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Should we sell Israel to the Arabs? (1 Viewer)

Sinn Fein

Footballguy
Not really ours to sell, but I am sure we could make it happen.

Why don't we simply sell Israel to the surrounding countries, and just relocate all Israelis to New Mexico/Arizona/Nevada? We could carve out some land, and create a 51st state if necessary.

Seems like Israelis would be a lot happier if they did not have to worry about arab terrorists shooting rockets into their land - they would be safer here, could turn some rather mundane property in the US into something viable/more productive.

Arabs could be left to their own devices in the middle east - we would not need to intercede - they could kill each other to their hearts content. No mortal enemies on their doorstep to get them all riled up.

I don't see any downside here - all upside for everyone imo.

 
Not sure the Israeli's would be on board with that...their homeland/holy land etc.
Pretty sure they are not supposed to get attached to material things imo...its just land. People have been migrating since Cain and Abel moved out - I am sure God will still find them at the appointed time.

 
Sure its a crackpot idea - but thats only because it makes sense.

Its silly to be tied to the land of your ancestors - particularly when the neighborhood has gone to ####.

In the long-term, everyone is happier if that land is inhabited by someone other than Israel. And Israelis are practically american as it is, so they would be able to assimilate into our desert culture just fine.

 
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Interesting perspective from a guy whose user name is SInn Fein (we ourselves).

So basically take a people's sovereignty, rule over them for their own good, and it all will work out?

Not sure Gerry Adams would be on board.

 
Interesting perspective from a guy whose user name is SInn Fein (we ourselves).

So basically take a people's sovereignty, rule over them for their own good, and it all will work out?

Not sure Gerry Adams would be on board.
Even Gerry Adams had to change tactics, because waging a war in today's world is not a very popular idea...and honestly, if we made Israel a state, it wouldn't be much different than the sovereignty they enjoy now.

Biggest difference is we would make the world a safer place - or at least America (and Israelis). And, who does not want that?

I mean Israel can continue to fight the good fight - but that is a never ending battle. Seems pointless.

 
Interesting perspective from a guy whose user name is SInn Fein (we ourselves).

So basically take a people's sovereignty, rule over them for their own good, and it all will work out?

Not sure Gerry Adams would be on board.
Just give them the Texas panhandle. Call it Israel 2.0

They are a sovereign nation. It will have the added benefit of pissing off/making Texas jealous so they too become sovereign.

 
They've already taken over a good number of neighborhoods in LA. :shrug:
Israelis?
Yes. I think half of Melrose businesses must be Israeli owned. And by half, I mean 70%
yeah I've noticed this. They're snobs too. Look down on American Jews.
Weird that they'd make their way to L.A. Wonder why

I hesitate to stereotype but I've gotten a similar vibe during multiple trips to Israel.

 
Sure its a crackpot idea - but thats only because it makes sense.

Its silly to be tied to the land of your ancestors - particularly when the neighborhood has gone to ####.

In the long-term, everyone is happier if that land is inhabited by someone other than Israel. And Israelis are practically american as it is, so they would be able to assimilate into our desert culture just fine.
You know about the Ugandan proposal from back before the State of Israel was formed? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Scheme

Always seemed like a good idea to me but nobody went for it. I don't think it could really work in the United States.

 
Interesting perspective from a guy whose user name is SInn Fein (we ourselves).

So basically take a people's sovereignty, rule over them for their own good, and it all will work out?

Not sure Gerry Adams would be on board.
Even Gerry Adams had to change tactics, because waging a war in today's world is not a very popular idea...and honestly, if we made Israel a state, it wouldn't be much different than the sovereignty they enjoy now.

Biggest difference is we would make the world a safer place - or at least America (and Israelis). And, who does not want that?

I mean Israel can continue to fight the good fight - but that is a never ending battle. Seems pointless.
The Troubles, for the most part, stopped when the IRA laid down their arms and sought a peaceful solution. They did not get everything they wanted but they realized the cost of absolute principles was too high and as a people decided to take a more diplomatic route. Things continue to get better. Northern Ireland is not "free" but half the people that live there are happy that it isn't and they all seem to have found common ground this last decade and a half. At least enough to stop killing kids. I'm sure the hard liners are still very angry that their homeland is still not free but the violence has stopped and perhaps in time, through the political system, they'll get their chance. Just like Scotland is going to have this week.

If tomorrow Israel said "we have had enough of the violence, no matter what, we're going to lay down our weapons and fire no more bullets" then the next day they would be annihilated. Their enemies avowed goal is the complete destruction of their country. They've tried cease fires, they've traded land for peace multiple times, they've begged for peace. The Palestinians and other anti-Zionist (to be kind) countries around them have chosen war and violence over compromise. However, if the arms were put down in Gaza there would be peace. Israel would be happy to start down the non-violent diplomatic path and no more kids would die. Would the Palestinians get everything they want? No. But there would be at least a chance for compromise and diplomacy and future satisfaction as a well governed and peaceful people made their case to the rest of the civilized world.

When the IRA stopped fighting Britain didn't give them back Northern Ireland but they began the process of representation and civility.

If the Palestinians stopped fighting then Israel would do the same.

If Israel stops fighting, bombs are dropped, teenagers are captured and tortured, and the violence continues.

This isn't conjecture, it's a fact because we've seen it happen over and over and over again.

You can argue that Israel's response to aggression is disproportionate. I would argue that the entire concept is ridiculous and I doubt any of us would worry about a proportionate response if our own children were in danger. But that's a separate issue. That is once the bombs start falling and the war begins. I'm saying it's all unnecessary and could end tomorrow if the Palestinians truly wanted peace. Or, even more importantly, if the surrounding countries who support them really wanted peace.

