the all-time club record for incompletions with 30 incompletions. Hoyer hasn't even played one single season and he has TWO games in the Browns all-time list for games with most incompletions because he will throw the ball away instead of throw a pick or take a sack.
When asked about the record Hoyer said, "I don't want to put that (sack) on my offensive linemen... ... a throwaway I don't see as a negative play... ...no game was ever lost on a throwaway."
It works because he rarely gets sacked and as you noted he has the Browns ranked last in giving defensive points away but their are issues with his arm strength and inaccuracy as well.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2272604-breaking-down-brian-hoyers-recent-struggles-within-the-browns-offense
Go to the link for a series of photos that show how Brian some wide open receivers while under no pressure.
Their isn't any sugar coating it. Those were all on Brian.
I love Hoyer due to his, professionalism, preparedness, leadership, calm under pressure both on and off the field, and yes how well he takes care of the ball but he has to make those open throws.
The great thing about having Josh Gordon back is that Hoyer's lack of arm strength will be hidden because last year the majority of Gordon's long TD passes were not bombs but were short slants where he simply ran away from the defense.
One of Hoyer's strengths as a passer are his anticipatory throws where he hits a receiver in stride and that fits perfectly with Gordon.
My main concern with Johnny Manziel is his LACK of anticipatory throwing skill. I mean utter lack of that crucial skill. Also Johnny Football didn't display the greatest arm strength IMHO and he looked bad in preseason when attempting deep passes so if we do find ourselves out of the playoff picture then I want to get a look at Johnny as the starting QB to see if the kid has made any progress because, quite frankly, the main reason I didn't want to draft a QB in the first round this past daft was I didn't want to get strapped with a guy who can't make long throws and isn't the long term answer and the only way to find out is to play em and see what we have.
I think we know what we have in Hoyer. He's good nuff to win and 'possibly' make he post season but planetary bodies would have to align to advance in the post season with Hoyer. Good nuff won't cut it going up against the NFL's best QBs in the post season.
MAC_32
Footballguy
i think Hoyer is a better quarterback than Stafford, so however crazy you are I'm worse.
Futz
Footballguy
I think Hoyer has a chance to be better long term. I'm not sure he is now. A big reason for Stafford's failures this year is a very shaky offensive line. 31 sacks to Hoyer's 15. People keep wanting to blindly start players like Stafford based on preseason expectations and the weapons that surround him. He's just not very good at the moment.
Hoyer is a very deep sleeper this week and I'm going to roll with him. At 7-4, I probably shouldn't take unnecessary risks like this but you don't win playing it safe.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Hoyer's low sack total is a function of his quick decision making and throwing the ball away instead of taking the sack.Stafford is strictly a product of Calvin.
Futz
Footballguy
I'm not trying to hijack this into a Hoyer vs. Stafford but to say Stafford is strictly a product of Calvin is bit off the mark. You don't throw for 40+ TDs and 5,000 yards if you are the product of a singular player. Matt's problem is that he's extremely streaky and wildly inconsistent with accuracy. Hoyer's 55% this year is nothing to brag about. That places him dead last. I will concede that having Gordon back in the mix is bound to increase that though.
mnmplayer
Footballguy
hes a gamer.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I watched a good bit of the game today and I have to say you really nailed it. Gordon was sooo wide open and Hoyer was just plain missing him (really frustrating) and yet they still connected for an excellent day. Any thoughts on whether the picks were the result of a change in mindset in some way?
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amnesiac
beer is good
welcome aboard.
mnmplayer
Footballguy
Gamer. When the chips are down I want this guy in a close game. Hate to say it but a lot of other more talented QBs are not gamers. I wont start a flame war by naming them but chances are you know who they are.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Hoyer had been incredibly safe with his throws up to yesterday, throwing it away instead of taking sacks or picks, the only new thing added to the mix was Josh Gordon and JG had never played in this system before and he sat out the first ten games.
I saw the 'bitter Peyton Manning face' after one of the picks from Hoyer where he obviously was NOT happy with the receiver and I know that on many of the deep balls that Brian threw in the direction of Gordon that JG was looking over the wrong shoulder. That could be on Brian but it could also be on JG. We dunno but Brian had only had one other 3-pick game in his career, coincidentally last year when Josh Gordon game back after being suspended and where he got targeted heavily just like yesterday.
Josh and Hoyer were not on the same page and it stands to reason that Gordon has some rust to kick off and he may need a few weeks to master his routes/chemistry with Hoyer.
Basically I am not going to lay all of the picks at the feet of Hoyer, lets see how it plays out over the next few games.
steelers1080
Footballguy
The Browns are going to let Hoyer walk and sign RG3 in the offseason to run a 2-QB offense under Pettine. Because, when in recent memory did they do something smart when it came to QB decisions...
MAC_32
Footballguy
I definitely think Gordon shares some blame on the picks on targets to him. How much? Don't know, we're not sure what the expectations are on those plays. They both looked like inaccurate passes, but Gordon compounded the problem by turning the wrong direction.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
There's a fine line line between confident and delusional.