 
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Interesting perspective from a guy whose user name is SInn Fein (we ourselves).

So basically take a people's sovereignty, rule over them for their own good, and it all will work out?

Not sure Gerry Adams would be on board.
Even Gerry Adams had to change tactics, because waging a war in today's world is not a very popular idea...and honestly, if we made Israel a state, it wouldn't be much different than the sovereignty they enjoy now.

Biggest difference is we would make the world a safer place - or at least America (and Israelis). And, who does not want that?

I mean Israel can continue to fight the good fight - but that is a never ending battle. Seems pointless.
The Troubles, for the most part, stopped when the NRA laid down their arms and sought a peaceful solution. They did not get everything they wanted but they realized the cost of absolute principles was too high and as a people decided to take a more diplomatic route. Things continue to get better. Northern Ireland is not "free" but half the people that live there are happy that it isn't and they all seem to have found common ground this last decade and a half. At least enough to stop killing kids. I'm sure the hard liners are still very angry that their homeland is still not free but the violence has stopped and perhaps in time, through the political system, they'll get their chance. Just like Scotland is going to have this week.

If tomorrow Israel said "we have had enough of the violence, no matter what, we're going to lay down our weapons and fire no more bullets" then the next day they would be annihilated. Their enemies avowed goal is the complete destruction of their country. They've tried cease fires, they've traded land for peace multiple times, they've begged for peace. The Palestinians and other anti-Zionist (to be kind) countries around them have chosen war and violence over compromise. However, if the arms were put down in Gaza there would be peace. Israel would be happy to start down the non-violent diplomatic path and no more kids would die. Would the Palestinians get everything they want? No. But there would be at least a chance for compromise and diplomacy and future satisfaction as a well governed and peaceful people made their case to the rest of the civilized world.

When the NRA stopped fighting Britain didn't give them back Northern Ireland but they began the process of representation and civility.

If the Palestinians stopped fighting then Israel would do the same.

If Israel stops fighting, bombs are dropped, teenagers are captured and tortured, and the violence continues.

This isn't conjecture, it's a fact because we've seen it happen over and over and over again.

You can argue that Israel response to aggression is disproportionate. I would argue that the entire concept is ridiculous and I doubt any of us would worry about a proportionate response if our own children were in danger. But that's a separate issue. That is once the bombs start falling and the war begins. I'm saying it's all unnecessary and could end tomorrow if the Palestinians truly wanted peace. Or, even more importantly, if the surrounding countries who support them really wanted peace.
Well, as you get to later, the analogy is not with the IRA and Isreal, but rather with the IRA and the Palestinians.

But, my point is more direct - Israel is never going to be "free" "safe" or "secure" where they are - at least not in the next several lifetimes. So the practical question becomes - what should they do. Certainly they can stay and fight - and I have always advocated that is their right to do so. But at some point, much like Gerry Adams, you have to realize you are fighting a fight you cannot win - no matter how "right" or "just" your cause.

So, why continue to spend good resource after bad - to fight a battle you can't win?

 
Not sure the Israeli's would be on board with that...their homeland/holy land etc.
Pretty sure they are not supposed to get attached to material things imo...its just land. People have been migrating since Cain and Abel moved out - I am sure God will still find them at the appointed time.
I suppose you're right.Can we give them Texas?
Really? The Holocaust wasn't enough?
Oh, screw you guys!
 
You're correct that the analogy is between the IRA and the Palestinians. It took a long time, but the IRA finally realized that the Protestants were never going to leave Ulster, and that Northern Ireland was never going to become part of Eire. Will the Palestinians ever realize that the Jews are never leaving Israel?

 
You're correct that the analogy is between the IRA and the Palestinians. It took a long time, but the IRA finally realized that the Protestants were never going to leave Ulster, and that Northern Ireland was never going to become part of Eire. Will the Palestinians ever realize that the Jews are never leaving Israel?

 
I think with the IRA the people finally had enough. How long can a people go without a hope of a future for their kids, with constant blood running through the streets. The IRA didn't stop because Britain made them or Britain took it easy on them or offered anything significantly more than they had in the past. They stopped because they eventually wanted a future and peace and wanted their kids to be able to go to a playground without worrying for their lives. It was a change within and the will of the people forced the IRA's hand, not their enemy.

The same thing has to happen from the Palestinian side. Eventually, they need to want peace more than they want a return to the '67 borders and the destruction of a Jewish state. Right now the majority of people believe that a destruction of the Jews and conquering of Israel is their best chance for that peace. Like in Ireland, you need to hope that eventually enough people have lost their lives and they've lost enough of their culture and civilization to see a path to that peace through diplomacy at the cost of their ideal world.

I think the main difference is that the Troubles were not really a religious war, although they were usually framed that way. It was more about national sovereignty and ethnicity.

The Palestinian conflict is more religious in nature and fueled by a religious moral absolute that is harder to overcome. Northern Ireland also wasn't surrounded by a half dozen nations who wanted to destroy England and who loved having a proxy of suffering pawns to manipulate towards that end.

 
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The Arabs would haggle so hard over Israel's sale price that I'd request a spit guard before negotiations started.

 
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Not sure the Israeli's would be on board with that...their homeland/holy land etc.
It's a great idea, we stick them in the desert, maybe do a land swap with Mexico (give them some of Texas) and add some of Baja to 'new isreal' so they have beachfront. This holy land part is the real sticking point.

 
OK. I just got of our daily secret meeting. After discussing which media outlets didn't follow our instructions carefully enough this week, setting the interest rate, and determining who will be the next senator from Louisiana, Sinn Fein's proposal was put on the table. There was serious objection that nobody wanted "those people" here (Israeli Jews). I'm afraid it was voted down. We can always try again a few months.

 

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